Should they just sit Bo Horvat until they trade him?

[24K PureCool]

If I were Bo I just won't report for the next few days for a variety of reasons.

Edited January 23, 2023 by 24K PureCool

[aznmonk]

13 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Is there any reason to not sit Bo Horvat? I think it's pretty stupid to risk him potentially getting hurt by playing him and for what? It follows suit with what the management has done so far but why aren't they?

Trade him and boeser to Edmonton for McDavid!

[Rush17]

[GB5]

If there are decent offers on the table I would prefer to see them move Bo ASAP.

 

I fear that with a more defensive minded coach his production could falter and will lose value so capitalize now.

 

Mind you, I know that common sense to logical problems is too much to ask from Alvin and company

[Googlie]

Interesting discussion by the Emerald City guys. -  jump right to the 10 min 30 second mark .....

 

 

[ToTellTheTruth]

I thought this new management group said at sometime said they use stats.

 

I wonder because there is a very good website that has stats that is easy to find and use.

 

They signed Miller for that elephant contract and evidently thought they didn't have to pay Horvat as much.

 

Here is a comparison of the two careers;

 

From Hockey reference;

 

Regular Season

 

• Export Data
• Glossary

							Scoring					Goals							Per Game				Point Shares			Adjusted
Player	Tm	Pos	From	To	Active	GP	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	EV	PP	SH	GW	S	S%	TOI	G	A	PTS	S	OPS	DPS	PS	G	A	PTS
Bo Horvat	VAN	C	2014	2023	9	618	200	215	415	-67	200	123	67	10	25	1429	14.0	11444	0.32	0.35	0.67	2.31	31.8	10.9	42.7	242	250	492
J.T. Miller	TOT	LW/C	2012	2023	11	683	187	308	495	26	357	133	50	4	37	1296	14.4	11640	0.27	0.45	0.72	1.90	38.2	13.1	51.3	220	354	574

 

It seems to me that Horvat not only paralleled Miller and the mostly played on better teams, but Horvat should have been seen as better.

 

Still Horvat should be seen as worth more.

 

Bet they don't do anything and wait until the draft because they want to give The Bookie, their friend the best team possible and then use the negative press, they think it would be negative for the player, as leverage to get him to sign at the last minute so there isn't a Gaudreau or Tkachuk fan response.

 

I hope they looked at the fan response in Calgary that Johnny Hockey got and he did worse than just moving, he nixed the deal at the last minute.

 

8 million for those stats.

 

Horvat - 9+ easy

 

Pettersson should get 14+ mil a season based on their estimations.

 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

I thought this new management group said at sometime said they use stats.

 

I wonder because there is a very good website that has stats that is easy to find and use.

 

They signed Miller for that elephant contract and evidently thought they didn't have to pay Horvat as much.

 

Here is a comparison of the two careers;

 

From Hockey reference;

 

Regular Season

 

• Export Data
• Glossary

							Scoring					Goals							Per Game				Point Shares			Adjusted
Player	Tm	Pos	From	To	Active	GP	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	EV	PP	SH	GW	S	S%	TOI	G	A	PTS	S	OPS	DPS	PS	G	A	PTS
Bo Horvat	VAN	C	2014	2023	9	618	200	215	415	-67	200	123	67	10	25	1429	14.0	11444	0.32	0.35	0.67	2.31	31.8	10.9	42.7	242	250	492
J.T. Miller	TOT	LW/C	2012	2023	11	683	187	308	495	26	357	133	50	4	37	1296	14.4	11640	0.27	0.45	0.72	1.90	38.2	13.1	51.3	220	354	574

 

It seems to me that Horvat not only paralleled Miller and the mostly played on better teams, but Horvat should have been seen as better.

 

Still Horvat should be seen as worth more.

 

Bet they don't do anything and wait until the draft because they want to give The Bookie, their friend the best team possible and then use the negative press, they think it would be negative for the player, as leverage to get him to sign at the last minute so there isn't a Gaudreau or Tkachuk fan response.

 

I hope they looked at the fan response in Calgary that Johnny Hockey got and he did worse than just moving, he nixed the deal at the last minute.

 

8 million for those stats.

 

Horvat - 9+ easy

 

Pettersson should get 14+ mil a season based on their estimations.

 

Bo is a huge minus over his career.  Miller is a big plus.  

[ToTellTheTruth]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Bo is a huge minus over his career.  Miller is a big plus.  

Is it really necessary to point out that Miller played on winning teams and wasn't the cornerstone of those teams? I would have thought the number of playoff games he played would be evident of that.

 

Oops, didn't put that stat up here;

 

Playoffs

							Scoring					Goals							Per Game
Player	Tm	Pos	From	To	Active	GP	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	EV	PP	SH	GW	S	S%	TOI	G	A	PTS	S
Bo Horvat	VAN	C	2014	2020	2	23	11	5	16	1	6	7	3	1	2	58	19.0	426	0.48	0.22	0.70	2.52
J.T. Miller	TOT	C/LW	2013	2020	7	78	9	35	44	3	58	6	3	0	1	126	7.1	1282	0.12	0.45	0.56	1.62

Edited January 24, 2023 by ToTellTheTruth

[Nucker 67]

I think they'll re-sign Horvat. He'll agree to stick around after seeing the new coaches' strategies and the quality of the practices, the new direction.  

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, NUCKER67 said:

I think they'll re-sign Horvat. He'll agree to stick around after seeing the new coaches' strategies and the quality of the practices, the new direction.  

I think the new direction is tank city.   And we will see quite a few trades before the deadline.  

[Nucker 67]

Just now, IBatch said:

I think the new direction is tank city.   And we will see quite a few trades before the deadline.  

I would be okay with this too. I think Bo will re-sign, because the job is all about winning hockey games, but I would prefer they trade him and others to improve the team down the road.

[Alflives]

Just now, ToTellTheTruth said:

Is it really necessary to point out that Miller played on winning teams and wasn't the cornerstone of those teams? I would have thought the number of playoff games he played would be evident of that.

Facts are facts though.  Miller, when on the ice at 5 on 5, is a plus.  Bo isn't.  Bo isn't a very good player without the puck.  He's worth the same contract that Miller got.  56 million. I understand we offered a bit under 50 million.  Rumors were 49 (7 x7)  That, to me needs to be bumped up to one more year.  So 56 million. IMHAO that's what Bo should get.

[ToTellTheTruth]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Facts are facts though.  Miller, when on the ice at 5 on 5, is a plus.  Bo isn't.  Bo isn't a very good player without the puck.  He's worth the same contract that Miller got.  56 million. I understand we offered a bit under 50 million.  Rumors were 49 (7 x7)  That, to me needs to be bumped up to one more year.  So 56 million. IMHAO that's what Bo should get.

So what team he played on means nothing? Playing with better players than Baertschi or Eriksson didn't make a difference? Playing a more relaxed way where the weight of the team isn't on his shoulders doesn't make a difference or a winning environment?

 

His playoff stats are much better, just not enough of them 

 

Just the playoff stats are hugely in Horvat's favour.

5 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I would be okay with this too. I think Bo will re-sign, because the job is all about winning hockey games, but I would prefer they trade him and others to improve the team down the road.

The job, what about what the player wants? His career is on the down side quickly, do you think maybe he wants success, to play for a cup?

 

After 8 years, 4 head coaches, three GM's and over 375 losses he will be fooled like a fan that 8 weeks of having another change will insure a positive change or speed in a change of direction? That if he had a chance to go to say, Detroit where there is stability and a plan with lots of good young players closer to home he should turn it down for the same money? Or Columbus, Boston, Pittsburgh, Carolina or any number of winning teams?

 

If winning a cup or just being in the playoffs doesn't make difference to a player is that a player you want on your team, one that doesn't care?

 

Besides he has already said he is tired of all the losing publicly. Doesn't his explosion in play show how badly he wants out? He wants a big contract and now he can go to just about any team. He is 29 next month with maybe another 4/5 years of being a force.

 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

I don't get why they want to sign Horvat. TSN is reporting they are taking one final shot. Ok so you're doubling down on a roster that doesn't work. Brilliant work. It makes no sense. I almost have no faith left in the entire organization. Such a joke.

[cripplereh]

Pointless to sit him,his value will go down big time unless a deal or two is close.

[combover]

Yes.

since we don’t have another Center on the team that even close to him in face off ability sitting him will help us in the standings 

[Viper007]

8 hours ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

So what team he played on means nothing? Playing with better players than Baertschi or Eriksson didn't make a difference? Playing a more relaxed way where the weight of the team isn't on his shoulders doesn't make a difference or a winning environment?

 

His playoff stats are much better, just not enough of them 

 

Just the playoff stats are hugely in Horvat's favour.

The job, what about what the player wants? His career is on the down side quickly, do you think maybe he wants success, to play for a cup?

 

After 8 years, 4 head coaches, three GM's and over 375 losses he will be fooled like a fan that 8 weeks of having another change will insure a positive change or speed in a change of direction? That if he had a chance to go to say, Detroit where there is stability and a plan with lots of good young players closer to home he should turn it down for the same money? Or Columbus, Boston, Pittsburgh, Carolina or any number of winning teams?

 

If winning a cup or just being in the playoffs doesn't make difference to a player is that a player you want on your team, one that doesn't care?

 

Besides he has already said he is tired of all the losing publicly. Doesn't his explosion in play show how badly he wants out? He wants a big contract and now he can go to just about any team. He is 29 next month with maybe another 4/5 years of being a force.

 

Yes Miller played on better teams, but he didn't get the opportunity on those teams like he has with Vancouver.  He's been a top 6 player on Vancouver, the same as Horvat and has produced at a much higher rate.  This is the only season where Horvat has been higher.