[DEBATE] JT Miller or Bo Horvat? Who you got?

[Elias Pettersson]

So, now that we know all of the details of the contracts, which player are you taking?  Miller or BO?  Or neither?  Let the debate begin!!!   

[Elias Pettersson]

@-Vintage Canuck-  Can you move this to the Canucks discussion, I screwed up?  Thank you...

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

@-Vintage Canuck-  Can you move this to the Canucks discussion, I screwed up?  Thank you...

Done.

[combover]

Trade em both 

 

 

if I had to keep one it would be the better more complete player so easily horvat.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by combover

[-AJ-]

Given the contracts doled out, Miller's is better. Neither are great deals though, honestly.

[Devron]

Miller needs to go too 

[Slegr]

Honestly, if Tocchet can have a system where Miller plays better defensively than what Bruce allowed, JT Miller is better dollars. He has better speed, is more offensively dynamic and had more pushback, as well as passion. Sure he get whiney at times, but I’d rather have someone who whines a bit and wears real passion on his sleeve than Bo Horvat who displays no passion whatsoever. Horvat has been overrated in terms of his two-way game - his best +\- year is a +3, and he’s played like 7 seasons. He’s not as naturally skilled, and while he did become a beast in the play-ins / playoffs, he hasn’t shown enough of that to warrant the contract that he got.

[24K PureCool]

Both should have been traded.

[tas]

miller seems like he took more of a discount coming off a 99 pt season. 

[Phil_314]

5 minutes ago, combover said:

if I had to keep one it would be the better more complete player so easily Horvat.

Exactly this.  Miller's laziness this season and diva attitude also really turned me off to him.  Some might chalk it up to be passion but when all JT does is talk but doesn't back it up with his play then I'd rather not have that.  Bubble playoffs aside, Horvat isn't exactly living up to the "Ryan O'Reilly" comparable at his draft, but if I were to build a team up the middle, I'd rather have defensive stability and relatively better 200-foot game so Petey can take the primary matchups whereas Bo takes the secondary (I also don't really trust Miller to center his own line given his defensive lapses).    

[Nuckin Kingsly]

13 minutes ago, combover said:

Trade em both 

 

 

if I had to keep one it would be the better more complete player so easily horvat.

 

 

 

 

 

Could have stopped after your first sentence. 
 

Horvat definitely isn’t “easily the better more complete player”

 

horvat pros vs miller - Faceoffs, ability to handle media, being nice, level headedness

 

flaws- horvat can be soft, doesn’t drive play, needs playmaking wingers around him

 

miller vs horvat - better skater, playmaker, hockey iq (reading the play and creating to be specific), passing, compete, hitting, fire, ability to make those around him better, leadership. 
 

flaws - I’ll timed outbursts, sloppy changes at times, huge brain farts with his passing almost once a game 
 

Close to equals- shot

 

id maybe trade both, I was content with miller gone. But he’s my fave Canuck, and am happy he stays over bo 

[KirkSave]

I like Miller's game better because he plays with more of an edge than Bo. He is a winger, who can play any situation and take draws as needed. PK, PP.

I am hoping now that Bo is gone. Miller can fill that void in his own way but also come to the understanding under Tocchet's guidance, that he needs to reign in his on ice antics (stick smashing, swearing) and try to let his play do the talking. 

 

I liked his contract from the outset but I was fooled into thinking the roster heading into the season would do some serious damage (challenge for the div lead). Now that we have a better idea as to what this team is and how much work is still to do, JT doesn't fit our timeline. If we can find a taker, I think Alvin should consider moving him out too. But then that would leave us super weak down the middle, now that JT will be our 2C here (so it seems).

[RWJC]

Neither. I would actually have preferred to save that money and dole it out on a long term deal for a young prospect we may have obtained by trading both. (Eg. a Tage Thompson  type deal).
Alllllll long term cap dollars from now on should be reserved for EP and younger (with a real future) and/or a top pairing RHD

[Coconuts]

Trade them both. Bo got too much money despite being a better fit age-wise and Miller doesn't fit the timeline of what's looking more and more like a rebuild, regardless of which label management wants to apply to the process. 

 

We'd be better off having gotten returns and cap space for both players imo. I highly doubt we'll be anywhere near contention over the remainder of Miller's top years. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Coconuts

[FinchBird]

Take JT every day of the week and twice on Sunday, Bo bailed on this team after Markstrom and Tanev left. Country Club has changed its captain, who wants the brass ring. Ownership needs to have a long look in the mirror!! Keep selling high!

[Rush17]

I'd take JT but his lack of commitment to all areas of the game is disturbing. Personally I would be excited if we traded him too but we do need players in our top 6. Moving quality out isn't ideal if we are actually trying to win in the next 2-3 years.

 

If we opt to rebuild then I'd ship him out after we get him rolling again.   

[Rush17]

Petey and Quinn couldn't establish themselves as leaders with Bo here. So it's obvious bo had to go for that reason alone. Imo. 

 

It's like having Kane, Toews and Keith being stuck behind someone slightly older, not as good, and who had control over your room. 

 

I saw bo getting moved out down the road the moment they made him captain. It was always going to be peteys team. I got a lot of flack for that opinion but I knew it would eventually come to pass. 

 

Perhaps some actual team success would have prevented that. But that didn't happen; so here we are.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

I'd take JT but his lack of commitment to all areas of the game is disturbing. Personally I would be excited if we traded him too but we do need players in our top 6. Moving quality out isn't ideal if we are actually trying to win in the next 2-3 years.

 

If we opt to rebuild then I'd ship him out after we get him rolling again.   

I agree.  If BO is at $8.5 million then Miller's contract is definitely moveable if he is at 70+ points.  He has a NMC however, so they would have to make a decision before July 1.

[ilduce39]

I voted to trade both but obviously ownership didn’t want to go that far down the rebuild path. 
 

As it stands, if Miller can hold his own as a 2C with some responsible two-way wingers we could be coming out ahead in the top 6.  Still a need to find a good 3C and fix the D, though.  Likely at least another year to get that done if it’s even possible.

[Junkyard Dog]

Trade them both. 16.5M can be utilized well for a rebuilding team. Especially if cap stays flat.