[Report] Maple Leafs part ways with GM Kyle Dubas

[themcdeal]

He put together a solid team which has had regular season success but it hasn't translated well into the playoffs

Your highest paid guys cant dissapear for an entire series. 

[BCNate]

53 minutes ago, Bounce000 said:

I agree. The way he did gymnastics around the salary cap and always brought in the right complimentary players to support the core will have teams wanting to pick him up. Too bad the core players get jelly knees when the playoff roll around.

The only reason he needed to do gymnastics around the cap was because he decided build the most top heavy (salary) team of the cap era.  He 100% created the challenges that people giving him credit for working through.

[IBatch]

Well well well.  Turns out his early mistakes just couldn't be corrected.   TO is probably one of the easiest franchises to run.   More than 50% of the good old Canadian boys want to have a go at some point, and despite Spezza, Thornton and a bunch of other guys playing their for peanuts so Tavares, Mathews et all could get their massive pay cheques it just didn't work out for them.    Dubas was a huge part of the reason for some salary escalation back then, and for sure won't shed a tear on his way out.     Get that it's a fishbowl market over there, and that part can't be easy, and like JB covid and cap not going up screwed him (same as 53% taxes - instead of 36.4%!! - just like us, OTT and MTL).   ... And he did try for sure.   Just like Chakya, it's not all about analytics though either, and unlike Chakya he had the pick of the litter 6 playoffs.    Wonder who they get in next.   
 

Im also glad because this should make the players nervous too.    Same with Keefe because i'm sure Dubas brought in the players he asked for as well.    Mathews said he wants another deal ... wonder if that has anything to do with it.  Maybe Dubas wasn't so keen on that, after doing his arithmetic. 

[Ghostsof1915]

4 minutes ago, themcdeal said:

He put together a solid team which has had regular season success but it hasn't translated well into the playoffs

Your highest paid guys cant dissapear for an entire series. 

For multiple seasons with only getting to the second round once.

The earlier 1st round exits you can blame on inexperience. But not the past few years.

[Highstickin]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Well well well.  Turns out his early mistakes just couldn't be corrected.   TO is probably one of the easiest franchises to run.   More than 50% of the good old Canadian boys want to have a go at some point, and despite Spezza, Thornton and a bunch of other guys playing their for peanuts so Tavares, Mathews et all could get their massive pay cheques it just didn't work out for them.    Dubas was a huge part of the reason for some salary escalation back then, and for sure won't shed a tear on his way out.     Get that it's a fishbowl market over there, and that part can't be easy, and like JB covid and cap not going up screwed him (same as 53% taxes - instead of 36.4%!! - just like us, OTT and MTL).   ... And he did try for sure.   Just like Chakya, it's not all about analytics though either, and unlike Chakya he had the pick of the litter 6 playoffs.    Wonder who they get in next.   
 

Im also glad because this should make the players nervous too.    Same with Keefe because i'm sure Dubas brought in the players he asked for as well.    Mathews said he wants another deal ... wonder if that has anything to do with it.  Maybe Dubas wasn't so keen on that, after doing his arithmetic. 

Agree with some of your points here but I disagree that TO is one of the easiest franchises to run. I think there are a number of players in the league that actively stay out of TO because of the attention. There are a lots of managers south of the board that get far less scrutiny for having stretches of poor performance. I think it would be a lot easier to run teams in cities no one cares about. 

[VegasCanuck]

30 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Sorry I gotta say Benning sucked.  His defense here is that he didn't have a boss vetoing his stupid decisions?  I honestly think a substantially above average knowledgeable hockey fan could have done an equal job to Benning.  Wouldn't have gone off book with Juolevi and could have just stuck to central scouting draft rankings.  Virtanen was a bad pick but that first round was full of all kinds of junk.  Random guy doing the drafting would have probably equaled that pick.  McCann was a good pick...doesn't matter, Benning traded him immediately.  All anyone had to do was not sign Loui and not trade for OEL and they're ahead of Benning right there.  Whatever good Benning did in both those areas doesn't balance those out and he was still in the red in both trades and signings not counting those two moves.

 

He shouldn't have needed a president to help him figure out how to use this thing.

 

All teams have a president to establish team direction. Our head office was short staffed, he was doing too many jobs.

 

Joelevi was not off book, he was picked exactly where he was expected to go and even Burke said that they had Juolevi ranked dead even with Tkachuk. NO ONE, Not you, Not Benning can predict what happens to a player after you draft them in terms of injuries. If Tkachuk had 2 straight lost seasons with major season ending surgeries, reconstructing a knee, it could just as easily been Calgary who was out of luck on the pick.

 

LE was a highly sought after free agent. Guys who score 40 goals in their UFA year get 6 million deals. PERIOD. If you don't believe that, wait till July 1st and watch the money that gets thrown around.

 

[timberz21]

1 hour ago, BabychStache said:

This is dumb. Dubas is not the problem. He pulled multiple rabbits out of hats. 
 

Players are to blame. 

Players he paid the big bucks to though.

[IBatch]

27 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Benning did get screwed by COVID, and he did get screwed by the Seattle expansion draft because it happened when he had the best #2 goalie in the NHL and the Canucks were disproportionately hurt there (though he would have probably signed Markstrom until he was 45 without the draft).  Those are his two valid defenses.  But everyone did have to deal with COVID and the expansion drafts as well.

The only defense Benning might have is this constant dialogue around ownership.  It was awfully strange that he was spending to the cap even though the average fan could see that we needed to bottom out after the Sedins. 

 

As for Mike Gillis.   Sure JB was left with a lot of underperforming vets all claused up.  And personally and said it many times over JB tenure, always felt our best chance at contending again would be two cores after the Sedins as a result of all the winning for 14 years ... and no prospect pool.     JB had three home runs. EP/QHs and Miller and that's it.  Demko is still in a holding pattern, maybe him too.   The organization hasn't had an impact player past the second round since Edler.   Wow!   Like wow. 

 

JB only needed to accept we weren't there yet and let us properly bottom out.   We never really did.   And well Covid was terrible timing for him, but it was for everyone.   If he was a good manager, he'd of had some cap in the pocket for later.   He reminds me of people that can't curb their spending, and use a credit card to pay off another credit card.   

[VegasCanuck]

35 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Benning did get screwed by COVID, and he did get screwed by the Seattle expansion draft because it happened when he had the best #2 goalie in the NHL and the Canucks were disproportionately hurt there (though he would have probably signed Markstrom until he was 45 without the draft).  Those are his two valid defenses.  But everyone did have to deal with COVID and the expansion drafts as well.

People can beat him up all they want for Virtanen, although, truthfully, who on this board didn't have him down as their pick.

 

Juolevi, who people continually beat him up about, had 2 major knee surgeries which affected and derailed his development, but people still hold that over him as any GM in Vancouver is expected to be clairvoyant to keep fans happy... lol

[Mando27]

1 hour ago, rekker said:

He was horrble. Terrible trades, overpaid Marner, gave AM top dollar but only five year term, low in prospects, no draft picks left, team can't win in the playoffs. How did he do a good job? 

He gave the core 4 everything they needed to get it done. Problem is with that core 4, they can't perform in the playoffs.

[Rubik]

Brad Treliving hire incoming?

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

It is actually. He decided it was ok to be a top heavy team. And it's cost them.

let's be fair the flat cap didn't help either. Not saying that is the main issue but once Tavares was signed many Leafs fans thought the contract was ok because they expected the cap to go up. Can't help but feel the Leafs organization also had the same expectation.

[24K PureCool]

19 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

People can beat him up all they want for Virtanen, although, truthfully, who on this board didn't have him down as their pick.

 

Juolevi, who people continually beat him up about, had 2 major knee surgeries which affected and derailed his development, but people still hold that over him as any GM in Vancouver is expected to be clairvoyant to keep fans happy... lol

Jim is a terrible gm for the sole reason he made the oel trade. That trade alone ensures he will never work in the nhl again.

 

Nothing else matters in this discussion. Also stop hijacking the thread.

Edited May 19, 2023 by 24K PureCool

[Rubik]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

What about that coach? He couldn't get his team going. Maybe he's gone next.

 

 

 

Probably, new GM will want his own guy anyway.

[R3aL]

16 minutes ago, Rubik said:

Brad Treliving hire incoming?

trades Matthews for weegar and huberdau

[King Heffy]

11 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

Jim is a terrible gm for the sole reason he made the oel trade. That trade alone ensures he will never work in the nhl again.

 

Nothing else matters in this discussion. Also stop hijacking the thread.

McPhee found work again after the Erat trade.  Benning fell victim to the Peter Principle, but he'd be able to find a job as an assistant without issue.  Dubas has shown no sign of being qualified to work in hockey ops in any capacity whatsoever.

Edited May 19, 2023 by King Heffy

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, rekker said:

He was horrble. Terrible trades, overpaid Marner, gave AM top dollar but only five year term, low in prospects, no draft picks left, team can't win in the playoffs. How did he do a good job? 

I'm sure there would be a ton of Canucks fans happy if we just traded everyone and instead of a decade of whatever it is we are doing, would be ok with six playoffs in a row and some of the best regular seasons we've ever had instead. 

 

Not saying you're wrong either Rekker.   But Lou's plan actually worked, Dubas just wasn't the guy to carry through.    The most hysterical part about TO is what happened in their own division/conference.   They ended up with some very stiff competition each time they went to the playoffs.  No "easy outs!" for them at all.    Each loss was a little different.   And well, they did exercise their first round demons this year.  Too little too late.   But see some similarities with the best players not doing enough,  we had the same problem with the Sedins. 

 

If we want to be totally honest, brutally honest, about the peak Sedin era, we had it a lot easier compared to who TO had to play the first round aside from CHI 2011.    And well we really didn't have a lot of success either aside from one run to the final with the Sedins

 

 CHI could have killed us before it started but it didn't happen that way (thank you Burrows!). For me the funniest of TO's losses was Boston and Jagr right at the start of it.   Up a bunch of goals going into the third period game 7.  Jagr urging on the Boston bench.   And then they won the game lol.   It was glorious.   Let's not pretend that our best regular season team also didn't have its challenges, because for sure it did, and we really didn't have the same things to deal with either.   CHI... ok them, maybe SJ.  We had one of the weaker divisions. 

 

TO has some Canuck luck with this group for sure.   And well the Sedins did have one great playoffs for us - those guys just haven't figured it out yet.   Maybe next year right? 

[joe-max]

Sutter for GM, Tortorella for coach. 

[EternalCanuckFan]

I think the Tavares deal, one of the first things Dubas did, set the team off on the wrong foot. Signing Tavares wasn't the problem - I actually like Tavares and have thought highly of his game since he was drafted by NYI. But signing him for $11M AAV for 7 years was a bad idea.

 

Having so much cap committed to just a handful of players, no matter how good they are, is not a formula that is working. Sure, Edmonton made it to the WCF last year, but even with an arguably improved team this year, they couldn't make it past the 2nd round.

 

Dubas had a good run to test out his vision but it didn't yield much success, at least in the post-season. I'm sure he'll get another shot but I do wonder what lessons he'll take from his time with TOR if he does manage elsewhere.

[King Heffy]

Just now, joe-max said:

Sutter for GM, Tortorella for coach. 

Torts would be perfect there as long as management backs him up when he starts benching their overpaid guys and holds them accountable for their laziness.