If CDC was GM

[canuck73_3]

11 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Alf said he's a poor defensive player. Ill disagree with that. 

Some people here need to understand there is nuance to defensive play and being nominated for the selke is not the line between trash and good defensively. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by canuck73_3

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, 73 Percent said:

Yeah you just never know what offers would have been drawn up. Easy to say hold out for Schneider but you don't know if that would ever materialize.

And it seems like anyone who comes up with a "plan" seems to want to be bullheaded about their plan. You have people thinking Horvat could have brought back more than we got and you have people thinking Horvat's worth only 7m a season... and both sides will argue how their opinion is "absolute" until they're blue in the face.

 

Better yet, you also have people who think Horvat's worth only 7m a season AND we should have got more for him. 

 

I guess at the end of the day, it would really depend on how trades are done: whether it's through polls or whether we just do the 1st offer one of us makes that the other team would accept. lol

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Some people here need to understand there is nuance to defensive play and being nominated for the selke is not the line between trash and good defensively. 

Horvat's analytics when it comes to defensive play are average at best.  Nothing to do with any Selke votes.  However, if he was actually good defensively you would think he would have gotten more than one Selke vote from a local reporter over an 8 year career.  I can't believe that people who have watched Horvat play for 8 years think he is actually good defensively...

[canuck73_3]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Horvat's analytics when it comes to defensive play are average at best.  Nothing to do with any Selke votes.  However, if he was actually good defensively you would think he would have gotten more than one Selke vote from a local reporter over an 8 year career.  I can't believe that people who have watched Horvat play for 8 years think he is actually good defensively...

Good =/= great, Selke is for great. Again defensive play has a lot of nuance. It's not as simple as only one selke vote, so bad.

[Elias Pettersson]

22 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Come on.  Everyone here (including Alf) is just laying the hate on a player who indeed priced himself out of here, but that is primarily due to management.  Horvat was a loyal leader signed to one of the team's most cost-efficient contracts.   He has always been a top-six centre who has had a knack for finishing.  He has turned that finish up to 11 this season.

 

For me it's a matter of respect.  I'm sure when Linden was traded away in '98, fans were not jeering his decline and suggesting he wasn't a good player.  Bo played his heart out for Vancouver and it's irritating to see fans turn against him so quickly over something that clearly wasn't his fault.

The difference with Linden is that he actually accomplished something in Vancouver, something for the fans to cheer about.  He was a top end player as soon as he played his first game as a Canuck.  He was a true leader on and off the ice.  He bled for the Canucks, literally, playing with broken bones to lead us to almost winning the Stanley Cup.  Fans were alot closer to Linden than they were to Horvat.  Those are the facts.  I know this because I was there and saw it all happen in real time.  The last 8 years have not been kind to Canucks fans.  I am not suggesting that this is BO's fault, but at the end of the day he was the leader of the team that basically sucked for the last 8 years, well he was the captain for the last 4 years anyways.  

 

I don't agree with people throwing jerseys onto the ice or slandering BO's name at every opportunity, but honestly he's not a Canuck anymore so I really don't care what people say about him anymore, including Alf.  Time to move on from the BO era. 

[rychicken]

5 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

So I've had this idea for a little bit. I want to see how the roster would look/team would perform if ran by CDC. We'll do this by voting on signings, trades, and the draft. I'm going to try my best to update the roster as we make moves compared to the actual roster. Also We can attempt to adjust standings according to the moves we make (which can also be decided by a poll).

 

here's a general guideline of how I see this going.

 

Moves will be polled for 48 hours after they happen. 

 

Draft, signings, and trades will be polled moves.

 

A move will only be made available if it's happened in real life. So if for example Kane is traded for a 1st, we'll poll if we would have pulled the trigger or not. We can't just trade a 5th for Kane and assume the hawks would take it. 

 

At the end of the year we'll vote on our place in the standings based on our fictional rosters performance to determine our draft position.

 

Ill do my best to update this as well as 

 can. This may be something kinda neat or it may be a waste of time. But I don't create many topics around here so deal with it. Questions, comments, and concerns are all welcome. 

 

without further ado... Let's vote on the horvat move. As discussed earlier we can only vote on what we know. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

when can we vote to fire the DJ?

[Insensitive]

...There would be a trade after every game.

 

[-AJ-]

Love this idea. Will be fun to make fun of how dumb we were in the past.

[-AJ-]

39 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Horvat's analytics when it comes to defensive play are average at best.  Nothing to do with any Selke votes.  However, if he was actually good defensively you would think he would have gotten more than one Selke vote from a local reporter over an 8 year career.  I can't believe that people who have watched Horvat play for 8 years think he is actually good defensively...

On the contrary, his defensive metrics are actually pretty solid this year. With the Canucks, he had 27 takeaways (3rd among forwards) and only 15 giveaways. Obviously his face-offs are amazing, which, while not everything, is still a relevant stat. His +/- of +4 is impressive for a poor team like Vancouver. He was 3rd among Canuck forwards in shot blocks with 30 and he played big PK minutes.

 

The only really big knock against him defensively is that although he played a lot on the PK, he didn't have very good results on the PK. Everything else seems perfectly solid defensively as far as the stats tell me.

[smithers joe]

most of cdc's should haves, are born from hind sight. trade ideas have us winning every trade or are trades other teams would say no too. 

[Elias Pettersson]

32 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

On the contrary, his defensive metrics are actually pretty solid this year. With the Canucks, he had 27 takeaways (3rd among forwards) and only 15 giveaways. Obviously his face-offs are amazing, which, while not everything, is still a relevant stat. His +/- of +4 is impressive for a poor team like Vancouver. He was 3rd among Canuck forwards in shot blocks with 30 and he played big PK minutes.

 

The only really big knock against him defensively is that although he played a lot on the PK, he didn't have very good results on the PK. Everything else seems perfectly solid defensively as far as the stats tell me.

Horvat has been in the league for 9 years.  It's widely known and statistically proven that he is an average defensive player over that 9-year period.  Not sure about this year, but we are talking about his entire career in our conversations.  Not sure when it comes to Horvat why people only want to reference what he has done this year and make that his calling card in the NHL.  

[-AJ-]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Horvat has been in the league for 9 years.  It's widely known and statistically proven that he is an average defensive player over that 9-year period.  Not sure about this year, but we are talking about his entire career in our conversations.  Not sure when it comes to Horvat why people only want to reference what he has done this year and make that his calling card in the NHL.  

I would generally agree that he's been average for most of his career and even only a bit above average this year. Still, I don't think it's wise to entirely dismiss what he's done this year, even if it is a career year. For all we know, it is the best he'll be offensively, but he could remain this level or even improve defensively, especially in a defensive workhorse team like the Islanders.

[The Arrogant Worms]

3 hours ago, higgyfan said:

I will be cheering for every single team the Islanders play (or whatever it takes for them to stay in

13th place).  It's all about the 1st round pick coming our way.  After that, I will always cheer for Bo.

 

You are not the notorious Leaf hater like Alf though

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I would generally agree that he's been average for most of his career and even only a bit above average this year. Still, I don't think it's wise to entirely dismiss what he's done this year, even if it is a career year. For all we know, it is the best he'll be offensively, but he could remain this level or even improve defensively, especially in a defensive workhorse team like the Islanders.

Sure, players can always improve.  I'm not saying that he can't, he's still only 27.  But generally speaking, and looking at the totality of his career, Horvat has been great on faceoffs, which is why he takes all of the important draws, but he has been average defensively, according to the metrics.  Perhaps he can improve in New York.  But my feeling is they brought him there to score goals and play with Barzal, not to be some kind of defensive guru.  He won't be getting much PK time there either, so not sure that he will improve much defensively, other than playing in a system where he is forced to play a more defensive role, which most likely will hurt his offensive output.  I don't see him being the offensive juggernaut he was this year in Vancouver, as he won't be getting those types of opportunities in New York.  Even Barzal has struggled offensively playing in New York.  He had only 59 points last year.

[Curmudgeon]

If CDC were the GM the team would have 13 prospects playing in Junior, College or Europe, 14 in the AHL, 22 extra draft picks, an ECHL-calibre NHL squad, no NHL goalie, no assistant coaches, uniforms selected by CDC poll, and Trevor Linden in charge of it all. But we'd be aiming at the Stanley cup sometime in the next 5-7 years. Sounds like a plan.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The difference with Linden is that he actually accomplished something in Vancouver, something for the fans to cheer about.  He was a top end player as soon as he played his first game as a Canuck.  He was a true leader on and off the ice.  He bled for the Canucks, literally, playing with broken bones to lead us to almost winning the Stanley Cup.  Fans were alot closer to Linden than they were to Horvat.  Those are the facts.  I know this because I was there and saw it all happen in real time.  The last 8 years have not been kind to Canucks fans.  I am not suggesting that this is BO's fault, but at the end of the day he was the leader of the team that basically sucked for the last 8 years, well he was the captain for the last 4 years anyways.  

 

I don't agree with people throwing jerseys onto the ice or slandering BO's name at every opportunity, but honestly he's not a Canuck anymore so I really don't care what people say about him anymore, including Alf.  Time to move on from the BO era. 

Bear in mind that 2011 was almost 12 years ago.  Most high schoolers today don't even remember that run.  For those younger fans, the hard-nosed play of Horvat is all they'll remember.  He was always proud to be Canuck - probably more than anyone else on this team.  He earned the 'C' and it is unfortunate that management didn't value retaining him more.

 

2 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

Alf said he's a poor defensive player. Ill disagree with that. 

 

2 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Some people here need to understand there is nuance to defensive play and being nominated for the selke is not the line between trash and good defensively. 

 

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

On the contrary, his defensive metrics are actually pretty solid this year. With the Canucks, he had 27 takeaways (3rd among forwards) and only 15 giveaways. Obviously his face-offs are amazing, which, while not everything, is still a relevant stat. His +/- of +4 is impressive for a poor team like Vancouver. He was 3rd among Canuck forwards in shot blocks with 30 and he played big PK minutes.

 

The only really big knock against him defensively is that although he played a lot on the PK, he didn't have very good results on the PK. Everything else seems perfectly solid defensively as far as the stats tell me.

 

Horvat's defensive metrics have actually been quite bad, similar to the previous couple years.  He doesn't prevent that many scoring chances and he doesn't get puck out of the defensive zone much.  He did have a reputation as a solid two-way forward as a youngster, but he has turned into a much more offense-oriented skater now.  It'll be interesting to see the changes to his microstats by the end of the year.

[Elias Pettersson]

41 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Bear in mind that 2011 was almost 12 years ago.  Most high schoolers today don't even remember that run.  For those younger fans, the hard-nosed play of Horvat is all they'll remember.  He was always proud to be Canuck - probably more than anyone else on this team.  He earned the 'C' and it is unfortunate that management didn't value retaining him more.

 

 

 

 

Horvat's defensive metrics have actually been quite bad, similar to the previous couple years.  He doesn't prevent that many scoring chances and he doesn't get puck out of the defensive zone much.  He did have a reputation as a solid two-way forward as a youngster, but he has turned into a much more offense-oriented skater now.  It'll be interesting to see the changes to his microstats by the end of the year.

Thanks for posting the analytics on BO, that is very helpful.  When BO came out of junior, he was portrayed as being a solid 200' player.  He was being compared to Ryan O'Reilly.  At 18, that's the player we thought we were getting.  Over the years obviously that has changed.  He wasn't a great skater coming out of junior, so he spent quite a bit of time improving that area.  Not sure what happened to BO, but for whatever reason his hype of being a great 200' player never materialized.  He focused more on the offensive end of the ice.  Even this year, he spent all summer with Adam Oates to improve his shot.  

 

Maybe BO just felt that to get paid in the NHL, you need to score goals so why spend time focusing on the defensive side?  I'm just spit balling here, so don't know if that is true or not.  As well, we didn't really have great defensive coaches while BO was a Canuck, so he never really had that opportunity to get the proper coaching to work on his defensive game.  At the age of almost 28 it's probably too late for BO to become the next Ryan O'Reilly.  He is who he is now.  Compare that to Petey, who came out this year guns a blazing, not only transforming into a Selke award contender, but also being ALOT more physical as well.  He is basically a complete centre at this point other than the faceoffs, which I have no doubt he will get better at.  

 

BO wanted to get his money by being a 50-goal scorer.  Petey is going to get even more money by being one of the more complete centres in the NHL that every team dreams of having.  That's the difference between the two of them.

[nuck-lifer]

3 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

Alf said he's a poor defensive player. Ill disagree with that. 

People quickly forget about the intangibles that Horvat offered including our #1 faceoff guy, won the majority of his boards battles easily, played PP1,  PK1 , PK2, always on the ice the final 2 minutes winning or losing, and was in the top 5 of Canucks all time best captains IMO.. Linden, Sedin, Smyl ahead of him

Have nothing but respect for this absolute class act, but glad we didn't commit 8.5M x 8 for him as we still have a good chance to do major surgery even with Miller signed.

[Coconuts]

6 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Are you feeling ok?  Cheering for the Leafs?

Probably not

Not only is he pickled, he's salty too

 

[Bluejays13]

This CDCer would like to trade Hughes to Hughesville Devils for Mercer, Nemec and a !st in 2023 and 2024