[Proposal] Van - Pitt Including Miller

[Highstickin]

Van:

- Miller ($2,000,000 retained on remainder of current deal)

- Schenn

 

Pitt:

- Kapanen

- Pickering

- 2023 1st

- 2024 2nd

 

Pitt has the cap space next year to deal with Miller's new contract and he fits their age window to compete with Sid and Malkin. Schenn helps with a playoff push this year and plays the way Burke likes. 

 

The retention is for the current contract only and helps the Pens make further moves at the deadline, this is offset by the 2024 2nd. The $2M essentially makes the money in/out equal. 

 

Maybe there needs to be some pieces added to balance this out a bit, but might be a start for us to move the Miller contract. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

It's interesting. Bet if Demko/Jarry were somehow worked in, Pitt wouldn't be able to resist.

 

But that is a helluva lot to give up. Trying such an approach would be better aimed at a destination like CBJ. Pens' youth ain't comparable.

[Fanuck]

Details of this deal notwithstanding - I can't see it happening simply for the optics.

 

You sign what you call your 'team leader' to a career contract and he's supposed to be one of the centrepieces of the team moving forward, then you do an abrupt about face and subsequently deal him before that deal even starts - JR and Allvin might as well hold a press conference telling everyone they're incompetent and incapable of doing their jobs, that they're unable to accurately evaluate at an organizational level, and they made the wrong move and are willing to literally pay for it for the next seven years. 

[Coconuts]

Pittsburgh makes a lot of sense, they're a squad that's already on the older side and they'll likely be looking at a lengthy rebuild post-Crosby/Malkin/Letang anyway 

 

Not really interested in Kapanen though, swap him with say.. McGinn and I'd be intrigued 

 

To Pittsburgh 

 

JT Miller with 50% retained on the last year of his current contract, he'd come in at a 2.65M for the Penguins. 

Luke Schenn 

 

To Vancouver

 

2023 or 2024 1st round pick

Brock McGinn who carries a 2.75M cap hit this season and for the next two seasons 

New Jersey's 2023 3rd

Pickering

5.25M in open cap space at the end of the season thanks to Miller's contract being off the books 

 

Miller's 8M extension is easily taken care of due to McGinn's being shipped out and Zucker's 5.5M cap hit coming off the books at the end of the season, this pays Miller with 250k to spare. 

 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Details of this deal notwithstanding - I can't see it happening simply for the optics.

 

You sign what you call your 'team leader' to a career contract and he's supposed to be one of the centrepieces of the team moving forward, then you do an abrupt about face and subsequently deal him before that deal even starts - JR and Allvin might as well hold a press conference telling everyone they're incompetent and incapable of doing their jobs, that they're unable to accurately evaluate at an organizational level, and they made the wrong move and are willing to literally pay for it for the next seven years. 

Counterpoint, if they don't think they're going to be competitive sooner than later they could be viewed at as stubborn for being unwilling to pivot. Management clearly thought we were further ahead than we are after last season, I don't recall JR talking about major surgery coming in. 

 

The landing spot being Pittsburgh makes sense too considering Miller grew up a Penguins fan. Miller's from Ohio, home wouldn't be far at all. 

[Highstickin]

11 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

It's interesting. Bet if Demko/Jarry were somehow worked in, Pitt wouldn't be able to resist.

 

But that is a helluva lot to give up. Trying such an approach would be better aimed at a destination like CBJ. Pens' youth ain't comparable.

I agree that the options coming back to Van are better from other teams, just not sure how many out there are ready to compete and take on a contract like this. 

[Highstickin]

7 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Details of this deal notwithstanding - I can't see it happening simply for the optics.

 

You sign what you call your 'team leader' to a career contract and he's supposed to be one of the centrepieces of the team moving forward, then you do an abrupt about face and subsequently deal him before that deal even starts - JR and Allvin might as well hold a press conference telling everyone they're incompetent and incapable of doing their jobs, that they're unable to accurately evaluate at an organizational level, and they made the wrong move and are willing to literally pay for it for the next seven years. 

I wondered about the optics as well but the reality is that this team has significantly underperformed where the management group thought they would and need to reassess where this team is headed based on new information. It's not to say that they were wrong about Miller per say, but that they got the player mix wrong on this roster. 

[Fanuck]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Counterpoint, if they don't think they're going to be competitive sooner than later they could be viewed at as stubborn for being unwilling to pivot. Management clearly thought we were further ahead than we are after last season, I don't recall JR talking about major surgery coming in. 

 

The landing spot being Pittsburgh makes sense too considering Miller grew up a Penguins fan. Miller's from Ohio, home wouldn't be far at all. 

 

1 minute ago, Highstickin said:

I wondered about the optics as well but the reality is that this team has significantly underperformed where the management group thought they would and need to reassess where this team is headed based on new information. It's not to say that they were wrong about Miller per say, but that they got the player mix wrong on this roster. 

They will/would try to spin doctor any move that they are 're-evaluating', but in the big picture a move like trading Miller before his extension even starts is tantamount to admitting you were grossly negligent in your initial evaluation of the organization in my view. 

 

Now, if in fact they come out and say they signed Miller because ownership wanted them to, and now ownership has changed the expectations of the franchise - that's a different story, but then again, this ownership has always used management to take the blame for everything and I don't expect for one second FA is going to own up to anything so I'm not holding my breath on that one.  

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

 

They will/would try to spin doctor any move that they are 're-evaluating', but in the big picture a move like trading Miller before his extension even starts is tantamount to admitting you were grossly negligent in your initial evaluation of the organization in my view. 

 

Now, if in fact they come out and say they signed Miller because ownership wanted them to, and now ownership has changed the expectations of the franchise - that's a different story, but then again, this ownership has always used management to take the blame for everything and I don't expect for one second FA is going to own up to anything so I'm not holding my breath on that one.  

More than likely you're probably right, they'll just spin it. 

 

I don't actually expect Miller to be traded, I don't think the collective ego of this management group could handle it. 

 

I'm hopeful that they'll go out and remedy their mistake but I'm not expecting it. They can call it a retool if they'd like but I think we're looking at more of a rebuild, not a scorched earth rebuild, but a rebuild nonetheless. I don't see Miller fitting the timeline.

[Highstickin]

1 minute ago, Fanuck said:

 

They will/would try to spin doctor any move that they are 're-evaluating', but in the big picture a move like trading Miller before his extension even starts is tantamount to admitting you were grossly negligent in your initial evaluation of the organization in my view. 

 

Now, if in fact they come out and say they signed Miller because ownership wanted them to, and now ownership has changed the expectations of the franchise - that's a different story, but then again, this ownership has always used management to take the blame for everything and I don't expect for one second FA is going to own up to anything so I'm not holding my breath on that one.  

I think there is more than one way to spin this to save face for management. 

 

Management maintains that there were no acceptable trade options for Miller at the deadline last season. If we assume that's true, than management had no choice but to sign Miller last offseason so we did not lose him for nothing or at the least a reduced return as he was a UFA. We can debate if $8M AAV is the right number for Miller but the bottom line is he has been >1PPG since arriving in Van and you don't find those much cheaper unless they are late in a contract. Management can essentially say they signed Miller to kick the can down the road until they received an appropriate offer. 

[Phil_314]

13 minutes ago, Highstickin said:

I think there is more than one way to spin this to save face for management. 

 

Management maintains that there were no acceptable trade options for Miller at the deadline last season. If we assume that's true, than management had no choice but to sign Miller last offseason so we did not lose him for nothing or at the least a reduced return as he was a UFA. We can debate if $8M AAV is the right number for Miller but the bottom line is he has been >1PPG since arriving in Van and you don't find those much cheaper unless they are late in a contract. Management can essentially say they signed Miller to kick the can down the road until they received an appropriate offer. 

That sounds great.  If they put that spin and JR were to sell Miller to his former team and they want to offer us that package (other than swapping out Kapanen for some combo of McGinn/ Rutta + Ty Smith/ Hallander/ Pickering + picks) like OP suggested, I'd be all down for it.
 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Phil_314

[lmm]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

Details of this deal notwithstanding - I can't see it happening simply for the optics.

 

You sign what you call your 'team leader' to a career contract and he's supposed to be one of the centrepieces of the team moving forward, then you do an abrupt about face and subsequently deal him before that deal even starts - JR and Allvin might as well hold a press conference telling everyone they're incompetent and incapable of doing their jobs, that they're unable to accurately evaluate at an organizational level, and they made the wrong move and are willing to literally pay for it for the next seven years. 

haha

so true

it's sad though, because it is all true

[VegasCanuck]

2 hours ago, Highstickin said:

Van:

- Miller ($2,000,000 retained on remainder of current deal)

- Schenn

 

Pitt:

- Kapanen

- Pickering

- 2023 1st

- 2024 2nd

 

Pitt has the cap space next year to deal with Miller's new contract and he fits their age window to compete with Sid and Malkin. Schenn helps with a playoff push this year and plays the way Burke likes. 

 

The retention is for the current contract only and helps the Pens make further moves at the deadline, this is offset by the 2024 2nd. The $2M essentially makes the money in/out equal. 

 

Maybe there needs to be some pieces added to balance this out a bit, but might be a start for us to move the Miller contract. 

I would happily retain the maximum 50% of his current contract in that deal. Someone get Allvin on the phone, tell him to stop playing with the Fricken other chipmunks and get the deal done!

 

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

It makes sense to me, on paper looks like too much value coming back but Miller is easily worth a prospect + late 1st, Schenn should be worth a 2nd or high 3rd and Kapanen is really just a cap dump (not sure what their plan was with him, signed him to a 3M deal then scratch him almost every game).

 

We should target teams like Pittsburgh or Washington who are desperate to keep their window alive for silly reasons and don't want to rebuild, we've got so many players like Miller, Schenn, Boeser or Garland who would be a perfect fit there. They don't have great prospects or picks but I'll take a late 1st rounder in this draft any day. Plus, Pittsburgh and Washington aren't blowing out the standings so that 1st may well be a 15-25th overall pick which could end up being a decent defenceman like Reinbacher or Gulyayev.

 

Next year the Penguins have a bunch of cap coming off the books so can fit his 8M deal in too.