Nuckin Kingsly Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 22 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Bear doesn't move the needle for me anymore. He's gonna want a $2.2-5 million deal. I'd rather use that money to get an actual top 4 Dman. Myers, Dermott, Bear, Burroughs can all leave. OEL needs to be bought out. That leaves Hughes as our only top 4 guy and then a couple of bottom pairing guys in Schenn and Stillman... I disagree with Bear completely. He had to adjust from getting plenty minutes in Edmonton to a sparely used 7th dman on a deep Carolina team. That’s gunna hurt your confidence a bit. Then getting dealt to Vancouver and having to learn a new system (not much of a system, but a system nonetheless). His fanned shots stepping in from the blue line can be tough to watch sometimes. But he is a good defender. And the metrics also show that with him and Hughes paired together, they are our best combination by miles. He’s got the battle and effort, good defensive iq and seems to always be in the right spot. He’s clearly been our second best defenceman this year. 2.5 mil for Bear would be a no brainer to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: From where/ what league? UFAs are where veterans come to get paydays and security (Gudbranson got $4 million with term last off-season). Most teams know who their studs are and won't offer them in trades, and it depends on where the team is before we ask if the trade is feasible (rebuilding teams move their vets for high picks, contenders won't make moves besides adding, and everyone's hanging onto their ELCs like the growth stocks they can be -- e.g., when Lafreniere was cold and people were rumoring that NYR would dump them, it was highly unlikely that happens, same with a guy like Bouchard even though he's stuck on PP 2 in Edmonton he's still young and an RHD; we'd be lucky if we can find a "Weegar-pending-UFA-to-Calgary" situation). Everyone wants that good value trade, but I think for Bear we should chalk it up as the win that it was, keep him and integrate him into the system instead of creating another hole in the roster, while we wait out Myers until next season and move him then (strongly against buying out OEL unless cap goes up by a lot or we're in great financial shape with all bad contracts gone by 2025-26 and 26-27, when his buyout cap hit will be $4.8 million per year). Bear shouldn't be anywhere near the top 4. Neither should Myers, OEL or Schenn. This is why our defence is so bad. We need legit top 4 Dmen. I don't want to pay Bear $2.5 million so he can play with Hughes and fill a spot. He shouldn't be in that position. JR needs to completely overhaul the D this summer. An OEL buyout would be the start of that. Moving on from Myers, Dermott and Bear continues that plan. The only 2 guys I would actually keep on the roster are Hughes and Stillman and maybe Schenn if he wants to come back. Stillman and Schenn are your bottom pairing guys. So we need THREE top 4 Dmen. We probably can't get all 3 in one summer, so most likely we have to run with Myers for one more year and then use that money in the summer of 2024. For this summer, we need to bring in Jake Livingstone and sign one UFA guy. I'd go hard after Ryan Graves. He would replace OEL on the second pairing. They you need to make a trade. Boeser, Hoglander, the Islanders 1st round pick are all in play. JR needs to hit a home run on a trade that brings in another top 4 Dman. Edited February 18, 2023 by Elias Pettersson 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Nuckin Kingsly said: I disagree with Bear completely. He had to adjust from getting plenty minutes in Edmonton to a sparely used 7th dman on a deep Carolina team. That’s gunna hurt your confidence a bit. Then getting dealt to Vancouver and having to learn a new system (not much of a system, but a system nonetheless). His fanned shots stepping in from the blue line can be tough to watch sometimes. But he is a good defender. And the metrics also show that with him and Hughes paired together, they are our best combination by miles. He’s got the battle and effort, good defensive iq and seems to always be in the right spot. He’s clearly been our second best defenceman this year. 2.5 mil for Bear would be a no brainer to me. Bear was the 7th Dman on Carolina but we are supposed to pay him $2.5 million to play with Hughes on the top pairing? That doesn't make any sense. Bear is a bottom pairing Dman. We don't need to pay him $2.5 million to be a 5/6 guy... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyLow_ Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 9 minutes ago, Nuckin Kingsly said: I disagree with Bear completely. He had to adjust from getting plenty minutes in Edmonton to a sparely used 7th dman on a deep Carolina team. That’s gunna hurt your confidence a bit. Then getting dealt to Vancouver and having to learn a new system (not much of a system, but a system nonetheless). His fanned shots stepping in from the blue line can be tough to watch sometimes. But he is a good defender. And the metrics also show that with him and Hughes paired together, they are our best combination by miles. He’s got the battle and effort, good defensive iq and seems to always be in the right spot. He’s clearly been our second best defenceman this year. 2.5 mil for Bear would be a no brainer to me. 100%, he's part of the solution for sure. Not flashy or capable of carrying a parrying but plays a role well and can defend. Him and Hughes are the only D-men on this team I ever care to see again. Possibly Schenn too if the price/term is low but he definitely needs to be flipped for a decent pick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Glad to see Wolanin get the call. Hope he gets a chance to play. He was one of the best LHD in camp, not including Hughes of course, and has been a force in Abby. Hope he can be a player for this team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 well deserved promotion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyLow_ Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 16 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Bear shouldn't be anywhere near the top 4. Neither should Myers, OEL or Schenn. This is why our defence is so bad. We need legit top 4 Dmen. I don't want to pay Bear $2.5 million so he can play with Hughes and fill a spot. He shouldn't be in that position. JR needs to completely overhaul the D this summer. An OEL buyout would be the start of that. Moving on from Myers, Dermott and Bear continues that plan. The only 2 guys I would actually keep on the roster are Hughes and Stillman and maybe Schenn if he wants to come back. Stillman and Schenn are your bottom pairing guys. So we need THREE top 4 Dmen. We probably can't get all 3 in one summer, so most likely we have to run with Myers for one more year and then use that money in the summer of 2024. For this summer, we need to bring in Jake Livingstone and sign one UFA guy. I'd go hard after Ryan Graves. He would replace OEL on the second pairing. They you need to make a trade. Boeser, Hoglander, the Islanders 1st round pick are all in play. JR needs to hit a home run on a trade that brings in another top 4 Dman. Stillman is absolute trash, there's not 1 thing he does better than Bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuckin Kingsly Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Bear was the 7th Dman on Carolina but we are supposed to pay him $2.5 million to play with Hughes on the top pairing? That doesn't make any sense. Bear is a bottom pairing Dman. We don't need to pay him $2.5 million to be a 5/6 guy... Lol that’s what you took out of it? Just because you are depth in one team, doesn’t mean that’s the player you will become or are. Bobrovski, recchi, samsonov, just to make a few that we’re waiver pickups. Not even depth players. He is a top four dman on some teams, and especially ours… you think we will just acquire a whole bunch of stud dmen within the year? With where we are with our cap? No… he’s a reliable defenceman that can be used accordingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnBurner Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Devron said: I’m gonna go as far to say along with Hughes, Stillman has looked (recently) like the only other NHL defencemen on this blueline True. As much as I busted his chops from the start, (and he deserved it) over the past seven games or so, he's actually evolved into a simple, stay at home type of D, who has been a nice surprise. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Never thought I would see the day that Stillman has more value than Dermott. The trade that didn't make sense at all was trading a 3rd round pick for Dermott... One more minus in the Allvinie column wasn't Allvin's first move, trading Hamonic and before the shine of that deal had faded he immediately went out and wasted the profit Kinda reminds me of Ol Jimmer swinging the Kesler deal, only to waste all his gains on that deal too oh, how things remain the same in Canuckleville Edited February 18, 2023 by lmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnBurner Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 23 minutes ago, FlyLow_ said: Stillman is absolute trash, there's not 1 thing he does better than Bear. He was absolute trash, no doubt. But his game, surprisingly, has improved over the past seven games, to the point where he is actually playing a steady game. And Bear does that too. They both have their faults, but for the most part, they are keeping it simple, which is better than being a tire fire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Devron said: I’m gonna go as far to say along with Hughes, Stillman has looked (recently) like the only other NHL defencemen on this blueline you have been watching the AHL too long 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnBurner Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Congratulations to Wolanin! He deserved to be here right out of training camp. I'm happy to see that they're giving him the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 49 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Bear shouldn't be anywhere near the top 4. Neither should Myers, OEL or Schenn. This is why our defence is so bad. We need legit top 4 Dmen. I don't want to pay Bear $2.5 million so he can play with Hughes and fill a spot. He shouldn't be in that position. JR needs to completely overhaul the D this summer. An OEL buyout would be the start of that. Moving on from Myers, Dermott and Bear continues that plan. The only 2 guys I would actually keep on the roster are Hughes and Stillman and maybe Schenn if he wants to come back. Stillman and Schenn are your bottom pairing guys. So we need THREE top 4 Dmen. We probably can't get all 3 in one summer, so most likely we have to run with Myers for one more year and then use that money in the summer of 2024. For this summer, we need to bring in Jake Livingstone and sign one UFA guy. I'd go hard after Ryan Graves. He would replace OEL on the second pairing. They you need to make a trade. Boeser, Hoglander, the Islanders 1st round pick are all in play. JR needs to hit a home run on a trade that brings in another top 4 Dman. You lost me at Schenn not belonging in the top-4. Livingstone would be a good add, whether he makes the team is another question, so let's be real here and not etch his name in stone among our top-4. Regarding Graves, he gets top-4/ 1st pair PK deployment in NJ on an upstart team, if they want to re-sign him I can't see him leaving (much less for a bottom-feeder like ourselves) so why do you think we can land him? This isn't fantasy or NHL 23, you can't just scoop any player you want because they're available, they have to want to be on your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 58 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Bear shouldn't be anywhere near the top 4. Neither should Myers, OEL or Schenn. This is why our defence is so bad. We need legit top 4 Dmen. I don't want to pay Bear $2.5 million so he can play with Hughes and fill a spot. He shouldn't be in that position. JR needs to completely overhaul the D this summer. An OEL buyout would be the start of that. Moving on from Myers, Dermott and Bear continues that plan. The only 2 guys I would actually keep on the roster are Hughes and Stillman and maybe Schenn if he wants to come back. Stillman and Schenn are your bottom pairing guys. So we need THREE top 4 Dmen. We probably can't get all 3 in one summer, so most likely we have to run with Myers for one more year and then use that money in the summer of 2024. For this summer, we need to bring in Jake Livingstone and sign one UFA guy. I'd go hard after Ryan Graves. He would replace OEL on the second pairing. They you need to make a trade. Boeser, Hoglander, the Islanders 1st round pick are all in play. JR needs to hit a home run on a trade that brings in another top 4 Dman. I was with you right up until you said "Isles 1st in play" this team has way too many holes to be trading 1sts like a 3rd line and a 4th line and a couple of big, fast space makers on the top 2 lines we are never going to trade for 3 top 4 defensemen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 19 minutes ago, lmm said: you have been watching the AHL too long We have, haven’t we 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 10 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: You lost me at Schenn not belonging in the top-4. Livingstone would be a good add, whether he makes the team is another question, so let's be real here and not etch his name in stone among our top-4. Regarding Graves, he gets top-4/ 1st pair PK deployment in NJ on an upstart team, if they want to re-sign him I can't see him leaving (much less for a bottom-feeder like ourselves) so why do you think we can land him? This isn't fantasy or NHL 23, you can't just scoop any player you want because they're available, they have to want to be on your team. Livingston is winning the Calder, Hart and Norris next season, it's just a matter of if it is with us btw who is this guy? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 12 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: You lost me at Schenn not belonging in the top-4. Livingstone would be a good add, whether he makes the team is another question, so let's be real here and not etch his name in stone among our top-4. Regarding Graves, he gets top-4/ 1st pair PK deployment in NJ on an upstart team, if they want to re-sign him I can't see him leaving (much less for a bottom-feeder like ourselves) so why do you think we can land him? This isn't fantasy or NHL 23, you can't just scoop any player you want because they're available, they have to want to be on your team. Schenn hasn’t been very good recently. Not saying he isn’t great to have on the team but recently he’s been burnt quite a bit 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 The medical staff should shut down all these players for the rest of the season. It isn’t like they would be pretending. These guys with lingering issues would be better off focussing on rehab and being ready for next year. Pearson was first, now we need to move Dermott, Poolman, and Demko onto LTIR for the rest of the season. This is the time of the year when you see non-playoff teams start scheduling all those minor surgeries and such that many players need but would otherwise put off to finish the season/playoffs. Once we do that, we have a ton of LTIR to weaponize at the deadline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, Devron said: Schenn hasn’t been very good recently. Not saying he isn’t great to have on the team but recently he’s been burnt quite a bit maybe Schenn is trying to tank his trade value maybe he is just thinking about babies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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