[Poll/Discussion] Do you buyout OEL?

[kanucks25]

7 hours ago, Tank4Bedard said:

And we gave a top 10 pick to take him :D 

Thanks Benning.

[GB5]

1 hour ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

You can pick out the year of buyout on CF.

Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT (VAN)	CAP HIT (ARI)
2025-26	$5,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$1,750,000	$1,750,000	$3,500,000	$4,180,000	$570,000
2026-27	$5,250,000	$8,250,000	$0	$1,750,000	$1,750,000	$3,500,000	$4,180,000	$570,000
2027-28	$0	$0	$0	$1,750,000	$1,750,000	-$1,750,000	$1,540,000	$210,000
2028-29	$0	$0	$0	$1,750,000	$1,750,000	-$1,750,000	$1,540,000	$210,000
TOTAL	$10,500,000	$16,500,000	$0	$7,000,000	$7,000,000	$3,500,000	$11,440,000 (88%)	$1,560,000 (12%)

Thanks for this,

 

Reconfirms my suggestion to give him two more years and then buy him out, or maybe OEL retires because the really big big paydays will have already been made. The team will remain uncompetitive during this time frame anyway.

 

Going from a $8 million cap hit to a $4 million cap hit is a decent savings and the subsequent dead cap for two years is manageable.

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, GB5 said:

Thanks for this,

 

Reconfirms my suggestion to give him two more years and then buy him out, or maybe OEL retires because the really big big paydays will have already been made. The team will remain uncompetitive during this time frame anyway.

 

Going from a $8 million cap hit to a $4 million cap hit is a decent savings and the subsequent dead cap for two years is manageable.

but you have to replace OEL's mins and role, which will be expensive.......on top of his buyout cap hit

[rekker]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I'm not too concerned about Guenther 

I like him. But the list of players that killed it at World Juniors, and then did nothing at the NHL level is a real thing. Time will tell. 

[stawns]

Just now, rekker said:

I like him. But the list of players that killed it at World Juniors, and then did nothing at the NHL level is a real thing. Time will tell. 

I don't mind him, but other than special teams, he was pretty unnoticeable at the WJHC and I don't think he'll be anything special in the NHL.  That said, I have nothing against him, I hope he has a good career

[ToTellTheTruth]

3 minutes ago, GB5 said:

Thanks for this,

 

Reconfirms my suggestion to give him two more years and then buy him out, or maybe OEL retires because the really big big paydays will have already been made. The team will remain uncompetitive during this time frame anyway.

 

Going from a $8 million cap hit to a $4 million cap hit is a decent savings and the subsequent dead cap for two years is manageable.

But then retaining 50% for the next 4 years and having another asset is better. Then it is over.

And who knows OEL at 4 mil might be attractive to other GM's who know a lot of his failure here is due to the surrounding players. Even Doughty looked like crud last 4 years with the surrounding cast he had.

[kanucks25]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

I can't think of a dumber move.  So I guess they'll be doing it.

I can. Trading for OEL originally.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

its up to the coaches and scouts to estimate what OELs value is and make a decision if his value is above 3.75m a year then it might be wise to keep him... if not then we can think of other options.

 

if you must find a way to trade him you go with that option... even at 50% retained its less more cap savings then buying him out. at 3.75m I would love having OEL.... he is a very good pp2 defender... although i believe pp2 time is the least valuable time of all special teams. I would much rather spend cap on a pk specialist then a pp2 specialist

[Wanless]

The real question is can we get more out of a 5 million dollar player

 

Boudreaus style has never favoured defense numbers, hopefully Gonchar and Foote can come up with a system that can put the D in a position to succeed

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, Wanless said:

The real question is can we get more out of a 5 million dollar player

 

Boudreaus style has never favoured defense numbers, hopefully Gonchar and Foote can come up with a system that can put the D in a position to succeed

Years ago Vvc drew Mtl in the SC play-offs. I believe they won one game. After that every time the puck came into the defensive zone they simply iced it. We had a good face off guy and man did tthe flying frenchmmen get frustarted 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Fred65

[Coconuts]

[GB5]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

but you have to replace OEL's mins and role, which will be expensive.......on top of his buyout cap hit

OEL's minutes can be replaced by committee. He is around 20 minutes per game and can't be relied on for more.

 

The problem is that Hughes is getting over played and OEL cannot pick up the slack over the long haul of the season so he needs to move on

[DSVII]

Since I'm on team rebuild  nope. Not unless we hit three consecutive elc superstars to make up the cap inefficiency.

[coolboarder]

Yes, I would buy OEL out just for this offseason buyout opportunity for a huge savings but at the cost of longer cap hit but cap will go up anyways.  If we wait until next season off-season, then it's a bit too late for that.  If there is a real saving to the cost, it is this yea if we want to trade or acquire a UFA signing.  

[DownUndaCanuck]

I made this thread a while ago as a joke but now I'm concerned management might actually do it. Problem is, we have to replace his 20 minutes with a solid defenceman. There's some UFAs out there like Graves, Gavrikov etc. who will probably command 5M at a minimum, so then OEL's buyout + that 5M has to be a bloody good replacement on just OEL. The concern is during his 4M buyout years, is Gavrikov worth 9M? 

 

I think to trade his contract we'd probably have to spend a 1st round pick ironically.

[RU SERIOUS]

They will need to sweeten the pot with a better player + retain salary and maybe throw in a later round draft pick, but they should try everything possible to dump him.  He and Myers both MUST GO ASAP.  They are liability #1 & #2 on this team! 

 

Benning really messed this team up for years to come!   Can't believe there are people roaming this planet that actually supported Benning!

Edited February 7, 2023 by RU SERIOUS

[NMHockey]

On 2/7/2023 at 2:37 AM, RU SERIOUS said:

They will need to sweeten the pot with a better player + retain salary and maybe throw in a later round draft pick, but they should try everything possible to dump him.  He and Myers both MUST GO ASAP.  They are liability #1 & #2 on this team! 

 

Benning really messed this team up for years to come!   Can't believe there are people roaming this planet that actually supported Benning!

Benning did not entirely mess this team up.

For all the overly-aggressive UFA signings and

mis-judgements in scouting he made. He also drafted and left us with Pettersson, Hughes,

Podkolzin, Boeser, Demko, Hoglander, Klimovich, Woo, Jurmo, Brisebois, Lockwood, Rathbone, Truscott, Silovs, McDonough, Persson. (And no do not say this was mainly Judd Bracketts work or that Benning wanted Cody Glass over Elias Pettersson. GMs have the final say on draft picks after all the informatjon and opinions come forth. Not to mention Bennings background in hockey-operations started with scouting.

 

Traded for J.T. Miller (Benning is not the one who signed him to an overly-long 7 year deal at $8,000,000 AAV). He basically got us a warrior competitor and 99 point power forward for a European runaway goaltender, a very low 1st, and a 3rd.

 

Traded Juolevi for Juulsen and Lammikko.

Lammikko was a very hard-working and serviceable 4th liner for us last season and Juulsen is one of the Assistant Captains in Abbotsford plus is a young RHD who still has some NHL potential and has filled in well for us when needed.

 

Traded Dahlen who was an immature and one-dimensional kid that ran off to a 5 year deal in Sweden after giving the Sharks 2/3 of a lackluster performance season. Benning turned that into a bigger, younger, more-rounded, character right-handed center who's developing very well in Abbotsford right now in Linus Karlsson.

 

Traded with Tampa Bay to get Spencer Martin for literally nothing as TBL wanted his contract spot and didn't realize they had a big, young goaltender with raw upside. He's been shaky this year but so has his coverage in front of him and for $762,500 a season he's been great depth in goal and backed up Demko very well last season when Halak couldnt cut it.

 

Benning signed Luke Schenn for free and dirt cheap not to mention he originally got L.Schenn in his first Canucks stint by getting Anaheim to make him the contract throw-in along with a 7th Round Pick for

Michael Del Zotto (who was also a free UFA).

Also signed Burroughs who's been a hometown hero, gritty and serviceable 7th D-man that's chipped in with a handful of goals, always hits aggressively, and fights anyone.

Dries, Dowling, Stevens, and Keeper were also all underrated UFA signings that have been instrumental in the support and development of our top prospects down there. (Stevens wears an A as well). Dries has helped up in Vancouver the most and fills his role well and throws all his weight at anyone, wins faceoffs quite well, hustles, and has

13 points in 43 games with us.

 

So no. Benning did not mess this team up.

What messed this team up and will continue to mess it up is our toxic fanbase continuing to financially empower a very morally-flawed man named Francesco Aquilini. Who treats people and his employees extremely unfairly and not only sticks his hands in hockey matters that he has zero clue about. But him and his goofy brothers entire presence makes everyone around them feel un-easy and improperly pressured. This leads to panic moves from management,  management relaying Aquilinis pressure onto coaching staff, and then coaching staff onto the players. Sound crazy? You tell me what's gone on the last ten years. 

 

Head Coaches

Alain Vigneault

John Tortorella

(& essentially Mike Sullivan for a bit)

Willie Desjardins

Travis Green

Bruce Boudreau

Rick Tocchet

 

Presidents

Mike Gillis

Trevor Linden

Jim Rutherford

(not to mention the revolving door of other hockey-operations staff members coming and going).

General Managers

Mike Gillis

Jim Benning

Patrik Allvin

 

Six to seven coaches (possibly seven to eight in under ten years at this rate), three presidents, three GMs, constant cap-space debt, one of the classiest individuals this organization has ever seen in Linden is stabbed in the back for speaking the truth and trying to rebuild the team. Next a finally offensive-minded coach and heartfelt gentleman who was an incredible person to our young players and team overall... is brought to tears from the teams handling of him. All during the Canucks promotions of "Mental Health Matters".. nice one Canucks.... Then the heart of the team the last five seasons and a Linden-class 2.0 plus great power forward and playoff performer in Bo Horvat is slapped in the face with a $5.125 Million AAV offer and then kicked out the door (the return was nice but re-signing Bo and keeping him where he was adored and needed would have been nicer).

 

So all-in-all that just about sums it up... back to what I said about our toxic fanbase supporting Aquilini financially.. Our fanbase is not helping the situation. The amount of "fans" I see that don't know anything about hockey and have never skated in their life; complain and turn on a player at the drop of a hat is alarming. If they had any brains they would realize what burning your own city, jumping on players and goaltenders and being an overly-critical circus show really does. It can destroy any chance of not only big UFAs or trade targets coming here but could even chase hometown heroes like Bedard out of town. (Yes even that. Nothing would come as a surprise at this point.) 
Throwing jerseys on the ice not only does not send a message to ownership as long as you're buying tickets. But it looks horrible to any potential new player like I said. Having the opposing team tossing your teams jersey back over the glass is beyond embarassing (Brian Dumoulin did this in a game here). Also situations like the one with Pettersson a year ago when the kid is out there still recovering from a nasty wrist injury and people are calling for us to waive him if need be. Now they want him as Captain once he's healthy and flying out there?  LOL.

This city, this fanbase, this media coverage.. all need to give their heads a shake because that's part of the earth-scorching change this organization needs. Plus like I mentioned. The Aquilinis MUST sell the team. I can confirm they are terrible people. I have a family friend who oversees all the immigrant workers on the big farms that produce all the vegetables you see in big stores. This persons boss works with the Aquilinis and so this person I know has been around them. The Aquilinis do more than just meddle the management but they dictate what exact music plays at Rogers Arena and do not care to play what the fans want or what is trendy.

They don't care how anyone feels, what anyone wants, what different opinions or people they can hear or connect with.

They care only about money and winning. They tried to pull the rug out from under immigrant workers on their farm and were ordered to pay them owed wages of nearly $200,000 total. They made at least 20 immigrant working women cram into a tiny space and share two bathrooms between them and wouldnt even pay for an extra portable toilet. I am not making up or exaggerating any of this. These are the people overseeing our beloved Vancouver Canucks. So... before we lose another Linden, Horvat, Boudreau, etc and continue to not win Stanley Cups... Please in Heavens name could a new owner buy this team and one that has some morals and actual care for people.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Underdog7

[RU SERIOUS]

Q: Do you buyout OEL?

 

A: 

[RU SERIOUS]

On 2/6/2023 at 10:30 AM, Wanless said:

 The real question is can we get more out of a 5 million dollar player?

Is this possible?????  Then that's the answer to your question!

[Alflives]

On 2/9/2023 at 3:20 AM, Underdog7 said:

Benning did not entirely mess this team up.

For all the overly-aggressive UFA signings and

mis-judgements in scouting he made. He also drafted and left us with Pettersson, Hughes,

Podkolzin, Boeser, Demko, Hoglander, Klimovich, Woo, Jurmo, Brisebois, Lockwood, Rathbone, Truscott, Silovs, McDonough, Persson. (And no do not say this was mainly Judd Bracketts work or that Benning wanted Cody Glass over Elias Pettersson. GMs have the final say on draft picks after all the informatjon and opinions come forth. Not to mention Bennings background in hockey-operations started with scouting.

 

Traded for J.T. Miller (Benning is not the one who signed him to an overly-long 7 year deal at $8,000,000 AAV). He basically got us a warrior competitor and 99 point power forward for a European runaway goaltender, a very low 1st, and a 3rd.

 

Traded Juolevi for Juulsen and Lammikko.

Lammikko was a very hard-working and serviceable 4th liner for us last season and Juulsen is one of the Assistant Captains in Abbotsford plus is a young RHD who still has some NHL potential and has filled in well for us when needed.

 

Traded Dahlen who was an immature and one-dimensional kid that ran off to a 5 year deal in Sweden after giving the Sharks 2/3 of a lackluster performance season. Benning turned that into a bigger, younger, more-rounded, character right-handed center who's developing very well in Abbotsford right now in Linus Karlsson.

 

Traded with Tampa Bay to get Spencer Martin for literally nothing as TBL wanted his contract spot and didn't realize they had a big, young goaltender with raw upside. He's been shaky this year but so has his coverage in front of him and for $762,500 a season he's been great depth in goal and backed up Demko very well last season when Halak couldnt cut it.

 

Benning signed Luke Schenn for free and dirt cheap not to mention he originally got L.Schenn in his first Canucks stint by getting Anaheim to make him the contract throw-in along with a 7th Round Pick for

Michael Del Zotto (who was also a free UFA).

Also signed Burroughs who's been a hometown hero, gritty and serviceable 7th D-man that's chipped in with a handful of goals, always hits aggressively, and fights anyone.

Dries, Dowling, Stevens, and Keeper were also all underrated UFA signings that have been instrumental in the support and development of our top prospects down there. (Stevens wears an A as well). Dries has helped up in Vancouver the most and fills his role well and throws all his weight at anyone, wins faceoffs quite well, hustles, and has

13 points in 43 games with us.

 

So no. Benning did not mess this team up.

What messed this team up and will continue to mess it up is our toxic fanbase continuing to financially empower a very morally-flawed man named Francesco Aquilini. Who treats people and his employees extremely unfairly and not only sticks his hands in hockey matters that he has zero clue about. But him and his goofy brothers entire presence makes everyone around them feel un-easy and improperly pressured. This leads to panic moves from management,  management relaying Aquilinis pressure onto coaching staff, and then coaching staff onto the players. Sound crazy? You tell me what's gone on the last ten years. 

 

Head Coaches

Alain Vigneault

John Tortorella

(& essentially Mike Sullivan for a bit)

Willie Desjardins

Travis Green

Bruce Boudreau

Rick Tocchet

 

Presidents

Mike Gillis

Trevor Linden

Jim Rutherford

(not to mention the revolving door of other hockey-operations staff members coming and going).

General Managers

Mike Gillis

Jim Benning

Patrik Allvin

 

Six to seven coaches (possibly seven to eight in under ten years at this rate), three presidents, three GMs, constant cap-space debt, one of the classiest individuals this organization has ever seen in Linden is stabbed in the back for speaking the truth and trying to rebuild the team. Next a finally offensive-minded coach and heartfelt gentleman who was an incredible person to our young players and team overall... is brought to tears from the teams handling of him. All during the Canucks promotions of "Mental Health Matters".. nice one Canucks.... Then the heart of the team the last five seasons and a Linden-class 2.0 plus great power forward and playoff performer in Bo Horvat is slapped in the face with a $5.125 Million AAV offer and then kicked out the door (the return was nice but re-signing Bo and keeping him where he was adored and needed would have been nicer).

 

So all-in-all that just about sums it up... back to what I said about our toxic fanbase supporting Aquilini financially.. Our fanbase is not helping the situation. The amount of "fans" I see that don't know anything about hockey and have never skated in their life; complain and turn on a player at the drop of a hat is alarming. If they had any brains they would realize what burning your own city, jumping on players and goaltenders and being an overly-critical circus show really does. It can destroy any chance of not only big UFAs or trade targets coming here but could even chase hometown heroes like Bedard out of town. (Yes even that. Nothing would come as a surprise at this point.) 
Throwing jerseys on the ice not only does not send a message to ownership as long as you're buying tickets. But it looks horrible to any potential new player like I said. Having the opposing team tossing your teams jersey back over the glass is beyond embarassing (Brian Dumoulin did this in a game here). Also situations like the one with Pettersson a year ago when the kid is out there still recovering from a nasty wrist injury and people are calling for us to waive him if need be. Now they want him as Captain once he's healthy and flying out there?  LOL.

This city, this fanbase, this media coverage.. all need to give their heads a shake because that's part of the earth-scorching change this organization needs. Plus like I mentioned. The Aquilinis MUST sell the team. I can confirm they are terrible people. I have a family friend who oversees all the immigrant workers on the big farms that produce all the vegetables you see in big stores. This persons boss works with the Aquilinis and so this person I know has been around them. The Aquilinis do more than just meddle the management but they dictate what exact music plays at Rogers Arena and do not care to play what the fans want or what is trendy.

They don't care how anyone feels, what anyone wants, what different opinions or people they can hear or connect with.

They care only about money and winning. They tried to pull the rug out from under immigrant workers on their farm and were ordered to pay them owed wages of nearly $200,000 total. They made at least 20 immigrant working women cram into a tiny space and share two bathrooms between them and wouldnt even pay for an extra portable toilet. I am not making up or exaggerating any of this. These are the people overseeing our beloved Vancouver Canucks. So... before we lose another Linden, Horvat, Boudreau, etc and continue to not win Stanley Cups... Please in Heavens name could a new owner buy this team and one that has some morals and actual care for people.

 

The current ownership bought the team when Nonis was GM. They meddle for sure. But they were meddling during the Great Gillis teams too.