[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at St. Louis Blues | Feb. 23, 2023

[lmm]

19 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

is the norris a scoring title? there have been 3 norris winner that were the scoring leaders for defenceman that year. and none of them are recent. all the norris trophy winners of recent indeed scores a lot but i don't think you can point and say any one of them are below average defensively.. i personally think they are all above average defensively and exceptional offensively.. otherwise tyson barrie should have won in 2020-2021 when he topped defenceman scoring.. or finish top 3 top 5.. but he didnt even get 1 single vote for norris..

 

i think the Norris trophy evolved that it no longer goes to the exceptional big hulking defenceman with exceptional defensive ability and average goal scoring to exceptional offensive ability with above average defence. so i think it's still very important to winning a cup till that trend is broken.

I would agree with you on Giordano, but disagree with Karlson, Subban and Burns

I kind of feel like some of these guys end up with a really good defensive partner, and that inflates their +/- enough to make them look better than they are 

but to your point Hedman and Fox are better than good defensively

Chara was a dominant player

[wai_lai416]

35 minutes ago, lmm said:

I would agree with you on Giordano, but disagree with Karlson, Subban and Burns

I kind of feel like some of these guys end up with a really good defensive partner, and that inflates their +/- enough to make them look better than they are 

but to your point Hedman and Fox are better than good defensively

Chara was a dominant player

i agree with you on karlsson subban and burns not that great defensively but when i say recent i'm prolly referring to the last 5 years when scoring seem to have taken off with the defenceman with the likes of makar hughes fox etc. i still think you need at the very least a norris caliber defenceman one that will be in the top 4-5 voting each year at the very least to win a cup. maybe carolina will break the trend as they dont really have a norris caliber defenceman on the team.. but the favorites again most of them have that defenceman on the team whether it's vegas colorado in the west, tampa boston and rangers in the east.. only exception is carolina and i dont think jersey is a contender yet. toronto and oilers will never win a cup with their defence.. they can win a round or 2 but they'll eventually be shutdown.

[lmm]

12 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i agree with you on karlsson subban and burns not that great defensively but when i say recent i'm prolly referring to the last 5 years when scoring seem to have taken off with the defenceman with the likes of makar hughes fox etc. i still think you need at the very least a norris caliber defenceman one that will be in the top 4-5 voting each year at the very least to win a cup. maybe carolina will break the trend as they dont really have a norris caliber defenceman on the team.. but the favorites again most of them have that defenceman on the team whether it's vegas colorado in the west, tampa boston and rangers in the east.. only exception is carolina and i dont think jersey is a contender yet. toronto and oilers will never win a cup with their defence.. they can win a round or 2 but they'll eventually be shutdown.

I totally agree with you

as I've said before, I think the NHL in a poser league

lots of teams look good in the reg season, but its the teams with big strong , and hopefully a Norris calibre defense that win the cups most often

Avs were a bit of an anomaly last year

I'm a bit surprised their defense didn't get blown out in the playoffs

and I would never feel comfortable if the Canucks were to depend on a D that small