awalk Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Very smart deal by Dubas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: While he's not having a great season this is just factually incorrect, the issue we have here is OEL, Hughes and Myers play virtually the same way and outside Schenn we have literally no one else to defensively offset the other 2 of the 3. This is a case of a bad mix not necessarily bad players. Keep my Huggy’s name out your ****ing mouth! (I get what you’re saying and actually agree with the main point. Just disagree strongly that Hughes plays “virtually the same way” to either OEL or Myers. And I will accept no such Hughes slander here or anywhere else on these boards. ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 38 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Rielly is perfectly fine as a puck mover PP specialist, adding someone like Schenn would 100% be great move to pair with Rielly. Not every defenseman has to be a bland stay at home stalwart. Rielly is fine and absolutely an NHLer despite not being a great defender. Ludicrous to suggest otherwise. Every defenceman needs to be able to play at least some defence. Toronto allowing Rielly to play like complete trash in his own end with zero consequences is precisely why he's still a huge liability and costing them in there playoffs when opposing coaches can exploit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Man, PA has zero idea how to play his hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 3 hours ago, King Heffy said: Every defenceman needs to be able to play at least some defence. Toronto allowing Rielly to play like complete trash in his own end with zero consequences is precisely why he's still a huge liability and costing them in there playoffs when opposing coaches can exploit it. This statement is completely false in today's age. You are holding a view that has been long abandoned in the NHL for some time now. Erik Karlsson and Morgan Rielly are two of the most valuable D-men in the NHL. Karlsson, who is likely THE worst defender in the entire league, is going to win the Norris Trophy. In case you haven't noticed, the league has shifted towards high octane offense, and puck-moving blueliners are an absolute must now. Even the purest of shutdown D-men (which is a dying breed now, btw) need to know how to move the puck. We've seen this trend in soccer too. I'm surprised you still haven't noticed it in hockey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 58 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said: This statement is completely false in today's age. You are holding a view that has been long abandoned in the NHL for some time now. Erik Karlsson and Morgan Rielly are two of the most valuable D-men in the NHL. Karlsson, who is likely THE worst defender in the entire league, is going to win the Norris Trophy. In case you haven't noticed, the league has shifted towards high octane offense, and puck-moving blueliners are an absolute must now. Even the purest of shutdown D-men (which is a dying breed now, btw) need to know how to move the puck. We've seen this trend in soccer too. I'm surprised you still haven't noticed it in hockey. And how many cups have these guys won? You can't win with a defencemen who can't play defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 3 hours ago, stawns said: Man, PA has zero idea how to play his hands he played his hand into an nhl gm gig -- did you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 hour ago, King Heffy said: And how many cups have these guys won? You can't win with a defencemen who can't play defence. You don't need to win a cup to be an elite player in the NHL.... Did Shea Weber fail to win because he couldn't defend? Giordano? Josi?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said: You don't need to win a cup to be an elite player in the NHL.... Did Shea Weber fail to win because he couldn't defend? Giordano? Josi?? But you also don't win cups with defencemen who can't play defence. Guys like Rielly just get exposed in the playoffs by skilled coaching and hurt their team far much in their own zone to be anything more than a complete liability. Just because some teams think playing like this is acceptable does not mean it is a good idea. You can't provide offence when you're fishing the puck out of your own net because you never learned how to play in the defensive zone without embarrassing yourself. The position is called defence for a reason and there is a minimum standard that needs to be acceptable in order to belong on an actual NHL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Credit to Dubas, he fixed their D and scored a first in the process. Schenn and Gustafsson are solid veteran defencemen. The Canucks needed this sort of swagger months ago to fix the D and we failed and it's lead us to where we are today. Dubas on the other hand identifies a team weakness and fixes it instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said: This statement is completely false in today's age. You are holding a view that has been long abandoned in the NHL for some time now. Erik Karlsson and Morgan Rielly are two of the most valuable D-men in the NHL. Karlsson, who is likely THE worst defender in the entire league, is going to win the Norris Trophy. In case you haven't noticed, the league has shifted towards high octane offense, and puck-moving blueliners are an absolute must now. Even the purest of shutdown D-men (which is a dying breed now, btw) need to know how to move the puck. We've seen this trend in soccer too. I'm surprised you still haven't noticed it in hockey. How many Cups has Karlsson won? How many has Duncan Keith or Hedman won? I get that the league is faster and more offence-based, but in the playoffs you have to be able to defend first, score later. Your top defenceman ends up playing 25+ minutes a night against the top two offensive lines and they have to be able to shut them down so that your forwards can outscore them. In the regular season offence and PP matters more but in the playoffs, those Cup winners on defence are usually solid defensively first. The only anomaly I can think of is maybe Makar recently but that Avs team was just stacked across the board, and Makar is pretty sound defensively too. You never see a Brodie/Karlsson-like guy do well in the playoffs though because they'd just get feasted on defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 7 hours ago, King Heffy said: But you also don't win cups with defencemen who can't play defence. Guys like Rielly just get exposed in the playoffs by skilled coaching and hurt their team far much in their own zone to be anything more than a complete liability. Just because some teams think playing like this is acceptable does not mean it is a good idea. You can't provide offence when you're fishing the puck out of your own net because you never learned how to play in the defensive zone without embarrassing yourself. The position is called defence for a reason and there is a minimum standard that needs to be acceptable in order to belong on an actual NHL team. Again - if Rielly or Karlsson (who is better offensively but even worse defensively) isn't good enough to belong in the NHL, why are they constantly brought up and paid like top-tier D-men? People here don't think you're crazy because you value defending over attacking. They think you're crazy because you think Jack Johnson or even RILEY STILLMAN is a more valuable D-man to their team because their defensive analytics (something you don't believe in, btw) are better than Rielly's. Even OEL has better defensive analytics, and he's on a similar contract. You're going to tell us that OEL is a more valuable player than Rielly? He is a valuable tank commander, sure... 5 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: How many Cups has Karlsson won? How many has Duncan Keith or Hedman won? I get that the league is faster and more offence-based, but in the playoffs you have to be able to defend first, score later. Your top defenceman ends up playing 25+ minutes a night against the top two offensive lines and they have to be able to shut them down so that your forwards can outscore them. In the regular season offence and PP matters more but in the playoffs, those Cup winners on defence are usually solid defensively first. The only anomaly I can think of is maybe Makar recently but that Avs team was just stacked across the board, and Makar is pretty sound defensively too. You never see a Brodie/Karlsson-like guy do well in the playoffs though because they'd just get feasted on defensively. TJ Brodie? His offensive production has dried up for some time now, but his defensive output is better than ever. If there was an award for best defensive defenceman, he would be a dark horse candidate - although someone like Jonas Brodin is far more deserving of it. I really don't understand why a pure offensive D-man like Rielly or Karlsson (not Makar, who is pretty reliable defensively) doesn't belong in the NHL because they're not as good as someone like prime Keith or Hedman. Those guys are no-doubt, first ballot Hall of Famers. You've mentioned two of the greatest hockey players to ever play the game. Erik Karlsson is also going to belong in that category, even if he never plays in the postseason again. I expect him to win his third Norris trophy by the end of this year. Do you think that he and Rielly are AHL-caliber players because they don't have Stanley Cups and can't defend? That's what @King Heffybelieves, verbatim. Yes - playoffs reward physical play and defensive discipline because of injuries and lenient reffing. A defenceman's job is to contribute to wins, whether it's in the regular season or playoffs. Makar's reliable defensive play was important in helping his team win the cup, but his offensive production is what everyone remembers, and why he won the Norris/Conn Smythe. He was the one who feasted on any forward or defender trying to maintain him. Not even the blueline could stop Makar last year from scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said: Again - if Rielly or Karlsson (who is better offensively but even worse defensively) isn't good enough to belong in the NHL, why are they constantly brought up and paid like top-tier D-men? People here don't think you're crazy because you value defending over attacking. They think you're crazy because you think Jack Johnson or even RILEY STILLMAN is a more valuable D-man to their team because their defensive analytics (something you don't believe in, btw) are better than Rielly's. Even OEL has better defensive analytics, and he's on a similar contract. You're going to tell us that OEL is a more valuable player than Rielly? He is a valuable tank commander, sure... OEL is a far better player than Rielly and it's not even close. He's overpaid by about two million. Rielly would still be overpaid at league minimum; he's worse than useless and always will be unless he stops disgracing his team with his atrocious play in his own zone. Rielly would probably be a decent forward, but there's no excuse for allowing blueliners to play like he does defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 Looking like a great trade for the Caps thus far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Looking like a great trade for the Caps thus far. Exactly the type of retool move the Caps wanted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: Exactly the type of retool move the Caps wanted. Hopefully this is a similar outcome with Hronek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Hopefully this is a similar outcome with Hronek. Would be nice. Just like the Caps though a lot of work needs to be done before we get carried away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 Caps look like they made the best deal of the tdl. Sandin turned 23 yrs old just a few days ago. He's showing great so far. 8 points in 4 games and playing huge minutes. Makes 1.4 mill and RFA after next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 8 points and +6, playing 22+ minutes in what, 4 games with the Caps? Keep this up and Sandin might be a top 10 if not top 5 puck mover in the league next year. Gustafson has been a 3rd pairing guy for Toronto so far. Steal for Washington, I would have done a similar deal if we could have. Myers (2m retained) + NYI first for Sandin? Is that better than the Hronek deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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