Wayne Gretzky Talks About Nearly Signing With The Canucks

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, MattWN. said:

100%, but on the flip side... we don't get the West Coast Express in the 2000s in that scenario, and we don't draft the Sedins so we miss out on 2011.

 

Yeah, butterfly effect for sure

[Boudrias]

14 hours ago, McBackup said:

How many times do we need to poke at this scab?

You pick until it bleeds again! 

Mogilney, Bure and Wayner on one line! I will dream the dream again tonight! 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Boudrias

[Kevin Biestra]

10 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Paul Reinhart (just as bad seeing an ex-Lamer in a Canucks jersey) had a great impact in the limited time he spent here.

 

We actually had a great history with former Flames around that time...  Tim Hunter, Dana Murzyn, Steve Bozek, Mel Bridgman, Dan Quinn, Brian Glynn.

 

[Kevin Biestra]

19 hours ago, nucklehead said:

makes no difference to me. i hated seeing any ex olier in a canucks jersey. messier, Tikkanen , even randy gregg. 

 

15 hours ago, GB5 said:

Carson and Gelinas were a couple good ones on the 94 team.

 

Makes no difference to me where they played before as long as they embrace the Canucks and the fans when they are here.

 

I always liked seeing an accomplished player lace it up as a Canuck at some point near the end of his run.  Ryan Walter, Mike Ridley, Mel Bridgman, Peter Zezel, Pit Martin, Peter McNab, Blair MacDonald, (almost) Owen Nolan, etc.  In the case of Walter and Bridgman, I think they might have contributed to the leadership atmosphere of a developing Linden (Randy Gregg as well).  Of course the primary sensei-student lineage was through Stan Smyl but the Canucks had a true surplus of leadership during that 1989 to early 90s period preceding the 1994 Cup run (Tim Hunter, Dave Babych, Harold Snepsts, Doug Lidster, Garth Butcher...plus Igor Larionov).  I don't know if any young Canucks lineup or Canucks leader had such a wealth to draw from during any chapter of Canucks history.

 

The young Smyl had it good (Bobby Schmautz, Ivan Boldirev, Ivan Hlinka, Kevin McCarthy, Dennis Kearns, Darcy Rota, Don Lever, Harold Snepsts, Chris Oddleifson, Pit Martin) but not as good as the young Linden.

 

By contrast we have the current 2022-23 iteration from which Hughes and Pettersson are supposed to have been learning these things.  We have Schenn with a couple Cups as a fifth wheel.  The debate continues about JT Miller's style of leadership.  And I guess OEL and Myers have been around the block.  That's about it.  Guys who stuff might have been learned from instead passed through town leaving a mess in their wake (Nate Schmidt and Loui Eriksson)  Those guys should have been the Mel Bridgmans and Garth Butchers...instead they provided negative value to leadership and culture.  And then to underscore my point young promising players crapped the bed in this culture until they had to go (Virtanen, Juolevi, Gaudette).  I guess they had a brief overlap with Edler and Tanev but I don't know if anything was learned there.

 

 

Oh yeah, I just realized you mentioned Jimmy Carson.  He and Gary Leeman were my two most hopeful reclamation projects of the early 90s (Stephane Morin, a very promising NHL rookie a few years earlier with the Nordiques was another one in 1994).  None of them really got enough icetime to even show if they had anything left though.  Jimmy Carson only played two games in the 1994 run.  But I thought he would have been a good guy to throw out there if injuries like Ronning's wrist kept piling up.  Back to back 100 point seasons and several other decent years...and then he was pretty much done by the age of 25.  Weird how it works out.  He and Luc Robitaille were basically twin rookies for the Kings in 1987 or whenever it was.  The Oilers could just as easily have gotten Robitaille for Gretzky and then who knows how things would have played out.

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[spook007]

On 2/4/2023 at 9:53 AM, McBackup said:

How many times do we need to poke at this scab?

This is the CDC.... loves nothing better, than to re open old wounds...

[Kevin Biestra]

On 2/4/2023 at 1:53 AM, McBackup said:

How many times do we need to poke at this scab?

 

Maybe I'm in the minority but I enjoy exploring hockey history and what ifs...  The 1970 draft coin flip and Gilbert Perreault.

 

Or what if Vladimir Krutov had worked out in 1990...we'd have had him and Larionov and it could have been us instead of the Red Wings with a Russian Five.  Would have just needed to add two guys to them and Bure.  And Alexei Kasatonov could have been acquired relatively easily from the Devils I think.  And that's without trying something more ambitious like Fetisov or Makarov.

 

We gave up Rick Vaive and Bill Derlago at the start of their careers in the early 80s.  Thank goodness it worked out for a year and gave us the 1982 Cup run.  But otherwise that would have been another Cam Neely situation.  Vaive scored 50 goals three seasons in a row for the Leafs and Derlago scored 40.

 

What if Bure had gotten the suspension he probably deserved for the Churla elbow?  Would have screwed us in 1994 the same way the Bertuzzi suspension did in 2003 or so.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[NewbieCanuckFan]

12 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

 

I always liked seeing an accomplished player lace it up as a Canuck at some point near the end of his run.  Ryan Walter, Mike Ridley, Mel Bridgman, Peter Zezel, Pit Martin, Peter McNab, Blair MacDonald, (almost) Owen Nolan, etc.  In the case of Walter and Bridgman, I think they might have contributed to the leadership atmosphere of a developing Linden (Randy Gregg as well).  Of course the primary sensei-student lineage was through Stan Smyl but the Canucks had a true surplus of leadership during that 1989 to early 90s period preceding the 1994 Cup run (Tim Hunter, Dave Babych, Harold Snepsts, Doug Lidster, Garth Butcher...plus Igor Larionov).  I don't know if any young Canucks lineup or Canucks leader had such a wealth to draw from during any chapter of Canucks history.

 

The young Smyl had it good (Bobby Schmautz, Ivan Boldirev, Ivan Hlinka, Kevin McCarthy, Dennis Kearns, Darcy Rota, Don Lever, Harold Snepsts, Chris Oddleifson, Pit Martin) but not as good as the young Linden.

 

By contrast we have the current 2022-23 iteration from which Hughes and Pettersson are supposed to have been learning these things.  We have Schenn with a couple Cups as a fifth wheel.  The debate continues about JT Miller's style of leadership.  And I guess OEL and Myers have been around the block.  That's about it.  Guys who stuff might have been learned from instead passed through town leaving a mess in their wake (Nate Schmidt and Loui Eriksson)  Those guys should have been the Mel Bridgmans and Garth Butchers...instead they provided negative value to leadership and culture.  And then to underscore my point young promising players crapped the bed in this culture until they had to go (Virtanen, Juolevi, Gaudette).  I guess they had a brief overlap with Edler and Tanev but I don't know if anything was learned there.

 

 

Oh yeah, I just realized you mentioned Jimmy Carson.  He and Gary Leeman were my two most hopeful reclamation projects of the early 90s (Stephane Morin, a very promising NHL rookie a few years earlier with the Nordiques was another one in 1994).  None of them really got enough icetime to even show if they had anything left though.  Jimmy Carson only played two games in the 1994 run.  But I thought he would have been a good guy to throw out there if injuries like Ronning's wrist kept piling up.  Back to back 100 point seasons and several other decent years...and then he was pretty much done by the age of 25.  Weird how it works out.  He and Luc Robitaille were basically twin rookies for the Kings in 1987 or whenever it was.  The Oilers could just as easily have gotten Robitaille for Gretzky and then who knows how things would have played out.

 

Often overlooked is just how good a leader Orland Kurtanback (sp?) was for those early Canuck teams.  In fact, he literally willed the team into fighting for a playoff spot that first year; it was until he suffered a major injury that 'the wheels fell off'.  Didn't hurt that he got 'throw em' with the best of them (this was just a few years before the Broad Street Bullies time).

[NewbieCanuckFan]

10 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Maybe I'm in the minority but I enjoy exploring hockey history and what ifs...  The 1970 draft coin flip and Gilbert Perreault (could have been us bringing in Scotty Bowman and going to the final three times right out of the gate).

 

Or what if Vladimir Krutov had worked out in 1990...we'd have had him and Larionov and it could have been us instead of the Red Wings with a Russian Five.  Would have just needed to add two guys to them and Bure.  And Alexei Kasatonov could have been acquired relatively easily from the Devils I think.  And that's without trying something more ambitious like Fetisov or Makarov.

 

We gave up Rick Vaive and Bill Derlago at the start of their careers in the early 80s.  Thank goodness it worked out for a year and gave us the 1982 Cup run.  But otherwise that would have been another Cam Neely situation.  Vaive scored 50 goals three seasons in a row for the Leafs and Derlago scored 40.

 

What if Bure had gotten the suspension he probably deserved for the Churla elbow?  Would have screwed us in 1994 the same way the Bertuzzi suspension did in 2003 or so.

Another often overlooked fact, the first round we also gave up in the Cam Neely trade was the 1987 first round pick.  That was the year Joe Sakic was picked.  Granted out amateur scouts sucked beans (not hard to guess who was around scouting Western Canada for us during this time).

[Kevin Biestra]

7 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Often overlooked is just how good a leader Orland Kurtanback (sp?) was for those early Canuck teams.  In fact, he literally willed the team into fighting for a playoff spot that first year; it was until he suffered a major injury that 'the wheels fell off'.  Didn't hurt that he got 'throw em' with the best of them (this was just a few years before the Broad Street Bullies time).

 

Yeah that 70-71 squad had some leadership out of the gate.  Pat Quinn, Andre Boudrias.  And goalie Charlie Hodge was closer to 40 than 30 but people forget he was close to Hall of Fame good.  Twice he was in the top 5 for the Hart Trophy, twice he was the 2nd best goalie in the league, plus two Vezina trophies by the old criteria.  That was some real stability in the net to get things started...and for decades he and John Garrett were the only goalies in Canuck history to be above .500 for their career with the team.

 

 

 

[EddieVedder]

On 2/4/2023 at 10:35 AM, GB5 said:

Carson and Gelinas were a couple good ones on the 94 team.

 

Makes no difference to me where they played before as long as they embrace the Canucks and the fans when they are here.

Carson was on the 94 team?

[IBatch]

On 2/4/2023 at 1:47 PM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

He played three years with the Rangers before retiring.  He led the league in assists for two of those seasons.  They made the playoffs one year and Gretzky turned it up...he was the NHL's best player those playoffs.  10 goals and 20 points in 15 games...he even regained his goal scoring when it really mattered.

 

And he led the league in assists with the Rangers playing with pretty middling wingers.  Here are the top four wingers on the team that season.  Graves (61 pts), Nicklas Sundstrom (52 pts), Luc Robitaille (48 pts), Alexei Kovalev (35 pts).  Gretzky had 72 assists...more than any winger on the team had points.  25 assists were on the power play, 46 even strength.  46 was one behind Mario Lemieux (47) for the NHL lead in even strength assists, and Lemieux played a full season that year.

 

Gretzky was diminishing...but he was an elite player until his final season.

 

 

 

 

No doubt.   Gretzky at 50% capacity, still paced the best players of that time period and there was so much talent that arrived in the late 80's early 90's.   

 

One thing that isn't in this story is Wayne's book viewpoint.   He went to bed knowing a deal had been reached.  Essentially he was a Canuck in his mind already.    And wanted to play in Vancouver.    Orca entertainment's brain trust ruined that for us.    All he wanted to do was talk about it with his wife.   And they made the ultimatum, and even after it was made Wayne said he hoped they'd finish it up in the morning after he'd gone over it.   Canucks sent out a fax to all the teams they no longer would be interested in signing Gretzky - that's what he woke up too.   Then the Rangers contacted him. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by IBatch

[Kevin Biestra]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

No doubt.   Gretzky at 50% capacity, still paced the best players of that time period and there was so much talent that arrived in the late 80's early 90's.   

 

One thing that isn't in this story is Wayne's book viewpoint.   He went to bed knowing a deal had been reached.  Essentially he was a Canuck in his mind already.    And wanted to play in Vancouver.    Orca entertainment's brain trust ruined that for us.    All he wanted to do was talk about it with his wife.   And they made the ultimatum, and even after it was made Wayne said he hoped they'd finish it up in the morning after he'd gone over it.   Canucks sent out a fax to all the teams they no longer would be interested in signing Gretzky - that's what he woke up too.   Then the Rangers contacted him. 

 

Lol at Stan McCammon issuing a league wide fax that he isn't interested in signing Wayne Gretzky.  Yeah I think around the same time I issued a press release saying I wasn't interested in banging Cindy Crawford...to similar results.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[Westcoasting]

59 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Lol at Stan McCammon issuing a league wide fax that he isn't interested in signing Wayne Gretzky.  Yeah I think around the same time I issued a press release saying I wasn't interested in banging Cindy Crawford...to similar results.

 

 

That would have been a tragedy for you to think that way!!

[Westcoasting]

On 2/5/2023 at 3:47 AM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Maybe I'm in the minority but I enjoy exploring hockey history and what ifs...  The 1970 draft coin flip and Gilbert Perreault (could have been us bringing in Scotty Bowman and going to the final three times right out of the gate).

 

Or what if Vladimir Krutov had worked out in 1990...we'd have had him and Larionov and it could have been us instead of the Red Wings with a Russian Five.  Would have just needed to add two guys to them and Bure.  And Alexei Kasatonov could have been acquired relatively easily from the Devils I think.  And that's without trying something more ambitious like Fetisov or Makarov.

 

We gave up Rick Vaive and Bill Derlago at the start of their careers in the early 80s.  Thank goodness it worked out for a year and gave us the 1982 Cup run.  But otherwise that would have been another Cam Neely situation.  Vaive scored 50 goals three seasons in a row for the Leafs and Derlago scored 40.

 

What if Bure had gotten the suspension he probably deserved for the Churla elbow?  Would have screwed us in 1994 the same way the Bertuzzi suspension did in 2003 or so.

I was super excited for Krutov back then, yeah what could have been!

[Kevin Biestra]

25 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

I was super excited for Krutov back then, yeah what could have been!

 

Seriously, that Larionov Krutov signing was as big and outside the box thinking as the deal to draft the Sedins together.  It should have been a great success and the stuff of NHL legend.  Instead it just didn't work out.  But it was a great idea.  If we had gotten 100% Larionov instead of 70% and 100% Krutov instead of...maybe 30%...who knows, that might have been all we needed to beat the Kings in those early 90s series and the sky would have been the limit.  Not to mention we might not have run into problems with Nedved (much of which began when he wanted Gretzky's autograph 10 seconds after losing a series to the Kings).