[Trade] Blues trade Ivan Barbashev to Golden Knights for Zach Dean

[JayDangles]

3 hours ago, rekker said:

I can't agree. JT is the type of player we need moving forward with the franchise and a culture change. The contract doesnt bother me and five years from now OEL will be gone, the cap a lot higher. I get it though, there isn't much middle with JT, as a fan you love him or hate him and his contract. 

It does seem like he is a polarizing player and as a result you have fans that view him in polar opposite light.

 

He definitely does things that I like, but the things he does that I don't like are always bubbling under the surface. I just know the type of player he is, and if he starts drastically under performing his contract, he isn't going to be some easy going guy like OEL, he is going to become a very bad problem.

[rekker]

15 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

It does seem like he is a polarizing player and as a result you have fans that view him in polar opposite light.

 

He definitely does things that I like, but the things he does that I don't like are always bubbling under the surface. I just know the type of player he is, and if he starts drastically under performing his contract, he isn't going to be some easy going guy like OEL, he is going to become a very bad problem.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see JT entering OEL's stratosphere of suckage. But this is Canuckland

 

[JayDangles]

1 hour ago, rekker said:

I really hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see JT entering OEL's stratosphere of suckage. But this is Canuckland

 

I can see it in his last 3 years, simply because he does seem like the kind of guy who will mentally shut it down when the going gets too tough. 

[JayDangles]

3 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

There is absolutely no way a veteran presence is worth $56 mil. Surely it can be done cheaper.

Basically a Schenn but for forward. What we really need are veteran forward grinders. Guys like Ruutu, Torres, Lappierre, Dorsett, Roussell (when he wasn't a liability). Give this team a little edge. Sadly I do believe these types of players are all but run out of the league though.

 

But I truly believe if we have a real 4th line, the way they used to be, this team culture would fix itself, AND take a ton of heat off Petey.

Edited February 27, 2023 by JayDangles

[EdgarM]

9 hours ago, aGENT said:

I don't know how you would get that from what I wrote. The post you quoted, I clearly stated I hope Schenn is back this summer.

 

I have ZERO problem with quality vets. I have a major problem with vets signed to long term, big dollar, eventual inefficient contracts that will coincide with their play dropping off due to age related decline, right when we hope to be competitive.

 

Bring in all the short term and/or low dollar, gritty, leader, vets you want (Schenn being an excellent example) Happy to have them.

See that's where we differ, I am not a believer of a goon or a goon squad to do the dirty work for the pretty boys. The whole roster should be able to stick up for themselves as this is a contact sport where occasionally it gets physical. 

We have had that before and it doesn't work. Burrows was not the answer for the Sedins, even though I thought he was a great player for us.

Each line should be able to hold their own including the top lines.

We had a player(Ferlund) who single handedly eliminated us from the playoffs and that is not the only time, this franchise has had a number of occasions where we were beaten by intimidation and out muscled. 

Yes Schenn is great , but he can't do it himself. If a heavyweight needs to be dealt with then sure. 

Right now we have No One to allow Petey to do his magic. Hughes is way more comfortable with a good solid partner. 

I already stated if there is a younger replacement for Miller, fine , but he brings a lot of intangibles to the top 6 which is not easy to find. 

In order for Petey and Co. to flourish, I believe its imperative they have the right players around them to succeed.

[aGENT]

30 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

See that's where we differ, I am not a believer of a goon or a goon squad to do the dirty work for the pretty boys. The whole roster should be able to stick up for themselves as this is a contact sport where occasionally it gets physical. 

We have had that before and it doesn't work. Burrows was not the answer for the Sedins, even though I thought he was a great player for us.

Each line should be able to hold their own including the top lines.

We had a player(Ferlund) who single handedly eliminated us from the playoffs and that is not the only time, this franchise has had a number of occasions where we were beaten by intimidation and out muscled. 

Yes Schenn is great , but he can't do it himself. If a heavyweight needs to be dealt with then sure. 

Right now we have No One to allow Petey to do his magic. Hughes is way more comfortable with a good solid partner. 

I already stated if there is a younger replacement for Miller, fine , but he brings a lot of intangibles to the top 6 which is not easy to find. 

In order for Petey and Co. to flourish, I believe its imperative they have the right players around them to succeed.

What does any of that have to do with my post? Are you ok?

[EdgarM]

19 hours ago, aGENT said:

I don't know how you would get that from what I wrote. The post you quoted, I clearly stated I hope Schenn is back this summer.

 

I have ZERO problem with quality vets. I have a major problem with vets signed to long term, big dollar, eventual inefficient contracts that will coincide with their play dropping off due to age related decline, right when we hope to be competitive.

 

Bring in all the short term and/or low dollar, gritty, leader, vets you want (Schenn being an excellent example) Happy to have them.

 

10 hours ago, EdgarM said:

See that's where we differ, I am not a believer of a goon or a goon squad to do the dirty work for the pretty boys. The whole roster should be able to stick up for themselves as this is a contact sport where occasionally it gets physical. 

We have had that before and it doesn't work. Burrows was not the answer for the Sedins, even though I thought he was a great player for us.

Each line should be able to hold their own including the top lines.

We had a player(Ferlund) who single handedly eliminated us from the playoffs and that is not the only time, this franchise has had a number of occasions where we were beaten by intimidation and out muscled. 

Yes Schenn is great , but he can't do it himself. If a heavyweight needs to be dealt with then sure. 

Right now we have No One to allow Petey to do his magic. Hughes is way more comfortable with a good solid partner. 

I already stated if there is a younger replacement for Miller, fine , but he brings a lot of intangibles to the top 6 which is not easy to find. 

In order for Petey and Co. to flourish, I believe its imperative they have the right players around them to succeed.

 

9 hours ago, aGENT said:

What does any of that have to do with my post? Are you ok?

What I am saying is that you need a "PACK MENTALITY" and in order to do that , you need more then a couple of cheap goons to do your dirty work for you. 

Think Byfuglin, or Pronger or Jamie Benn etc. 

Find top 6 forwards or top 4 defenseman who can hold their own and will be the first ones in a scrum.

There are not many of them. My concern is Petey and Hughes NOW! Not a couple of years from now. 

We have always had just a couple of tougher guys and a whole bunch of smaller , non aggressive players. Wonderful in the regular season but we kinda get pushed around, especially in the playoffs. We need a change in the way we do business. 

Not convinced? See how much TB paid for Jeannot.

[aGENT]

16 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

 

What I am saying is that you need a "PACK MENTALITY" and in order to do that , you need more then a couple of cheap goons to do your dirty work for you. 

Think Byfuglin, or Pronger or Jamie Benn etc. 

Find top 6 forwards or top 4 defenseman who can hold their own and will be the first ones in a scrum.

There are not many of them. My concern is Petey and Hughes NOW! Not a couple of years from now. 

We have always had just a couple of tougher guys and a whole bunch of smaller , non aggressive players. Wonderful in the regular season but we kinda get pushed around, especially in the playoffs. We need a change in the way we do business. 

Not convinced? See how much TB paid for Jeannot.

Where did I ever say we didn't need pushback throughout the lineup? Seriously, you ok?

[EdgarM]

19 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Where did I ever say we didn't need pushback throughout the lineup? Seriously, you ok?

You said we didn't need a "Big Dollar" guy like Miller but a Schenn(low dollar) would be fine with you. Your top 9 guys are typically not cheap so how would you get some toughness in the top 9 without paying them. They obviously need to bring a lot more to the table other then toughness. They probably need to be able to skate and put the puck in the net on occasion. So am I misreading your logic? 

[aGENT]

38 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

You said we didn't need a "Big Dollar" guy like Miller but a Schenn(low dollar) would be fine with you. Your top 9 guys are typically not cheap so how would you get some toughness in the top 9 without paying them. They obviously need to bring a lot more to the table other then toughness. They probably need to be able to skate and put the puck in the net on occasion. So am I misreading your logic? 

Yes.

[c00kies]

21 hours ago, aGENT said:

Key word being type.

 

 

Not true. I love the current player, and his extension is below market value. Just simply not a fit with our timeline. It's an entirely situational problem.

I think if we didn't have OEL (and other big deals for underperforming misfits like Boeser, Garland, and Myers), then JT could stay and make sense. 

 

We just have too many bad contracts that prevent us from fixing our defense and being a balanced team.

[EdgarM]

10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yes.

Ok my mistake. My apoplogies.

[EdgarM]

3 minutes ago, c00kies said:

I think if we didn't have OEL (and other big deals for underperforming misfits like Boeser, Garland, and Myers), then JT could stay and make sense. 

 

We just have too many bad contracts that prevent us from fixing our defense and being a balanced team.

Yes we are in the midst of cleaning up a mess left behind. I don't think Miller is ideal either(age) but he is what has been left for the incoming regime.

Same with Schenn. He is older but take away those two and what do we have left? 

If we can trade what we have for improvements for the team as whole, I am all for it. Right now we have to make do with what we have until the right opportunities present themselves.

I think the main objective is to bring in support players for Petey and Hughes and right now that is Miller until we can upgrade him somewhere down the road.

It does help that he is on a team friendly contract in case he decides he wants to play somewhere else or if the team may have to facilitate a trade. He will be a desirable commodity for at least the next few years.