Anyone feeling more confident in the plan or direction that management sort of set for this team?

[eeeeergh]

13 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Maybe its just me but I am still confused as to what the management so far is trying to accomplish. I get what they got for Bo Horvat but maybe I am just shocked as to how low the value of some of the players we want traded has become. It's actually depressing. I just wish something could be done to improve our blueline beause its been a long time with the same group of players. I am pretty impatient right now just because I don't see how they improve it. It's a grind. A slow process I guess but man I thought this new management had some tricks up their sleeves but they just seem as exasperated as everyone else and they know its going to take way longer. Does anyone else feel confident in what's going on right now in terms of actually being able to be competitive in two years? I just don't see it. I just want to know everyone's confidence in this group right now?

Yup Ive felt pretty good about this management team for a while now. I agree with you that I wish they had done more to improve the blue line, but at the end of the day, I'm also VERY glad that they've been so stingy with assets and only pulled the trigger on good/free deals. In terms of asset management I'd say this management team has done a phenomenal job despite being dealt a terrible hand. 

 

Moves I've been very happy with:

- Signing and re-signing Kuzmenko (free 38 goal per season scorer?! And the contract he re-signed at?! Unreal.)

- Signing Mikheyev - a proper top-6 forward who gives us speed, penalty killing, defense, and can score 25 in a season

- Getting Bear for pennies on the dollar from Carolina

- Bo Horvat trade - Beauvillier has exceeded expectations, and we got a great 1st round pick + one of my favorite prospects in the league who I was choked we didn't draft ourselves

- Signing Filip Johansson, a FREE RHD prospect who looks great

- Drafting EP2 in the 3rd round of the draft

 

Moves Im okay with:

- Re-signing JT Miller. 8m is fair, and I was and still am of the opinion that I'd rather keep Miller than Horvat. But that's a long contract and the jury is out on how it'll age. 

 

Moves I didn't like:

- giving up a 2nd to get rid of Dickinson - but I suppose it had to be done to have the room to get Bear

- Lekkerimakki with our 1st. Personally dont think drafting a winger was the move, but they were going for BPA I guess. 

 

I know our top-6 wasn't an issue, but management did upgrade it without giving up assets, and re-stocked the cupboard with picks and added some great prospects. I believe the plan all along was to move on from Garland and Boeser, and I believe we got upgrades on both in Mikheyev and Kuzmenko.

[Junkyard Dog]

A lot of my thoughts are to be determined. 

 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

I think if they can add some dmen from the college level is a must. Jake Livingstone seems like a must just to add something for free. There is also a dman playing in sweden 6'4". I forget the name but I think it starts here and where they start to rebuild the d. If they lose out on some of these free guys it just feels like they are sleeping at the wheel which won't inspire me much.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Canuckfanforlife82

[OldFaithfulCap]

Next season will be the proof, though rebuilding the d-core/lower lines is the biggest issue.

 

We seem more committed to the tank and evaluating younger players but then we do things like send down Martin and bring up Di G and Wolanin/Brisebois (which we could have done when we were trying to make the playoffs).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Zero attention to defence is the issue. I'm sure it must be hard to trade for a defenceman, draft for a defenceman or sign a UFA, but other GMs find a way. I'm sure it's hard to move or manage OEL and Myers.

 

No excuses though when Minnesota has around 14M in dead cap and are in the playoffs. 

 

My biggest issue is the complete lack of focus on defence. We hear of so many rumours of our management targeting players or our own forwards being rumoured to be traded, yet not a single article about how our management is looking or head-hunting a defenceman.

 

This organization can do what they want up front but they'll never make the playoffs with this top-4 defence. Realistically Hughes is the only one who deserves to be there.

 

For those who say fixing the defence is too hard, we have such prime forwards to trade at our disposal, and other teams are desperate for them. We flipped arguably the best prize this TDL in Horvat for 2 young forwards and a first. If management dare draft a winger with that pick I think it sums them up to a tee...

[combover]

It’s Weird because I feel like I’ve seen this movie but with a different cast.- 

hire rookie Gm 
hire a inexperienced coach 

trade the second line Center 

get one addition 1st round pick 

say no rebuild but yes retool 

try to build around two players (younger this time atleast) 

With a lack of prospects and depth in every position.

 

 

I wish they’d just go all in. 
we aren’t remotely close to a cup team so there’s no value in keeping older players to watch them decline while the picks and prospects that they would return enter their primes. 
 

so  after years of slow removing the bandaid they’ll once again see nothings healed…again. 

better try this proven path to failure for a third time.
The 2027 edition …… 

 

 

 

 

[lmm]

14 hours ago, CanuckFan1123 said:

I don’t blame Benning for the OEL trade. I think Aquaman wanted to compete asap and forced Benning to make a big move. And tbh it wasn’t a bad trade. OEL had some great years earlier in his career and the possibility of a rejuvenation with a new team seemed like it had a shot and Garland seemed like a developing top 6 forward on a good contract. I think if this team was playing like they did when green got canned last year when Boudreau came in, no one would call this trade a bust because we’d be playoff bound. Unfortunately for us our organization is a constant train wreck. 

that is just wrong

the OEL trade was stupid

OEL was overrated at the best of times

At best he was going to give 2-3 years of solid defense, turns out he gave us one year

 

HOw is it that I can live in my mom's basement eating poptarts in my slippers and I could  (did) tell you it was a terrible trade the day it happened 

and yet dazzling fans like you can still defend it?

 Unfortunately our organization is a train wreck because it makes moves like the OEL trade or the Loui signing or letting Tanev and Markstrom walk for nothing or waiting too long to let go of Oli and Jake.  

that is why we are witnessing a train wreck, 

Its not magic, its bad moves by bad management

[The Lock]

It's hard to say at this point in my opinion. On one hand, we were able to trade Horvat for a reasonable return. On the other hand, we had to trade Horvat and I wonder if that could have been prevented.

 

To me, if this were a coin toss, the coin's currently still spinning and unable to land down on 1 side. I get they're in a cap situation while trying to improve the team, but management feels rather cold while doing it if that makes sense.

Edited February 23, 2023 by The Lock

[The Lock]

32 minutes ago, combover said:

It’s Weird because I feel like I’ve seen this movie but with a different cast.- 

hire rookie Gm 
hire a inexperienced coach 

trade the second line Center 

get one addition 1st round pick 

say no rebuild but yes retool 

try to build around two players (younger this time atleast) 

With a lack of prospects and depth in every position.

 

 

I wish they’d just go all in. 
we aren’t remotely close to a cup team so there’s no value in keeping older players to watch them decline while the picks and prospects that they would return enter their primes. 
 

so  after years of slow removing the bandaid they’ll once again see nothings healed…again. 

better try this proven path to failure for a third time.
The 2027 edition …… 

I feel this is almost the only time I've ever agreed with you but I actually agree. It does get tiring after a while.

 

I don't think a retool is necessarily bad, but if you mess it up you almost have nothing. Even if they mess up a rebuild, at least there are more higher end draft picks, or more draft picks period (in theory), that could claw a way out of whatever hole gets created.

[Ballisticsports.]

1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

A lot of my thoughts are to be determined. 

 

That's how management from both sides do trades though

If they both had exactly what they need, they wouldn't trade

Neither have the benefit of hindsight

I am on board (so far) and never expected a magic wand

 

[combover]

3 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I feel this is almost the only time I've ever agreed with you but I actually agree. It does get tiring after a while.

 

I don't think a retool is necessarily bad, but if you mess it up you almost have nothing. Even if they mess up a rebuild, at least there are more higher end draft picks, or more draft picks period (in theory), that could claw a way out of whatever hole gets created.

Agree with me…. 
I just checked out side and indeed pigs where flying 

lololololololol

Edited February 23, 2023 by combover

[ilduce39]

Current management needs to focus up here.  
 

They came in crapping on the team and coach, spent the offseason collecting wingers, re-signed Miller, sunk a 2nd to offload Dickinson so they’d have the room to trade for Bear, now they’ve turned around and traded the captain and…. maybe Schenn. 
 

It’s enough to give you whiplash.  That said, if they can make some moves here at the deadline / offseason and Demko can bounce back we could look like a young, up and coming hockey team again next year - OEL’s contract be damned.  But so so much work to do. 

[The Lock]

5 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Current management needs to focus up here.  
 

They came in crapping on the team and coach, spent the offseason collecting wingers, re-signed Miller, sunk a 2nd to offload Dickinson so they’d have the room to trade for Bear, now they’ve turned around and traded the captain and…. maybe Schenn. 
 

It’s enough to give you whiplash.  That said, if they can make some moves here at the deadline / offseason and Demko can bounce back we could look like a young, up and coming hockey team again next year - OEL’s contract be damned.  But so so much work to do. 

I feel like one of the problems is every GM comes in a craps on what the previous GM did. We saw it with Gillis. We saw it with Benning. We see it with Allvin. It's basically a GM marketing themselves as being able to "do better than the previous GM". It's a sale pitch basically. Unfortunately, with a sales pitch, it's all words before any actions can take place. 

[Harold Drunken]

Yes. 

 

They had to see what this team could do this season with a full year and camp under Bruce. The way last season ended, with the high winning % and positive play down the stretch under Bruce it would have made no sense to blow this up in the off season. Yes, they should have addressed the blueline in the offseason but the deals likely weren't there or they would have. Have to remember we already have one of the highest paid bluelines in the league, and spending more money back there wouldn't necessarily fix the problem...they would likely have had to move pieces out and my guess is that was the roadblock (OEL, Myers). I don't think they wanted a large, inflated blueline spending number. 

 

 They needed to see what this team could do this year to really determine which direction to go. It's clear they've obviously seen enough, and the changes have started. Trading your captain pretty much opened the flood gates. 

 

I trust Rutherford more than previous regimes here, he has a proven track record and cups with multiple franchises...he hasn't forgot how to do this. He's the best hope we've had in awhile as far as front office personnel go. We can sit here and cut him down all we want, he's a successful NHL executive who's won multiple cups and we haven't 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Harold Drunken

[DSVII]

These guys have the same direction as Benning. Turning things around quick. So no I don't believe in it.

 

They are better at executing said vision though With a tighter cap constraint. Got a 1st liner basically for free in kuz. Bear has been a good acquisition. Etc.. 

 

Im ambivalent i guess. I dont see the ceiling of this team after a 2 year turnaround being higher than a perrenial second round playoff team. Not a contender.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Devron]

Confident no but somewhat optimistic 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Not really, I expect more losing for a while before we get to the point where it's more winning 

I expect the same, but I feel okay about it. 

 

Losing this year and next would be the perfect sweet spot IMO. 

 

Top 5 pick in this deep draft with the Isles' 15th overall let's say, and 10th overall next year. That's our future 2nd line center and top d-men prospects if chips fall in our favour. 

 

Allvin and company have my confidence and the Bo Horvat deal was a major factor. 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, DSVII said:

These guys have the same direction as Benning. Turning things around quick. So no I don't believe in it.

 

They are better at executing said vision though With a tighter cap constraint. Got a 1st liner basically for free in kuz. Bear has been a good acquisition. Etc.. 

 

Im ambivalent i guess. I dont see the ceiling of this team after a 2 year turnaround being higher than a perrenial second round playoff team. Not a contender.

I think that every team in the league not named Arizona is expecting quick turnarounds.  

 

When you see Buffalo, Ottawa, Edmonton, etc suck year in year out for 5-6 years, it's just a sign that their first rebuild failed and they had to start all over again.  

 

I think that a lot of Canucks fans would be well served to reach out to Buffalo fans and talk rebuild. They have a very good perspective on it. 

[Bobby James]

Yeah so far it has been a little all over the place. When they came in I think they wanted a period to assess the full organization honestly and likely came away with lots of areas that need to be improve. 

 

As we all know D was the main area, but we can also likely determine things like speed, coaching/structure and cap were the other ones. 

So how have they done overall? For me I'd say average. Some moves I've liked and I think will be beneficial long term, others looks a little shaky. At this point it seems (hopefully) set that Petey and Hughes are the two main guys to build around. For us it felt clear for a while, but based on this season and how those two have continued to play during it all, hard to argue against them being the core. 

 

They added speed with some signings and trades they have done. That's good, but it also eats up cap. Coaching they changed and seemed to be unable to wait to bring their own guy in. I am fine with a new group in, but myself and I'd guess most of Vancouver didn't like how they handled it or even why bother doing it now and not in the offseason. Kuzmenko pitch and signing was excellent and I don't even mind the targeting of slightly older players who are still like 25 or younger and bringing them in to see if they pop off here. As long as the cost remains low to do so. 

 

Okay trading Bo overall was a good move imo. I love the guy, but no chance do I think he is an $8-$8.5 million dollar center for the next 8 years. Maybe I'll be wrong and he'll be this guy for a good chunk of the contract, but I guess we'll see. Beau is a decent young player, but not cheap. Raty looks okay on paper + is young, so hopefully he finds his game. The 1st round pick is great. 

 

I think the Miller signing was odd. I don't hate him, but he's also not my favorite player (especially his D this year) and I don't think he fits in with the age range or plan. That is a lot of money locked up into him, so if we end up sticking with JT I hope he can be a really good 2C for Van, but I think he'll need to have a big internal change to be effective into his 30s. I also didn't like giving up a pick to move Dickinson. 

 

The D... yeah they have done nothing with the D. We all feel this, it is the biggest issue on this team. OEL is worse this year compared to last which sucks. Overall just a mess back there and with our starting goalie hurt, it has just fully caved in for this club. I think they have tried to improve the D, so to be fair to them I know it isn't easy and a lot of teams are looking for similar pieces. We just have so much money/term in Dman that don't work here, so this will continue to be a tough problem to solve. I'd be pumped if we find a trade for Meyers, but if not at least there is only 1 more year until we get the 6 million freed. OEL is gonna be stuck here, so we need to work on revamping his play and pairing him with someone that will better compliment his style. 

 

What I want to see moving forward realistically is, trade Schenn this deadline (3rd round pick or better) then offer him a 2-3 year contract in offseason if he wants to come back. Trade Boeser or Garland for whichever can get you a better return without having to retain. One final move that is outside the realistic realm, I'd love for them to move Miller still. Get back a 1st maybe, but mainly clear that cap. Carolina and Pitts are two teams I think could be a fit for him with their window. 

 

Overall get more picks and prospects and build a competitive team around Petey and Hughes in the next couple years then try competing for the playoffs. It isn't a full rebuild as many of us have asked for over the years, but it isn't all doom and gloom. We're at rock bottom lol, so only way for this organization to go now is back up. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Bobby James

[GB5]

Currently NOT confident.

 

The Bo trade was a necessary move so good to see it executed but it was a long time in coming after a year of waiting for a significant move to shift the core of this team and a whole lot more work remains to be done.

 

Time will tell by the start of the 2023-2024 season if this group are able to successfully shed salary, gain draft picks/prospects and stop signing veterans to big deals instead of rebuilding by moving them.