CanucksJay Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, KyGuy123 said: It was $600k in “Cap space” but only $75k in salary owed dollars. Just call it $600k for a 4th in 2025. The $2million was pro rated Ok so basically 30% of a player's cap. If we have 7.6 in cap currently, are we saying that's worth like 4 x 4th rounders? Is that good? Would the thought be that if we are taking not 1.875 but more like 4m, that would go from a 4th to a 2nd? Maybe taking a 7.6 is worth a first? Like what's the actual max value of 7.6m? I would rather have 1 first rounder rather than 4 x 4th rounders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 11 minutes ago, KyGuy123 said: What? We have $7.6 million in Cap and if a team trades for either Kane or Toews at 50% retained we can also be a part of the trade and retain 50% for the other team. It’s what Minnesota just did to weaponize Cap space. $10 million dollar Toews at 50% retained going to Winnipeg for example puts his Cap at $5 million, if we also retain 50% for Winnipeg ($2.5) it put Toews Cap hit at $2.5 and then you pro rate it. Lucic you just trade for straight up for Picks, what do you not understand here Shooter? I don’t understand how you got better stuff on a Friday night than I did. You threw a big ‘if’ around and then went down the rabbit hole with other teams. How are the Nucks going to do all that? This isn’t the Proposal Thread bud. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyGuy123 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Ok so basically 30% of a player's cap. If we have 7.6 in cap currently, are we saying that's worth like 4 x 4th rounders? Is that good? Would the thought be that if we are taking not 1.875 but more like 4m, that would go from a 4th to a 2nd? Maybe taking a 7.6 is worth a first? Like what's the actual max value of 7.6m? I would rather have 1 first rounder rather than 4 x 4th rounders So if a team has 27 games left that is roughly 1/3 of the season left of an 82 game schedule. So if a player that makes 6 million like Tyler Myers for example has already played 2/3 of the season his contract now is only worth $2 million pro rated. By the trade deadline 1/4 of the season will only be left, that means 3/4 of his salery has been paid and Myers Cap to take on at the deadline is $1.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Just now, KyGuy123 said: So if a team has 27 games left that is roughly 1/3 of the season left of an 82 game schedule. So if a player that makes 6 million like Tyler Myers for example has already played 2/3 of the season his contract now is only worth $2 million pro rated. By the trade deadline 1/4 of the season will only be left, that means 3/4 of his salery has been paid and Myers Cap to take on at the deadline is $1.5 million. Yep I get the math. Just wondering if a 4th for a 2m (pro rated) cap is worth the value... Like what is the value of the 7.6 we are sitting on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyGuy123 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: I don’t understand how you got better stuff on a Friday night than I did. You threw a big ‘if’ around and then went down the rabbit hole with other teams. How are the Nucks going to do all that? This isn’t the Proposal Thread bud. Isn’t this thread based off “ifs”…. Literally read the title it’s about maybes and what ifs! Next time I’ll dumb it down a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, KyGuy123 said: Isn’t this thread based off “ifs”…. Literally read the title it’s about maybes and what ifs! Next time I’ll dumb it down a bit. You’re so cute. No, the thread isn’t ‘based’ off of ‘ifs’. It’s based off of nonsense. Literally, read the thread title yourself, it’s Pearson Put On LTIR, Is There A Trade In The Works? Please! Oh please, dumb it down for me please! Haven’t had nom nom in a long time. Please be that for me. Craving it. Edited February 18, 2023 by Sharpshooter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyGuy123 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Just now, CanucksJay said: Yep I get the math. Just wondering if a 4th for a 2m (pro rated) cap is worth the value... Like what is the value of the 7.6 we are sitting on It depends on the deal to be honest. If you take on Lucic that’s 7 million in cap ($2.33 pro rated) and you should get a 2nd I’d think at least. If you are a middle man and only help retaining half of $5 million I’d think a 2rd maybe again? I guess it all depends on how desperate the other team is to add the player, no contenders can do it by themselves without a team like us. As of today with the $7.6 we have it’s basically the same as $22.8 million worth of contracts at the beginning of the season. We could take Marner and Matthews without retention from the leafs with the $7.6 we have. That is an insane amount to have considering we are a Cap team. To me the value with pick return is supply and demand, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyGuy123 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: You’re so cute. No, the thread isn’t ‘based’ off of ‘ifs’. It’s based off of nonsense. Literally, read the thread title yourself, it’s Pearson Put On LTIR, Is There A Trade In The Works? Please! Oh please, dumb it down for me please! Haven’t had nom nom in a long time. Please be that for me. Craving it. Enjoy your night Brother. Not worth both of our breath here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, KyGuy123 said: It depends on the deal to be honest. If you take on Lucic that’s 7 million in cap ($2.33 pro rated) and you should get a 2nd I’d think at least. If you are a middle man and only help retaining half of $5 million I’d think a 2rd maybe again? I guess it all depends on how desperate the other team is to add the player, no contenders can do it by themselves without a team like us. As of today with the $7.6 we have it’s basically the same as $22.8 million worth of contracts at the beginning of the season. We could take Marner and Matthews without retention from the leafs with the $7.6 we have. That is an insane amount to have considering we are a Cap team. To me the value with pick return is supply and demand, How do we have capspace for 22.8 worth of contracts? I think we have 7.6 worth of contracts or 2.28 pro rated no? So like 1 Lucic? Just taking a quick peak, are we maybe getting ahead of ourselves here? Anaheim has like 60m, Buf and AZ have 80m even boston has 3.25. That was the first 4 teams alphabetically... There are so many teams that can take cap dumps no? I don't feel like we are anything special here... In fact there's a lot more teams in much better positions to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 10 minutes ago, KyGuy123 said: Enjoy your night Brother. Not worth both of our breath here. Damn you for not dragging it out. (I wasn’t going to) But, good night too. Cheers. Looking forward to your thoughts on the team bud. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, KyGuy123 said: It was $600k in “Cap space” but only $75k in salary owed dollars. Just call it $600k for a 4th in 2025. The $2million was pro rated 1.875M cap hit and 75K in salary. Cap space is also pro-rated so it's easier to just talk in full cap hits. There's also no pro-rata in LTIR as there's no banked cap space so the full cap hit has to fit into the LTIR cap space available. The trade happened with 30% of the season left to play. If a team was all season at 82.5M at the time of the trade - they've already used up 70% of 82.5M and only have 30% of 82.5M left. They can't be pro-rating his cap hit and not pro-rating their cap space. The Canucks are in LTIR so it's akin to them already having used up 70% of their available cap space for the season. CapFriendly prefers to talk in full cap hits. So they already factor in the pro-rata when they show deadline cap space. It's the amounts of full cap hits that can be added for the team to remain cap compliant at the end of the season. Edited February 18, 2023 by mll 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 1 minute ago, mll said: 1.875M cap hit and 75K in salary. Cap space is also pro-rated so it's easier to just talk in full cap hits. The trade happened with 30% of the season left to play. If a team was all season at 82.5M at the time of the trade - they've already used up 70% of 82.5M and only have 30% of 82.5M left. They can't be pro-rating his cap hit and not pro-rating their cap space. The Canucks are in LTIR so it's akin to them already having used up 70% of their 82.5M cap space - ie there's only 30% of cap space left. Can't pro-rate 1 side of the equation and not the other or they'll end up well above the cap. CapFriendly prefers to talk in full cap hits. So they already factor in the pro-rata when they show deadline cap space. It's the amounts of full cap hits that can be added for the team to remain cap compliant at the end of the season. Yeah this is how I was thinking too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyGuy123 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 13 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: How do we have capspace for 22.8 worth of contracts? I think we have 7.6 worth of contracts or 2.28 pro rated no? So like 1 Lucic? Just taking a quick peak, are we maybe getting ahead of ourselves here? Anaheim has like 60m, Buf and AZ have 80m even boston has 3.25. That was the first 4 teams alphabetically... There are so many teams that can take cap dumps no? I don't feel like we are anything special here... In fact there's a lot more teams in much better positions to do this? No our Cap space is not Pro rated that is what we have. We have $7.6 million. The only thing Pro rated is the contracts you trade for. If we get Lucic at $2.33 that leaves us with $5.27 million in Cap space left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyGuy123 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 19 minutes ago, mll said: 1.875M cap hit and 75K in salary. Cap space is also pro-rated so it's easier to just talk in full cap hits. There's also no pro-rata in LTIR as there's no banked cap space so the full cap hit has to fit into the LTIR cap space available. The trade happened with 30% of the season left to play. If a team was all season at 82.5M at the time of the trade - they've already used up 70% of 82.5M and only have 30% of 82.5M left. They can't be pro-rating his cap hit and not pro-rating their cap space. The Canucks are in LTIR so it's akin to them already having used up 70% of their available cap space for the season. CapFriendly prefers to talk in full cap hits. So they already factor in the pro-rata when they show deadline cap space. It's the amounts of full cap hits that can be added for the team to remain cap compliant at the end of the season. Yeah maybe I’m wrong. I understand deals get done at full Cap hit but I was going by a tweet that broke it down. In Minnesota’s case they only retained 25% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) - Edited February 18, 2023 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 16 minutes ago, KyGuy123 said: No our Cap space is not Pro rated that is what we have. We have $7.6 million. The only thing Pro rated is the contracts you trade for. If we get Lucic at $2.33 that leaves us with $5.27 million in Cap space left. Pro-ration is a moving thing literally on a day to day basis, based on the player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, KyGuy123 said: Yeah maybe I’m wrong. I understand deals get done at full Cap hit but I was going by a tweet that broke it down. In Minnesota’s case they only retained 25% Even the cap hit is pro-rated in the current year. The cap hit still incurs for the following years, with or without bonuses and what not. Cap hit is cap hit. But it can be prorated. Edited February 18, 2023 by Sharpshooter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTellTheTruth Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) Putting Pearson on LTIR now before the TDL increased the ability to move money essentially. Traded contracts are prorated to what is left as the cap is calculated as daily cap hits. Signing a college player and having him play right away has been done with this team three times while the team was capped out as signing bonuses are limited to 92K or so. Boeser, Hughes, Pettersson all signed in that current year's cap structure, two played that year. But the team could have waited to put Pearson on LTIR any time, that they did that before the TDL should indicate using that additional space now in a trade. If done later they could sign anyone but not necessarily played them due to the signing deadline if their "rights" were not already owned by the Canucks. I still think that this is significant that it was done now. They may not want to waste a retention spot but this does allow for adding a contract. They can use it for retention but I think that would be for trading an asset/player as a sweetener If they do use it for a three way deal where they are facilitating a trade I think that will be after they have exhausted moving their own players. It is just the suddenness of the action that attracts attention. And of course the complex TO trade happening within 24 hours. Edited February 18, 2023 by ToTellTheTruth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe Knows Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 12 hours ago, VegasCanuck said: So, you know I was being sarcastic, right... Yes, yes I do.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 2 hours ago, ToTellTheTruth said: Putting Pearson on LTIR now before the TDL increased the ability to move money essentially. Traded contracts are prorated to what is left as the cap is calculated as daily cap hits. Signing a college player and having him play right away has been done with this team three times while the team was capped out as signing bonuses are limited to 92K or so. Boeser, Hughes, Pettersson all signed in that current year's cap structure, two played that year. But the team could have waited to put Pearson on LTIR any time, that they did that before the TDL should indicate using that additional space now in a trade. If done later they could sign anyone but not necessarily played them due to the signing deadline if their "rights" were not already owned by the Canucks. I still think that this is significant that it was done now. They may not want to waste a retention spot but this does allow for adding a contract. They can use it for retention but I think that would be for trading an asset/player as a sweetener If they do use it for a three way deal where they are facilitating a trade I think that will be after they have exhausted moving their own players. It is just the suddenness of the action that attracts attention. And of course the complex TO trade happening within 24 hours. 6.6M that's roughly the combined cap hit for Josh Teves and Brogan Rafferty who the Canucks signed as NCAA free agents at the end of their college season back in 2018/19. Each signed a maximum 1 year ELC but with different signing dates. Josh Teves signed with 25 days left to the season. That ELC had a 1.5M cap hit. Brogan Rafferty signed the same contract with 4 days left to the season. That ELC had a 5.1M cap hit. The salary is pro-rated but not the bonus that is paid in full, so the pro-rata for the days left to the season has to be neutralised for the bonus. The cap hit is therefore: salary + [(days in the season / days left to the season) x signing bonus] so that when the pro-rata of the days left to the season is applied the salary does indeed equal pro-rated salary + full bonus. Their cap hits for that season are visible on CapFriendly here: https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/cap-tracker/canucks/2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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