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On 2/17/2023 at 10:04 AM, ToTellTheTruth said:

To even make it more baffling was signing Garland and Sutter before Pettersson and Hughes then whining there was no cap space.

Why did an RFA part time NHLer earning the league minimum get preference?

 

The story line some media are trying to promote is that is why Pettersson only signed for three years. Although I can't see what term had to do with how much, which was because of those other preferences.

 

AND how does Garland get a 5 year contract at 5 mil a year as an RFA and making 775 K?

 

Just about anything he did was beyond comprehension, 3 mil for Pearson that early then no cap space for any others?

Just letting every or just about every FA walk away for nothing?

 

What "hockey" trades? A first round selection with less than a full year dealt for another, at the time, part time dman with no pedigree, a reasonably priced center for an often injured 3rd line center?

 

His best trade is somewhat questionable too, a capped out team. At a time when capped out teams are adding in sweeteners to make cap space Benning gives up a first plus allowing them to have a valuable trade asset and win a cup. The Canucks gained a whopping 9 points in the standings for that gem.

 

Then there is giving a divisional competitor cap space by taking what they offered for a pick, on paper not bad but a careful look would discover that the player's stats were a product of the teams he played on, but hey, he allowed them to sign a STUD dman helping them out.

 

He fired every front office guy that had a thought.

 

Signed a player that doctors refused to clear for play, bad enough but give him a 4 year 3.5 mil uninsurable contract with a NMC, just so some fans that hate Aqullini understand that even though that contract came off the cap the owner supported the team and had to pay every dime of that contract. Most LTIR's are insured. So Benning screwed him too.

 

BTW he IS the WORST GM in NHL history for such a short term or 7 year period. In every stat.

 

 

There is so much its difficult to even list everything.  Almost every single move he made backfired. Its astounding how the Aquilinis just catered to him, buying out his mistakes from one season to make room for more mistakes in the next.  The only reason they allowed him to keep digging I believe has to be because Frank was deeply involved with those bad decisions and thought that they had to keep doubling down to prove he was the smartest man in the room.  Musk level narcissism. 

 

He played Aquilini and Aquilini played him at the same time. Benning was the worst for that reason. That he prioritized his pay cheque over the fans. The alternative is that "Dim Jim" actually fits, and he was in over his head. I don't know which one is worse.

 

I'll put it this way, I don't remember any GM, for any team in history, that actually helped made two other teams better, Calgary and Phoenix, and their own team worse.

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2 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

There is so much its difficult to even list everything.  Almost every single move he made backfired. Its astounding how the Aquilinis just catered to him, buying out his mistakes from one season to make room for more mistakes in the next.  The only reason they allowed him to keep digging I believe has to be because Frank was deeply involved with those bad decisions and thought that they had to keep doubling down to prove he was the smartest man in the room.  Musk level narcissism. 

 

He played Aquilini and Aquilini played him at the same time. Benning was the worst for that reason. That he prioritized his pay cheque over the fans. The alternative is that "Dim Jim" actually fits, and he was in over his head. I don't know which one is worse.

 

I'll put it this way, I don't remember any GM, for any team in history, that actually helped made two other teams better, Calgary and Phoenix, and their own team worse.

Absolutely. In sports the model in general is that the management is essentially a shield for ownership. You rarely see owners come out and aggressively defend the decisions of management especially when the outcome is poor. When a plane was flown over the city with the banner #"FireBenning" is when you finally saw a rare moment of self-reflection and accountability from Frank. He knew that Benning was drawing the fan's ire for decisions that he made. 

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23 hours ago, Diamonds said:

We had 3 pretty bad off-seasons in a row. 2 are on Benning, 1 is on JR/PA.

 

2020

Team showed they were starting to get close, went on a fun bubble run. We let all of our depth go.

 

I don't have an issue with letting Markstrom and Tanev go, but Toffoli over Jake should have been an easy decision even without hindsight (Jake showed up to the bubble out of shape and got scratched the first game...). We also should have tendered Stecher an offer as that was a large blow to our depth.

 

2021

Team showed they still have a potentially bright future but still aren't quite there. Don't make win now moves, ride out the last year of LE, Beagle, and Roussel and gain 12M cap space next summer.

 

Also, rather than signing Poolman and re-signing Hamonic we should have gone after McCabe to replace Schmidt and Forbort to stabilize the left side/replace Edler. 

 

2022 (including trade deadline)

The team is clearly not ready and has taken a step back. Miller no longer fits the timeline. Capitalize on his career year for a big return at trade deadline plus trade Boeser at the deadline for a 2nd.

 

Re-sign Horvat in the summer for 6.75-7x7 (he almost certainly would have accepted). Trade Rathbone + 2nd for Marino (we could have easily beaten NJ's offer). Still bring in Kuzmenko + Mikheyev. 

 

Suddenly, this is how the team looks:

Mikheyev - Pettersson - Kuzmenko 

Garland - Horvat - Toffoli 

Podkolzin - Chytil - Hoglander 

Joshua - Lazar - Aman/Lockwood

Pearson somewhere if healthy

 

Hughes - Marino

McCabe - Myers

Forbort - Schenn

Lundkvist 

Stecher/Burroughs

 

+cap space

 

Obviously some of these moves would have negated others but I would pick this roster over our current one, especially the defense.

 

Edit: Temporarily forgot Garland was part of OEL trade. Remove him from the lineup. 

 

2 years? Benning misread the team and made mistakes literally every single off season he was here. Starting with the huge one of setting a wrong direction from the get go.  I am getting tired of listing everything again.  From the 'drafting guru' trading away Forsling almost immediately, on out.  You should know all this. JR may have made a mistake not blowing up the team when he got here, but he inherited a Frankenstein team that was so badly constructed mix of odd limbs, over sized limbs in some areas, and weak limbs where he needed strength in others. But it had also some great pieces to use, simply because the odds were that some of the bodies they collected actually were useful so it would be a shame not to continue and waste Petey's brain for instance.  So at least I can see the reasoning for JR just continuing with a retool at this point.  Unfortunately he blew it with not doing more about our defence last Summer.

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40 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

2 years? Benning misread the team and made mistakes literally every single off season he was here. Starting with the huge one of setting a wrong direction from the get go.  I am getting tired of listing everything again.  From the 'drafting guru' trading away Forsling almost immediately, on out.  You should know all this. JR may have made a mistake not blowing up the team when he got here, but he inherited a Frankenstein team that was so badly constructed mix of odd limbs, over sized limbs in some areas, and weak limbs where he needed strength in others. But it had also some great pieces to use, simply because the odds were that some of the bodies they collected actually were useful so it would be a shame not to continue and waste Petey's brain for instance.  So at least I can see the reasoning for JR just continuing with a retool at this point.  Unfortunately he blew it with not doing more about our defence last Summer.

Prior to 2020 I don't think Benning's tenure was all negative. Yes, he absolutely had some misses like Virtanen, Juolevi, Gudbranson, and trading Forsling, but he also had hits in Hughes, Pettersson, Boeser, Demko, Stecher, and Sutter (when not injured). I might be one of the few people on this board that liked the move to bring in Beagle. 

 

Do I think Benning was a good GM? No. But, he wasn't the worst GM in the league prior to his final two seasons.

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The best I can say about JB was he was Aquamans yes man. Why else would they keep JB for 8 years and fire the most successful GM ever after only 6 years. There's no logic period. And lest we forget either FA or JB fired Gilman too :sadno:

 

Let's not leave the fact that the Cap Spaces mess alone is enough to doom the franchise for years to come

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4 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

2 years? Benning misread the team and made mistakes literally every single off season he was here. Starting with the huge one of setting a wrong direction from the get go.  I am getting tired of listing everything again.  From the 'drafting guru' trading away Forsling almost immediately, on out.  You should know all this. JR may have made a mistake not blowing up the team when he got here, but he inherited a Frankenstein team that was so badly constructed mix of odd limbs, over sized limbs in some areas, and weak limbs where he needed strength in others. But it had also some great pieces to use, simply because the odds were that some of the bodies they collected actually were useful so it would be a shame not to continue and waste Petey's brain for instance.  So at least I can see the reasoning for JR just continuing with a retool at this point.  Unfortunately he blew it with not doing more about our defence last Summer.

unfortunately, 

so has Allvin

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19 hours ago, lmm said:

unfortunately, 

so has Allvin

I guess we're talking by degree. PA still has a better success curve ( IMHO ) than JB. It's simple again IMHO JB was not an intelectual genius. He couldn't stand up to the other moron FA and so here we are. I think the benefit of JR/PA is before agreeing to join the franchise JR  made it known to FA Hockey ops were only to be made by JR/PA. It's a huge difference JB wanted the job badly being a rookie and was pushed around by FA. This Cap problem is much bigger than most are will to acknowldge

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On 2/18/2023 at 11:20 AM, kilgore said:

 

2 years? Benning misread the team and made mistakes literally every single off season he was here. Starting with the huge one of setting a wrong direction from the get go.  I am getting tired of listing everything again.  From the 'drafting guru' trading away Forsling almost immediately, on out.  You should know all this. JR may have made a mistake not blowing up the team when he got here, but he inherited a Frankenstein team that was so badly constructed mix of odd limbs, over sized limbs in some areas, and weak limbs where he needed strength in others. But it had also some great pieces to use, simply because the odds were that some of the bodies they collected actually were useful so it would be a shame not to continue and waste Petey's brain for instance.  So at least I can see the reasoning for JR just continuing with a retool at this point.  Unfortunately he blew it with not doing more about our defence last Summer.

I'l glad you added full perspective here, from day one JB's vision was non existent. He turfed his money men and that should have been an indicator but I kept believing JB had this, he didn't and boy was I wrong. I picture his office likening it to the office on Barney Miller. 

 

 JB put present management in a tough spot with ludicrous signings with amounts and terms. More than one contract. That said its now JR and PA challenge to rectify the ship. 

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1 minute ago, aqua59 said:

I'l glad you added full perspective here, from day one JB's vision was non existent. He turfed his money men and that should have been an indicator but I kept believing JB had this, he didn't and boy was I wrong. I picture his office likening it to the office on Barney Miller. 

 

 JB put present management in a tough spot with ludicrous signings with amounts and terms. More than one contract. That said its not JR and PA challenge to rectify the ship. 

True, but with all his obvious faults Benning did come across as a decent person. Unlike JR. 

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6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

True, but with all his obvious faults Benning did come across as a decent person. Unlike JR. 

That's true enough but like Bruce people don't come to see a decent executive sitting in a press box or standing behind the bench. Fans pay money to watch their team win. 

 

I do understand what you're saying.

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1 minute ago, aqua59 said:

That's true enough but like Bruce people don't come to see a decent executive sitting in a press box or standing behind the bench. Fans pay money to watch their team win. 

 

I do understand what you're saying.

Agreed. I definitely want to see us win. Gillis sure came across as not a nice person, but he did build us a great team. Benning appeared a nice guy, but we were awful. JR is a lot more like Gillis. So hopefully that means he will build us a winner. Even though we don’t like him. 

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On 2/18/2023 at 10:39 AM, kilgore said:

I'll put it this way, I don't remember any GM, for any team in history, that actually helped made two other teams better, Calgary and Phoenix, and their own team worse.

 

I mean...  Mike Milbury?

 

With the Islanders...

- Drafted Rick DiPietro 1st overall and moved on from Luongo (traded Luongo AND Olli Jokinen to Florida for Oleg Kvasha and Mark Parrish)

- Traded Mike Peca to the Oilers for Mike York

- Gave us Bertuzzi and McCabe for post-knee-injury Linden

- Traded Zdeno Chara AND the 2nd overall pick to Ottawa for Alexei Yashin (then signed Yashin to a 10 year $90M deal)

 

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On 2/18/2023 at 12:54 PM, Fred65 said:

The best I can say about JB was he was Aquamans yes man. Why else would they keep JB for 8 years and fire the most successful GM ever after only 6 years. There's no logic period. And lest we forget either FA or JB fired Gilman too :sadno:

 

Let's not leave the fact that the Cap Spaces mess alone is enough to doom the franchise for years to come

I don't know why they would have fired Gillis after the entire GM Place erupted saying "Fire Gillis!" :rolleyes:

 

But, you know... let's just ignore that, the mishandling of Luongo and Schneider, and basically everything that led to his firing, and let's just call him the most successful GM ever because we all apparently love whip cream on a turd!

 

Nonis: now that's who made the majority of the core of that successful team. Gillis might have helped for a while, but not after 2011. The guy had a major meltdown after that SCF run. If Gillis is our "most successful GM ever", it just goes to show how bad our history has been.

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On 2/14/2023 at 9:40 AM, kacholu said:

I have never been a fan from day 1. However, does anyone know any rumours of him being hired somewhere else? 

 

I would absolutely love to see the next train wreck he creates 

He did the best with what he had and it was a far worse train wreck before that, this franchise has been a absolute joke! 

 I'm not even sure which is worse, the fan base it the franchise... My guess is the fans, a lot to stupid to look at the big picture of what it's been like, sell the farm for a depthless roster for one cup and scream for it like lil kids in a play ground if it's not done! 

 Where exactly did that get us? How many cups do we have? 

Whatever... Unbelievable stupidity that never ceases to amaze me yet we seem to think some genius GM is going to come in and not bow to idiocy of that kind of thinking. 

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On 2/14/2023 at 9:40 AM, kacholu said:

I have never been a fan from day 1. However, does anyone know any rumours of him being hired somewhere else? 

 

I would absolutely love to see the next train wreck he creates 

P.S. If you think the problem lies with one GM then who at least TRIED to buck the bullshi_ and fill the seats, try and build a team after it being left a absolute destroyed team with a roster full of locked in contracts then your as much of an idiot as the one and done crowd mentality. Again, ask yourself how far that ever got us before JB came along? Have you got the balls to think about it for a minute and come to the logical conclusion or are you just as stupid as those folks who think a depthless roster is going to win anything? 

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On 2/15/2023 at 11:28 AM, Fred65 said:

Here's the hard part to get your head around. Gillis was the MOST succesful GM in franchise history. Think about, the most succesful EVER and yet some fans doubts his abilities. They disliked his aloofness. Can't handle his intellilect. Frankly it says more about the the fans intelect or maybe lack of. He was a man that spoke with facts only never trying to diguise, unlike Benning who punctutate every sentence with "well you know" Gillis moved on from the NHL to teach law at U.Vic. Benning, would you employ him LOL I know their are some that will insist that the table for Gillis success was set by his predacor, that may have some legs except he did bring some toughness and the likes of Erhoff, drafted Horvat and secured Markstrom in a trade to say nothing of signing UFA Tanev right out of university. Gillis was a 1st round pick himself and fully understood the need for suitable troughness for the play-offs and aquired it. Never mentioned was his aquasition of Hamhuis for instance. I could go on but franlky for many the logic would pass over their heads. A few used to say he left a bare cupboard but so did Benning plus salar cap Hell. Aquamn i suspect couldn't handle Gillis intelligence and so he fired him. Similar Gilman way to smart for Aquallini 

Record wise, yes he was our best GM.  But he didn't build the team.  It's not just the fans that doubted his abilities, it seems it's also all the other NHL owners, since he hasn't had another GM job since, which seems a little odd, if he was this great GM.  So is it really just the fans?

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1 hour ago, The Lock said:

I don't know why they would have fired Gillis after the entire GM Place erupted saying "Fire Gillis!" :rolleyes:

 

But, you know... let's just ignore that, the mishandling of Luongo and Schneider, and basically everything that led to his firing, and let's just call him the most successful GM ever because we all apparently love whip cream on a turd!

 

Nonis: now that's who made the majority of the core of that successful team. Gillis might have helped for a while, but not after 2011. The guy had a major meltdown after that SCF run. If Gillis is our "most successful GM ever", it just goes to show how bad our history has been.

I’ve seen first hand what posters here trying to smear JR and PA for when they have done what they talked about and has limits on cap expenses.

So what is truth about the bad things I hear about Gillis?

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On 2/18/2023 at 6:39 PM, kilgore said:

 

There is so much its difficult to even list everything.  Almost every single move he made backfired. Its astounding how the Aquilinis just catered to him, buying out his mistakes from one season to make room for more mistakes in the next.  The only reason they allowed him to keep digging I believe has to be because Frank was deeply involved with those bad decisions and thought that they had to keep doubling down to prove he was the smartest man in the room.  Musk level narcissism. 

 

He played Aquilini and Aquilini played him at the same time. Benning was the worst for that reason. That he prioritized his pay cheque over the fans. The alternative is that "Dim Jim" actually fits, and he was in over his head. I don't know which one is worse.

 

I'll put it this way, I don't remember any GM, for any team in history, that actually helped made two other teams better, Calgary and Phoenix, and their own team worse.

The Miller move was a good move... But the timing was possibly wrong.

 

The time to rebuild properly was after Mike Gilles got canned... they should have sold everything the could, and started from scratch... The is little doubt, FA didn't want that, and as a result, Benning was left to chase overpriced FAs and prospects, that were already deemed not really good by other teams, for picks...

 

The OEL and Garland trade was bad, but some people on CDC seems to ignore history... the two seasons leading up to the trade just about everyone was complaining about having to pay over the odds for 3rd and 4th liners non stop. It is almost as if Benning had held on to these players 1 more year, and tried to trade them at the TDL instead, all the issues we have now, had been non existing....

 

As for letting Tanev and Marky go.... Marky v Demko has been gone through endlessly, and Tanev was in just about 1 million trade proposals leading up to it, because ' he was injury prone, not worth his salary', etc etc... right up to he left. His replacement was top pairing in Vegas, when he came here, and I don't remember anyone being unhappy about him being brought in that summer. He didn't work out here, but believe he did fine in his next club, so whether it was a coaching issue or what, who knows... Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but for all the crying over some of the issues under Benning, is absurd...

 

He did cock things up and was needed to be replaced, but which GM will come into a club with nothing on the shelves and all the ageing players on NMCs or NTCs and make it competitive without being able to strip it down... If goes higher that Benning....

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On 2/15/2023 at 7:54 AM, erkayloomeh said:

As you may have noticed it's incredibly hard to get a top pair dman. 

OEL trade was a trade where he hoped he would be able to return to his former self . A gamble that failed and in part the sedins should be blamed for that as well. I can imagine a scenario where OEL was in communication with the twins and claimed his decline was due to his situation. Being on the Canucks he'd return to his all star ways and we would have a true #1 dman for once. 

Like I said, failed experiment.

It should be clear now we need to draft dmen asap.

For me though, I did not see an OEL trade or a giving up of a 9 overall. All I saw was a dumping of loui Ericsson. 

And for that I will be eternally grateful. 

A top d man is IDEALLY acquired in the draft vs the expensive route of FA or trades.  Any method is a gamble but in the draft, it is only costing the team a lottery ticket, instead of asset(s) and cap space.  LE 2.0 still has the skill and experience to be a decent player but his mental make up, seems to be too fragile to work through things and the hiring of Tocchet just adds to the drama.  I really hope they can trade him, even if it means they retain a good chunk of his retirement deal.  Instead of buying him out and keeping him in the books for a lot longer.  Just like LE, he knows his salary makes him target and he should had realized it when he signed that deal.  

 

Good point on the Sedins vouching for OEL cause I still remember that interview on the radio with one of the Sedins, trying really hard to sell the trade.  The OEL trade was OBVIOUSLY A BAD TRADE FROM THE START - VERY MUCH LIKE THE LE SIGNING cause both carried too much terms at a high cost for two players that are aging and mentally soft.   Also, both transactions had something to do with the Sedins and I really hope they would stop putting their names on any player in the future, unless one of them becomes the GM.

 

As for JB, Francesco should had hired a PoHO that can work with JB cause JB seems to be the type that functions better as an assistant; and I do wonder how much of the blame or credit should be given to AGM Weisbrod ?  Anyways, the blame for everything goes back to Francesco for handcuffing his FO's to constantly chase the MEDIOCRE middle - FOR SHORT TERM PROFITS.

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/569255

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