Hits and Misses - Evaluating Rutherford and Allvin

[Elias Pettersson]

Lots has been said about the job that Rutherford and Allvin have done over the last 2 years.  Let's go over all of the hits and misses to see what has actually transpired so we can be objective on what they have accomplished so far...

 

Hits:

 

Andrei Kuzmenko - legit 30-40 goal scorer.  Cost - FREE

Dakota Joshua - solid 4th liner who can move up the lineup.  Cost - FREE

Nils Aman - solid 4C who could move up to 3C.  Cost - FREE

Filip Hronek / Anthony Beauvillier / Aatu Raty / 4th round pick - I lumped this all together as this was the total package received in the Horvat trade.  I think this was a home run trade, others disagree.  We will find out in 2-3 years the real verdict.  Cost - Bo Horvat and a 2nd round pick

3rd round pick - acquired from the Travis Hamonic trade.  Used to draft Elias Pettersson (Dman)

Christian Wolanin - has looked really good with the big club.  Has really helped Abby this year and should also help Abby in their playoff run.  Cost - Michael Amadio

Ethan Bear - hasn't shown a whole lot, but has filled in adequately when needed and the cost to acquire was low.  Not sure if he will be re-signed.  Cost - 5th round pick

Ilya Mikheyev - looked great next to Petey and Kuzy.  Injury derailed his season, but I think he showed us what he can do even playing on one leg.  Cost - FREE

 

Misses:

 

Riley Stillman - didn't do much other than be our tank commander, which you could spin as a positive.  Good news is we flipped him for Josh Bloom.  Cost - 2nd round pick and dumping Dickinson contract

Travis Dermott - could be a solid 3rd pairing guy but injuries have derailed his Canucks career.  May not be re-signed in the summer.  Cost - 3rd round pick

Collin Delia - hasn't really done much and should be replaced in the offseason.  Cost - FREE

 

 

To Be Determined

 

Vitali Kravtsov - TDB.  Could be a gem of a find for the top 6.  Cost - William Lockwood & a 7th round pick

Jack Studnicka - TBD.  Cost - Michael DiPietro and Jonathan Myrenberg

Josh Bloom - TBD.  Cost - Riley Stillman

Arshdeep Bains - TBD.  Cost - FREE

Filip Johansson - TBD.  Cost - FREE

Kirill Kudryavtsev - TBD.  Cost - drafted 208th overall

Jonathan Lekkerimaki - TBD.  Cost - drafted 15th overall

 

Overall, I would give the management group a B+.  Alot more hits than misses.  Lots of guys are still in the "to be determined" group, so the grade could change.  If you are in the camp that we lost the Horvat trade, then your grade will be lower I am sure...

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Alflives]

Yup. Completed the key core with the addition of Hronek. Still working on the supporting cast. Got to dumperoo OEL, Myers, Garland, and Boeser to create the cap space to make the supporting cast super good. 

[DrJockitch]

They have done a good job adding pieces and looking forward to seeing what they do with college and Euro FAs.

Have added too much in the same position without moving anyone significant out of that position. 
Cap management has been as bad as last guy. 
PR nightmare this year. 
Feels like Benning with better pro scouting but I guess that is ownership influence and a President that is historically impatient.
Another coaching bump, see if they can bring it forward into next season. Worked this year 

[-AJ-]

Pretty early to judge a lot of their decisions, but at the very least, signing Kuzmenko to this one-year deal was a hit. The next biggest positive IMO is Joshua and Aman, but both aren't huge pieces. Mikheyev is good, but does cost a fairly pricy contract. Worth it? Probably, but still not exactly a steal.

 

The jury is still out on the whole Horvat-Hronek deal and we won't really have a solid answer for about three years given Raty's age and even Hronek's relatively young age.

[Barnstorm]

I believe JR & PA have done well considering the difficulty of assessing the team due to a steady stream

of injuries rattling the line up. It appears the elephant has left the room and everyone is responding well. 
 

Big credit to them for bringing in the coaching staff this group needed . Coaching is everything and it looks like they got it right. Players are going to go to the wall for these bench bosses. 
 

Negative points for public relations/staff management and communication however that stuff will soon be forgotten and they have probably grown better from the mistakes. 
 

I’ll give them a solid B. 
 

[48MPHSlapShot]

I think you're being a little too kind tbh. The Horvat trade looks decent right now, but if Raty busts, Beau returns to his NYI form next year and Hronek Nate Schmidts on us, then it's a loss. 

 

On that note we haven't even seen Hronek play a game yet, so we certainly can't call it a win yet. Most people hated the trade when it first happened. 

 

Then there are the contracts. The Miller contract probably isn't going to age well and the Boeser contract is already a  disaster. 

 

And as far as Mikheyev goes, while I have no problem with the player, his contract is quite pricey, and that's cap space that could have been used in better ways than by spending it on yet another winger. 

 

Edit: We also need to look at their first draft, and while it's too early to determine anything for sure, Lek is already trending in the wrong direction. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by 48MPHSlapShot

[Crabcakes]

I think that we're starting to see the kind of team that they're building.  And building is what they're doing.  That's what JR said they were doing and the dim media in this city reads certain moves to mean that they're doing something completely different.  Certain media members seem to think that they know better than JR who has been running hockey teams for decades and has won 3 cups.  

 

They've added some really nice pieces (Kuzmenko, Hronek, Beauvillier, Mikheyev) some nice support pieces, and some good prospects to build around the core as they see it:  Pettersson, Hughes and Demko.

 

The look?  Speed and skill.

 

Major surgery is required because there are some contracts that are clearly bad and there are a few pieces who didn't fit with their model. 

The Horvat trade was major.  No doubt about it.  Is there more?  Likely. 

Boeser is slow but has a good IQ and while he does a lot of things well, his salary is not good value.  Does he get better as he gets over the death of his father?  That is the risk here. 

Myers, one year left on a poor value contract.  Can or should they move on?  Bringing in Hronek will certainly reduce his minutes.  Does this make him tolerable for 1 more season?  Surely they let him go after his contract expires at the latest.

Miller is beginning to look good under Tocchet's system but do they keep him or move him while they still have the chance?  His new contract is a really big chew and he's outside their age window.

Garland fits their general model but is a small, perimeter player but runs hot and cold in terms of production.  He could be a nice cap dump

Ekman-Larson has a pretty ugly contract compared to his value.  Can they move him somehow?  A buyout would be expensive.  Only if they can't move enough cap by other means.

There's not many on this list that fits their model of speed and skill.  We'll see who Allvin decides to carve off this team 

 

Now they have a coach who has implemented a system that has helped play tremendously.  

 

It really depends on how much they can do over the summer as to how long it will be before they compete for a playoff spot

[Kootenay Gold]

51 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Overall, I would give the management group a B+.  Alot more hits than misses.  Lots of guys are still in the "to be determined" group, so the grade could change.  If you are in the camp that we lost the Horvat trade, then your grade will be lower I am sure...

I think you have made a fair evaluation of the managements performance so far.

 

[Ballisticsports.]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Lots has been said about the job that Rutherford and Allvin have done over the last 2 years.  Let's go over all of the hits and misses to see what has actually transpired so we can be objective on what they have accomplished so far...

 

 

Has it been 2 yrs?

I had thought they did that in 1/2 that amount 

[Sophomore Jinx]

A solid "B" grade from me so far.

 

Not a fan of the Lekkermaki draft at 15OA...if PA was intending to go full Swede ahead, I would've rather had Ohgren, or even that 'lil shrimp Ostlund....guess we'll have to wait a while to get the final verdict on Lekk...

Edited March 14, 2023 by Sophomore Jinx

[babych]

I don't post a lot on these boards anymore.. but here goes.

 

 

I liked the Horvat trade. 

 

I don't understand the Hronek trade. This team needs to rebuild and trading away 1st round picks in a deep draft ain't how that happens.

 

Hate, hate, HATE the Boeser, Mikheyev, and especially the Miller signings. This management group is as bad as Benning ever was.

 

I give this management team a D-.

 

Put it this way, if you were in a coma for the last 2 years and just woke up, and someone told you only the moves made by the Nucks in the last 2 years, you'd have to assume that Benning was still at the helm.

 

Management/ownership has been absolute dogshit over the last decade. Our team is trash and, I got news for ya, they ain't getting any better any time soon.

 

I love my Nucks. I've been a fan since the 80's. But this ownership needs to go. Until it does, I'm about done supporting the team. As a fan, I vote with my dollar.. that's about all we can do.

 

/end rant

[Kootenay Gold]

47 minutes ago, babych said:

I don't post a lot on these boards anymore.. but here goes.

 

 

I liked the Horvat trade. 

 

I don't understand the Hronek trade. This team needs to rebuild and trading away 1st round picks in a deep draft ain't how that happens.

 

Hate, hate, HATE the Boeser, Mikheyev, and especially the Miller signings. This management group is as bad as Benning ever was.

 

I give this management team a D-.

 

Put it this way, if you were in a coma for the last 2 years and just woke up, and someone told you only the moves made by the Nucks in the last 2 years, you'd have to assume that Benning was still at the helm.

 

Management/ownership has been absolute dogshit over the last decade. Our team is trash and, I got news for ya, they ain't getting any better any time soon.

 

I love my Nucks. I've been a fan since the 80's. But this ownership needs to go. Until it does, I'm about done supporting the team. As a fan, I vote with my dollar.. that's about all we can do.

 

/end rant

Ownership isn't going anywhere.

Perhaps you should pick a different team to cheer for.

 

Horvat trade still to be determined as to who came out on top.

Hronek trade was part of the rebuild. Good RD D-men don't grow on trees; there is a price to be paid in order to acquire them. Benning left the current management group a real mess to sort out and that will take time. OEL's anchor of a contract is a major obstacle to improving this team. I initially had my doubts about RT as a coach; Gonchar and Foote are good adds as are the Sedin's and Colliton in Abby. Future looks much better than it did while Benning and Green were at the helm IMO.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Kootenay Gold
grammar

[Nuxfanabroad]

Solid evaluations, & nice to have a 1-stop-shop where all this jazz is lumped together..thnx

[Junkyard Dog]

Horvat trade looks good on paper the return needs to play out over a larger sample size before we are able to give more concrete judgements. 
 

Even a lot of guys acquired elsewhere need a longer look. A lot them it’s their 1st year with us.

 

Also cap needs to be situated.
 

Just too early to tell. I’d put more things in TBD. Can’t give it more than a C+ atm. Next year we will have more to go off of. We’ll see how players improve or regress. Besides Kuzy not many things I’d put money on. 

[eeeeergh]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Lots has been said about the job that Rutherford and Allvin have done over the last 2 years.  Let's go over all of the hits and misses to see what has actually transpired so we can be objective on what they have accomplished so far...

 

Hits:

 

Andrei Kuzmenko - legit 30-40 goal scorer.  Cost - FREE

Dakota Joshua - solid 4th liner who can move up the lineup.  Cost - FREE

Nils Aman - solid 4C who could move up to 3C.  Cost - FREE

Filip Hronek / Anthony Beauvillier / Aatu Raty / 4th round pick - I lumped this all together as this was the total package received in the Horvat trade.  I think this was a home run trade, others disagree.  We will find out in 2-3 years the real verdict.  Cost - Bo Horvat and a 2nd round pick

3rd round pick - acquired from the Travis Hamonic trade.  Used to draft Elias Pettersson (Dman)

Christian Wolanin - has looked really good with the big club.  Has really helped Abby this year and should also help Abby in their playoff run.  Cost - Michael Amadio

Ethan Bear - hasn't shown a whole lot, but has filled in adequately when needed and the cost to acquire was low.  Not sure if he will be re-signed.  Cost - 5th round pick

Ilya Mikheyev - looked great next to Petey and Kuzy.  Injury derailed his season, but I think he showed us what he can do even playing on one leg.  Cost - FREE

 

Misses:

 

Riley Stillman - didn't do much other than be our tank commander, which you could spin as a positive.  Good news is we flipped him for Josh Bloom.  Cost - 2nd round pick and dumping Dickinson contract

Travis Dermott - could be a solid 3rd pairing guy but injuries have derailed his Canucks career.  May not be re-signed in the summer.  Cost - 3rd round pick

Collin Delia - hasn't really done much and should be replaced in the offseason.  Cost - FREE

 

 

To Be Determined

 

Vitali Kravtsov - TDB.  Could be a gem of a find for the top 6.  Cost - William Lockwood & a 7th round pick

Jack Studnicka - TBD.  Cost - Michael DiPietro and Jonathan Myrenberg

Josh Bloom - TBD.  Cost - Riley Stillman

Arshdeep Bains - TBD.  Cost - FREE

Filip Johansson - TBD.  Cost - FREE

Kirill Kudryavtsev - TBD.  Cost - drafted 208th overall

Jonathan Lekkerimaki - TBD.  Cost - drafted 15th overall

 

Overall, I would give the management group a B+.  Alot more hits than misses.  Lots of guys are still in the "to be determined" group, so the grade could change.  If you are in the camp that we lost the Horvat trade, then your grade will be lower I am sure...

 

Agreed with the grade. Would be an A if they had managed to move out two of Brock, Myers, Garland. 

 

The Horvat trade is conclusively a big W. Horvats production in NY seals the deal in my opinion.For those who say NY won the deal because they're winning, may I refer you to Ilya Sorokin

[Kootenay Gold]

1 hour ago, Muttley said:

Under new management, we have seen positive moves that obviously have been well thought out. Not the obsessive "Gotta get my guy" ones form the previous regime.

Ones that will be costing us for years yet.

Benning has some competition for signing really bad contracts by GM Treliving in Calgary.

 

Huberdeau @ 10.5 mil/ yr till 29-30 and Kadri @ 7 mil/ yr till 28-29. Performance this year is worth about 4.5 mil each IMO. They just might outdo the OEL contract as albatrosses around the Flames future.

[Devron]

Grade F because they should have made a Stanley cup winner in 1.5 years smh

[JamesB]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Lots has been said about the job that Rutherford and Allvin have done over the last 2 years.  Let's go over all of the hits and misses to see what has actually transpired so we can be objective on what they have accomplished so far....

 

Good assessment. I agree with pretty much everything. But I don't think I would call the Delia move a "miss". He was expected to share the AHL duties, not take over as the #1 guy on the big team. He cost pretty much nothing. Critics might say that the Canucks should have had a better contingency plan in place in case of injury to Demko, but I don't think that is fair. Given the team's lack of cap space it was hard to do much to cover the contingency that Demko would struggle and get injured, and that Martin would also struggle. 

 

To me, the biggest question mark is re-signing Miller. I did not like that move when it happened and I hated it in the early part of this season. But now it looks like it might be ok. The price tag was on low side of the "market" rate, but I was not sure the timing made sense. But I think that JR and Alvin have built a team that might be surprisingly good over the next couple of years, and that would make the Miller re-signing look much better. 

 

If the Canucks were a stock, I would buy now.  

[Dazzle]

We threw a lot of 1st and 2nd round picks as a team that really hasn't achieved crap under their watch.

 

No matter how many hits they've had, which is not insignificant, there is no way in hell that this management gets a B+.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Dazzle

[Hogs & Podz]

30 minutes ago, JamesB said:

Good assessment. I agree with pretty much everything. But I don't think I would call the Delia move a "miss". He was expected to share the AHL duties, not take over as the #1 guy on the big team. He cost pretty much nothing. Critics might say that the Canucks should have had a better contingency plan in place in case of injury to Demko, but I don't think that is fair. Given the team's lack of cap space it was hard to do much to cover the contingency that Demko would struggle and get injured, and that Martin would also struggle. 

 

To me, the biggest question mark is re-signing Miller. I did not like that move when it happened and I hated it in the early part of this season. But now it looks like it might be ok. The price tag was on low side of the "market" rate, but I was not sure the timing made sense. But I think that JR and Alvin have built a team that might be surprisingly good over the next couple of years, and that would make the Miller re-signing look much better. 

 

If the Canucks were a stock, I would buy now.  

James... It's posters like you that make it worth my while combing through these threads on CDC. 

100% agree with your post.  

 

If Demko's healthy and playing at his peak, with structure and systems that are bought into, even with very little change with the lineup, this team will compete for a playoff wild card next season.  

Though a tanker mentality, I'm concerned if the team will even lose a few more games?  (should be happy right?!)

Regardless, I like what I see... Beyond Petey, Hughes taking huge steps thus year in their evolution... the bottom 6 is shaping up to be the best one since 2010-11 team as well.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Hogs & Podz