The deserving(?) downfall of the Vancouver Canucks

[alt kilgore]

I found this video on YouTube and was all ready to write a nice long counter in the comments about how this content provider is unfairly talking trash about our team. With such a sensationalist title.

 

But after watching it, I found out that there wasn't much to argue about. He puts out some good points.  Mostly about the Benning era where it all started cratering.  Yeah its beating a dead orca, but hearing and seeing it in this format is good because he can show data on screen while he's talking.

 

One thing that stood out is the absolute dismal record we have of our draft picks, from all rounds combined, actually making it to the NHL.  The combination of lower picks not working out, (or just not developed properly) together with trading away a lot of your top three round picks for FA projects is a huge factor.  How every recent past SC winner had a high percent of home grown talent playing for them.  Tampa, Colorado, St. Louis, and Washington. And how Vancouver's developed players now playing for them, especially after Bo is now gone, is dismally low.

 

Another point that stood out was that the Boston %$%ing Bruins have more cap space right now than the Canucks.  And even the Stanley Cup winning Avalanche have 5 million in cap space.

 

I put the ? after deserving because us the fans do not deserve this.  p poor ownership and management have crippled this team for at least a decade now, and the mess left may take another ten years to fix, and us long suffering fans from a hockey mad Canadian city deserve better.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by kilgore

[250Integra]

Let me sum it up for you.

 

[Fanuck]

11 minutes ago, kilgore said:

I put the ? after deserving because us the fans do not deserve this.  p poor ownership and management have crippled this team for at least a decade now, and the mess left may take another ten years to fix, and us long suffering fans from a hockey mad Canadian city deserve better.

On one hand I agree, fans don't deserve over a decade of futility.

 

On the other hand, it's those same fans, or the majority of them anyway,  who have financially supported this club throughout the decade plus of futility sending the message to ownership that he has their support.

 

So is it deserved, or isn't it - I'm not totally sure myself?

 

One thing is very likely - if the rink started to be half full (or worse) on most game days, and stayed that way - there would be some serious changes RIGHT QUICK as FA wouldn't accept that for very long. 

 

[alt kilgore]

4 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

On one hand I agree, fans don't deserve over a decade of futility.

 

On the other hand, it's those same fans, or the majority of them anyway,  who have financially supported this club throughout the decade plus of futility sending the message to ownership that he has their support.

 

So is it deserved, or isn't it - I'm not totally sure myself?

 

One thing is very likely - if the rink started to be half full (or worse) on most game days, and stayed that way - there would be some serious changes RIGHT QUICK as FA wouldn't accept that for very long. 

 

I just think that after loyal fans have already been screwed, why should they bear the brunt and deny themselves a "good old hockey game"?  We get screwed twice.

 

And I don't think it will ever get that bad anyways.  For one, a lot of fans are just corporate salesmen taking their clients out. They don't really care what goes on on the ice. The other is that this is our towns only major NA professional sport. (MLS not withstanding). And its Hockey. And this is Canada. Right now we have Pettersson and Hughes to go ga ga over. There will always be fans willing to pay to go.

 

Another reason not to even want that is that if that were to happen, it would mean that this team was seriously in trouble. Maybe even of moving.  "one phone call away".   If 10 years of decline and mismangagement and Aquilinis are still making money off of them, I can only imagine the state of the team to reach that level of disinterest. And I really don't want that either.

 

 

[awalk]

It's been like watching a car wreck in slow motion over a decade. 

 

Really glad to see us holding multiple 1sts. 

But we also traded our 2nd next year in a pretty bad trade. So IDK.

 

Anyway...... thanks Benning. Thanks Aquaman. 

[Fred65]

Like you said tough to argue against. I will say this Vcr had a lot of hurdles agaist the Bruins. Hamhuis out, Rome suspended by Mr Jacobs, Edler broken hand, and Erhoff sperated shoulder. That's a lot of top  D'men lost. But the rest was pretty factual

[Fanuck]

17 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Another reason not to even want that is that if that were to happen, it would mean that this team was seriously in trouble. Maybe even of moving.  "one phone call away".   If 10 years of decline and mismangagement and Aquilinis are still making money off of them, I can only imagine the state of the team to reach that level of disinterest. And I really don't want that either.

I totally understand where you're coming from - corporations do support the team and make it look like the hardcore fan accepts what's happening when in fact they don't but their voice (empty seat) isn't counted.

 

On the other point - I don't think there's be any possibility, not even the slightest, that the NHL allow this team to move even if they bleed money for years - just look at AZ - have they EVER posted a profit, I mean in their entire existence?  Yet the NHL will absolutely NOT entertain moving that franchise. 

[Dazzle]

57 minutes ago, kilgore said:

I found this video on YouTube and was all ready to write a nice long counter in the comments about how this content provider is unfairly talking trash about our team. With such a sensationalist title.

 

But after watching it, I found out that there wasn't much to argue about. He puts out some good points.  Mostly about the Benning era where it all started cratering.  Yeah its beating a dead orca, but hearing and seeing it in this format is good because he can show data on screen while he's talking.

 

One thing that stood out is the absolute dismal record we have of our draft picks, from all rounds combined, actually making it to the NHL.  The combination of lower picks not working out, (or just not developed properly) together with trading away a lot of your top three round picks for FA projects is a huge factor.  How every recent past SC winner had a high percent of home grown talent playing for them.  Tampa, Colorado, St. Louis, and Washington. And how Vancouver's developed players now playing for them, especially after Bo is now gone, is dismally low.

 

Another point that stood out was that the Boston %$%ing Bruins have more cap space right now than the Canucks.  And even the Stanley Cup winning Avalanche have 5 million in cap space.

 

I put the ? after deserving because us the fans do not deserve this.  p poor ownership and management have crippled this team for at least a decade now, and the mess left may take another ten years to fix, and us long suffering fans from a hockey mad Canadian city deserve better.

 

 

To me, his points point to an obvious bias and is not at all objective. It's pretty telling that the posters that think this video is great because it speaks to an audience that agrees with a certain point.

 

However, when he discussed the aftermath of the so-called "panic move" led to the trade of 9th overall (Guenther), who the video maker proceeded to show the goal of Guenther in WJC. Really? We don't know if Guenther will be a footnote in the NHL, but the video maker assumes that Guenther is some cornerstone player who would have helped this team. He's JUST a winger. Doesn't even address organizational need.

 

This seems nothing more than an obvious beating of the horse of points that haven't been discussed to death already.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Dazzle

[BlakeQuinnAndEggs]

51 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

On one hand I agree, fans don't deserve over a decade of futility.

 

On the other hand, it's those same fans, or the majority of them anyway,  who have financially supported this club throughout the decade plus of futility sending the message to ownership that he has their support.

 

So is it deserved, or isn't it - I'm not totally sure myself?

 

One thing is very likely - if the rink started to be half full (or worse) on most game days, and stayed that way - there would be some serious changes RIGHT QUICK as FA wouldn't accept that for very long. 

 

If majority of fans stopped purchasing tickets and merchandise in a protest against ownership we would end up losing the team all together.

 

It's not our fault at all.

 

 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

Since Melnyk's passing, we now have the infamous title of having the most fan-hated owner in the NHL (hated by their own fans, not leaguewide).  The Canucks will always be my team, but I've definitely lost that enthusiastic interest or belief I once had.

11 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

To me, his points point to an obvious bias and is not at all objective. It's pretty telling that the posters that think this video is great because it speaks to an audience that agrees with a certain point.

 

However, when he discussed the aftermath of the so-called "panic move" led to the trade of 9th overall (Guenther), who the video maker proceeded to show the goal of Guenther in WJC. Really? We don't know if Guenther will be a footnote in the NHL, but the video maker assumes that Guenther is some cornerstone player who would have helped this team. He's JUST a winger. Doesn't even address organizational need.

 

This seems nothing more than an obvious beating of the horse of points that haven't been discussed to death already.

We probably wouldn't have drafted Guenther.  Benning's first round picks were all over the place.  But the point is that he was REALLY good at trading them away.  Guenther represents the idea of what to expect from a top 10 draft pick: a cornerstone piece of your franchise for years to come.

[Mando27]

With ownership like this it's expected. Linden was smart to jump ship when he could, the constant refusal to rebuild the team has cost them another decade of being a middling team. Wonder how the team would have turned out if we rebuilt like Gillis wanted after the finals.

[Fanuck]

11 minutes ago, BlakeQuinnAndEggs said:

If majority of fans stopped purchasing tickets and merchandise in a protest against ownership we would end up losing the team all together.

 

It's not our fault at all.

You think the NHL would financially support the Coyotes for 20 years, but pull the plug on the Canucks after a few seasons in the red, come on.....

[combover]

Some of us have been saying this since 2012-2013.

 

It’s Painful and no coincidence that the team has been in disarray almost the entire time Francesco  has been the ceo/owner. 

I just see the same mistakes being made over and over.

once the playoffs became the goal and not a Cup this  team was a turd in a never ending flushing toilet.

Jb was a disaster the minute he said “ I think we have a window to win” it told us he was a clueless idiot And then he proved it over 8 seasons of stupid moves. 
 

best thing for this franchise is for to be sold or for Francesco’s bothers to remove him from any and all hockey ops fire him from the ceo position. 
till then it’s status quo and more of the same. 
 

I’ll keep watching on TV as I’ve always done my emotional attachment is near nil and I find it funny more than upsetting when the team fails.but  I won’t pay to see a game till Francesco’s gone because I refuse to support the person I hold responsible for ruining this franchise. 



 

 

 

[alt kilgore]

1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

To me, his points point to an obvious bias and is not at all objective. It's pretty telling that the posters that think this video is great because it speaks to an audience that agrees with a certain point.

 

However, when he discussed the aftermath of the so-called "panic move" led to the trade of 9th overall (Guenther), who the video maker proceeded to show the goal of Guenther in WJC. Really? We don't know if Guenther will be a footnote in the NHL, but the video maker assumes that Guenther is some cornerstone player who would have helped this team. He's JUST a winger. Doesn't even address organizational need.

 

This seems nothing more than an obvious beating of the horse of points that haven't been discussed to death already.

You really want to use the OEL trade as some kind of counter? 

Guenther may not be a superstar, but he definitely looks like he's going to be a good NHL player. Who will be able to play at a younger age earlier, and any team that gets him will have a valuable ELC for 3 seasons, to ease the cap with other signings.

 

Lets see

To Vancouver

#Canucks D Oliver Ekman-Larsson ($990k retained [12%]) F Conor Garland (RFA)

 

To Arizona

#Yotes 2021 1st round pick (VAN - 9th overall) 2022 2nd round pick 2023 7th round pick F Jay Beagle F Loui Eriksson F Antoine Roussel

 

All for about 13 million in cap space, exchanged between them.  But Vancouver used that up in one year for Garland and OEL. And their contracts continue. While Arizona's 13 mill, is off the books after one season. Who exactly was the team that came out with the bigger cap savings dump again?  I never did understand that reasoning.

 

Garland, is overpaid, but not by a lot. He's smaller, and so may not be a great playoff performer, but he's got a unique set of skills and a good addition.  Especially lately he's putting in a lot of effort.

 

OEL, who by all accounts, Benning was already salivating about over a year before he landed the deal. And kept up his enthusiasm all through the season trying to make a deal for him even as OELs numbers sank further in Arizona.  JB had some kind of peculiar faith in OEL being the rejuvenated star defenceman he just had to have.

 

So he gets his man.  For a 7.3 cap for 6 years. Who I think can play smart with the puck, but only if he's not overloaded with minutes. Then he can be like another chaos (pick your animal) and with Myers its a disaster.

 

So besides losing the cap savings after only one year, JB also takes on this cap hit for 5 more years after for a player who should be playing 5th D minutes right now. 

 

For that privilege we not only lose a promising prospect like Guenther, who racked up 91 points in 59 WHL games last season, and has 15 points in 33 games with the Coyotes this season. But that second round pick last draft, traded to Minnesota and picked by Brackett, who got fired here for showing up Jimmy, hasn't been too shabby either.  Hunter Haight has has 27 points in 23 OHL games as an 18-year-old this season.  I'm almost scared to find out what happened with that 7th round pick JB also threw in.

 

There  is no other way to describe that trade, comparing the value added and subtracted to each team, as a devastating trade for Vancouver. I didn't think Benning could top his 6 million dollar empty net specialist deal, but I think this one tops it.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by kilgore

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, 250Integra said:

Let me sum it up for you.

 

Hey @Alflives, I found the real elephant 

[Nucker 67]

After seeing Bo in an Islanders jersey and hearing the Isles fans chanting his name, so happy to have him. I can only imagine how good that must've felt, to finally be appreciated in that way by a fanbase. 

 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

18 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

After seeing Bo in an Islanders jersey and hearing the Isles fans chanting his name, so happy to have him. I can only imagine how good that must've felt, to finally be appreciated in that way by a fanbase. 

It's a bit of a "honeymoon" phase right now....

 

....let's see what they're chanting in year 6 of that deal....

[Junkyard Dog]

7 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

It's a bit of a "honeymoon" phase right now....

 

....let's see what they're chanting in year 6 of that deal....

We are probably gonna feel the same way with Miller as he ages. 

[RUPERTKBD]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

We are probably gonna feel the same way with Miller as he ages. 

[canuck73_3]

5 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

We are probably gonna feel the same way with Miller as he ages. 

And much sooner.