How America lost its mind—and how to get rationality back

[Boudrias]

18 hours ago, Ilunga said:

I studied economics at school.

Before that my parents taught me that if you spend more money than you make, eventually that will catch up with you.

Be you and individual or a country. 

If you don't have the money to buy something, don't spend money you haven't got.

 

People and Countries have got used to " cheap " debt.

Very low interest rates. 

They borrowed large amounts of money and now interest rates are going up they are complaining. 

The era of cheap money has come to an end.

As the debt burden increases and carrying costs take more of budgets the hard questions will have to be addressed. Current estimates are that interest on debt will take 15% of the USA budget next year. It is very cynical but easy for politicians to attack one another when hard questions about spending are debated. Does anyone see a road to where the debt can actually be reduced? Bush-Obama-Trump-Biden have all spent beyond their economies ability to pay. There isn't any serious talk about the problem.

 

IMHO debt could be the issue that brings the political divide in the USA to the boil over point. It will take an exceptional politician to prevent serious civil upheaval.  

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

As the debt burden increases and carrying costs take more of budgets the hard questions will have to be addressed. Current estimates are that interest on debt will take 15% of the USA budget next year. It is very cynical but easy for politicians to attack one another when hard questions about spending are debated. Does anyone see a road to where the debt can actually be reduced? Bush-Obama-Trump-Biden have all spent beyond their economies ability to pay. There isn't any serious talk about the problem.

 

IMHO debt could be the issue that brings the political divide in the USA to the boil over point. It will take an exceptional politician to prevent serious civil upheaval.  

Isn’t debt one of the big differences between conservatives and liberals? (Democrats and Republicans) 

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Isn’t debt one of the big differences between conservatives and liberals? (Democrats and Republicans) 

Yes, but not in the way the Republicans claim.

 

https://towardsdatascience.com/which-party-adds-more-to-deficits-a6422c6b00d7

 

[Boudrias]

46 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Isn’t debt one of the big differences between conservatives and liberals? (Democrats and Republicans) 

It used to be Alf. Conservatives used to believe in balanced budgets or a clear path to balanced budgets. Not so much anymore as all politicians are spending beyond the capacity to pay. It appears to me that the majority of citizens don't seem to understand the implications. A major one being inflation. 

 

A aging demographic undermines GDP growth. Deflationary. Most politicians right or left act as if they can grow the economy out of the debt problem. Prior to Covid the fear was deflation not inflation. Politicians created tax incentives to encourage investment in hopes it would increase GDP. It wasn't really happening. Canada has been losing investment capital for years. No investment and labour productivity decreases. The question I keep asking is where is the wealth being created? Biden is pumping BUY AMERICA as the Americans are bringing manufacturing back to the USA and creating trade barriers to protect their industry. We are not the ally we were. This is why I keep harping on the wealth we are losing out on in the Canadian oil patch. It is the golden goose that we have tossed away. 

[The Lock]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

It used to be Alf. Conservatives used to believe in balanced budgets or a clear path to balanced budgets. Not so much anymore as all politicians are spending beyond the capacity to pay. It appears to me that the majority of citizens don't seem to understand the implications. A major one being inflation. 

 

A aging demographic undermines GDP growth. Deflationary. Most politicians right or left act as if they can grow the economy out of the debt problem. Prior to Covid the fear was deflation not inflation. Politicians created tax incentives to encourage investment in hopes it would increase GDP. It wasn't really happening. Canada has been losing investment capital for years. No investment and labour productivity decreases. The question I keep asking is where is the wealth being created? Biden is pumping BUY AMERICA as the Americans are bringing manufacturing back to the USA and creating trade barriers to protect their industry. We are not the ally we were. This is why I keep harping on the wealth we are losing out on in the Canadian oil patch. It is the golden goose that we have tossed away. 

I think the problem is though, you start cutting budgets with this aging population, you don't get voted in. Perhaps that's how society is these days or perhaps that's from politicians "stuck" on "simpler" public statements that are more proven to get people's attention that involve spending.

 

The aging population doesn't help either. That's a major hospital bill at the end of the day that wasn't there before.

[Boudrias]

33 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I think the problem is though, you start cutting budgets with this aging population, you don't get voted in. Perhaps that's how society is these days or perhaps that's from politicians "stuck" on "simpler" public statements that are more proven to get people's attention that involve spending.

 

The aging population doesn't help either. That's a major hospital bill at the end of the day that wasn't there before.

I doubt there will be an option to cut or not cut. This is why I see the serious division getting much worse. Either the citizens realize that hard choices have to be made or they are deluded into thinking they can continue to 'kick the can down the road even further'. It works until it doesn't. Currency goes into flux and inflation really climbs. When entitlements can't be paid for and no one will buy your credit, what are you going to do? Usually it is democracy that fails. 

[The Lock]

6 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I doubt there will be an option to cut or not cut. This is why I see the serious division getting much worse. Either the citizens realize that hard choices have to be made or they are deluded into thinking they can continue to 'kick the can down the road even further'. It works until it doesn't. Currency goes into flux and inflation really climbs. When entitlements can't be paid for and no one will buy your credit, what are you going to do? Usually it is democracy that fails. 

I will admit I looked at a post of yours yesterday and started looking into if things are "sustainable" or not, whether money is as simple as "goes in" and "goes out". I don't have a conclusion yet and I probably won't for a while. I want to research what actually goes on when overbudgets actually happen, hopefully in an unbiased way. Basically, I'm not satisfied with just accepting what might seem to be the "obvious" as fact as sometimes there might just be more to it.

 

Either I'll become smarter... or I'll get bored... that's also a possibility... 

Edited February 20, 2023 by The Lock

[Boudrias]

14 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I will admit I looked at a post of yours yesterday and started looking into if things are "sustainable" or not, whether money is as simple as "goes in" and "goes out". I don't have a conclusion yet and I probably won't for a while. I want to research what actually goes on when overbudgets actually happen, hopefully in an unbiased way. Basically, I'm not satisfied with just accepting what might seem to be the "obvious" as fact as sometimes there might just be more to it.

 

Either I'll become smarter... or I'll get bored... that's also a possibility... 

Your a better man than me. I will keep an eye open for your feedback. You realize that some people have spent life times trying to figure this out. 

[The Lock]

Just now, Boudrias said:

Your a better man than me. I will keep an eye open for your feedback. You realize that some people have spent life times trying to figure this out. 

I can't promise anything with this of course, but if I do find anything out I'll be sure to make note of it. I just can't help but think there's more to all of this. I certainly don't expect myself to ever be an expert on it, just a curious voter.

[kodos]

On 2/12/2023 at 9:46 PM, Bad_BOI_pete said:

this is how to have fair and civil discourse where each respects listens and fairly challenges each other...

 

pretty much everyone other than the radical left and right could stay civil in the youtube comments... 

 

 

 

there is many others... but you must look for it...

Fair discourse and Ben Shapiro are antithetical. You have to be joking.

[MattWN.]

"Decreasing Debt" isn't helpful when it's education and social security you're consistently gutting. 

 

[The Lock]

Thinking back on topic with all of this, I think a lot of the issue isn't even necessarily the echo chambers. Those are going to happen no matter what. The problem is the fact that the media looks for attention. The media wants "clicks" and while some media are still good about it, it's easy for a media company to fall into a mode of being willing to do anything for those clicks, even if it means to lie or exaggerate or even make up a story based on a single fact that has no context. People react more to "extreme headlines" than they do a more normal headline.

 

And sure, it's easy to then blame capitalism for it, but I think there are ways around it. For example, look at Google Ads. They're based on clicks for companies to get money. If there was somehow another way for companies to make money, it might actually be a step in a direction that could make the media less biased if it's then not just about "clicks". Change the source of income basically for the media companies. Do I have a solution as to how? No. I don't. But I think understanding the source of all of this is at least important in thinking towards the right path to solve the problem.

Edited February 27, 2023 by The Lock