SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 5 minutes ago, mll said: Can they? Thought they'd have to retain the same percentage on both deals. That’s my understanding as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 13 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said: Not Miller, Schneider? Jirieck, they already have 8 NHL defencemen under 26 yrs old, 4 dmen 22 to 24. One thing they can't wait on is a veteran center that is winning FO's, scoring 30 goals a year and stays healthy. The ages also work too, JG is 29, Horvat 29. Ya, I thought of Bailey too but I think he is too important in the room. Lamer isn't shy about trading for hungry vets and their defence is deep too. There was some friction in the Dobson negotiations and I think the Romanov trade before the Miller stuff got out was to either have him replace Dobson or as the trade chip for the Canucks because that signing was really out of left field. That and Lamer likes to have cap certainty so a GM that might have wanted to talk to Miller's agent first or they already did. That trade was thought to be all but done when it disappeared. If they weren't willing to trade Schneider last season I don't see why they'd do it now. New York is strong down the right side but not quite as strong down the left, Miller also gives them size on the back end. Miller is also second on the Rangers D this season with 25 points in 48 games, ranking only behind Fox. As for Columbus. Sure, and he has higher pedigree. He's 6'3", having a great year offensively in the AHL, a recent 6OA pick who's also an RD. Columbus is further away than closer anyway, his being younger actually works for them. They can afford to be patient as they're still in a bottom feeder stage anyway. Bringing in a Horvat isn't going to seriously alter their trajectory regardless as to whether they need a center or not. Gaudreau and Laine being there or not. They'd probably move out Boqvist first, or a guy like Mateychuk or Ceulemans. I don't know, I think NYI would prefer to win sooner or later and I question whether they'd extend Bailey after this current deal anyway. His not having much term left is why I'd be targeting him in a Miller trade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 K’Andre for Garland? I almost spit out my coffee!! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: An individual contract can have a maximum of two teams retaining salary on it. So we could retain salary on OEL. It’s obviously not ideal, but still far preferable to a buyout: problem with retaining is that we need to find a new player to fill that Roster spot. If we fill his spot with a 3-4M$ that similar to him in performances and we retain 2-3M$ on OEL, then we paying his replacement 5-7M$ anyways. Might as well just keep him a couple of years, then buy him out of retain the last 2 years. His buyout in 2025 doesn't look too bad. 4.2M - 4.2M - 1.5M - 1.5M. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 11 minutes ago, mll said: Can they? Thought they'd have to retain the same percentage on both deals. Hard to say, I've never had anyone with a definitive answer to that that they can back up with a source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 5 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: That’s my understanding as well. So to be clear possible to retain on his current deal but don't have to on the next one because it's 2 separate contracts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 https://puckpedia.com/salary-cap/retained-salary Sort of explains but not quite. Retained Salary When teams trade a player, they can retain, or keep, some of the players' salary and cap hit. The team keeps a % of both the cap hit and salary for the remainder of the contract. Therefore, if a Player with a Salary of $2.0M and a Cap Hit/AAV of $3.0M is traded with 20% retention, the trading team would continue to pay 20% of the $2.0M Salary and would continue to have a cap hit of 20% of the $3.0M Cap Hit. The maximum retention % is 50%. Teams can only carry a maximum of 3 Retained Salaries at a time. An individual contract can only have a maximum of 2 teams retaining salary on it. The maximum amount of retained salary by a team is 15% of the Salary Cap for the current year. If a team retains salary on a traded player and that player is later sent to the minors, there is no change to the cap hit for the retaining team. If a team retains salary on a trade, they cannot reacquire that player for one year from the date of the transaction, unless the contract ends prior to one year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 How about instead of retaining on contracts - management doesn't offer the type of contracts to guys that will inevitably end in a buyout/retention? Yes, I know a couple weren't current management's own doing, but a buyout, for any player on any team - is that not a cautionary tale to ALL NHL GM's? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTellTheTruth Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 8 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: You're being extremely over generous on what you think it means that we would retain on trades. It means that we would retain on guys like Horvat who has an expiring contract, making it easier for him to be fit in under a teams cap. There is ZERO way that we retain 50% of Boeser, they would just sit on him till summer when teams have more flexibility in their current cap. OEL would have to agree to waive his NMC, and if he's willing to, I think we would probably consider retaining about 1.5 - 2 million. More than that and your effectiveness in retaining diminishes greatly. Although I agree that OEL is not worth what we are paying him right now, you wouldn't find someone who can do what he IS capable of at 3.65 million, so why do the trade, you're moving into negative return by doing it, you'd actually wind up with less space by default. Garland was signed for about 1.5 million more than he should have been, I think if you retained roughly what you would save by parking him in Abbotsford, 1.25 million, you probably have takers. Myers would be a guy during summer, once his 5 million signing bonus is paid, I could see the Canucks trading him with 1 million retained to a team like Arizona who has no interest in being above the cap floor right now and want to get TO the cap floor as cheaply as possible. Being able to take up 5 or 6 million of cap floor space while only spending 1 million would be extremely attractive to them. Trading Boeser isn't really a problem of overall value, if he was making 2.5 million, there's still only 5 or 6 teams who could take him without first figuring out who they are removing from their lineup to make space, and that player might not be someone we want back. That means finding another trading partner in the 5 or 6 teams who have ANY cap space at all and making a deal to move a contract. There's a reason why any trades happening in the last few months (like Colorado and San Jose yesterday), are for players making less than 1 million per year, it's because teams are literally counting every dollar of cap space that they are moving and in some cases, $1.00 could break a deal. Boeser, ya they might, but doing it now allows more time for chemistry to form, Tocchet to teach his system, change fan attitudes. Minnesota has two players that have been in the doghouse lately, Dumba and Greenway either could help the Canucks. But ya wait because they could hurt the draft position. They will keep Myers because there are no replacements anywhere, not even FA's and why take two years of extra cap hits for more than what is being paid, a double hit then. Besides big RHD are rare at the TDL next year. A buyout is a waste of ..... Besides Myers is hardly one of the corner stone pieces on the team. OEL was willing to waive his NMC because of Tocchet once and now, one of his interviews was less that endorsing so maybe he waives again. When cap space is talked about very few people realize that retention is using cap space already used. If available empty cap space can be "weaponized" to trade for bad contracts and extra picks then why not cap space already used? To enhance the return on any trades. The longer Horvat can help a team the more valuable he is immediately. Time is money. Cap space is already there. Most of the suggestions were dependant upon IF any trade was made at all. Just to show that trades can be done even with teams that don't have enough space today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 6 minutes ago, mll said: So to be clear possible to retain on his current deal but don't have to on the next one because it's 2 separate contracts. No, sorry. I see that wasn’t very clear in my part. My understanding is the same as yours. I believe that teams are on the hook for whatever contracts they have on their books so for Miller they must retain an equal percentage of both deals (the current one and the extension). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) 12 minutes ago, timberz21 said: problem with retaining is that we need to find a new player to fill that Roster spot. If we fill his spot with a 3-4M$ that similar to him in performances and we retain 2-3M$ on OEL, then we paying his replacement 5-7M$ anyways. Might as well just keep him a couple of years, then buy him out of retain the last 2 years. His buyout in 2025 doesn't look too bad. 4.2M - 4.2M - 1.5M - 1.5M. Why would they need to find someone to fill his roster spot this year? If we are moving guys like OEL and others they aren't trying to get better or stay the same this year...they are looking at next and beyond. Edited January 26 by Harold Drunken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 3 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said: Boeser, ya they might, but doing it now allows more time for chemistry to form, Tocchet to teach his system, change fan attitudes. Minnesota has two players that have been in the doghouse lately, Dumba and Greenway either could help the Canucks. But ya wait because they could hurt the draft position. They will keep Myers because there are no replacements anywhere, not even FA's and why take two years of extra cap hits for more than what is being paid, a double hit then. Besides big RHD are rare at the TDL next year. A buyout is a waste of ..... Besides Myers is hardly one of the corner stone pieces on the team. OEL was willing to waive his NMC because of Tocchet once and now, one of his interviews was less that endorsing so maybe he waives again. When cap space is talked about very few people realize that retention is using cap space already used. If available empty cap space can be "weaponized" to trade for bad contracts and extra picks then why not cap space already used? To enhance the return on any trades. The longer Horvat can help a team the more valuable he is immediately. Time is money. Cap space is already there. Most of the suggestions were dependant upon IF any trade was made at all. Just to show that trades can be done even with teams that don't have enough space today They already have Myers replacement. He's signed and playing in Sweden this season. Filip Johansson will be a part of this team next year and likely before the end of the season if he wraps up in Sweden before end of season. He's currently there on loan from the Canucks, but he's NHL ready, right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 42 minutes ago, HKSR said: Boeser, Myers, and Pearson are the guys on short enough deals to retain and not hurt the longer term plan. Retain $1.5M on Boeser, and all of a sudden, he's worth a lot more in a trade. Myers $1M to $2M for 1 season wouldn't hurt us one bit, but would make him much more valuable. Pearson at 50% would be worth a lot more as well. The long term contracts like OEL and Garland are not gonna happen. It eats into the competitive time frame (2 years after this one). Do we need to retain on Pearson if there is a high probability he'll be going on LTIR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Not sure about this, as nice as it sounds, if we retain on anyone we have to replace them and their cap hit basically has to be less than the current player + the retained amount. For example, Myers at 6M for 2 years. If we trade him to say Toronto and retain 2M, we need a top-4 RD now who can play 20+ minutes and costs us less than 4M. That's not happening, we're struggling as it is to fill that hole. Same for say Garland at 5M for another fair few years, we could retain 2M on his deal but then need a 15-20 goal scorer at just 3M which will be hard to come by. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 minute ago, VegasCanuck said: They already have Myers replacement. He's signed and playing in Sweden this season. Filip Johansson will be a part of this team next year and likely before the end of the season if he wraps up in Sweden before end of season. He's currently there on loan from the Canucks, but he's NHL ready, right now. Lol what? Actually? Only followed abbotsford and the Petey 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 12 minutes ago, Fanuck said: How about instead of retaining on contracts - management doesn't offer the type of contracts to guys that will inevitably end in a buyout/retention? Yes, I know a couple weren't current management's own doing, but a buyout, for any player on any team - is that not a cautionary tale to ALL NHL GM's? Be gone, Heretic!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Just now, DownUndaCanuck said: Not sure about this, as nice as it sounds, if we retain on anyone we have to replace them and their cap hit basically has to be less than the current player + the retained amount. For example, Myers at 6M for 2 years. If we trade him to say Toronto and retain 2M, we need a top-4 RD now who can play 20+ minutes and costs us less than 4M. That's not happening, we're struggling as it is to fill that hole. Same for say Garland at 5M for another fair few years, we could retain 2M on his deal but then need a 15-20 goal scorer at just 3M which will be hard to come by. Agreed I see Myers being dealt next tdl He will have positive value at that point whereas we'd have to retain or add sweeteners at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Just now, VegasCanuck said: Be gone, Heretic!!! I feel like the guy saying - don't buy more house/car than you need and everyone around me is like: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Lol what? Actually? Only followed abbotsford and the Petey 2.0 https://www.capfriendly.com/players/filip-johansson Was Minnesota's 1st round pick in 2018, but they were unable to sign him. Canucks did last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 5 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: Why would they need to find someone to fill his roster spot this year? If we are moving guys like OEL and others they aren't trying to get better or stay the same this year...they are looking at next and beyond. You still need warm bodies So without OEL Myers Schenn We have a D unit of Hughes Dermott Bear Burroughs Stillman Juulsen? We're trying to retool not break everyone's spirits and cause permanent damage... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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