Rangers’ Pride Night goes sideways and Chicago Blackhawks refuse to wear pride jerseys

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

17 hours ago, ABNuck said:

I may be way out in right field here, but I'm trying to understand the hate that people are having towards Provorov. These seem to be two different incidents albeit connected by one part of society. By not wanting to where a gay pride jersey, isn't Provorov just exercising his own freedom of expression as well? I myself personally would not wear any symbols of anything to show support for something that I personally don't believe in, and I don't think anyone else should be forced to do so either. What I do find interesting is that when any issue of inclusivity in sport comes up, it seems to be overtaken by the LBGT+++ community. By design, wouldn't inclusivity mean everyone, no matter their race, color, nationality, sexual preference etc.? I don't see a lot of Filipino people in the NHL, nor do I see a lot of Filipino inclusivity media (nights, jerseys, banners etc). I also don't recall hearing Provorov state that he hated gay people or anything like that. If he is like me on the subject then he probably feels that I neither hate nor publicly support, my choice in a free society is it not? Whenever I hear of anyone being excluded (again by either race, nationality, color, religious beliefs, sexual orientation or anything) it frustrates me...but it's the EXCLUSION that frustrates me, not the ideals that the individuals represent. I personally feel that everyone should have their personal rights and freedoms to what they choose, and that no one should penalize anyone for those beliefs as long as they are not contrary to common law. If Provorov came out and stated that he hated gay people and that's why he won't support the evening's theme, then that would be wrong. But he didn't. He simply wants to be included for his own personal views. As do I. I don't hate anyone, not even Calgary Flames fans. They push my patience at times, but I wish them no harm. I wasn't born onto this planet to become any sort of judge of people and their beliefs...they're personal and each person should have the freedom to express them. Heck, even the KKK has right to assemble and speak their thoughts (as long as it isn't hateful)...I don't and never would support them, but I understand their right to speak their opinion. Anyways, focus on the big picture...inclusivity...and don't get too tied up in the tiny details like what Provorov did. Now, what the Rangers did just seems to be a case of misrepresentation. Don't promise something you're not going to deliver. Whether individual players may or may not participate, that's a team level decision. But for the organization as a whole to not follow through definitely wreaks of weak leadership.

I was with you on free speech and right to one’s own beliefs, right up until you undermined your point with the KKK. 

[chon derry]

Being the analytic person that I am. I tried to recall my feelings about my first encounter with racism and the questions I was left with. My encounters were when I was young. After it happened I thought well how can I change that.?  I couldn’t have. There was nothing I could do. So I thought about a hypothetical situation where a homophobe was approached by a gay person. The gay person says to the protester , ok I give up I’ll join your ranks. What would the homophobes response be?  I’m pretty sure the block headed individual wouldn’t change his stance. Or offer up foregiveness he’ll always be what he is. reaching out to certain segments of society isn’t going tip the needle. In fact it might perpetuate more hatred from the fringe. Opposition to racism ,sexism, homophobia isn’t going to go away. The parallels between racism and homophobia are similar. And my personal observations of the one (racism) has improved … somewhat. But  there’s still a very long way to go. For all of it. 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

23 minutes ago, chon derry said:

Being the analytic person that I am. I tried to recall my feelings about my first encounter with racism and the questions I was left with. My encounters were when I was young. After it happened I thought well how can I change that.?  I couldn’t have. There was nothing I could do. So I thought about a hypothetical situation where a homophobe was approached by a gay person. The gay person says to the protester , ok I give up I’ll join your ranks. What would the homophobes response be?  I’m pretty sure the block headed individual wouldn’t change his stance. Or offer up foregiveness he’ll always be what he is. reaching out to certain segments of society isn’t going tip the needle. In fact it might perpetuate more hatred from the fringe. Opposition to racism ,sexism, homophobia isn’t going to go away. The parallels between racism and homophobia are similar. And my personal observations of the one (racism) has improved … somewhat. But  there’s still a very long way to go. For all of it. 

people can change but its not some AHA moment... thats just one problem with cancel culture. some people are really fricking stupid and many of these stupid people are easily influenced and hard headed, its not their fault they were born with low IQ. if you provide them with evidence they will provide you with theirs, it doesnt even matter if someone proved their evidence false, they will think you are lying and cheating them because likely they do not have the full capacity to even understand the evidence..

 

everyone remembers forrest gump right? his iq was 75... for everyone that has a iq of 125 there is a equal amount of people with a iq of 75... 15% of the population has a iq 85 or lower... many of these people and many of their offspring will perpetuate the same beliefs they were raised by because they have very few capacities to think for them selves...

 

this is why we have the saying.... “Never argue with an idiot they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you through experience

and my favorite. “A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” 

 

[chon derry]

6 minutes ago, Bad_BOI_pete said:

people can change but its not some AHA moment... thats just one problem with cancel culture. some people are really fricking stupid and many of these stupid people are easily influenced and hard headed, its not their fault they were born with low IQ. if you provide them with evidence they will provide you with theirs, it doesnt even matter if someone proved their evidence false, they will think you are lying and cheating them because likely they do not have the full capacity to even understand the evidence..

 

everyone remembers forrest gump right? his iq was 75... for everyone that has a iq of 125 there is a equal amount of people with a iq of 75... 15% of the population has a iq 85 or lower... many of these people and many of their offspring will perpetuate the same beliefs they were raised by because they have very few capacities to think for them selves...

 

this is why we have the saying.... “Never argue with an idiot they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you through experience

and my favorite. “A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” 

 

This issue should somehow be addressed but the bigger issues with society whether it’s USA or Canada or anywhere factoring all the rest of the issues in no particular Order because there’s a blind eye to it all. addiction and all it’s sub categories ( stigmatized,homelessness ,exclusion ,health cost etc) racism, police violence on and on an on. This issue well important falls to # 3 or 4 for me. 

[Mando27]

It's no surprise that more and more of these things keep popping up. Hate is on the rise as the wealthy and powerful try to keep us divided.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

I shouldn't be surprised with the reaction on this forum.  Like any most online hockey communities, it's mostly sport jugheads and terrible debaters.

 

Here are the facts.  In Philly, one person (a player) chose not to support the team's Pride appreciation.  Provorov did so because of his religious beliefs, and in the ensuing mediastorm the overall NHL community accepted that.  In New York, the Rangers organization - probably its infamous owner - decided last minute to scrap the Pride warmup jerseys (which were supposed to be auctioned off for charity) on a night dedicated to the LGBTQ community.  When it comes to gay pride in the NHL, push is starting to come to shove, and the league is backing off.

 

More facts: ice hockey is not a welcoming sport for gay men.  It's not like the other North American pro leagues are much better (except the MLS and maybe the NBA), but the NHL has another struggle - it's not very diverse.  It's a white man's game through and through, and anyone who's tried to buck that trend has taken it in the teeth.  And gay hockey players/fans have known this for a while - they are swimming hard upstream.  So while they are probably disappointed with the NHL's weak stance on this, they're not surprised.

 

Pride night, which had been openly embraced by the league for some time, is now a focal point for America's ongoing culture war.   LGBTQ inclusion does not trump religious freedom/expression in the NHL.  Welcome to the new norm of identity politics.

 

As for my own opinion, ***** anyone in the league or any fan here who thinks supporting Pride should be a matter of personal opinion/belief.  The NHL is making it pretty clear that they aren't going to sweat anyone over this.

[IBatch]

The stupidest thing about this orthodox/religious stuff - if it's christian, as believes in Jesus - it's 100% against what he's all about.    Swear anyone hiding behind their religion should spend more time actually practicing it.   Where's the love for all?    Kindness can be tough at times,  but intolerance isn't part of the second testament.   Not religious particularly, find it difficult to understand how those that are supposed to read the bible don't get this though.  

Edited January 30, 2023 by IBatch

[GB5]

On 1/28/2023 at 4:50 PM, Alflives said:

The league clearly should have suspended Provorov for his anti gay actions.  Now it’s spread.  Other players are seemingly refusing to support gay people.  

Not sure if his actions were anti gay.... maybe that was his motivation but what he said doesn't seem to support that he was.

 

The thing that I am concerned about is that I just don't think forcing people with a heavy hand to adhere to societal changes is the right approach. People can have an opinion and Provorov clearly was no hate mongering, his understanding of the world is just different from how others seem to understand it but in condemning Provorov for what amounts to a peaceful self protest is in itself being hateful and contemptful against someone for having a different world view.

 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, GB5 said:

Not sure if his actions were anti gay.... maybe that was his motivation but what he said doesn't seem to support that he was.

 

The thing that I am concerned about is that I just don't think forcing people with a heavy hand to adhere to societal changes is the right approach. People can have an opinion and Provorov clearly was no hate mongering, his understanding of the world is just different from how others seem to understand it but in condemning Provorov for what amounts to a peaceful self protest is in itself being hateful and contemptful against someone for having a different world view.

 

Wearing a pride jersey for warm-up is a very simple thing to do.  Provorov refused and hid behind religious freedoms.  Now, it sure looks like his thinking has spread through the league.  All the players who don’t like gay people will do the same.  The Rangers likely had more than one player refuse.  Provorov’s ideas are a cancer that needs to be cut out of hockey and society.  

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Wearing a pride jersey for warm-up is a very simple thing to do.  Provorov refused and hid behind religious freedoms.  Now, it sure looks like his thinking has spread through the league.  All the players who don’t like gay people will do the same.  The Rangers likely had more than one player refuse.  Provorov’s ideas are a cancer that needs to be cut out of hockey and society.  

How many times does this need to be said?  It was likely James Dolan.  Read the articles.

[GB5]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Wearing a pride jersey for warm-up is a very simple thing to do.  Provorov refused and hid behind religious freedoms.  Now, it sure looks like his thinking has spread through the league.  All the players who don’t like gay people will do the same.  The Rangers likely had more than one player refuse.  Provorov’s ideas are a cancer that needs to be cut out of hockey and society.  

I'm not sure why people down play religious freedom, in Canada it is protected under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you can cancel it.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

26 minutes ago, GB5 said:

I'm not sure why people down play religious freedom, in Canada it is protected under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you can cancel it.

That is because in Canada, gay rights take precedent over religious liberty.  Trinity Western University tried to ban gay sex, and after going through multiple provincial courts, the Supreme Court ultimately ruled in favour of LGBTQ rights and against the school.  In the U.S., you have a similar battle between gay rights vs. religious liberty, but their Supreme Court tends to sidestep/avoid landmark rulings.

 

Your comments here don't fit at all.  It was the Pride jerseys that got cancelled.

[Master Mind]

5 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

As for my own opinion, ***** anyone in the league or any fan here who thinks supporting Pride should be a matter of personal opinion/belief.  The NHL is making it pretty clear that they aren't going to sweat anyone over this.

Imo this type of mentality will lead to more teams cancelling events.

[King Heffy]

6 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I shouldn't be surprised with the reaction on this forum.  Like any most online hockey communities, it's mostly sport jugheads and terrible debaters.

 

Here are the facts.  In Philly, one person (a player) chose not to support the team's Pride appreciation.  Provorov did so because of his religious beliefs, and in the ensuing mediastorm the overall NHL community accepted that.  In New York, the Rangers organization - probably its infamous owner - decided last minute to scrap the Pride warmup jerseys (which were supposed to be auctioned off for charity) on a night dedicated to the LGBTQ community.  When it comes to gay pride in the NHL, push is starting to come to shove, and the league is backing off.

 

More facts: ice hockey is not a welcoming sport for gay men.  It's not like the other North American pro leagues are much better (except the MLS and maybe the NBA), but the NHL has another struggle - it's not very diverse.  It's a white man's game through and through, and anyone who's tried to buck that trend has taken it in the teeth.  And gay hockey players/fans have known this for a while - they are swimming hard upstream.  So while they are probably disappointed with the NHL's weak stance on this, they're not surprised.

 

Pride night, which had been openly embraced by the league for some time, is now a focal point for America's ongoing culture war.   LGBTQ inclusion does not trump religious freedom/expression in the NHL.  Welcome to the new norm of identity politics.

 

As for my own opinion, ***** anyone in the league or any fan here who thinks supporting Pride should be a matter of personal opinion/belief.  The NHL is making it pretty clear that they aren't going to sweat anyone over this.

It's a real problem.  Look at the NHL allowing an openly homophobic bigot to purchase the Preds.

 

[King Heffy]

3 hours ago, GB5 said:

I'm not sure why people down play religious freedom, in Canada it is protected under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you can cancel it.

People are free to practice their religion, but they're not allowed to inflict their barbaric beliefs on others.  The way it should be.

Edited January 30, 2023 by King Heffy

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

2 hours ago, Master Mind said:

Imo this type of mentality will lead to more teams cancelling events.

Kids quit the sport because of homophobia and bullying in hockey culture.  That is wrong, and needs to be fixed.  What good reason could you possibly have to be against that principle?  Religion?  **** that.  Let the kids play.

[Master Mind]

2 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Kids quit the sport because of homophobia and bullying in hockey culture.  That is wrong, and needs to be fixed.  What good reason could you possibly have to be against that principle?  Religion?  **** that.  Let the kids play.

Never said I was against stopping those.

 

Nice assumption...

[lmm]

9 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I shouldn't be surprised with the reaction on this forum.  Like any most online hockey communities, it's mostly sport jugheads and terrible debaters.

 

Here are the facts.  In Philly, one person (a player) chose not to support the team's Pride appreciation.  Provorov did so because of his religious beliefs, and in the ensuing mediastorm the overall NHL community accepted that.  In New York, the Rangers organization - probably its infamous owner - decided last minute to scrap the Pride warmup jerseys (which were supposed to be auctioned off for charity) on a night dedicated to the LGBTQ community.  When it comes to gay pride in the NHL, push is starting to come to shove, and the league is backing off.

 

More facts: ice hockey is not a welcoming sport for gay men.  It's not like the other North American pro leagues are much better (except the MLS and maybe the NBA), but the NHL has another struggle - it's not very diverse.  It's a white man's game through and through, and anyone who's tried to buck that trend has taken it in the teeth.  And gay hockey players/fans have known this for a while - they are swimming hard upstream.  So while they are probably disappointed with the NHL's weak stance on this, they're not surprised.

 

Pride night, which had been openly embraced by the league for some time, is now a focal point for America's ongoing culture war.   LGBTQ inclusion does not trump religious freedom/expression in the NHL.  Welcome to the new norm of identity politics.

 

As for my own opinion, ***** anyone in the league or any fan here who thinks supporting Pride should be a matter of personal opinion/belief.  The NHL is making it pretty clear that they aren't going to sweat anyone over this.

playing devil's advocate here, but it doesn't help the gay community when the most notably gay members of the hockey community are predators like Graham James and Bruce Aldrich. I am pretty sure hockey was homophobic before, but these guys are not helping the gay cause at all. It would probably have helped the gay profile if someone had spoken out about these guys at the height of their infamy.

I would be interested to learn if anyone from the gay community reached out to the likes of Sheldon Kennedy, Theoren Fleury or Kyle Beach

[Slegr]

5 hours ago, lmm said:

playing devil's advocate here, but it doesn't help the gay community when the most notably gay members of the hockey community are predators like Graham James and Bruce Aldrich. I am pretty sure hockey was homophobic before, but these guys are not helping the gay cause at all. It would probably have helped the gay profile if someone had spoken out about these guys at the height of their infamy.

I would be interested to learn if anyone from the gay community reached out to the likes of Sheldon Kennedy, Theoren Fleury or Kyle Beach

These comments make no sense. There are plenty of rapists and pedophiles associated to professional hockey who are straight. Look at Hockey Canada’s mess as a start. Just because non-straight players have been too afraid to identify themselves in the NHL to date, the gay community is supposed to reach out to guys like Fleury because he was raped? I’m just not following the logic.

[lmm]

54 minutes ago, Slegr said:

These comments make no sense. There are plenty of rapists and pedophiles associated to professional hockey who are straight. Look at Hockey Canada’s mess as a start. Just because non-straight players have been too afraid to identify themselves in the NHL to date, the gay community is supposed to reach out to guys like Fleury because he was raped? I’m just not following the logic.

It's alright with me if you can't follow the logic

it doesn't sound like you even want to try, so it's of no bother to me.

Basic homophobia fears the likes of Graham James and Bruce Aldrich, it is a pretty common stereotype that the community is trying to shed

If you can't see the value of gay rights people condemning bad acts by pedophiles, I have to wonder what you think the gay rights movement is all about