Josh Bloom | LW

[Fred65]

21 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Our scouting department wasn't gutted. 

 

Todd Harvey is still the head of our amateur scouting. 

 

We just witnessed a 7th round pick score a goal yesterday. I think your view of our amateur scouting is way too pessimistic. 

 

Our OHL scouting has selected Conor Lockhart, the defenseman named Kirill. I trust them in Josh Bloom and he looks like a great forward prospect that we have very little of in our system. 

Quite a number of chnages in the amateur scouting but surprisingly none I can see in the Pro scouting.

 

Scouting Staff | Vancouver Canucks (nhl.com)

Edited April 1, 2023 by Fred65

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

On 4/1/2023 at 12:40 PM, Fred65 said:

Quite a number of chnages in the amateur scouting but surprisingly none I can see in the Pro scouting.

 

Scouting Staff | Vancouver Canucks (nhl.com)

That’s interesting, since pro scouting seems to be one of the areas that most people perceive to have really improved with this team, despite no significant staffing changes at the scouting level. Maybe when AGM Clancey did his review, he found that the pro scouts themselves were doing strong work and providing good information, but that the guys at the top (ie: management level) in the former regime weren’t processing and utilizing the scouts’ input very well, when they actually made their decisions on player acquisitions?

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

That’s interesting, since pro scouting seems to be one of the areas that most people perceive to have really improved with this team, despite no significant staffing changes at the scouting level. Maybe when AGM Clancey did his review, he found that the pro scouts themselves were doing strong work and providing good information, but that the guys at the top (ie: management level) in the former regime weren’t processing and utilizing the scouts’ input very well, when they actually made their decisions on player acquisitions?

I would strongly believe that to be the case based on certain reports that came out after.

 

Benning and Weisbrod took on a lot of the scouting themselves and seemed to be on an island together at times.

 

This group seems to be much more collaborative based on the early glimpses we’ve gotten of their scouting meetings.

[hammertime]

4 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Not too surprising, considering how much of a man-crush he had for OEL and how (if rumours are true) his stubborn decision to sign Beagle and Roussel was the catalyst to Linden leaving the team - as well as subsequent issues with Brackett.  In a way, GMJB was like a little Napoleon, without the intellect and with his hand down a different pocket.

I have no issue with Beagle Roussel together they cost about 1-1.5m too much it wasn't disastrous and we really needed those guys to play those mins. A healthy Roussel and Ferland would have been something to watch. Unfortunately it never came to be Ferlands melon and Rooosters knees. But the place from where the idea was concieved was sound. Without Beags our Pk reached historically bad levels. 

 

JB bookended his tenure with his worst moves Loui and OEL in-between there were some positives.  

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

25 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I would strongly believe that to be the case based on certain reports that came out after.

 

Benning and Weisbrod took on a lot of the scouting themselves and seemed to be on an island together at times.

 

This group seems to be much more collaborative based on the early glimpses we’ve gotten of their scouting meetings.

It’s interesting how the Canucks stopped doing those “all access” videos of their war room and draft preparations during the period when Benning and Weisbrod reportedly started acting like “an island.” Would love to have been a fly on the wall during those meetings.

[Fred65]

2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

That’s interesting, since pro scouting seems to be one of the areas that most people perceive to have really improved with this team, despite no significant staffing changes at the scouting level. Maybe when AGM Clancey did his review, he found that the pro scouts themselves were doing strong work and providing good information, but that the guys at the top (ie: management level) in the former regime weren’t processing and utilizing the scouts’ input very well, when they actually made their decisions on player acquisitions?

IMO a lot of of the choices were made by JB him being more of a one man crew. Some thing that was needed was a debate and discussion how things would be done and by whom. For instance Brackett went through a scouting process with his amateur scouts and set "the system" up for years to come. By  delegating different assistant manger to specific task IMO is paying dividends. Reretfully most of JB decissions were base ( or so it seemed ) on what players were like in their junior day when JB watched them, it simply didn't work. The game chnaged the then juniors chnaged and the result was poor decissions. JR seeems, seems, like he giving some autonomy to his new AGM's

Edited April 3, 2023 by Fred65

[Guest]

2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

It’s interesting how the Canucks stopped doing those “all access” videos of their war room and draft preparations during the period when Benning and Weisbrod reportedly started acting like “an island.” Would love to have been a fly on the wall during those meetings.

They stopped doing those during the pandemic... Although there was a brief one done in 2020. 

 

I think that pandemic was the factor here, not them being on an island lol 

[Guest]

On 4/1/2023 at 12:40 PM, Fred65 said:

Quite a number of chnages in the amateur scouting but surprisingly none I can see in the Pro scouting.

 

Scouting Staff | Vancouver Canucks (nhl.com)

I completely missed some of those amateur scouting names being brought in. 

 

I remember them letting go of some low scouts that were more responsible for putting reports together, but I see at least four names on there that I hadn't heard about before (amateur side). 

 

I was wrong about the amateur side then. 

[RayCathode]

6 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

That’s interesting, since pro scouting seems to be one of the areas that most people perceive to have really improved with this team, despite no significant staffing changes at the scouting level. Maybe when AGM Clancey did his review, he found that the pro scouts themselves were doing strong work and providing good information, but that the guys at the top (ie: management level) in the former regime weren’t processing and utilizing the scouts’ input very well, when they actually made their decisions on player acquisitions?

Pro scouting depends entirely on the instructions they are given. For instance, "Find an undervalued right shot defenceman in his early to mid twenties." "Find a forward who can improve team speed and the penalty kill." And pro-scouting feeds back Hronek and Mikheyev. If you tell them to go get you a worn out, over priced D that will strangle the franchise for the next eight  years, then they will come back with some bum from Arizona and an overpriced small forward. I find it interesting that three of these players have long term injuries and that we have a history of this over the past few years Baertschi, Ferland, Dermott, Poolman, and now Hronek and Mikheyev. Is that a reflection on our pro scouting? It depends s lot on how Hronek and Mikheyev turn out. If these players fall into the tradition of the above, we have a problem.

[Boudrias]

20 hours ago, Fred65 said:

IMO a lot of of the choices were made by JB him being more of a one man crew. Some thing that was needed was a debate and discussion how things would be done and by whom. For instance Brackett went through a scouting process with his amateur scouts and set "the system" up for years to come. By  delegating different assistant manger to specific task IMO is paying dividends. Reretfully most of JB decissions were base ( or so it seemed ) on what players were like in their junior day when JB watched them, it simply didn't work. The game chnaged the then juniors chnaged and the result was poor decissions. JR seeems, seems, like he giving some autonomy to his new AGM's

All true. I would add that poor drafting and player development existed before the Benning era as well. 

[Alflives]

39 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

All true. I would add that poor drafting and player development existed before the Benning era as well. 

Gillis was using draft capital to try and win the Cup. His era was far different from Benning, who used draft capital in hopes to make the playoffs. Gillis was our best ever GM, and it's not that close, considering the success of his clubs. 

The new management seems a lot more aligned with Gillis in that they have a core in place and are smart. So hopes are high they can be as good as him and we will have a great team again soon. 

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Gillis was using draft capital to try and win the Cup. His era was far different from Benning, who used draft capital in hopes to make the playoffs. Gillis was our best ever GM, and it's not that close, considering the success of his clubs. 

The new management seems a lot more aligned with Gillis in that they have a core in place and are smart. So hopes are high they can be as good as him and we will have a great team again soon. 

A coule of years back Gillis was interviewed on a radio show. He was asked would he like to be a GM again and said yes but only  under his own rules. First  He admitted the scouts werenot up to par and he should have moved earlier. But here's the real thing. He stated he would only manage if he could appoint a number of AGM's to handle different aspects of the business ie scouting, capoligist, contract negoiator so on and so forth. This is exactly the way JR has set up the current management team. Gillis as usual was way ahead of the pack. A very smart man that was feqquently despised simply because he didn't suufer fools lightly and to some appeared arrogant.  IMO he had an academic approach to hockey managment, he studied a problem rather than simply react in a standard method

[Diamonds]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

A coule of years back Gillis was interviewed on a radio show. He was asked would he like to be a GM again and said yes but only  under his own rules. First  He admitted the scouts werenot up to par and he should have moved earlier. But here's the real thing. He stated he would only manage if he could appoint a number of AGM's to handle different aspects of the business ie scouting, capoligist, contract negoiator so on and so forth. This is exactly the way JR has set up the current management team. Gillis as usual was way ahead of the pack. A very smart man that was feqquently despised simply because he didn't suufer fools lightly and to some appeared arrogant.  IMO he had an academic approach to hockey managment, he studied a problem rather than simply react in a standard method

Gillis is definitely a smart guy who made a lot of enemies around the league. I don't know if it's because he came from being a player agent but it was pretty clear other GMs didn't like dealing with him and it got worse as his tenure went on. He also pushed back on the league regarding our travel schedule which I don't think did him any favors there.

 

Interesting to see him say we wants more AGMs though because he did have Gilman as his capologist while here and I think Henning was his AGM on the scouting/player communication side.

[Fred65]

7 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Gillis is definitely a smart guy who made a lot of enemies around the league. I don't know if it's because he came from being a player agent but it was pretty clear other GMs didn't like dealing with him and it got worse as his tenure went on. He also pushed back on the league regarding our travel schedule which I don't think did him any favors there.

 

Interesting to see him say we wants more AGMs though because he did have Gilman as his capologist while here and I think Henning was his AGM on the scouting/player communication side.

Strangely enough Gillis was voted by his peers as the top GM in the league ( Jim Gregory award ) the problem for many is Gillis out smarted many and it hurt their feeling  ..... LOL I admit it did mean many were scared to make a deal with him

[Guest]

How about that Josh Bloom guy 

[Alflives]

14 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

How about that Josh Bloom guy 

Acquiring Bloom was a very Gillis like move. 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

How about that Josh Bloom guy 

He's lost in the miscellaneous thread

somewhere.

[VegasCanuck]

8 hours ago, Alflives said:

Gillis was using draft capital to try and win the Cup. His era was far different from Benning, who used draft capital in hopes to make the playoffs. Gillis was our best ever GM, and it's not that close, considering the success of his clubs. 

The new management seems a lot more aligned with Gillis in that they have a core in place and are smart. So hopes are high they can be as good as him and we will have a great team again soon. 

I would strongly disagree with ya Alf, Gillis would have been better suited to being President and leave GM to someone better at trading and drafting. 

 

I've done the math, of the team that went all the way to game 7 against Boston, more than 78% of all minutes and point production came from guys who were added to the team by Dave Nonis or Brian Burke. Gillis added some nice support people, but that could have been. handled by a lot of different GMs. His swing for the fences in holding out to sign Sundin likely cost us other UFAs who could have helped immediately.  His other swing for the fences trade in adding Keith Ballard was a massive failure as well.

 

Gillis has been over rated because he was at the helm when we went to the Cup, but he did not assemble the core that did it.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I would strongly disagree with ya Alf, Gillis would have been better suited to being President and leave GM to someone better at trading and drafting. 

 

I've done the math, of the team that went all the way to game 7 against Boston, more than 78% of all minutes and point production came from guys who were added to the team by Dave Nonis or Brian Burke. Gillis added some nice support people, but that could have been. handled by a lot of different GMs. His swing for the fences in holding out to sign Sundin likely cost us other UFAs who could have helped immediately.  His other swing for the fences trade in adding Keith Ballard was a massive failure as well.

 

Gillis has been over rated because he was at the helm when we went to the Cup, but he did not assemble the core that did it.

We agree. Gillis took an existing core and used every means available to build a great supporting cast so that core could reach greatness. The club’s record shows that. That was his job and he did it well. 
Benning was given an impossible task. Our owner directed him to rebuild a new core, retool the supporting cast, and do both while still trying to compete. Fortunately we came out of those 8 years with a nearly complete new core. 
The new management team completed the Benning core by adding Hronek. And they continue to retool the supporting cast. I truly believe they will go one win better than Gillis and bring our club the Cup.