Boeser's season is underrated/underappreciated, but the concern is warranted

[stawns]

On 1/31/2023 at 12:52 PM, Dazzle said:

There's no question that Boeser appears to be a shadow of himself with regards to scoring. His wicked wristers have seemingly disappeared from his game. However, take a look at the stats here:

 

 

The only other "bad" season was in 2019, so this season shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

 

That being said, from a points perspective, he is potentially on pace to rival his best seasons. He's 25, and he happens to be in the same first round draft class as Beaulivier (not that this fact is particularly relevant). Beaulivier plays the PK, and he's fast. He's roughly a 40 pt player. Super inconsistent just like Boeser. In this respect, Boeser appears to be at least 2 million overpaid for his production. Although Boeser has never been known to be a fast or great skater, I think (and I hope) he can improve this in the off-season.

 

I'm not sure why Boeser has a tendency to pass now versus shoot. Maybe this is a consequence of his surgeries?

 

Thoughts?

While his numbers are seemingly good, anyone who watches the games knows he's a passenger..........I don't have an issue with that, other that he's paid like a play driver.  

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

On 1/31/2023 at 1:54 PM, thrago said:

When your rookie season is the best season you've had and you make $6.6 million dollars because of it there isn't much good to say no matter how you try to look at it.  Brock has been and continues to be a disappointment on the Ice. Off the Ice he is a first class person but that only goes so far.

His contract is what it is because of the grenade Jim Benning handed Alvin. Re: Qualifying offer he was at a minimum required to be offered else lose him for nothing,  Long term planning in terms of cap management was hardly one of Bennings strengths.

Edited February 3, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Dazzle]

6 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

His contract is what it is because of the grenade Jim Benning handed Alvin. Re: Qualifying offer he was at a minimum required to be offered else lose him for nothing,  Long term planning in terms of cap management was hardly one of Bennings strengths.

It's not a grenade though. Allvin re-signed Boeser, but I don't think it was a bad gamble. What if Boeser improved his game? We couldn't have known that he'd 'regress' (he's not actually regressing). This is not on Benning.

[Dazzle]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:42 AM, Tiger-Hearted said:

I have never seen a player regress as poorly as Boeser and at Boeser's age. Blaming the back injury from 5 years ago is beating a dead horse. He was still producing modestly in the following 2 seasons. Boeser hasn't done anything to improve his skating nor try to recapture some of that lost velocity in his shot. BoHo worked hard on all aspects of his game since his rookie season. Petey has gained strength and has worked on his overall game while becoming one of the best all-around players in the NHL. Something just isn't right upstairs with Boeser. And it goes far beyond his late dad's declining health and inevitable passing.....that's life unfortunately. Doesn't seemed motivated nor determined. 9 goals in 41 games this season at this stage in his career is absolutely ridiculous.

Boeser has improved his skating speed (somewhat). He also gained weight, which also nullified his speed gains. Of course, the improvements are obviously nowhere near the levels of Horvat.

We have to acknowledge that injuries are difficult to judge. We have no idea how much pain he goes through every day. How did his shot get so neutered compared to previous years? We cannot rule out the impacts of injuries/surgery because they affected his back, as well as his wrist. Making sweeping statements about how he's handling it is pretty irresponsible.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Dazzle

[Tiger-Hearted]

3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Boeser has improved his skating speed (somewhat). He also gained weight, which also nullified his speed gains. Of course, the improvements are obviously nowhere near the levels of Horvat.

We have to acknowledge that injuries are difficult to judge. We have no idea how much pain he goes through every day. How did his shot get so neutered compared to previous years? We cannot rule out the impacts of injuries/surgery because they affected his back, as well as his wrist. Making sweeping statements about how he's handling it is pretty irresponsible.

Boeser has regressed. There's no sugarcoating it. Irresponsible?? Ridiculous.

Got to call a spade a "spade".

[J-23]

He hasn’t worked on his speed and his hands. Like others have said, you have to work on your game each year and get better. Especially when injuries have pretty much costed him his shot.

 

Looking towards more wingers like Mikh now. Score goals, PP, PK, speed and size…a little bit of everything.

[higgyfan]

On 1/31/2023 at 2:15 PM, combover said:

People need someone to blame for this disastrous season.

 like one player performing near career levels is the problem. hes the easy target. 

his production is slightly Down and he signed a contract that was under the QO but still a bit to much for what he brings currently.

5.5mill he’d be fair value for players signing in the last 12 months.

he’s not nearly as bad as some on here desperately fabricate trash about.

Brock will do fine with a fresh start he’ll continue to put up points 

I don’t know what the toll of all his injuries surgeries and personal life are buts he’s a decent  top 6 player. 
definatly underrated here and a scapegoat for how bad the over team has been. he won’t be unhappy to be traded away from this circus. 
 

Agreed.  A fresh start will do wonders for Brock. 

 

On 1/31/2023 at 2:15 PM, combover said:

i don’t know much about AB except what the reports and his stats say. 

hes a career .45ppg player that’s quick and forechecks we’ll 

sound like a third line checking winger to me a Hansen type. 
a better comparison for him would be garland. 
perhaps given more opportunity AB can produce more 

but his contract is coming due to so then you have to pay him more. I doubt he’s ever a .73-.78 ppg player that brock currently is. 

AB will be a great addition to the middle 6 and Pk 

Beau is in the 2nd year of his contract and has underperformed thus far.  This is why the Islanders included

him in the trade.  If he doesn't improve his production, I would think his next contract would have a lower $ value.

 

I also think he will be a great addition to the team and if he gets his scoring mojo back, give him a raise!

 

 

[SilentSam]

5 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Boeser has improved his skating speed (somewhat). He also gained weight, which also nullified his speed gains. Of course, the improvements are obviously nowhere near the levels of Horvat.

We have to acknowledge that injuries are difficult to judge. We have no idea how much pain he goes through every day. How did his shot get so neutered compared to previous years? We cannot rule out the impacts of injuries/surgery because they affected his back, as well as his wrist. Making sweeping statements about how he's handling it is pretty irresponsible.

Then put him on LTIR .

[thrago]

12 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

His contract is what it is because of the grenade Jim Benning handed Alvin. Re: Qualifying offer he was at a minimum required to be offered else lose him for nothing,  Long term planning in terms of cap management was hardly one of Bennings strengths.

Well to be fare at the time Boeser signed his second contract he looked like he was going to be a star in the league and the stupid rule about constant raises has been removed unfortunately Brock still fell under it.  Since signing his second contract he has been on a steady decline rather than progressing.  The simple fact is that Brock wasn't living up to his last contract so giving him a raise was a huge gamble that hasn't paid off.  It would seem letting him walk or just eating his one year at 7.5 would have been the better choice, and not going to lie it seemed like the pretty obvious choice to me.   IMO and of course this is just a guess and it's somewhat understandable given his fathers situation is that Brock doesn't take his offseason training very seriously.  Guys that come into camp in shape get injured less often and yes that includes freak hand injures and the like.  Being quicker, stronger and more flexible reduces the chances of all types of injures. 

 

The end result is they took a gamble on Brock and they probably should have made Brock take a gamble on himself by only signing him to a one year deal, now we are stuck with an asset with little to no value, vs an asset we could have retained on for a few months and got a decent return.  I'm hoping PA and JR have learnt there lesson now that they have traded Horvat,  But there first 8-9 months might be the worst we have seen from a management group and that is saying a lot.   

[EddieVedder]

4 minutes ago, thrago said:

Well to be fare at the time Boeser signed his second contract he looked like he was going to be a star in the league and the stupid rule about constant raises has been removed unfortunately Brock still fell under it.  Since signing his second contract he has been on a steady decline rather than progressing.  The simple fact is that Brock wasn't living up to his last contract so giving him a raise was a huge gamble that hasn't paid off.  It would seem letting him walk or just eating his one year at 7.5 would have been the better choice, and not going to lie it seemed like the pretty obvious choice to me.   IMO and of course this is just a guess and it's somewhat understandable given his fathers situation is that Brock doesn't take his offseason training very seriously.  Guys that come into camp in shape get injured less often and yes that includes freak hand injures and the like.  Being quicker, stronger and more flexible reduces the chances of all types of injures. 

 

The end result is they took a gamble on Brock and they probably should have made Brock take a gamble on himself by only signing him to a one year deal, now we are stuck with an asset with little to no value, vs an asset we could have retained on for a few months and got a decent return.  I'm hoping PA and JR have learnt there lesson now that they have traded Horvat,  But there first 8-9 months might be the worst we have seen from a management group and that is saying a lot.   

Not really.   Even in year one he was benefitting from the fact this team was so thin on the wings.  He was given every prime opportunity to score goals- most of which were just a product of perfect setups.   

[thrago]

Just now, EddieVedder said:

Not really.   Even in year one he was benefitting from the fact this team was so thin on the wings.  He was given every prime opportunity to score goals- most of which were just a product of perfect setups.   

You might be right, saying star was probably pushing it,  but I'm sure the expectation was he would improve or at worse stay the same instead of getting worse.

[Coconuts]

On 1/31/2023 at 12:58 PM, You Mad Bro? said:

Rookie Brock Boeser looked and frankly was a lock to be a consistent 40 goal scorer. Was just never the same after his back and wrist injuries. Such a shame. What could have been. 

This, he came into the league and looked like a goal scorer. Folks still seem to look at him and expect that but he just doesn't appear to be that player anymore. As others have said he's a complimentary winger who's skilled enough to produce on a line with other skilled player. There's probably still room for him in a lot of team's top six. His shot isn't what it was though for whatever reason, he's a guy who's best tool was his shot and he's had to adjust to it not being what it was. 

 

He's overpaid for what he's bringing but he's not worthless, his being overpaid will almost certainly hurt the return the Canucks get for him via trade though imo. He could probably use a fresh start elsewhere and a skills coach or something to help him work on his shot. 

 

All this being said he's still one of the most likeable guys on the team. 

[PuckYa]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:42 AM, Tiger-Hearted said:

I have never seen a player regress as poorly as Boeser and at Boeser's age. Blaming the back injury from 5 years ago is beating a dead horse. He was still producing modestly in the following 2 seasons. Boeser hasn't done anything to improve his skating nor try to recapture some of that lost velocity in his shot. BoHo worked hard on all aspects of his game since his rookie season. Petey has gained strength and has worked on his overall game while becoming one of the best all-around players in the NHL. Something just isn't right upstairs with Boeser. And it goes far beyond his late dad's declining health and inevitable passing.....that's life unfortunately. Doesn't seemed motivated nor determined. 9 goals in 41 games this season at this stage in his career is absolutely ridiculous.

Bone dry Boeser.

Most nights he never broke a sweat. 

 

[Dazzle]

3 hours ago, Tiger-Hearted said:

Boeser has regressed. There's no sugarcoating it. Irresponsible?? Ridiculous.

Got to call a spade a "spade".

And I'm calling a spade a spade. You said he didn't seem determined or motivated. That was the issue I had with your post.

[Tiger-Hearted]

38 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

And I'm calling a spade a spade. You said he didn't seem determined or motivated. That was the issue I had with your post.

How come BoHo and Petey improved each and every season and not Boeser?? Determination and motivation. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Hard to say if all these assists are because of his good hockey IQ (which I think he has for sure) or just a result of the higher octane offence of the team and current league. 9 goals is pretty sad though considering so many players are banging them in like nothing, and his offence has dropped off over the years. That being said, he's still young and as long as he has the raw potential, he could just explode one year.

 

The cap is the big problem. He deserves around 5M max. One-way slow winger who doesn't even score much anymore, you could argue that's 3rd line material worth Pearson money almost, but he's scoring at a 50-60 point pace. If Garland's on a 5M deal and scores a tiny bit less, Beauvillier's on a 4.1M deal and scores a touch less than him, Boeser probably does deserve around 5-6M. It's all because of his QO that he's on a silly 6.6M deal. Realistically across the rest of the Canucks and league, he's probably worth 5-5.5M max.

 

We need to trade him, I'm one of his biggest fans but this team needs a real over-haul and if Bo's been traded, Boeser should really go too. He needs a fresh start, the Canucks do too. I'm sure he'll explode on a new team as well, it'd be the shake-up he needs. He played lights-out after being a healthy scratch for once, imagine what a trade would do. The cap plays a big role too, personally we should be spending that on a defenceman rather than a winger right now.

 

There's so many 1-for-1 deals out there. Dumba, Severson (if we add Schenn?), Mantha, Monahan to name a few. All those teams have been interested in Boeser as well. Their fans and GMs see the raw potential in him and you just know if he was playing in a NJD top-6 or alongside Kaprizov or even in Washington, or with the kids in MTL, he'd explode and hit his potential.

 

All those players coming back aren't good, sounds like Dumba and even Severson aren't going to get re-signed so are basically UFAs (who we could re-sign on the cheap if they look good with us, or let walk and save the cap). Mantha is really struggling and a perfect Allvin-like project (eg. Bear). Monahan might snag MTL a 1st, but there were talks of this a while ago and now we're one Bo down, having a decent 2C lets Miller roam around on the wing.

[D.B Cooper]

Boeser stinks. 
He can’t skate. He’s poor defensively. 
His one real attribute was his shot, and he doesn’t use it. When he does, it take 3 days to get it off.  

Injuries, family stuff, etc…….

Personally, I’m tired of the excuses for why he sucks.   
He isn’t worth close to his contract, and he is part of the reason we are cap crunched and garbage.  
 

Enough is enough.  
Secondary assists aren’t impressive for me to want to keep watching this crap year after year.  
Time to ditch him for whatever we can get. 

[D.B Cooper]

Double post.  Sorry!

Edited February 5, 2023 by D.B Cooper

[MattWN.]

11 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

Boeser stinks. 
He can’t skate. He’s poor defensively. 
His one real attribute was his shot, and he doesn’t use it. When he does, it take 3 days to get it off.  

Injuries, family stuff, etc…….

Personally, I’m tired of the excuses for why he sucks.   
He isn’t worth close to his contract, and he is part of the reason we are cap crunched and garbage.  
 

Enough is enough.  
Secondary assists aren’t impressive for me to want to keep watching this crap year after year.  
Time to ditch him for whatever we can get. 

Harsh way to put it, but you're not wrong.

 

If he doesn't have an elite shot and the ability to finish like we saw in his rookie campaign, his skating is far too weak to make up for the lack of finish. 

Unless he somehow manages to add another wrinkle or two to his game, he's going to stagnate and become another journeyman winger lost to time. 

 

Not that they're exactly the same kind of player, but remember Cheechoo? He scored 56 goals, and then 3 years later wasn't even in the league. When you're a one dimensional player, and lose that skill that made you elite... what the hell are you left with?

[Tiger-Hearted]

20 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

Boeser stinks. 
He can’t skate. He’s poor defensively. 
His one real attribute was his shot, and he doesn’t use it. When he does, it take 3 days to get it off.  

Injuries, family stuff, etc…….

Personally, I’m tired of the excuses for why he sucks.   
He isn’t worth close to his contract, and he is part of the reason we are cap crunched and garbage.  
 

Enough is enough.  
Secondary assists aren’t impressive for me to want to keep watching this crap year after year.  
Time to ditch him for whatever we can get. 

 

19 hours ago, MattWN. said:

Harsh way to put it, but you're not wrong.

 

If he doesn't have an elite shot and the ability to finish like we saw in his rookie campaign, his skating is far too weak to make up for the lack of finish. 

Unless he somehow manages to add another wrinkle or two to his game, he's going to stagnate and become another journeyman winger lost to time. 

 

Not that they're exactly the same kind of player, but remember Cheechoo? He scored 56 goals, and then 3 years later wasn't even in the league. When you're a one dimensional player, and lose that skill that made you elite... what the hell are you left with?

Very fair and accurate comments.

 

As great of a guy and as a human being Boeser is, but he has regressed terribly. Facts are facts. He's in his mid 20's already and he isn't even half the player we were all excited to have on our team in his rookie season. The Flow has become The Slow. Sounds harsh, I know, but facts are facts. Just NINE goals in 41 games is UNACCEPTABLE. If Boeser were pushing 20 goals right now, I would be fine with that. But NINE?? Uh, uh.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Tiger-Hearted