[Proposal] Boeser OR Myers with Retention

[HKSR]

With the realization of the going rate of 3rd party retention on a transaction, here is where I think we should go with Boeser (or Myers):

 

To VAN: (retain 25% on Boeser - $1,662,500 retained)

1st round pick

 

To 3rd Party: (retain 50% on remainder - $2,493,750)

4th round pick --- this seems to be the going rate for retention, likely because there's no actual dollars that need to be paid (see Savard and Foligno deals as examples)

 

To Contender:

Boeser at $2,493,750 AAV for 2 years

 

So essentially we trade Boeser+4th for a 1st with $1.663M retained.

Edited February 1 by HKSR

[DownUndaCanuck]

So the 3rd party basically get a 4th round pick for 2.5M dead cap? 

 

We just paid a 2nd rounder to get rid of Dickinson which was about the same. It's hard to tell how much cap is worth but I think it's roughly around that so we'd have to cough up a 2nd.

 

If the first is coming from a contender, there's not much difference between a late 1st and our 2nd anyway.

 

I'd rather just trade Brock to one of the teams who seem interested (New Jersey, Avs, Minnesota, basically anyone who wants scoring) and take a cap dump back. More than happy to retain 2M (we've got 2.4M dead cap off the books this off-season anyway) in which case they'd have to give us a nice pick but it'd most likely be a 2nd. Maybe we can squeeze a late first out of a team if we throw them Schenn.

 

For example:

TO MIN: Boeser (2m retained) + Schenn

TO VAN: Dumba + 1st

 

They get an RD replacement and a top-6 scorer and get rid of Dumba who they were going to let walk anyway (so really is a cap dump), we get a guy who can play RD for a bit, Allvin loves a project so if he does well we may re-sign him even with the money freed up by Boeser or let him walk, but most importantly get a shiny 1st round pick in the 20th overall spot.

[HKSR]

12 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

So the 3rd party basically get a 4th round pick for 2.5M dead cap? 

 

We just paid a 2nd rounder to get rid of Dickinson which was about the same. It's hard to tell how much cap is worth but I think it's roughly around that so we'd have to cough up a 2nd.

 

If the first is coming from a contender, there's not much difference between a late 1st and our 2nd anyway.

 

I'd rather just trade Brock to one of the teams who seem interested (New Jersey, Avs, Minnesota, basically anyone who wants scoring) and take a cap dump back. More than happy to retain 2M (we've got 2.4M dead cap off the books this off-season anyway) in which case they'd have to give us a nice pick but it'd most likely be a 2nd. Maybe we can squeeze a late first out of a team if we throw them Schenn.

 

For example:

TO MIN: Boeser (2m retained) + Schenn

TO VAN: Dumba + 1st

 

They get an RD replacement and a top-6 scorer and get rid of Dumba who they were going to let walk anyway (so really is a cap dump), we get a guy who can play RD for a bit, Allvin loves a project so if he does well we may re-sign him even with the money freed up by Boeser or let him walk, but most importantly get a shiny 1st round pick in the 20th overall spot.

Toronto retained $2.5M on Robin Lehner and got a 5th round pick out of it:  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/robin-lehner

Detroit retained $2.125M on David Savard and got a 4th round pick out of it.  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/david-savard

SJ retained $1.375M on Nick Foligno and got a 4th round pick out of it:  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/nick-foligno

SJ retained $1.125M on Mattias Janmark and got a 5th round pick out of it:  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/mattias-janmark

 

It won't cost us a 2nd for $2.5M.  The teams that usually do this are not spending to the cap.  These retentions cost the team nothing in terms of actual dollars.

 

Edited February 1 by HKSR

[timberz21]

15 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Toronto retained $2.5M on Robin Lehner and got a 5th round pick out of it:  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/robin-lehner

Detroit retained $2.125M on David Savard and got a 4th round pick out of it.  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/david-savard

SJ retained $1.375M on Nick Foligno and got a 4th round pick out of it:  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/nick-foligno

SJ retained $1.125M on Mattias Janmark and got a 5th round pick out of it:  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/mattias-janmark

 

It won't cost us a 2nd for $2.5M.  The teams that usually do this are not spending to the cap.  These retentions cost the team nothing in terms of actual dollars.

 

I'm not sure, but I believe those deals were expiring after the season.  Here that team would be retaining 3 seasons of Boeser for a 4th rounder.

 

Again, I'm not sure but I believe max retention is 50% total.  So the Canucks would have to retain 25% and the 3rd party another 25%.  Otherwise that's 75% retention.  Again I don't know the rule by heart, but I thought so.

[BigTramFan]

16 minutes ago, timberz21 said:

I'm not sure, but I believe those deals were expiring after the season.  Here that team would be retaining 3 seasons of Boeser for a 4th rounder.

 

Again, I'm not sure but I believe max retention is 50% total.  So the Canucks would have to retain 25% and the 3rd party another 25%.  Otherwise that's 75% retention.  Again I don't know the rule by heart, but I thought so.

You are correct about the fact those deals were expiring contracts, so taking on the cap was worth a lot less than retaining for 3 seasons.

 

If multiple teams are retaining, then more than 50% could be retained on a contract, leaving less than 50% cap for the final destination team.

[mll]

49 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Toronto retained $2.5M on Robin Lehner and got a 5th round pick out of it:  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/robin-lehner

Detroit retained $2.125M on David Savard and got a 4th round pick out of it.  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/david-savard

SJ retained $1.375M on Nick Foligno and got a 4th round pick out of it:  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/nick-foligno

SJ retained $1.125M on Mattias Janmark and got a 5th round pick out of it:  https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/mattias-janmark

 

It won't cost us a 2nd for $2.5M.  The teams that usually do this are not spending to the cap.  These retentions cost the team nothing in terms of actual dollars.

 

 

It's the salary left to pay that mattered in those cases. Those teams had ample deadline cap space (a couple of teams will have over 80M this TDL) and rather than leave it unused they leveraged it to get an additional asset.  Those were all expiring contracts while Boeser has term left.  

 

Teams can only retain on 3 contracts - giving up a slot for 2 more years is going to cost quite a bit because it's going to limit what those teams can do at subsequent TDLs if they are sellers.  It's also considerably more salary than in those examples.

 

You might want to check out this article.  

 

Edited February 1 by mll

[HKSR]

8 minutes ago, mll said:

 

It's the salary left to pay that mattered in those cases. Those teams had deadline cap space and rather than leave it unused they leveraged it to get an additional asset.  Those were all expiring contracts while Boeser has term left.  

 

Teams can only retain on 3 contracts - giving up a slot for more 2 more years is going to cost quite a bit because it's going to limit what those teams can do at subsequent TDL if they are sellers.  

 

You might want to check out this article.  

 

Guess we'll have to wait and see.  Not sure teams that operate way below the cap really care that much about retaining for a couple years.  Could fully understand if they're a bubble team or a team on the cusp of breaking out.  If Boeser is the issue, we do this with Myers and get a nice haul from him instead.  Very low actual cash, and final year of his contract.  The perfect scenario for this kind of transaction.

[mll]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Guess we'll have to wait and see.  Not sure teams that operate way below the cap really care that much about retaining for a couple years.  Could fully understand if they're a bubble team or a team on the cusp of breaking out.  If Boeser is the issue, we do this with Myers and get a nice haul from him instead.  Very low actual cash, and final year of his contract.  The perfect scenario for this kind of transaction.

Myers after his bonus payment.  The return to trade him at 50% might off-set the cost to involve a 3rd team.  Vancouver would then be able to clear his full cap hit without retaining. 

 

Armstrong in Arizona is certainly looking to leverage his cap space - he's looking for high draft picks.  He did a recent podcast where he talked of how cap space had a lot of value right now.  The cap could also continue to be tight with the Sinclair bankruptcy news.

 

It's not just cap space but also the cost.  Part of media believes that the Dickinson trade was because ownership didn't want to pay that kind of money in the AHL.  Benning said the hardest discussion he had with ownership was waiving Gagner given his salary.

 

[HKSR]

13 minutes ago, mll said:

Myers after his bonus payment.  The return to trade him at 50% might off-set the cost to involve a 3rd team.  Vancouver would then be able to clear his full cap hit without retaining. 

 

Armstrong in Arizona is certainly looking to leverage his cap space - he's looking for high draft picks.  He did a recent podcast where he talked of how cap space had a lot of value right now.  The cap could also continue to be tight with the Sinclair bankruptcy news.

 

It's not just cap space but also the cost.  Part of media believes that the Dickinson trade was because ownership didn't want to pay that kind of money in the AHL.  Benning said the hardest discussion he had with ownership was waiving Gagner given his salary.

 

Yeah Myers might be perfect for this arrangement.  I'm pretty confident we'll be rid of Boeser and Myers contracts by next season without anything significant in terms of sweeteners or retention.