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Let's call a spade a spade. This d is and has been bad for a long time. It's time to address it.

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Canuckfanforlife82

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I know they have tried to fix it but other than Hughes, Schenn and Bear (I say Schenn because at this stage in his career he should be a bottom pairing d) the D has and continues to be the main problem on this team. Nothing has been addressed and really can't without retaining salary or a buyout. I know it feels like for me they are stuck. I don't get how they address it. Fringe d just won't cut it. They can say that the players around our top players are the problem but we all know it's the less than mediocre d. It's going to take a while to fix it. I suggest they get Livingstone. Should be at the top of their list. Then build through the draft. They really need to retain salary on trades and buyout some players. No easy fix here.

Edited by Canuckfanforlife82
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  • Canuckfanforlife82 changed the title to Let's call a spade a spade. This d is and has been bad for a long time. It's time to address it.
13 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I think you might be the first person that has claimed we need to fix our defense.

 

It's really a great idea, someone should contact Allvin ASAP and let him know.

No but I am tired of hearing how management thinks it's the players around the core. We need to have more than one core dman do we not? I am just reading what everyone is saying about the team. A lot about Miller, Boeser, Garland. Offense isn't the problem. It's the d. Do they need to play better sure but without a stable d, It won't matter. Blame needs to be put where we all know the problems lie. Two years now and no real change. I get it. It's a tough thing to fix but it's their job. No more excuses. Figure it out.

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5 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

I think nearly everyone has been calling a spade a spade for a while now.

 

 

Really, management didn't. I am talking about when Rutherford spoke to the media and said there needed to be big changes in his last press conference. Just said players around the core need to be fixed. Yes in the past they said they have tried but they never said anything about the d and it should be at the top of the list. I guess I am just getting impatient with how slowly it's being changed. 

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It sounds like it has a lot to do with structure and rules to play by. The team isn't playing very good D.

 

Tocchet just got to VAN so it'll take a little time before the team gets on board. 

 

I'd still like to see a trade or two though.

 

Schenn - TDL (don't want to trade him, but the return might be pretty good)

Myers - Off-season

 

I think they're stuck with OEL, unless JR trades the NYI 1st to rid them of OEL

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1 minute ago, NUCKER67 said:

It sounds like it has a lot to do with structure and rules to play by. The team isn't playing very good D.

 

Tocchet just got to VAN so it'll take a little time before the team gets on board. 

 

I'd still like to see a trade or two though.

 

Schenn - TDL (don't want to trade him, but the return might be pretty good)

Myers - Off-season

 

I think they're stuck with OEL, unless JR trades the NYI 1st to rid them of OEL

Oh god no. We need the pick. Crazy to think that Benning couldn't see how bad of an idea it was to trade for him at the time. Happy he is gone but he sure left a mess.

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I'll say that my biggest issue with our defense is the system; forwards aren't helping out, dmen are making poor decisions, players are cheating out of our own zone, the battle level is excruciatingly low. 

 

When we were successful in 2011, it was often documented how prolific we were at chipping the puck out into the neutral zone, and recovering it. That does 2 things; makes it less likely we cough the puck up at our own blue line (I'd argue is our biggest weakness), sends the play forward without having to rely on Myers' or OEL's first pass, which are so horrendous that they usually result in an icing.

 

So all in all, it's on the system, not the players. The players aren't amazing either, don't get me wrong. 

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Problems is, top defenseman (especially RHD) like Pietrangelo don't come on the market every year.  So if you want to hit a homerun you need 3 things to happens, 1- that type of D needs to be available via UFA, 2- you need the cap space to sign that type of defenseman, 3- you need these two first things to happen the same summer.

 

Otherwise, you need develop your own Defenseman and in that regard, we have both been one of the worst developing franchise in the past decade and we've given away countless picks that could've turned out to be a decent top 3/4 defenseman eventually.

 

What you are left with is a desperate team that wants to improve a position, which leads to that team to overpaying/overvaluing a player like Myers when he hits the market as one of the top available option of a weak field.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I'll say that my biggest issue with our defense is the system; forwards aren't helping out, dmen are making poor decisions, players are cheating out of our own zone, the battle level is excruciatingly low. 

 

When we were successful in 2011, it was often documented how prolific we were at chipping the puck out into the neutral zone, and recovering it. That does 2 things; makes it less likely we cough the puck up at our own blue line (I'd argue is our biggest weakness), sends the play forward without having to rely on Myers' or OEL's first pass, which are so horrendous that they usually result in an icing.

 

So all in all, it's on the system, not the players. The players aren't amazing either, don't get me wrong. 

Ya we need at least one more amazing RHD player on that backend. At least to move in the direction of being decent. A simple system change won't be enough.

Edited by Canuckfanforlife82
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I think management were flawed in their thinking. I recall pre season Allvin waxing poetically about Poolman. I'm listening and thinking wow have I missed some thing. IMO he was the first to go. So overall and why they signed forwards rather than D'men dduring the summer was they misudged what we had

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I'm always surprised that when people focus on a team's core, they include about 2-3 forwards, 1 defenceman and sometimes a goalie. 

 

No surprise that the Cup winning cores consisted of two great defencemen like Keith and Seabrook, Hedman and Cernak, Pietrangelo and Parayko etc. 

 

We focus on Hughes but he's half the defenceman any of those stars are, we're ways off. If we want to be taken seriously in the future, Hughes has to be our 2nd best defenceman. No team wins a cup without a Norris-worthy candidate and as good as Hughes is, he's simply not big and strong enough to be a playoff Hedman-like warrior.

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Just now, Fred65 said:

I think management were flawed in their thinking. I recall pre season Allvin waxing poetically about Poolman. I'm listening and thinking wow have I missed some thing. IMO he was the first to go. So overall and why they signed forwards rather than D'men dduring the summer was they misudged what we had

Ya same. As soon as they said well we are hoping a strong season from Poolman I knew they never have seen him play. As well as the hope for our dmen to play better. They are who we thought they were. Lol

 

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10 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Really, management didn't. I am talking about when Rutherford spoke to the media and said there needed to be big changes in his last press conference. Just said players around the core need to be fixed. Yes in the past they said they have tried but they never said anything about the d and it should be at the top of the list. I guess I am just getting impatient with how slowly it's being changed. 

They have to know how bad our D is. I think it's just the hardest area of a team to fix, with a scarcity of good available defensemen, particularly on the right side, combined with some of the awful contracts the team is saddled with. I'm impatient too, but I think we're 2 years out from possibly having even a mid-pack defense core, which hopefully is good enough if we can maintain a decent scoring pace and get better goaltending.

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2 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

They have to know how bad our D is. I think it's just the hardest area of a team to fix, with a scarcity of good available defensemen, particularly on the right side, combined with some of the awful contracts the team is saddled with. I'm impatient too, but I think we're 2 years out from possibly having even a mid-pack defense core, which hopefully is good enough if we can maintain a decent scoring pace and get better goaltending.

I really hope so. I guess they can only really do something until they move money out. 
 

Right now it's like well what did you expect?

 

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