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[WCF] Vegas Golden Knights (P1) vs. Dallas Stars (C2) | Golden Knights win series 4-2

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2023 Stanley Cup Playoffs | Conference Finals  

108 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win the series?

    • Golden Knights in 4
      0
    • Golden Knights in 5
      8
    • Golden Knights in 6
      35
    • Golden Knights in 7
      18
    • Stars in 4
      2
    • Stars in 5
      4
    • Stars in 6
      23
    • Stars in 7
      17

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  • Poll closed on 05/21/2023 at 07:00 PM

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4 hours ago, Mando27 said:

Dallas has weak goaltending, Vegas in 5.

Really?  they have one of the best goalies left.  yes he didnt always play like it, part of that might be fatigue as we've seen a number of goalies crap the bed this year.  Aside from DeBoer, Dallas has less hateable players.  

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10 hours ago, DeNiro said:

At least Dallas and Carolina have a long history that stretches back to the North Stars and Whalers. 
 

Better than joke markets like Florida or Vegas getting it.

Don't mind if Florida wins.  They've been around long enough.   And well Florida and Vancouver at least share a history of some boffo trades together.    Wouldn't mind seeing Luongo's name on the cup. 

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5 hours ago, amplified0ne said:

Really?  they have one of the best goalies left.  yes he didnt always play like it, part of that might be fatigue as we've seen a number of goalies crap the bed this year.  Aside from DeBoer, Dallas has less hateable players.  

Absolutely, Otts has the ability to steal the series if he plays like he can. Dallas has grown on me and I can't help but cheer some for a team that drafts that well. Real envious of their drafting and development. 

 

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5 hours ago, amplified0ne said:

Really?  they have one of the best goalies left.  yes he didnt always play like it, part of that might be fatigue as we've seen a number of goalies crap the bed this year.  Aside from DeBoer, Dallas has less hateable players.  

He has only lost two games in a row once all year (regular season ... record is actually now pretty unreal 25 wins combined, like when Luongo was at his peak and Roy/Hasek/Belfour).   Bobrovsky has a history of up and down.   So far he's been all up.   Those two are the best remaining goalies and it's really not even close. 

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9 hours ago, EdgarM said:

VGK has "gamers" including the goalie. They also have the depth and every line can play. Defense wins championships and they know how to shut down team offense, shutting down McDavid/Draisaitl was a sight to see. Another plus is they don't take a lot of penalties. Their team game is all there and they don't just rely on one or two players.

Vegas in 6. 

Yes.  But I think you need to be watching the Stars a little more closely.   When they are on, they are very tough to beat, and don't allow many danger shots.   Or shots in general.   And IF you can get through, they've got one of the best goalies remaining.   Vegas is actually pretty similar, but i'd argue Dallas also has better star power.   Depth - hard to debate, both teams are super deep. 

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13 hours ago, IBatch said:

Don't mind if Florida wins.  They've been around long enough.   And well Florida and Vancouver at least share a history of some boffo trades together.    Wouldn't mind seeing Luongo's name on the cup. 

 

Yeah that Florida final in the 90s where they were throwing the rats was a little too early in their existence and I didn't like it at the time...but they have suffered adequately since like the rest of us.

 

I didn't like it and they even had a good handful of players I liked, old veteran warhorses from the 80s like Scott Mellanby, Brian Skrudland and Terry Carkner.  That was a team with next to no scoring.  Vanbiesbrouck kind of did the King Richard number and got them through three rounds.  Might have won the Conn Smythe if they hadn't been swept.  He absolutely refused to give in for that triple overtime fourth game...stopped all of the first 55 shots in over 100 minutes but they just couldn't score one goal for him.  Great goalie...too bad he couldn't keep from saying dumb crap and torpedoing his own good name for the rest of time.

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Genuine question, and don’t take this as me defending Vegas because I don’t want them to win at all but I am genuinely curious. At what point would it take for them to win the cup and have it not be seen as “the expansion team winning.” They’ve been in the league for 6 years now. The Oilers won their first cup after 5 seasons.  Philly won their first cup after 7 seasons. The Islanders won in 8. The Flames in 9. Colorado won their first year, but that was after toiling in Quebec for decades.


The flip side are teams like Washington and St. Louis recently, who each waited well over 40 years, so nobody talks about them being a “new” team winning their first cup.

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5 hours ago, McBackup said:

Genuine question, and don’t take this as me defending Vegas because I don’t want them to win at all but I am genuinely curious. At what point would it take for them to win the cup and have it not be seen as “the expansion team winning.” They’ve been in the league for 6 years now. The Oilers won their first cup after 5 seasons.  Philly won their first cup after 7 seasons. The Islanders won in 8. The Flames in 9. Colorado won their first year, but that was after toiling in Quebec for decades.


The flip side are teams like Washington and St. Louis recently, who each waited well over 40 years, so nobody talks about them being a “new” team winning their first cup.

If Vegas stunk it up and this was their first run, maybe they'd have more folks willing to turn their cheek and say "well good for them".   Instead they showed right away they were built for the playoffs, third conference final already lol, and well screw them.   PHI gets a pass because they were part of the original expansion.   And learned their lessons the hard way playing the Picard brothers.   Not nearly as tough to succeed when you've got 10-12 teams you're chasing.    EDM was also a WHA team ... not quite the same deal.   As Biestra and i've pointed out, the talent level wasn't that  far off for those guys, many actually excelled after the merger.     

 

What CLB had to go through was pretty bogus on the flip side, but feel they swung the expansion rules too far the other way.   Somewhere in the middle would have been a lot better.   Pretty hard for ANY team to compete with 31 other teams.    And teams like us, Buffalo and even the early 90's teams like Ottawa, SJ and a little later Florida ... it's expected that some hard work should be done before a team comes in, aside from Vegas and Seattle, the rest did in varying degrees.   I'd say 8-9 years would be ok i guess.  

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5 hours ago, McBackup said:

Genuine question, and don’t take this as me defending Vegas because I don’t want them to win at all but I am genuinely curious. At what point would it take for them to win the cup and have it not be seen as “the expansion team winning.” They’ve been in the league for 6 years now. The Oilers won their first cup after 5 seasons.  Philly won their first cup after 7 seasons. The Islanders won in 8. The Flames in 9. Colorado won their first year, but that was after toiling in Quebec for decades.


The flip side are teams like Washington and St. Louis recently, who each waited well over 40 years, so nobody talks about them being a “new” team winning their first cup.

 

For me I would say at least a decade from right now.  They hit the ground running so ridiculously that I don't know if they can ever shake that (finals in their first year).

 

The WHA teams don't even really count entirely as expansion to me.  The Oilers had been building their team in the WHA.  Jacques Plante played for them.

 

And the first six expansion teams aren't really expansion teams like they are now, nor were the 1970 round.  That first expansion finally meant the Cup didn't get passed around among six teams like the CFL but smaller.

 

As for Colorado...they paid their dues as the Nordiques and the Nordiques were in the running for the best team in the WHA.

 

And the Flames go back to 1972.  The 1989 cup was their 17th season or something.

 

For me the teams that really feel like expansion teams start with San Jose.  And Vegas and Seattle are a whole new animal in that regard.  Although nothing felt more phony than the bloody Mighty Ducks with their Disney cartoon jersey.  It took them way over a decade to start actually feeling like a real hockey team and not just a marketing ploy.

 

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47 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

For me I would say at least a decade from right now.  They hit the ground running so ridiculously that I don't know if they can ever shake that (finals in their first year).

 

The WHA teams don't even really count entirely as expansion to me.  The Oilers had been building their team in the WHA.  Jacques Plante played for them.

 

And the first six expansion teams aren't really expansion teams like they are now, nor were the 1970 round.  That first expansion finally meant the Cup didn't get passed around among six teams like the CFL but smaller.

 

As for Colorado...they paid their dues as the Nordiques and the Nordiques were in the running for the best team in the WHA.

 

And the Flames go back to 1972.  The 1989 cup was their 17th season or something.

 

For me the teams that really feel like expansion teams start with San Jose.  And Vegas and Seattle are a whole new animal in that regard.  Although nothing felt more phony than the bloody Mighty Ducks with their Disney cartoon jersey.  It took them way over a decade to start actually feeling like a real hockey team and not just a marketing ploy.

 

Well said.   I'd also consider the first two rounds of expansion that brought the NHL to 14 teams (including us), as a totally different thing.   2.75 better odds or something like that of one of those teams to get there compared to the 31st and 32nd teams.    Of the original expansion, only PHI did it, the first few finals were done differently, the original six played the final against the winner of the expansion teams ... so St. Louis doesn't really count.    Then in 72 the Islanders came to the scene.   They for sure lucked out with acquiring Potvin, but also drafted their core, and then supported it properly.     14 teams ... still way better odds than today.  

 

When the WHA came in, the league was a little diluted.   But the next phase isn't called the golden era for nothing.   Right until SJ, ANA,  TB and Florida joined the league.   That expansion thinned the talent pool too much.   And was as fans paid a heavy price.    And those teams for sure put their time in.   And they've been struggling to even keep to those standards ever since.  

 

As an aside PIT was part of the original expansion and had to wait almost a quarter century to raise a cup.   And had bad teams mostly until Mario started the upswing.   NJ was absolutely awful in the 80's, as the Rockies too.    Gretzky actually called them a "joke" and that they had no business having an NHL team, that's how bad they were.   It did however, parlay into one of the best teams for two decades.  

 

OTT was terrible too.  Of the early 90's teams, SJ actually did some surprising stuff with Irbe and Makarov.   But aside from that David vs Goliath thing (Detroit), also had to pay their dues.   ANA won a cup but they were around for awhile.   Finally LA won some cups.   PIT won a couple more.   And PHI peaked early or so it seems lol.   And of course St. Louis finally got it done.   And the Whalers took forever as well.    Just Buffalo and Vancouver left.    Both those fanbases ... well i'd be shocked if anyone over 40 would be that happy with Seattle and Vegas. 

 

Edit:  In 2000 the league expanded to 30 with NSH and CLB.   By that time it was more than evident by the extra goons coming in and with the 80's guys gone or long in the tooth, that the league watered itself down beyond quick repair.    Dead puck era was in full force, as a result of earlier 90's expansion.   An extra goon on every team, and slow but tough defenseman that were good at doing what the coach asked for plugging lanes and holding on.   The power forward away coveted still but also becoming harder to find.    Can't blame them, why would they want to drop the gloves with the "monsters " coming in.    Since the mid-90's i've been vocal about retraction.   Just relocate bad or underperforming fanbases/attendances.   It took the league almost another two decades to catch up to talent levels of a 24ish team level.   Always felt the league did this knowing their on ice product was nose diving.    Proof is in the pudding that they waited into 2016 to announce Vegas, you can bet they knew this all along too.   Post lockout was hilarious ... Guys from the 90's long in the tooth mostly led the league in scoring, almost completely really.

 

And back then I was hoping that meant ARI or CAR was relocating.   Raleigh has struggled to keep butts in seats too.    Also check out this cover ... WHA "Dominates" NHL in pre-season.    Gretzky and there no limits on drafting age, was the last straw for NHL owners.   Actually most agreed to buy them out early, two holdouts (Bruins and TO) was the only reason it took this long.  

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11 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah that Florida final in the 90s where they were throwing the rats was a little too early in their existence and I didn't like it at the time...but they have suffered adequately since like the rest of us.

 

I didn't like it and they even had a good handful of players I liked, old veteran warhorses from the 80s like Scott Mellanby, Brian Skrudland and Terry Carkner.  That was a team with next to no scoring.  Vanbiesbrouck kind of did the King Richard number and got them through three rounds.  Might have won the Conn Smythe if they hadn't been swept.  He absolutely refused to give in for that triple overtime fourth game...stopped all of the first 55 shots in over 100 minutes but they just couldn't score one goal for him.  Great goalie...too bad he couldn't keep from saying dumb crap and torpedoing his own good name for the rest of time.

Was that the series where Jovocop had those epic battles with Lindros (in his prime, pre-concussion days) & Captain Video was the coach?

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2 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Was that the series where Jovocop had those epic battles with Lindros (in his prime, pre-concussion days) & Captain Video was the coach?

 

Florida vs. the Flyers was round two and Jovo and Lindros both pretty much led their teams in PIM.  Florida's coach was Doug MacLean...in his rookie year as an NHL coach.  It was all downhill after that.

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