2 year Re-Tool (Is it possible?)

[CanucksJay]

Alright CDC 

 

Say I'm Aquaman and you're the GM 

 

What is your best plan for a 2 year retool and setting us up to be a contender at this point? 

 

We just signed Kuz to a 2 year team friendly deal. 

 

What are the next moves? 

 

I'm a bit of a pessimist so it's hard to see how we are going to upgrade our blue line in the next 2 years with the remaining assets while dropping heavily in offense production. 

 

Remember, we should be emerging in 2 years like NJ or Seattle this year. 

 

Any bright ideas? 

Is this even possible? 

 

[MeanSeanBean]

Win first overall and draft Bedard. In my opinion the entire premise of this being possible depends on if we can get insanely lucky in the next few months.

 

Do I think it's possible we can turn it around in 2 years, no. We have no prospects or call space to work with, and the team itself is bottom 5. 

 

Hope I'm wrong, but no I just don't see a way.

[BureBurrito]

what has the last decade shown?

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

I think truly contending for the Cup within two years only happens with a draft lottery win.
 

But getting on the road to contention is possible, within that kind of window, and without being gifted a superstar at the draft.

 

They first need to clear out as many of the surplus players and bad contracts as possible, and get the cap situation under control.

 

Continue to build the farm and development system, draft well and sign even more undrafted free agents, and get the system dependably churning out NHL players for depth (and hopefully get a few surprises who can play higher up the roster while they’re  getting paid low salaries).

 

Then it’s just being smart with trades and free agency, adding a few key core pieces  (this part is hard, of course, but possible, when you actually have cap space) and the right mix secondary/supplemental players, to build a more complete roster that’s tailor made for the system and style they want to play.

 

These types of moves, coupled with the right coaching, and culture building within the organization as a whole, could put the team on track to contention, and open up a window to compete for the Cup (maybe from year 2/3 through 5/6).

[jyu]

12 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Alright CDC 

 

Say I'm Aquaman and you're the GM 

 

What is your best plan for a 2 year retool and setting us up to be a contender at this point? 

 

We just signed Kuz to a 2 year team friendly deal. 

 

What are the next moves? 

 

I'm a bit of a pessimist so it's hard to see how we are going to upgrade our blue line in the next 2 years with the remaining assets while dropping heavily in offense production. 

 

Remember, we should be emerging in 2 years like NJ or Seattle this year. 

 

Any bright ideas? 

Is this even possible? 

 

1. Trade Horvat and Schenn for Kotkaniemi, RD prospect, 1st from Carolina before the TDL.

2. Trade Garland at the TDL.

3. If we get one of the top 3 picks, draft Bedard/Fantilli/Carlsson. The goal is to draft a center in 2023, unless Michkov is available at our pick.

4. Sign Severson to 4 years 4.5 mil in the off season.

5. Sign a back up.

 

Mik-Petey-Kuz 18 mil

Pearson-Miller-Boeser 18 mil

Podz-Kotka-Hogs 6.5 mil

Joshua-Aman-Lazar 3.5 mil

 

Hughes-Severson 12 mil

OEL-Myers 13.5 mil

Dermott-Bear 4 mil

 

Demko-Backup 6.5 mil

 

82 mil.

 

I would look for a 4C for PK since Aman doesn't quite bring that.

 

 

 

 

[Nucker 67]

The lottery will decide who gets Bedard. Sure, the Canucks chances improve ever so slightly the closer they are to the bottom. Doesn't guarantee anything. But saying that, the Canucks do need a top prospect out of this Draft.  

 

Trade Horvat, Boeser, Garland at the TDL. Trade Myers in the off season (after his bonus is paid). Rathbone and Hoglander are also expendable. 

 

Re-sign Schenn - they need his toughness and pushback, especially if they're bringing in younger players, and he loves it in VAN.

 

PAIRS

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - ?

? - Miller - Mikheyev

Joshua - ? - Podkolzin

Studnicka - Lazar - ?

 

Hughes - ?

OEL - Bear

Dermott - Schenn

 

Demko

?

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by NUCKER67

[nuckin_futz]

We have 4 guys who account for 33% of the salary cap and 3 of the 4 are clearly a waste of money. Get rid of them and reallocate that money wisely and miracles can happen.

 

But to answer your question, no.

[GB5]

25 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Alright CDC 

 

Say I'm Aquaman and you're the GM 

 

What is your best plan for a 2 year retool and setting us up to be a contender at this point? 

 

We just signed Kuz to a 2 year team friendly deal. 

 

What are the next moves? 

 

I'm a bit of a pessimist so it's hard to see how we are going to upgrade our blue line in the next 2 years with the remaining assets while dropping heavily in offense production. 

 

Remember, we should be emerging in 2 years like NJ or Seattle this year. 

 

Any bright ideas? 

Is this even possible? 

 

Fire sale to shake up the dysfunctional core of this team

 

Trade Bo - hate to do it but they need a shake up - Need a starting defender in return and a young centre plus pick

Trade Brock - cap dump more so than anything, try to return a pick or prospect

 

Trade Myers and cash to cover his upcoming bonus.

Buy out OEL

Extend Bear

Trade Schenn at TDL - re-sign in off season for 2-3 years

 

Sign a legitimate backup goalie in the offseason

Add journeymen defenders and one or two rugged forwards on July 1

 

I doubt this is enough to get competitive in a couple years but at least this shakes things up to have a more engaged squad on the ice.

[CanucksJay]

3 minutes ago, jyu said:

1. Trade Horvat and Schenn for Kotkaniemi, RD prospect, 1st from Carolina before the TDL.

2. Trade Garland at the TDL.

3. If we get one of the top 3 picks, draft Bedard/Fantilli/Carlsson. The goal is to draft a center in 2023, unless Michkov is available at our pick.

4. Sign Severson to 4 years 4.5 mil in the off season.

5. Sign a back up.

 

Mik-Petey-Kuz 18 mil

Pearson-Miller-Boeser 18 mil

Podz-Kotka-Hogs 6.5 mil

Joshua-Aman-Lazar 3.5 mil

 

Hughes-Severson 12 mil

OEL-Myers 13.5 mil

Dermott-Bear 4 mil

 

Demko-Backup 6.5 mil

 

82 mil.

 

I would look for a 4C for PK since Aman doesn't quite bring that.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this well thought out post. 

So would the hope would be one of the top 3 Cs from 1st round jump onto team in year 2 of retool where we'd move Millsy back to wing (have Pearson contract run out) and have the RD prospect from Horvat trade crack the starting 6 replacing Myers when his contract ends?

My guess is we'd take the late first from Horvat trade and draft a D and hope it pans out in a few years? 

 

Would the addition of Severson, the RD prospect from Horvat trade and Kotka and our 1st rounder this year be enough to take our team and change the trajectory of the team to contention after year 2?

 

Mik Petey Kuz 

Miller (2023 1st round C) Boeser 

Podz Kotka Hogz

Joshua Aman Lazar

 

Hughes Severson 

OEL (RD Prospect from Horvat trade) 

Dermott Bear

 

Demko

 

Is this a good enough team to start contending? 

 

 

 

[jyu]

4 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Thanks for this well thought out post. 

So would the hope would be one of the top 3 Cs from 1st round jump onto team in year 2 of retool where we'd move Millsy back to wing (have Pearson contract run out) and have the RD prospect from Horvat trade crack the starting 6 replacing Myers when his contract ends?

My guess is we'd take the late first from Horvat trade and draft a D and hope it pans out in a few years? 

 

Would the addition of Severson, the RD prospect from Horvat trade and Kotka and our 1st rounder this year be enough to take our team and change the trajectory of the team to contention after year 2?

 

Mik Petey Kuz 

Miller (2023 1st round C) Boeser 

Podz Kotka Hogz

Joshua Aman Lazar

 

Hughes Severson 

OEL (RD Prospect from Horvat trade) 

Dermott Bear

 

Demko

 

Is this a good enough team to start contending? 

 

 

 

Yes, 2C we draft takes over from Miller in year 2 and Miller shifts to wing. Miller brings versatility and the hope is that he can help develop 2C like he helped Petey earlier on and doing things like taking faceoffs.

 

The late first in 2023 can be used to draft a D as you mentioned but I'd still pick the BPA in the first round.

 

Pearson and Myers coming off after next season gives us quite a bit of cap space along with the cap going up by 4+ mil for 2024. We could spend that to upgrade RD if the piece we get back in Horvat trade it not quite ready. Maybe like NJ getting Dougie Hamilton type signing if one were available but even if not, that cap space should get us a good top 4RD.

 

I would also get a more gritty 4C for PK at around 2 mil.

 

I don't think we will contend in year 2, unless that 2C is Bedard and he absolutely pulls a Crosby.

 

II think that team can contend for the playoffs in year 2. But maybe not for the cup. Cup contention is something that will occur over the years as the pieces we add gel with the existing players and the team play with cohesion.

 

[Ghostsof1915]

The team would have to pull off a series of masterful trades to compete for a cup in 2 years. Competitive as in making the playoffs maybe.

A lot is going to have to go right. Have we seen ownership/management do the right thing?

Edited January 27, 2023 by Ghostsof1915

[CanucksJay]

27 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I think truly contending for the Cup within two years only happens with a draft lottery win.
 

But getting on the road to contention is possible, within that kind of window, and without being gifted a superstar at the draft.

 

They first need to clear out as many of the surplus players and bad contracts as possible, and get the cap situation under control.

 

Continue to build the farm and development system, draft well and sign even more undrafted free agents, and get the system dependably churning out NHL players for depth (and hopefully get a few surprises who can play higher up the roster while they’re  getting paid low salaries).

 

Then it’s just being smart with trades and free agency, adding a few key core pieces  (this part is hard, of course, but possible, when you actually have cap space) and the right mix secondary/supplemental players, to build a more complete roster that’s tailor made for the system and style they want to play.

 

These types of moves, coupled with the right coaching, and culture building within the organization as a whole, could put the team on track to contention, and open up a window to compete for the Cup (maybe from year 2/3 through 5/6).

 

12 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

We have 4 guys who account for 33% of the salary cap and 3 of the 4 are clearly a waste of money. Get rid of them and reallocate that money wisely and miracles can happen.

 

But to answer your question, no.

I think problem with clearing out guys who aren't playing up to their salary cap (OEL Myers Boeser) not sure who's the 4th @nuckin_futz is that it'll require assets to move them out. There's also the question of finding 2 defenders that are better than Myers and OEL. As much as we gripe about them, they are the top pairing on our team. They are playing like 4m players but making 6 and 7m+. Whatever move we make to get rid of them must make sense and making sense might mean living with Myers for 1 more season until his contract expires.

They may hold on to OEL even longer and then do what they did with loui and trade him with a year left with sweeteners if they see a great 8-9m D  available on the market. 

 

@SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

What you are proposing is the Kraken model I think... Good structure, well coached, good balance and right culture. 

I dunno if we can do all that in 2 years... 

Barring any trades 

Myers and Pearson are gone after next year

Boeser is gone the following year

 

The only really bad contract that remains after that is OEL. Miller is arguable... I am really hoping Tocchet gets Millsy to a consistent 90 PT level but as a responsible 2 way forward. 

 

At that point, they'll need to decide whether to keep OEL as a guy that's overpaid by 3m or to trade him along with assets to get rid of his cap and then sign someone else for 8-9m..

 

Pietrangelo is a good example of someone that would have been a great pickup but had no intention of signing in Vancouver (even if we had the cap space) 

Even if we create capspace, There has to be a great UFA d available who is wanting to come to Vancouver. 

 

So many things have to go right in the next couple of years for a 2 year retool to work... This is scary as a fan.. 

[nuckin_futz]

4 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

 

I think problem with clearing out guys who aren't playing up to their salary cap (OEL Myers Boeser) not sure who's the 4th @nuckin_futz is that it'll require assets to move them out. There's also the question of finding 2 defenders that are better than Myers and OEL. As much as we gripe about them, they are the top pairing on our team. They are playing like 4m players but making 6 and 7m+. Whatever move we make to get rid of them must make sense and making sense might mean living with Myers for 1 more season until his contract expires.

They may hold on to OEL even longer and then do what they did with loui and trade him with a year left with sweeteners if they see a great 8-9m D  available on the market. 

 

@SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

What you are proposing is the Kraken model I think... Good structure, well coached, good balance and right culture. 

I dunno if we can do all that in 2 years... 

Barring any trades 

Myers and Pearson are gone after next year

Boeser is gone the following year

 

The only really bad contract that remains after that is OEL. Miller is arguable... I am really hoping Tocchet gets Millsy to a consistent 90 PT level but as a responsible 2 way forward. 

 

At that point, they'll need to decide whether to keep OEL as a guy that's overpaid by 3m or to trade him along with assets to get rid of his cap and then sign someone else for 8-9m..

 

Pietrangelo is a good example of someone that would have been a great pickup but had no intention of signing in Vancouver (even if we had the cap space) 

Even if we create capspace, There has to be a great UFA d available who is wanting to come to Vancouver. 

 

So many things have to go right in the next couple of years for a 2 year retool to work... This is scary as a fan.. 

The 4th is Miller. He's overpaid (starting next year) but not exactly a huge waste of money. We'll see what RikTok can do with him.

Edited January 27, 2023 by nuckin_futz

[Coconuts]

No, not without Bedard. And even then, until they gradually turn over and address our defense and bottom six we probably wouldn't be a surefire playoff team even if we had him. Depends on a lot of things like how Demko bounces back, what our special teams look like, what other teams do. 

 

But no, after the past decade of continually failing at retooling I highly doubt this super management group is going to have us contending in two seasons. We also don't have much beyond wing prospects in the cupboards and our prospect pool is definitely more on the shallow end. We're also capped out and will likely have to eat dead cap via buyouts, take cap back in deals, or retain cap to make deals. We'll also likely be down our 2C sooner than later and I don't really view Miller as a center so much as a winger who can take draws. Wouldn't be surprised if we were drafting top 12 again next season. 

 

JR and Allvin can blow all the smoke they like but I think it'll be a while before we're a consistent playoff team again. Not even going to start talking about contention, that's a long ways off.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Coconuts

[CanucksJay]

3 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

The team would have to pull off a series of masterful trades to compete for a cup in 2 years. Competitive as in making the playoffs maybe.

A lot is going to have to go right. Have we seen ownership/management do the right thing?

Lol so true. That's what I'm afraid of... What this team needs to do to execute a 2 year rebuild is like sports betting when you need to hit 4 paralays to win. 

They need to get all of these right and there isn't much margin for error

 

1) Horvat Trade

2)1st round draft

3) Sign a UFA d man

4) Shedding salary (whether it be Brock, Myers OEL) 

[Ghostsof1915]

I am hoping that someone is talking to Livingstone's agent about signing here when his college season is done.

RHD Jake is just what the doctor ordered. He's almost a point a game, He's 6'4" 205 lbs. +6  and has 26 penalty minutes this season. So he has a bit of bite to his game.

He's 23 years old so he's not some wide eyed 19 year old. Worst case he can play in Abby.

 

We need to start trying to pick up more free prospects as much as we can. And get our existing prospects developed.

 

There's going to need to be more than one way for this team to get better.

[Fanuck]

57 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Win first overall and draft Bedard.

I'm on board with the 'finish as low as possible' strategy to get the highest % chance possible - but realistically, we are probably going to end up with around a .500 record the rest of the way or just under that - meaning we're likely going to stay at or around position 5-10 which does NOT give us favourable odds unfortunately. 

 

Sadly, I just ran the sim and believe it or not - Montreal got #1 AND #2 :

 

https://www.tankathon.com/nhl

[MaxVerstappen33]

Dare i say the Canucks are positioning themselves to be the ultimate contrarian bet right now? Usually in life , when literally everyone agrees on something , it's time to take the other side. It is just how fate seems to work. 

 

The Canucks biggest fans are 100% bearish on the team short medium and long term. The haters are just as bearish. Everyone. Me too. 

 

So maybe in the next year or 2 , the unthinkable can happen. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by MaxVerstappen33

[EdgarM]

44 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

The lottery will decide who gets Bedard. Sure, the Canucks chances improve ever so slightly the closer they are to the bottom. Doesn't guarantee anything. But saying that, the Canucks do need a top prospect out of this Draft.  

 

Trade Horvat, Boeser, Garland at the TDL. Trade Myers in the off season (after his bonus is paid). Rathbone and Hoglander are also expendable. 

 

Re-sign Schenn - they need his toughness and pushback, especially if they're bringing in younger players, and he loves it in VAN.

 

PAIRS

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - ?

? - Miller - Mikheyev

Joshua - ? - Podkolzin

Studnicka - Lazar - ?

 

Hughes - ?

OEL - Bear

Dermott - Schenn

 

Demko

?

 

I think a 2 year retool is possible if we can shed the line up to its bear bones as you indicated above. This and get a good pick next year. 

Then the job will be to fill those ? positions with high character, big bodied players similar to what Seattle and Vegas have. Man I wish we could have acquired Tuch when he was available.

The big ask will be to find 2 top 4 d's who can play with Hughes and OEL. These will be key in any kind of success. I would hope that whatever we get for our trades we can at least get one of these guys. 

I wouldn't expect to contend in 2 years but at least start to get experience playing in the playoffs every year in that time. 

With the new direction of having more consistent, structured play, I suspect in 2 years this will be common place and this team will be competing even without a complete Cup contending line up in place.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Pettersson to Columbus...............for...............Juricek, Johnson and 2023- 2nd

 

Hughes to NJ..............................for.................Siegenhaler, Mercer and a 2023- 2nd

 

Horvat to NY Islanders...............for..................Bailey (30% retained), Pullock, and 2023-2nd

 

 

Mikheyev   -    Miller    -   Kuzmenko

Hoglander  -   Johnson  - Boeser

Podkolzin  -   Mercer   -   Garland

Lazar    -     Aman   -   Lockwood

 

Siegenhaler     -     Jiricek

OEL   -   Polluck

Dermott - Bear

Rathbone  -   Myers

 

Demko

Martin

 

Buyout  Bailey (cheap)

Draft Carlsson (2023 1st)

 

Hey, I am Aqualini.....................I just do it and blame the GM's (Plural) about the cap!

 

On the block...................Boeser, Garland, and Myers