[PGT] Detroit Red Wings at Vancouver Canucks | Feb. 13, 2023

[EdgarM]

13 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

I've never heard of a coach being hired not to win now. When Boudreau was hired they won 7 in a row, ended up winning 35 under him for the remainder of the season. Basically the same team. They probably would have made the playoffs, had Demko not gotten injured. Plus, Bo broke his foot too. Show me any pro in any sport that doesn't want to win, or a coach that doesn't want to win, please I'm waiting.

This team is BROKEN and needs some serious fixing. There won't be any WININNG until many things are addressed. Management , Coaches and some fans know this and that is why the priorities of Winning will be secondary until they can build up something that resembles a competitive team to move forward. 

Those of us who have been waiting years and decades, don't mind waiting a few months to see how this plan pans out.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

JR was talking about changing the culture in the off season, did he? No! JR was talking about moving out contracts for cap money and draft picks, did he? No! JR left BB dangling in the wind by hiring Tocchet in November if the rumour is true, is that solid management?  NO! If you ask me this management team is a country club, is it any wonder the players have no idea which direction they're going? I mentioned Tortorella before, actually Keenan was worse.

Are you basing your above comments on Tocchets back to school comment after Monday's game, no taking nights off, and not cutting corners. Another catch phrase my friend. I'm waiting for him to say, there's no I in team. Yeah let's have a training session for a west coast team that travels 4 times as much as an eastern conference team like Pittsburg,  during the season, and then see who ends up injured while doing so.

Maybe changing the culture included changing the owner's mindset? The owner wouldn't allow JR to replace BB last summer. It caused a lot of troubles with the club. Then the owner allows the Bo trade with a return for futures as the key. I'm thinking the owner's position on hockey ops has changed. 

[EdgarM]

27 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

JR was talking about changing the culture in the off season, did he? No! JR was talking about moving out contracts for cap money and draft picks, did he? No! JR left BB dangling in the wind by hiring Tocchet in November if the rumour is true, is that solid management?  NO! If you ask me this management team is a country club, is it any wonder the players have no idea which direction they're going? I mentioned Tortorella before, actually Keenan was worse.

Are you basing your above comments on Tocchets back to school comment after Monday's game, no taking nights off, and not cutting corners. Another catch phrase my friend. I'm waiting for him to say, there's no I in team. Yeah let's have a training session for a west coast team that travels 4 times as much as an eastern conference team like Pittsburg,  during the season, and then see who ends up injured while doing so.

Changing the Culture is going to take time, there are some deeply entrenched habits on this team and its the same with moving out contracts. Some are pretty difficult and almost impossible to move. 

I think they know exactly where they are going and I totally agree about Keenan. I would like to forget that time period for the Canucks thank you very much.

No I am basing my thoughts on everything that JR, Alvin and Tocchet have been saying since they got here, it has all been pretty consistent and I understand the issues from watching this team for so many years. 

[johngould21]

35 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

This team is BROKEN and needs some serious fixing. There won't be any WININNG until many things are addressed. Management , Coaches and some fans know this and that is why the priorities of Winning will be secondary until they can build up something that resembles a competitive team to move forward. 

Those of us who have been waiting years and decades, don't mind waiting a few months to see how this plan pans out.

I'm 75 and I'm getting impatient. Two more years of building, will it include EP? I doubt it. He's the best player this franchise has had since the twins.

[johngould21]

2 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Changing the Culture is going to take time, there are some deeply entrenched habits on this team and its the same with moving out contracts. Some are pretty difficult and almost impossible to move. 

I think they know exactly where they are going and I totally agree about Keenan. I would like to forget that time period for the Canucks thank you very much.

No I am basing my thoughts on everything that JR, Alvin and Tocchet have been saying since they got here, it has all been pretty consistent and I understand the issues from watching this team for so many years. 

You're making it sound like they can wave a magic wand and get a top 4 defense, they haven't had a top 4 defense since the '09 to '11 teams. I think PA, JR should have held off comments until they were in town for at least a month before making those statements. How many times did Stan Smyl interrupt them in the initial press conference. He knew what this team was, they should have listened to him, before going to the mics.

[EdgarM]

5 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

I'm 75 and I'm getting impatient. Two more years of building, will it include EP? I doubt it. He's the best player this franchise has had since the twins.

I hear ya, I have been waiting to see a team that resembles the Linden/Bure Era and we haven't even come close since. The Twins were super skilled but there teams lacked all of the other attributes to be successful in the playoffs. 

We have been fooled into thinking that a championship team is being built, NOT even close. 

I truly believe that this is the closet we are going to see a team being built with the proper tools to succeed in the post season.

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, johngould21 said:

JR was talking about changing the culture in the off season, did he? No! JR was talking about moving out contracts for cap money and draft picks, did he? No! JR left BB dangling in the wind by hiring Tocchet in November if the rumour is true, is that solid management?  NO! If you ask me this management team is a country club, is it any wonder the players have no idea which direction they're going? I mentioned Tortorella before, actually Keenan was worse.

Are you basing your above comments on Tocchets back to school comment after Monday's game, no taking nights off, and not cutting corners. Another catch phrase my friend. I'm waiting for him to say, there's no I in team. Yeah let's have a training session for a west coast team that travels 4 times as much as an eastern conference team like Pittsburg,  during the season, and then see who ends up injured while doing so.

Do you really think this season is normal? 
Get real…

[kilgore]

2 hours ago, johngould21 said:

I've never heard of a coach being hired not to win now. When Boudreau was hired they won 7 in a row, ended up winning 35 under him for the remainder of the season. Basically the same team. They probably would have made the playoffs, had Demko not gotten injured. Plus, Bo broke his foot too. Show me any pro in any sport that doesn't want to win, or a coach that doesn't want to win, please I'm waiting.

 

Its more nuanced than that.  Its not so much about winning, as winning the right way.

 

BB was a players coach.  A dream coach for the offensive players on the team. Just have fun, and score your way of trouble.  But that  approach falls apart when you don't get good goaltending. And your D has no idea where to go on the ice.  That kind of "system" is hella fun to watch but unsustainable.

 

And it makes sense that a team can instantly be better, at least offensively, going to a pond hockey mentality, as opposed to going the other way and trying to adapt to a more defensive mindset with a set structure and positioning.

 

[Muttley]

12 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

Ouch; Tom and Jerry music to boot. Poor Quinn.

[johngould21]

2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Do you really think this season is normal? 
Get real…

I expect more from a management group than words, and catch phrases. It's been more of the norm over the past 15 months. I'll even go to ask how many of you on this board commented when BB went on that run with the same team that Benning assembled and Green coached?

Edited February 15 by johngould21

[johngould21]

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

Its more nuanced than that.  Its not so much about winning, as winning the right way.

 

BB was a players coach.  A dream coach for the offensive players on the team. Just have fun, and score your way of trouble.  But that  approach falls apart when you don't get good goaltending. And your D has no idea where to go on the ice.  That kind of "system" is hella fun to watch but unsustainable.

 

And it makes sense that a team can instantly be better, at least offensively, going to a pond hockey mentality, as opposed to going the other way and trying to adapt to a more defensive mindset with a set structure and positioning.

 

You mean like the Coilers play, they don't have an NHL defense or an NHL goalie in their system.

[EdgarM]

3 hours ago, johngould21 said:

You're making it sound like they can wave a magic wand and get a top 4 defense, they haven't had a top 4 defense since the '09 to '11 teams. I think PA, JR should have held off comments until they were in town for at least a month before making those statements. How many times did Stan Smyl interrupt them in the initial press conference. He knew what this team was, they should have listened to him, before going to the mics.

No I don't think they can wave a magic wand but it is the first time I seen us accumulating draft picks instead of giving them away like candy. Bo needed to go and unlike the past, we got something for him. These picks and picks we should be getting in the future, should give us good chances at picking defenseman in the draft or using them for assets to utilize in trades for young prospects. 

Yes I wish Stan Smyl had more say as I believe he knows what we need to be successful. 

[Timråfan]

1 minute ago, johngould21 said:

I expect more from a management group than words, and catch phrases. It's been more of the norm over the past 15 months.

So how has this been words and catch phrases? 
The Horvat trade, new coaches etc isn’t words and catch phrases as Benning did.

[johngould21]

2 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

So how has this been words and catch phrases? 
The Horvat trade, new coaches etc isn’t words and catch phrases as Benning did.

JR: culture of the team, structure of the team, we're going to move out contracts, and trade for picks. Just a few of his words and catch phrases. 

[johngould21]

6 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

No I don't think they can wave a magic wand but it is the first time I seen us accumulating draft picks instead of giving them away like candy. Bo needed to go and unlike the past, we got something for him. These picks and picks we should be getting in the future, should give us good chances at picking defenseman in the draft or using them for assets to utilize in trades for young prospects. 

Yes I wish Stan Smyl had more say as I believe he knows what we need to be successful. 

Yet they still traded picks for Dermott, I might be wrong on him, but they've traded a pick or picks since they arrived. JR even admitted he should have said less in the beginning, but alas, here we are. Another season in Canuck history down the toilet.

[EdgarM]

10 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

Yet they still traded picks for Dermott, I might be wrong on him, but they've traded a pick or picks since they arrived. JR even admitted he should have said less in the beginning, but alas, here we are. Another season in Canuck history down the toilet.

Yeah I agree, he has made some moves which contradict the plan but I also imagine that there is not a one size fits all plan and he must make some moves which are not ideal. I know he wanted to get everyone to be around the 26 year old mark but yet he signed Miller.

I am going to give it until part way through next season before I make my assessment of this new group.

[johngould21]

19 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Yeah I agree, he has made some moves which contradict the plan but I also imagine that there is not a one size fits all plan and he must make some moves which are not ideal. I know he wanted to get everyone to be around the 26 year old mark but yet he signed Miller.

I am going to give it until part way through next season before I make my assessment of this new group.

A head scratcher for sure. Bo would have probably taken less, and would have left the organization with a #1 or #2 center, but, I've beaten Miller enough on these threads. I think its time for him to show his worth. He's another one that used to shot from that left wall, now all we see are those blind back passes to QH. I don't think we'll see JR much longer than next season if this isn't improving.

[TeamTurmoil]

On 2/14/2023 at 2:24 PM, combover said:

They said the same when Bruce took over.

that’s all  I’m saying.

Regardless of coaches this team is still in need of a rebuild just like it was when Gillis and torts said it. Or when Linden said it 
Even cliff ronning is saying it.

 

the teams playing for a new coach so yeah they’re playing harder just like when Bruce took over. 
Saying he’s getting more out of certain players says more about the type of player we have than the coach. 
and really I see most of team working the same as they did under Bruce miller is the only guy that seems to have really pickup his game and like I said that more of a reflect of that player. 
 

we won’t be better next season if we come back with the bulk of this  roster. In fact we’ll be worse because we got worse with the loss of horvat. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

If  you watched the game against Philly, you can't still feel that is accurate? This team does things fundamentally different. There are times where they now just flip the puck and change where as under Bruce and moreso under Green they would exhaust themselves with dump and chase. Its a better structure. It will normally result in less goals (hopefully both ways) but its proven successful. 

 

I believe Rick went to the playoffs 16 times in his career. For a 6th rounder that's pretty good. His style of play is one that if you had a team of them, you would likely win year after year. My hope is that he picked up enough from the coaches he played for that will translate into something great. I didn't like his handling of Kuzmenko, but it seems to be paying off. 

 

I want this team to develop every game, but lose every game at least this year. 

[combover]

8 minutes ago, TeamTurmoil said:

If  you watched the game against Philly, you can't still feel that is accurate? This team does things fundamentally different. There are times where they now just flip the puck and change where as under Bruce and moreso under Green they would exhaust themselves with dump and chase. Its a better structure. It will normally result in less goals (hopefully both ways) but its proven successful. 

 

I believe Rick went to the playoffs 16 times in his career. For a 6th rounder that's pretty good. His style of play is one that if you had a team of them, you would likely win year after year. My hope is that he picked up enough from the coaches he played for that will translate into something great. I didn't like his handling of Kuzmenko, but it seems to be paying off. 

 

I want this team to develop every game, but lose every game at least this year. 

Yeah it’s still accurate.

bruce won 600 nhl games as a coach the team played great after he took over. Weren’t they I’ve of the best teams Late last year..

aren’t you sick of struggling to achieve mediocrity 

 

this team isn’t good enough.

the players aren’t good enough 

because we beat a team that’s crappier than us it means we’re so now we re playing good…

 

I don’t disagree the team needs to play better d  but it’s pretty clear this group isn’t good enough and won’t commit. 
we give up more goals and score less with ric 

we need a massive overhaul on player personnel 

just like we did with Travis just like we did with Bruce and now with Ric.

coaching wasn’t the problem the players were and still are.

we won’t win crap next year with these players regardless of some  fans new found love of the word “structure”

Time will tell if ricks approach will work it didn’t with his past coaching gigs hopefully he learned and has grow since then 

but unless the roster is overhauled i give him 3 years and he’ll be thrown away to for a new “structure”. 
 

and at this point Just because we play different than we did under Bruce doesn’t mean it’s better and defiantly  doesn’t mean the guys will play hard for him next year. 
Jt miller was a no show for half the season after piling up a career best 99 points  demko was injured 

drama controversy distractions all over this side show circus this season.