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9 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

You're also the guy who can't hold a 3 post conversation without blowing your top and making personal attacks. I couldn't care less about what you think you know, because that last sentence is one of the most ignorant things I have ever read.

The constant ignorance and negativity that you and many others spew here, I've grown very sick of it. You're like the Drance of CDC. You cry and complain about anything and everything, without having any real solid way of backing it up. Prove to me Benning sucked, prove to me he was the worst thing to happen. Prove SOMETHING instead of blindly and ignorantly complaining "oooh waaah the prospect pool is crap". Um ya, I wonder why, maybe because he was busy fixing the lack of talent at the NHL level and was getting around to the farm system, but theres only so much you can do per draft to fix the issues. 

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Just now, AnthonyG said:

The constant ignorance and negativity that you and many others spew here, I've grown very sick of it. You're like the Drance of CDC. You cry and complain about anything and everything, without having any real solid way of backing it up. Prove to me Benning sucked, prove to me he was the worst thing to happen. Prove SOMETHING instead of blindly and ignorantly complaining "oooh waaah the prospect pool is crap". Um ya, I wonder why, maybe because he was busy fixing the lack of talent at the NHL level and was getting around to the farm system, but theres only so much you can do per draft to fix the issues. 

Then leave and spend your time more productively then starting conversations, and then resorting to acting like a child throwing a temper tantrum within a half page because someone disagrees with you.

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12 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

You're also the guy who can't hold a 3 post conversation without blowing your top and making personal attacks. I couldn't care less about what you think you know, because that last sentence is one of the most ignorant things I have ever read.

I can guarantee you, that when this team is competing and starting to contend, it will have been because of the work Benning did, not PA and JR. They will take over as Nonis and add some pieces here and there, but the main pieces that will make this team competitive, WHEN you allow them to actually gain experience and physically mature for a few years, because apparently that doesnt exist to you. 

 

You realize the 2010/11 team was LARGELY Brian Burke right??? and Nonis. Gillis had very little to do with the actual building of that team, instead he sacked the future and ruined us for years. 

 

ROME WASNT BUILT IN A DAY. Have some bloody patience.

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1 minute ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Then leave and spend your time more productively then starting conversations, and then resorting to acting like a child throwing a temper tantrum within a half page because someone disagrees with you.

OR how about you take your negativity and leave? Why live in such toxicity. Go outside, get some fresh air, maybe stop for a moment and actually digest the things I've laid out for you with facts and reality. You dont just draft an NHL team in one year. You dont draft your farm team the following year. You dont build and entire empire and win a cup in 3 years when you start from absolute scratch. Look around at the rest of the league and look at the teams who have been forever building, or how long it took the current top teams to build their contenders/cup winners. 10+ years for almost every single team thats competing right now. You gave Benning 7.

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2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

OR how about you take your negativity and leave? Why live in such toxicity. Go outside, get some fresh air, maybe stop for a moment and actually digest the things I've laid out for you with facts and reality. You dont just draft an NHL team in one year. You dont draft your farm team the following year. You dont build and entire empire and win a cup in 3 years when you start from absolute scratch. Look around at the rest of the league and look at the teams who have been forever building, or how long it took the current top teams to build their contenders/cup winners. 10+ years for almost every single team thats competing right now. You gave Benning 7.

My negativity? I gave an opinion and you started tossing insults in half a page. Take your own advice.

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Just now, MeanSeanBean said:

My negativity? I gave an opinion and you started tossing insults in half a page. Take your own advice.

We've had this conversation a few times now. You still don't get it. You don't understand.

Have some bloody patience. This season is over, its done. Why complain. Why talk about the past so much and bring it up. Benning aint here. He didnt Sign JT before Horvat, he didnt botch JT's trade value, no instead he handed this current group a MASSIVE trade chip that THEY f***ed up. Then they moved their captain, who has age on his side of the 2, better in the cirlce than 99% of the league and they signed more forwards and neglected the D. At least Benning TRIED with finding D to help. This group talked a big game and admitted what our issues were and then they come out and sign a bunch of forwards. It's brilliant. Knowing you're weakness and doing nothing about it and expecting to be a playoff team. lol. Then they draft another forward in the 1st round. 

 

Dude I'll say this again, I do not have an issue with the fact Benning got fired. Its the reasoning and ignorance to support these other "reasons" that are dead wrong. He was let go and I can understand that, because he HAS been here awhile. That's fine and fair. He DID accomplish a lot. 2 playoff appearances while rebuilding, drafted Demko, Virtanen, McCann, Tryamkin, Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin, Hoglander etc  etc. Theres still quite a bit of potention for guys he drafted to make the NHL and make an impact. Tryamkin may return the to the NHL, but he screwed Benning over and ran. Otherwise he would have still been an NHLer, Virtanen WAS progressing year by year, became utilized defensively in his final season, but ultimately threw his own career away. In Benning's time he accomplished a f*** ton more than 99% of GMs. Not only that, he won several trades that would have netted bigger returns had PA and JR utilized Garland and Miller in trades. I called for Garland to at his peak value as Hoglander makes Garland redundant, is younger, stronger, better hands and better shot. 

This management group is dropping the ball big time. 

 

I will apologize AGAIN to you, which you never took the time to read or acknowledge last time. I don't want to fight, I am okay with arguing, so long as you actually provide facts and real information that backs your point. If you are just going to blindly toss out opinions and nonsense, I'm gonig to let you have it.

Anyways, I'm sorry for being a dick, lets move forward and just take a look around the league and do some research yourself as I have and educate yourself on the rebuilds around the league and how every other rebuild had the advantage of at least having valuable trade chips.

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1 hour ago, spook007 said:

This was probably the biggest issue all along... 

He needed someone better than Linden as a PoHo... He was left to swim with way too many rookies in all positions.

I would argue, that he was left to deal with Francesco and Weisbrod.  Perhaps, in an alternate universe Gillis coule be the PoHO and JB the GM.

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19 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

I can guarantee you, that when this team is competing and starting to contend, it will have been because of the work Benning did, not PA and JR. They will take over as Nonis and add some pieces here and there, but the main pieces that will make this team competitive, WHEN you allow them to actually gain experience and physically mature for a few years, because apparently that doesnt exist to you. 

 

You realize the 2010/11 team was LARGELY Brian Burke right??? and Nonis. Gillis had very little to do with the actual building of that team, instead he sacked the future and ruined us for years. 

 

ROME WASNT BUILT IN A DAY. Have some bloody patience.

A GM is not a scout… Soon I start yelling like a God in Hockey if people don’t understand the difference between a scout and a GM.

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32 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Well, Boesers contract is short and he is still young… Why bother?

Millers contract is not an anchor contract yet.

Come back in five years and we can discuss further.

If you want to hold the second against them you should hold Islanders first for them.

Lekkerimäki has been sick/injured so let’s see in a few years.

 

The fourth line, hmm, one small point but since this is a middle year for evaluation the cheap players are mostle there to fill up the roster.

Let’s see wich players stay a couple years.

 

 

The Horvat trade, Tocchet, Abbotsford etc is way above the futile problems you see.

we were talking about the summers

PA has only had one summer

and it wasn;t good

I am happy with the Horvat trade and the first acquired

but I don't think you build a winning team with one good/one bad move

that is how you get to where we are right now - mediocre

 

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1 minute ago, Timråfan said:

A GM is not a scout… Soon I start yelling like a God in Hockey if people don’t understand the difference between a scout and a GM.

A GM with a scouting background. Do you follow? A GM takes info from his scouts, they work together and ultimately the GM goes with what he feels is best. Benning had a scouting background, Gillis had a player agent background, do you understand why JB had better drafting than Gillis? Take his top 5 picks away, he still found more talent.

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Just now, lmm said:

we were talking about the summers

PA has only had one summer

and it wasn;t good

I am happy with the Horvat trade and the first acquired

but I don't think you build a winning team with one good/one bad move

that is how you get to where we are right now - mediocre

 

Ok, just the summer . 
The team is supposed to be mediocre now. 
How can they change anything if not.

BB screwed their planning when they played so good when he came. 
Tocchet had to come in later than planned. 

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1 minute ago, AnthonyG said:

A GM with a scouting background. Do you follow? A GM takes info from his scouts, they work together and ultimately the GM goes with what he feels is best. Benning had a scouting background, Gillis had a player agent background, do you understand why JB had better drafting than Gillis? Take his top 5 picks away, he still found more talent.

So how many of the drafted top player is ackredited Benning?

Virtanen, Juolevi? 

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Just now, Timråfan said:

So how many of the drafted top player is ackredited Benning?

Virtanen, Juolevi? 

Benning came from one organization, scouting and working with their GM to our organization, 5 weeks prior to the draft. Our scouts put in their work, Benning didnt dismiss their work and the upside to Virtanen would have been very high. Virtanen was 1) limited in TOI with less than 14 mins TOI per game. Still put up 18g 18a and no PP1 time. Thats the coach not using him yet he was still scoring. His final season he had a sub 40% oZS. Meaning defensive zone duties after a season where he put up 18g 18a no PP1 time. Wtf???? In 35 games or whatever he played he was on the ice for 10 goals against total. TEN. That’s ridiculous. Also apparently it was FA that really wanted Virtanen, but for your arguments sake, we’ll pin it on the GM who just walked onto the job weeks prior to the draft.

Juolevi?? Do we blame the GM for his injuries after being drafted? Did he draft a guy with known health issues. No. Can Benning see the future. No. Do all 1st round picks turn into NHLers. No. Are all top 5 picks a guarantee to be stars. No.

Did he land us Demko? Yes.

Pettersson at 5? Yes

Hughes at 7? Yes

Boeser at 23? YUP

 

Give it 3 more years before you go all out on trying to tear Bennings draft work a part. 

 

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9 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Benning came from one organization, scouting and working with their GM to our organization, 5 weeks prior to the draft. Our scouts put in their work, Benning didnt dismiss their work and the upside to Virtanen would have been very high. Virtanen was 1) limited in TOI with less than 14 mins TOI per game. Still put up 18g 18a and no PP1 time. Thats the coach not using him yet he was still scoring. His final season he had a sub 40% oZS. Meaning defensive zone duties after a season where he put up 18g 18a no PP1 time. Wtf???? In 35 games or whatever he played he was on the ice for 10 goals against total. TEN. That’s ridiculous. Also apparently it was FA that really wanted Virtanen, but for your arguments sake, we’ll pin it on the GM who just walked onto the job weeks prior to the draft.

Juolevi?? Do we blame the GM for his injuries after being drafted? Did he draft a guy with known health issues. No. Can Benning see the future. No. Do all 1st round picks turn into NHLers. No. Are all top 5 picks a guarantee to be stars. No.

Did he land us Demko? Yes.

Pettersson at 5? Yes

Hughes at 7? Yes

Boeser at 23? YUP

 

Give it 3 more years before you go all out on trying to tear Bennings draft work a part. 

 

Because Benning was scouting or Boston does not meaan he depended soley on the Vcr scouts.He had the opinion of both the Boston annd Vcr amateaur scout. And I'm confident he has reached his own conclusions about Virtanen

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26 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Because Benning was scouting or Boston does not meaan he depended soley on the Vcr scouts.He had the opinion of both the Boston annd Vcr amateaur scout. And I'm confident he has reached his own conclusions about Virtanen

And thats fine, not every draft pick is a guarantee. The expectations of home run hits and best player in the draft with every pick we make is unrealistic. There were plenty of bad picks that 1st round in the top 10.

What about Boeser 23rd overall 2015?? Why does everyone focus on the ones that dont work out, rather than give credit to the later picks that turned into NHL players. Boeser is top 10 in scoring in his draft, 9th in goals and has 40+ less games played than everyone ahead of him? That was a Benning pick. Why isnt anyone giving props to snagging Boeser at 23rd? But they'll sit here and sh*t on him for drafting a flippin dman who got injured and needed multiple surgeries after being drafted. Sorry for not picking a forward again and going with a dman to try and build a blueline. Which OJ consistently ranked higher than Sergachev and Chychrun all year long. 

Go look at how many top 6 busts there has been since Benning took over as GM. 

2014 MDC 5OA

2015 Strome 3OA

2016 Puljujarvi 4OA

2017 Patrick 2OA, Glass 6OA

2018 Kotkaniemi 3OA, Hayton 5OA, Zadina 6OA

2019 Kakko 2OA, Dach 3OA, *Byram 4OA, Turcotte 5OA - Still a bit early on this draft class imo, but nonetheless doesnt look great for 4 of the top 6 picks. Byram has concussion issues which is concerning, however he still has potential to get healthy and have a solid career. 

 

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42 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Because Benning was scouting or Boston does not meaan he depended soley on the Vcr scouts.He had the opinion of both the Boston annd Vcr amateaur scout. And I'm confident he has reached his own conclusions about Virtanen

Say we swapped Virtanen and Boeser in drafts. Would anyone say sh*t about Boeser at 6? NOPE. Would anyone say sh*t about Virtanen at 23? Probably, but realistically it can be forgiven because its a later pick. However, we made up for Virtanen with Boeser. So to me its a wash. Didnt put us ahead, but didnt put us behind. Kept us even.

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19 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I mean...  Mike Milbury?

 

With the Islanders...

- Drafted Rick DiPietro 1st overall and moved on from Luongo (traded Luongo AND Olli Jokinen to Florida for Oleg Kvasha and Mark Parrish)

- Traded Mike Peca to the Oilers for Mike York

- Gave us Bertuzzi and McCabe for Linden

- Traded Zdeno Chara AND the 2nd overall pick to Ottawa for Alexei Yashin (then signed Yashin to a 10 year $90M deal)

 

Well, okay, Milbury is in a class all by himself as worst GM

But Benning is right up there. Milbury may have made more monumental mistakes, but with Benning it was quantity over quality of f-ups.  Which has got to even out the votes more.

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1 hour ago, kilgore said:

Well, okay, Milbury is in a class all by himself as worst GM

But Benning is right up there. Milbury may have made more monumental mistakes, but with Benning it was quantity over quality of f-ups.  Which has got to even out the votes more.

I'm not saying Benning didn't deserve to be fired, it was just time for him to go.  But saying he has left us with no prospect pool is a little false.  Gillis left us with no prospect pool.  At least with Benning we still have a few prospects.  Benning during his tenure also gave us a Top 2 ranked prospect pool during his time as GM.  Saying Benning was the worst GM ever is false.  We were a lot worse during the 80s.

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2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Ok, just the summer . 
The team is supposed to be mediocre now. 
How can they change anything if not.

BB screwed their planning when they played so good when he came. 
Tocchet had to come in later than planned. 

I take that to mean Bruce, not Brock. 

YOu mean JR and PA could not see the pig for the lipstick

ya, that's on them not Bruce

 

 they need to be bad, not mediocre now

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2 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

I'm not saying Benning didn't deserve to be fired, it was just time for him to go.  But saying he has left us with no prospect pool is a little false.  Gillis left us with no prospect pool.  At least with Benning we still have a few prospects.  Benning during his tenure also gave us a Top 2 ranked prospect pool during his time as GM.  Saying Benning was the worst GM ever is false.  We were a lot worse during the 80s.

Gillis was trying to win the Cup, so his job was to spend futures in hopes to do that. Benning was ... was ... I still don’t know what he was trying to accomplish be trading away so many high picks. 

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