[PGT] Colorado Avalanche at Vancouver Canucks | Jan. 20, 2023

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, Googlie said:

The (informed?) speculation is that Tocchet would bring his own guys ...

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/tocchet-close-signing-canucks-new-assistant-coaches

 

Also, Dahliwall has floated Recchi's name as another that might come on Tocchet's coattails

[Goal:thecup]

2 hours ago, RWJC said:

That “rot” gave you and your precious JTM an extension and brought in more stronger pieces than weaker. Kuz, Mik, Bear have all been good additions, no? 
Stillman can be argued as a bit of a dud, but in terms of what’s been added for personnel, do you not believe there are some good moves?

Is the Kuzmenko signing “rot” to you? 
is that not the best asset we’ve obtained for free in years?!? 
 

Try balancing out your vitriol with some facts when you accuse others of “spewing”. You might see that some very solid hockey moves have already been made in spite of what’s going on. 
 

Of course I like the work that has been accomplished, you know I thought the Miller signing was good, I like all the others you mentioned, even Stillman is ok, and I like/love Lekkerimäki too.

It is the 'in spite of what is going on' part where we part.

I am not willing to overlook JR's treatment of BB and what seems to be his intention to hire Tocchett, while Bruce is still behind the bench.

 

I also apologize for spewing myself and all other spewing-type typing; my only excuse is misdirecting my strong feelings (and I did give myself a timeout..)

I felt that you kept defending JR for his trades and stuff and putting out predictions of the good that might come of a complete overhaul, while it is evident to most that JR is very wrong in this management style, and has truly hurt people, and I think it should stop.

 

[Goalie Interference]

14 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

Missing the <Loui watches in wonder> emoji for posts like this. 

 

I watched that video 3 times ...

[RWJC]

23 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I've read all your posts. There's always a theme with them. Excuses for JR, every single time.

 

You always bring up JR's accolades or you talk about how players should be blamed, except JR has had a hand in constructing this roster. Now you've shifted back to ownership.

 

While it may be hard to blame people lower on the heirachy, JR is very clearly second in command. Aquilini very clearly will not have any expertise with the day to day stuff (supposedly, that was being taken care of by Allvin), nor the Canucks staff (JR)

 

Every single time, it's either the players or ownership, but never a shred of criticism for JR. It's almost like you are JR's lawyer or that he's someone that you personally know. There's gotta be some conflict of interest behind your posts.

i objectively look at the intention and history of this club from the recent past regime to how it could be utilized effectively under this new one, given we know ownership was playoff focused the entire time. I see how there was an attempt to capitalize on it, and how the expectation or preconceived notion of how this club was going to move forward had a paradigm kick in the ass with the Bruce bump. That changes perspective even if you already had the intention of making changes, you still have to play it out. And now they have. They reinvested, it didn’t work. 
 

I have been quite vocal about not extending JTM or BB6. When they were I was disappointed but also accepted why it was done. I make no excuses for JR at all. I’ve been very critical of him elsewhere. 

 

In other threads I’m very vocal about what I believe are mgmt’s mismanagement thus far. I’m just focusing on an alternate view of mine in this thread because I’m a little shocked that people expected this to go down smoothly. Like JTM slamming his stick on the goalie net, there is major pent up frustration within this club. Whether it implodes or explodes or both at the same time, this was coming. Even in the form that it is. 

my timeline for assessing this mgmt ends come pre-season. I don’t trust them yet. I think there’s more positive moves than negative so far and I’m very happy we haven’t taken on any more dead money yet for buyouts, although that could be coming. But I also think what is happening needs to happen and I’m really sad that Bruce is a casualty in that. It feels unfair, but players  showed they could play for him once. Just wish we had a team full of Schenn’s heart and soul…maybe that’s what’s coming next. 
too early to tell what will transpire regardless still. 
 

Edited January 21, 2023 by RWJC

[RUPERTKBD]

Not going to read all the comments in this PGT, (I rarely do after a loss) I just want to say that if you were at the game last night and were part of the tribute to Bruce Boudreau, my hat is off to you.

 

There have been several times in the past that made me somewhat embarrassed to be a Canuck fan, (2 riots, hoping for losses so AV would get fired, calling the Sedins "sisters", etc....) but listening to "Bruce! There it is!" in the midst of a game we were trailing by two goals, I felt nothing but pride.

 

You could see that BB really appreciated the gesture....as did I....

[RUPERTKBD]

7 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I don't know Heffy....if we hired Recchi, we could let the team doctor go and spend that money elsewhere.....

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Goalie Interference said:

Missing the <Loui watches in wonder> emoji for posts like this. 

 

I watched that video 3 times ...

I'm not sorry for getting stuck in your head 

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I don't know Heffy....if we hired Recchi, we could let the team doctor go and spend that money elsewhere.....

We'd have a president, head coach, and assistant all with severe character issues.  I'll probably stick around off-topic for the Ukraine thread, but I can't support a franchise that employs these scumbags.

[RWJC]

11 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Of course I like the work that has been accomplished, you know I thought the Miller signing was good, I like all the others you mentioned, even Stillman is ok, and I like/love Lekkerimäki too.

It is the 'in spite of what is going on' part where we part.

I am not willing to overlook JR's treatment of BB and what seems to be his intention to hire Tocchett, while Bruce is still behind the bench.

 

I also apologize for spewing myself and all other spewing-type typing; my only excuse is misdirecting my strong feelings (and I did give myself a timeout..)

I felt that you kept defending JR for his trades and stuff and putting out predictions of the good that might come of a complete overhaul, while it is evident to most that JR is very wrong in this management style, and has truly hurt people, and I think it should stop.

 

No worries at all. Thank you.
i hear what you’re saying and i totally agree. It seems and feels classless. 
the reality is it’s just the business side operating without emotion.
Shitty thing for fans to endure or understand when emotion is what drives them.

[RWJC]

11 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I don't know Heffy....if we hired Recchi, we could let the team doctor go and spend that money elsewhere.....

Very good!

[RWJC]

46 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I think the "toxic to young players" argument was extremely overblown. I'm guessing that Miller has the ability to reflect on his own actions, even if he doesn't admit it in the media. He's probably a very likeable guy off the ice, but is "Mr. Serious" once he's on it.

 

He's not a bad player by any means, but he's not the type of player we need right now. The fact that ownership and management locked him up before ownership accepting that we needed major surgery is hilarious.

Made plausible edits 

[Dazzle]

51 minutes ago, RWJC said:

i objectively look at the intention and history of this club from the recent past regime to how it could be utilized effectively under this new one, given we know ownership was playoff focused the entire time. I see how there was an attempt to capitalize on it, and how the expectation or preconceived notion of how this club was going to move forward had a paradigm kick in the ass with the Bruce bump. That changes perspective even if you already had the intention of making changes, you still have to play it out. And now they have. They reinvested, it didn’t work. 
 

I have been quite vocal about not extending JTM or BB6. When they were I was disappointed but also accepted why it was done. I make no excuses for JR at all. I’ve been very critical of him elsewhere. 

 

In other threads I’m very vocal about what I believe are mgmt’s mismanagement thus far. I’m just focusing on an alternate view of mine in this thread because I’m a little shocked that people expected this to go down smoothly. Like JTM slamming his stick on the goalie net, there is major pent up frustration within this club. Whether it implodes or explodes or both at the same time, this was coming. Even in the form that it is. 

my timeline for assessing this mgmt ends come pre-season. I don’t trust them yet. I think there’s more positive moves than negative so far and I’m very happy we haven’t taken on any more dead money yet for buyouts, although that could be coming. But I also think what is happening needs to happen and I’m really sad that Bruce is a casualty in that. It feels unfair, but players  showed they could play for him once. Just wish we had a team full of Schenn’s heart and soul…maybe that’s what’s coming next. 
too early to tell what will transpire regardless still. 
 

I applaud your post that addresses JR's actions, rather than diverting the discussion elsewhere about the players and ownership. JR is high enough on the heirarchy that he deserves commentary on him, whether that is good or bad.

 

This timeline business is nonsensical because he HAS been given time to assess. He's had at least 1.5 years to make these assessments. It started with the time leading up:

 

Trade deadline - JR and company stood pat / team was neither good nor bad.

 

Free agency - signed a bunch of UFAs, which were mostly good moves.

 

The NHL draft (traded a 2nd rounder for Dickinson's cap)

 

Those are three distinct periods where management had time to make the assessments. It SHOULD NOT have been a surprise to management that the team needed major surgery. However, just last year, he suggested that the Canucks were not that far off from the playoffs:

 

 

All of a sudden, we hear him talk about being "disappointed in himself" and how we needed "major surgery". It seemed like they had never made plans for failing, which is a major red flag. It sounded like they were fooled by their own quotes.

 

So they know about cap space, so what do they do? They went through UFA and signed a couple of free agents (nothing wrong with these signings, especially if they were confident with the above quote)

 

They re-signed Miller / left no money for Horvat

 

Traded a 2nd rounder to clear space - i guess he calls this "creative" use of the cap

 

Under JR, we actually spent more on cap than we did removing it. Again, which is fine if we were a playoff team.

 

But we're not. We have a terrible start to the season and that's where we'll stop here for this timeline. The results TODAY are the consequences of management didn't do right, despite wanting "more voices", etc. His staff that he handpicked were brand new. He definitely had the power to make those changes.

 

One side note: JR has been consistent with the way he has hired staff. He has only hired people that he has worked with, and Allvin is no exception. Despite the diversity of voices, we only see JR talking now, and Allvin occasionally. JR did mention that his intention was to provide advice.

 

Seems like he's a GM more than anything else though.

 

That's a whole lot of mistakes in this short period of time, especially for a "GM" that has as much experience that you talked about in an earlier post. Somehow he surrounded himself with people who gave him bad advice, and we haven't even talked about how Boudreau was handled yet. I won't drill on that topic though.

 

Rutherford has been a lot more vocal in the media, which people confuse as being "transparent". At the same time, his ongoing negotiations with Horvat have been nothing but a disaster. It served as a distraction to the team.

 

And as mentioned before, all we hear IS Rutherford. Therefore all the sweeping changes that Rutherford had mentioned in earlier sound bites have not been true.

There is more than enough time to criticize JR, given his wealth of experience and the large number of mistakes he's made. There is no need to wait till next preseason. That is far too generous for time.

 

I'll leave this assessment by JR from much earlier that will make you realize just how poor of a job he's done in addressing these quotes. This is not on ownership, at least not with the hockey decisions. This is ALL on JR.

 

Do you notice that the concept of retool is in this quote? "I prefer that we're gaining some age on it..."

Edited January 21, 2023 by Dazzle

[RWJC]

43 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I applaud your post that addresses JR's actions, rather than diverting the discussion elsewhere about the players and ownership. JR is high enough on the heirarchy that he deserves commentary on him, whether that is good or bad.

 

This timeline business is nonsensical because he HAS been given time to assess. He's had at least 1.5 years to make these assessments. It started with the time leading up:

 

Trade deadline - JR and company stood pat / team was neither good nor bad.

 

Free agency - signed a bunch of UFAs, which were mostly good moves.

 

The NHL draft (traded a 2nd rounder for Dickinson's cap)

 

Those are three distinct periods where management had time to make the assessments. It SHOULD NOT have been a surprise to management that the team needed major surgery. However, just last year, he suggested that the Canucks were not that far off from the playoffs:

 

 

All of a sudden, we hear him talk about being "disappointed in himself" and how we needed "major surgery". It seemed like they had never made plans for failing, which is a major red flag. It sounded like they were fooled by their own quotes.

 

So they know about cap space, so what do they do? They went through UFA and signed a couple of free agents (nothing wrong with these signings, especially if they were confident with the above quote)

 

They re-signed Miller / left no money for Horvat

 

Traded a 2nd rounder to clear space - i guess he calls this "creative" use of the cap

 

Under JR, we actually spent more on cap than we did removing it. Again, which is fine if we were a playoff team.

 

But we're not. We have a terrible start to the season and that's where we'll stop here for this timeline. The results TODAY are the consequences of management didn't do right, despite wanting "more voices", etc. His staff that he handpicked were brand new. He definitely had the power to make those changes.

 

One side note: JR has been consistent with the way he has hired staff. He has only hired people that he has worked with, and Allvin is no exception. Despite the diversity of voices, we only see JR talking now, and Allvin occasionally. JR did mention that his intention was to provide advice.

 

Seems like he's a GM more than anything else though.

 

That's a whole lot of mistakes in this short period of time, especially for a "GM" that has as much experience that you talked about in an earlier post. Somehow he surrounded himself with people who gave him bad advice, and we haven't even talked about how Boudreau was handled yet. I won't drill on that topic though.

 

Rutherford has been a lot more vocal in the media, which people confuse as being "transparent". At the same time, his ongoing negotiations with Horvat have been nothing but a disaster. It served as a distraction to the team.

 

And as mentioned before, all we hear IS Rutherford. Therefore all the sweeping changes that Rutherford had mentioned in earlier sound bites have not been true.

There is more than enough time to criticize JR, given his wealth of experience and the large number of mistakes he's made. There is no need to wait till next preseason. That is far too generous for time.

 

I'll leave this assessment by JR from much earlier that will make you realize just how poor of a job he's done in addressing these quotes. This is not on ownership, at least not with the hockey decisions. This is ALL on JR.

 

Do you notice that the concept of retool is in this quote? "I prefer that we're gaining some age on it..."

I understand your perspective. I agree with points. Also can see it quite differently from other angles. In all honesty I was not a fan of JRs hiring immediately. I had to stew on it and when I did, I realized what it could mean for this club. Changes, and bad ones.

Maybe that’s the direction we’re headed, but again, I look at who hired him, especially based on his entire reputation, and for what reasons they did it. That’s what I explore and leave a bit open because its truly a grey area of the sport/biz we aren’t privy to but sets the course for everything below it. 
 

Just hoping like hell it works out 

[Goal:thecup]

2 hours ago, RWJC said:

No worries at all. Thank you.
i hear what you’re saying and i totally agree. It seems and feels classless. 
the reality is it’s just the business side operating without emotion.
Shitty thing for fans to endure or understand when emotion is what drives them.

Nice as this is, thank you, but no, it isn't just business, it is old man ego nonsense.

e.g. when John Garrett and JR were together on TV, JR had to one-up him and put him down. 

 

He had to get the better of Bruce Boudreau (because people like Bruce?) and he wasted little time putting him on the rotisserie and spinning it around and around and under the bus, and around some more, and add some 'assistant coaches' and spin him around some more.

 

When you try and put people down, you lose, and boy has JR lost credibility on this one.

I haven't watched TV since last night because I don't watch until the puck drop is on the pvr.

But I'll bet they're having a field day, as they say.

Take care RWJC, I know you mean well, and are being positive, but it just doesn't wash with me.

 

For those of you that said it reminds you of Mess/Keynan time, I empathize.

I tried to see the positive, like, "we've got a powerforward SC champ etc" but my heart wasn't in it.

And then Keynan, and Linden bowing out, and this shit these days drags that stuff up.

The 70s are a bit foggy for my memory but the Nux sucked then too.

But I'm still shak'n my head at POHO Rutherford.