[Proposal] Demko and Boeser to Buffalo

[Provost]

Buffalo is an up and coming team but still has a tough time attracting UFAs without overpaying.

To jump start their improvement, they could use our players.  Ideally I would love to move Miller there, but as that probably isn't going to happen another deal would be interesting.

To Buffalo:
Demko
Boeser
Schenn

To Van:
2024 1st round pick
Luukkonen
Samuellson

Boeser basically replaces Okposo next year for the same cap hit which is an upgrade for them and they are deeper this year.  They really need a goalie ready now as they can't rely on a 40 year old Anderson.  We get some really nice futures, some cap space, and if we want we can find a bandaid veteran to play with Silovs for a couple years or go after Jarry in the offseason.

Buffalo would really use a playoff appearance this year and aren't far out even with no real goaltending.  Tage Thompson has changed the calculus for them and they should be pushing to leverage that rather than sitting back with status quo.  Even after picking up these two players they have a crap ton of cap space next season to sign another couple of high end free agents.  They could add Larkin and Severson overpaying them in the offseason and still have cap space to spare.

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Krebs-Larkin-Boeser
Mittelstadt-Jost--Olofson
Peterka-Cozens-Quinn

Dahlin-Severson
Power-Jokiharju
Bryson-Lybibushkin
Clague

Demko
Comrie

Samuellson plays the right side and would be a big loss for them... maybe enough so we couldn't get as high as a 1st round pick... or have to add a 2nd or 4rd going the other way.

Edited February 10 by Provost

[Fanuck]

I don't hate this.

 

I also think if Demko isn't moving there could still be a fit with Buf:

 

To Buf:  Boeser, 3rd, Rathbone

 

To VAN:  Jokiharju, Nadeau

[AngryElf]

Samuelsson is unavailable. He's the reason Dahlin has free reign to go for offense, like a better version of Tanev + Huggy. 

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, AngryElf said:

Samuelsson is unavailable. He's the reason Dahlin has free reign to go for offense, like a better version of Tanev + Huggy. 

Yup, there's a reason they signed him to that 7 year deal.  He's their defensive anchor on the blueline... something we sorely miss.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

Yup, there's a reason they signed him to that 7 year deal.  He's their defensive anchor on the blueline... something we sorely miss.

Well Gudbranson was supposed to be that anchor.  He just ended up being an actual anchor.  Good thing Jim Benning was able to sucker some other GM into trading for him.  I forgot the name of that other NHL GM.   Hmmmmmmm.

[Alflives]

This is a trade from the Sabre's POV.  What's this trade do for us?  

[Coconuts]

Demko to Buffalo makes sense, not sure they' want to give up on Luukkonen though, if anything they'd have more interest in utilizing them as a tandem imo. He'll be 24 in March, Demko has three years left on his current deal. Luukkonen likely won't get a massive raise after next season unless he blows people away, it sets up a succession plan rather nicely. This is assuming he progresses of course, they could always just extend Demko if he's performed well.

 

I also doubt Samuelsson is on the table at all given the extension they've handed him. 

 

Boeser could be interesting but I wouldn't expect a ton. 

 

Maybe something more along the lines of 

 

To Buffalo

 

Demko

Boeser

 

To Vancouver

 

1st

Comrie

Whichever is highest of Vegas's, Philly's, or Buffalo's 2nd 

Topias Leinonen

Edited February 11 by Coconuts

[VancouverHabitant]

This is a very complicated trade proposal.  

 

I think that Buffalo would be after either Demko or Boeser, but not both.  Luke Schenn will return probably a 2nd, or perhaps two picks like a 3rd and 5th rounder, if we decide to trade him.  Luke Schenn trade would probably end up being more fruitful for us if we split it up and do it separately.  I genuinely believe that every single Cup contender would be looking to add him as the 7th d-man for a Cup run, and that some of the playoff pretenders might get him as the 6th d-man for the playoffs. 

 

Boeser for 2 x 2nd round picks in 2023 would be a very fair deal for both teams.  

Demko would fetch a lot more and I don't think makes much sense to move from our side.  

 

 

[Bob.Loblaw]

That is a lot of cap Buffalo is taking on.  They have tons of space this year.  But Thompson and Cozens' contracts kick in next year.  They also need to start paying Dahlin the year after that.  They are going to run into serious cap problems if they trade recklessly.

[J.I.A.H.N]

23 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

That is a lot of cap Buffalo is taking on.  They have tons of space this year.  But Thompson and Cozens' contracts kick in next year.  They also need to start paying Dahlin the year after that.  They are going to run into serious cap problems if they trade recklessly.

Buffalo's total cap on the books, when Dahlen, Powers and Jokihatju, need resigning in 2 years is 33 Million, that is after already paying for Thompson and Cozens, and that is with no cap increases included.  They will have approx.52 million to pay them. Boeser and Demko are premium players, and will be part of their core. Also by then, Boeser will have proved himself one way or another, so Buffalo can pay him, if successful, or trade him, if not. 

 

I am not saying that Boeser is a star, but he is a good offensive player, who has upside, as proven last night. (1 G and 3 A) not alot of players get that. For instance, you don't see Lazar getting that, that is for sure. So the Canucks retain a million for a year, so what!

 

As for Demko, I love him, but if he brings back a boat load, even a small boat load, I am all in! there will be Goalies available, when needed. (Aka Jarry possibly!)

 

I am not personally familiar with Buffalo's talent pool out side their roster, but IMO, they have enough to give up futures. We need to load up! And condense, and get rid of cap where we can, short term. Buffalo has the 17th best winning percentage, so right in the middle, and Boeser and Demko make them better. I am all in on a trade with Buffalo.

 

Phili's 2023-2nd

Buffalo's 2024-1st

Luukkonen

 

for 

 

Demko

Boeser (1 Million retained)

Schenn 

 

Works for me!

 

I want it done asap..................

Why do we do this? We do this for several reasons. #1, we remain firmly anchored in the 2023 draft top 10, and more likely in the top 5, we gain cap which allows us to keep Myers until the 2024 TDL, where gets to be a real trading asset, and we get assets, that, in the future, allows us to build a solid young core.

 

Having 2 drafts where we have multiple early picks, in all the top 3 rounds, allows us to really, build, and with the current, players, prospects and picks, will have a young vibrant, club. Try to keep in mind that as we build in the next 2 drafts, which from a timing perspective, is imperative. We have our older contracts coming off the books.

 

Vancouver's 2023-1st.............5th OA* (this pick has a chance at Bedard, Fantilli, or Carlsson - 5th gets you a player equal to Pettersson or Hughes

NYI 2023-1st..........................14th OA (This pick can be as high as 4th OA, if it wins the lottery-slim chance but a chance never the less)

Vancouver's 2023-2nd............37th OA

Philidelphia's 2023-2nd...........41st OA

Vancouver's 2023-3rd.............69th OA

 

Vancouver's 2024-1st..............2nd OA* This pick gets you at real chance at #1 OA, who will be a franchise player, as will 2nd OA

Buffalo's 2024-1st....................20th OA

Vancouver's 2024-3rd..............66th OA

 

* Denotes the ability to step in to the line up quickly.........Immediately, or a year later

 

If we are going to rebuild, this is how it is done. Keeping your Cap clear, until the last of your core pieces are in place. This is where Benning blew it, having signed UFA's as core pieces, instead of pieces to plug holes, that your prospects did not fill. (Not the other way around!) It is how a proper rebuild is done! 

 

(it is truly only a 17 month commitment, from today and a much need one!)

 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Buffalo's total cap on the books, when Dahlen, Powers and Jokihatju, need resigning in 2 years is 33 Million, that is after already paying for Thompson and Cozens, and that is with no cap increases included.  They will have approx.52 million to pay them. Boeser and Demko are premium players, and will be part of their core. Also by then, Boeser will have proved himself one way or another, so Buffalo can pay him, if successful, or trade him, if not. 

 

I am not saying that Boeser is a star, but he is a good offensive player, who has upside, as proven last night. (1 G and 3 A) not alot of players get that. For instance, you don't see Lazar getting that, that is for sure. So the Canucks retain a million for a year, so what!

 

As for Demko, I love him, but if he brings back a boat load, even a small boat load, I am all in! there will be Goalies available, when needed. (Aka Jarry possibly!)

 

I am not personally familiar with Buffalo's talent pool out side their roster, but IMO, they have enough to give up futures. We need to load up! And condense, and get rid of cap where we can, short term. Buffalo has the 17th best winning percentage, so right in the middle, and Boeser and Demko make them better. I am all in on a trade with Buffalo.

 

Phili's 2023-2nd

Buffalo's 2024-1st

Luukkonen

 

for 

 

Demko

Boeser (1 Million retained)

Schenn 

 

Works for me!

 

I want it done asap..................

Why do we do this? We do this for several reasons. #1, we remain firmly anchored in the 2023 draft top 10, and more likely in the top 5, we gain cap which allows us to keep Myers until the 2024 TDL, where gets to be a real trading asset, and we get assets, that, in the future, allows us to build a solid young core.

 

Having 2 drafts where we have multiple early picks, in all the top 3 rounds, allows us to really, build, and with the current, players, prospects and picks, will have a young vibrant, club. Try to keep in mind that as we build in the next 2 drafts, which from a timing perspective, is imperative. We have our older contracts coming off the books.

 

Vancouver's 2023-1st.............5th OA* (this pick has a chance at Bedard, Fantilli, or Carlsson - 5th gets you a player equal to Pettersson or Hughes

NYI 2023-1st..........................14th OA (This pick can be as high as 4th OA, if it wins the lottery-slim chance but a chance never the less)

Vancouver's 2023-2nd............37th OA

Philidelphia's 2023-2nd...........41st OA

Vancouver's 2023-3rd.............69th OA

 

Vancouver's 2024-1st..............2nd OA* This pick gets you at real chance at #1 OA, who will be a franchise player, as will 2nd OA

Buffalo's 2024-1st....................20th OA

Vancouver's 2024-3rd..............66th OA

 

* Denotes the ability to step in to the line up quickly.........Immediately, or a year later

 

If we are going to rebuild, this is how it is done. Keeping your Cap clear, until the last of your core pieces are in place. This is where Benning blew it, having signed UFA's as core pieces, instead of pieces to plug holes, that your prospects did not fill. (Not the other way around!) It is how a proper rebuild is done! 

 

(it is truly only a 17 month commitment, from today and a much need one!)

 

 

 

 

First, we need Demko. Second, I think the Islanders’ pick (if it’s in the lottery and ends up 12 or higher) to be theirs if they so choose. So I think they will use the pick if they move up to fourth. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

38 minutes ago, Alflives said:

First, we need Demko. Second, I think the Islanders’ pick (if it’s in the lottery and ends up 12 or higher) to be theirs if they so choose. So I think they will use the pick if they move up to fourth. 

Yeah, you are probably right Alf..............(I can't believe I said that!)

[Alflives]

14 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Yeah, you are probably right Alf..............(I can't believe I said that!)

Guys on 650 saying it’s the Islanders option to give us the pick this year, even if it’s higher than 12.  I wonder what the nu,Bert is where Lou Lam says it’s ours?  10 maybe as the cutoff? I wonder when that has to be declared?  Got to be before the draft, no? I couldn’t imagine waiting and at the draft there’s a player we like at the Islanders’ pick (let’s say at 11) and Lou keeps the pick.  @mll can clear this up. 

[Crabcakes]

Moving Demmer is wrong headed.  I can't understand why people think he should be moved simply because they could get a decent return.

 

1. You don't move your 1C, 1D or 1G if that is what they really are
2. Moving a 1G usually nets less than fair value especially given the development that they take

[Crabcakes]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Guys on 650 saying it’s the Islanders option to give us the pick this year, even if it’s higher than 12.  I wonder what the nu,Bert is where Lou Lam says it’s ours?  10 maybe as the cutoff? I wonder when that has to be declared?  Got to be before the draft, no? I couldn’t imagine waiting and at the draft there’s a player we like at the Islanders’ pick (let’s say at 11) and Lou keeps the pick.  @mll can clear this up. 

I heard this and it makes me really uneasy.  So if they like a pick at 16 and that is their slot, then they can elect to take it.  Sounds patently unfair

[Kenny Powers]

11 hours ago, Fanuck said:

I don't hate this.

 

I also think if Demko isn't moving there could still be a fit with Buf:

 

To Buf:  Boeser, 3rd, Rathbone

 

To VAN:  Jokiharju, Nadeau

Like this better

[Provost]

15 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Moving Demmer is wrong headed.  I can't understand why people think he should be moved simply because they could get a decent return.

 

1. You don't move your 1C, 1D or 1G if that is what they really are
2. Moving a 1G usually nets less than fair value especially given the development that they take

It depends on what you think of the future.

 

We have no significant prospects in the pipeline, we are capped out, our star players aren’t signed to long term value contracts… and we have a terrible roster.

 

That all adds up to not being very good for a long time.  The only way to become mediocre is to overpay veterans to come here, and that puts you in a cap bind going forward without those great value ELCs coming in.

 

There really just isn’t a practical path to becoming a contender with this team in the foreseeable future.

 

That leaves you with trying to figure out how to build assets that will be here in 3–5 years to contribute.  Almost no one will be under club control by then so every year it will be panicked trades or overpayments to avoid risking losing them for nothing… or worse losing them for nothing while chasing futile playoff runs if we are within sniffing distance of a wildcard spot.

 

It is pretty bleak, and really the fastest likely way out is to start right over again and that includes Petterson, Demko, and Hughes.  Just figuring out when their value is the highest is the key.  Do we pay Petterson $11 million per year on an extension hoping that cap increases make it a good deal in a few years?  My bet is him being a top 5 centre in the league in his prime…. But also surrounded by crap on the roster.  Could you take basically every top prospect and pick from a team by trading him in the summer after a 100 point season where he has taken a big step?

[Crabcakes]

9 minutes ago, Provost said:

It depends on what you think of the future.

 

We have no significant prospects in the pipeline, we are capped out, our star players aren’t signed to long term value contracts… and we have a terrible roster.

 

That all adds up to not being very good for a long time.  The only way to become mediocre is to overpay veterans to come here, and that puts you in a cap bind going forward without those great value ELCs coming in.

 

There really just isn’t a practical path to becoming a contender with this team in the foreseeable future.

 

That leaves you with trying to figure out how to build assets that will be here in 3–5 years to contribute.  Almost no one will be under club control by then so every year it will be panicked trades or overpayments to avoid risking losing them for nothing… or worse losing them for nothing while chasing futile playoff runs if we are within sniffing distance of a wildcard spot.

 

It is pretty bleak, and really the fastest likely way out is to start right over again and that includes Petterson, Demko, and Hughes.  Just figuring out when their value is the highest is the key.  Do we pay Petterson $11 million per year on an extension hoping that cap increases make it a good deal in a few years?  My bet is him being a top 5 centre in the league in his prime…. But also surrounded by crap on the roster.  Could you take basically every top prospect and pick from a team by trading him in the summer after a 100 point season where he has taken a big step?

You may be right but I don't see that happening.  It's tough to get those 3 pieces but they have them and it's true that they've wasted a few years already.

 

I see everybody else as being up for grabs and they really, really need to improve the D

 

The good news is that ownership has agreed to ship a player like Horvat out so surely, he will agree to move other good pieces.  I think that some of the players that they have are keepers.  I think they like the speed of Mikheyev and Beauvillier.  Kuzmenko was looking great under Boudreau and we'll see where that goes with Tocchet.  Bear also seems to be doing well.  These players seem to me to fit with the team they are trying to build.  

 

I think we see the addition of a few youngish (25 and under) players added simply because in a hard cap world, players shipped out must have salary coming back.  I would hope that these players will be on less term than players going out. So the cap situation may take a year or 2 to improve in a substantial way.  Also, they are attempting to get draft picks for top players like Horvat and rentals like Schenn.  That is the way that I think they go from here. 

 

We can say that they should move Boeser, Garland and Myers right away but all of these moves require the opportunity so while it may be the plan to move on from these guys, it can't always be done when they want to.  It's a really difficult situation but management will have to keep their eye on the work that they have to do

[Provost]

57 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

You may be right but I don't see that happening.  It's tough to get those 3 pieces but they have them and it's true that they've wasted a few years already.

 

I see everybody else as being up for grabs and they really, really need to improve the D

 

The good news is that ownership has agreed to ship a player like Horvat out so surely, he will agree to move other good pieces.  I think that some of the players that they have are keepers.  I think they like the speed of Mikheyev and Beauvillier.  Kuzmenko was looking great under Boudreau and we'll see where that goes with Tocchet.  Bear also seems to be doing well.  These players seem to me to fit with the team they are trying to build.  

 

I think we see the addition of a few youngish (25 and under) players added simply because in a hard cap world, players shipped out must have salary coming back.  I would hope that these players will be on less term than players going out. So the cap situation may take a year or 2 to improve in a substantial way.  Also, they are attempting to get draft picks for top players like Horvat and rentals like Schenn.  That is the way that I think they go from here. 

 

We can say that they should move Boeser, Garland and Myers right away but all of these moves require the opportunity so while it may be the plan to move on from these guys, it can't always be done when they want to.  It's a really difficult situation but management will have to keep their eye on the work that they have to do

The problem is even if we clear cap space in a couple years, you can't build a successful team through free agency.  You always just pay too much.  If you look at Cup winners they have a lot of homegrown players on their rosters that they drafted and developed.  I don't think we have a single prospect in our pipeline that is even a lock to be an NHLer at all, never mind someone who is a lock to play in the top half of the lineup where you need to be getting significant contributions from ELC contracts to make a cap work.  Our extra cap is going to keep going towards existing players who are on efficient contracts like Petterson.

We "should" get 1-2 players (depending on when we get the Islanders pick) that are 2-3 years out from playing on the roster... hopefully one of them turns into a gem.  Other than that, later picks don't tend to develop and blossom until a lot later.

Even by being bad and drafting reasonably high over the next 2-3 years, we won't have a critical mass of prospects coming through to drastically improve our fortunes in time for us to leverage the club controlled years of our top young players.  I would love to build a team around Petterson, you can see this year the same physical and mental maturation you saw with the Sedins a few years into their career.  He looks physically different and stronger, and suddenly he isn't falling down all the time and is winning one on one battles regularly.  Combine that with his skillset and the sky is the limit.  If he was willing to sign a $9 million x 8 year extension in the summer, sure go wild.  His agent knows they have us over a barrel though and his client will want to be paid or have a chance to go to free agency and play for a winner rather than sit through years more of losing.  I think an extension could easily eclipse the $11 million mark on max term, and that would be tough to build around.

[Crabcakes]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

The problem is even if we clear cap space in a couple years, you can't build a successful team through free agency.  You always just pay too much.  If you look at Cup winners they have a lot of homegrown players on their rosters that they drafted and developed.  I don't think we have a single prospect in our pipeline that is even a lock to be an NHLer at all, never mind someone who is a lock to play in the top half of the lineup where you need to be getting significant contributions from ELC contracts to make a cap work.  Our extra cap is going to keep going towards existing players who are on efficient contracts like Petterson.

We "should" get 1-2 players (depending on when we get the Islanders pick) that are 2-3 years out from playing on the roster... hopefully one of them turns into a gem.  Other than that, later picks don't tend to develop and blossom until a lot later.

Even by being bad and drafting reasonably high over the next 2-3 years, we won't have a critical mass of prospects coming through to drastically improve our fortunes in time for us to leverage the club controlled years of our top young players.  I would love to build a team around Petterson, you can see this year the same physical and mental maturation you saw with the Sedins a few years into their career.  He looks physically different and stronger, and suddenly he isn't falling down all the time and is winning one on one battles regularly.  Combine that with his skillset and the sky is the limit.  If he was willing to sign a $9 million x 8 year extension in the summer, sure go wild.  His agent knows they have us over a barrel though and his client will want to be paid or have a chance to go to free agency and play for a winner rather than sit through years more of losing.  I think an extension could easily eclipse the $11 million mark on max term, and that would be tough to build around.

I agree.  Journeymen like Beauvillier can be had via trade but real talent is coming through the draft.

 

There's no telling where Podkolzin, Hoglander or Raty peak but it would be lucky to get 1 of them in the top 6.  And there are no D coming so we are really waiting on drafted players.  I think that Allvin understands that and he insisted on a good pick in return for Horvat.