Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Windows of Opportunity (Again).

Rate this topic


JamesB

Recommended Posts

EP and Hronek have one more year of reasonable contract, 2 years of cost control. EP will be gettin an 8yr contract kicking in next season at what I would think is well north of $10M and Hronek will likely be making significantly more as well after next year.
The big cap penalty for OEL kicks in in 2 years. 

We have some good players but what is around them has been terrible but it just got a big shake and a lot more to come this off-season. :bigblush:
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JamesB said:

In talking about Cup contenders the term "window of opportunity" comes up a lot.  The question is how to put together enough valuable pieces at the same time to maximize the chances of making a serious Cup run.

 

No one has talked about windows of opportunity in connection with the Canucks for a long time. And Canuck management has not used that term in the media.

 

But I think that, internally, PA and JR are thinking in terms of a 2-year window of opportunity starting this year (2023-24). And that explains the OEL buyout (among other things).

 

As PA and JR have mentioned at different times:

 

1. Petey is team-controlled at a reasonable cap hit for 2 seasons.

2. Same with Hronek.

3. Same with Kuzmenko.

4. Miller is still in his (late) prime for maybe 2 more seasons after which his contract will likely be a drag on the team.

5. Hughes and Demko are both signed through that period (and more).

 

That gives the Canucks the hardest pieces to get in building a Cup contender:

 

a. Three elite or near-elite forwards,

b. A potential Norris-trophy candidate D.

c. Another top pairing quality D.

d. A (we hope) elite goalie.

 

e. The Canucks also believe that they have a high quality coaching staff and other supports in place

to help those guys and everyone else play up to their ability.

 

What they need is a better supporting cast. They need two good second-pairing quality defenders and a good 3C. Maybe even a 4C as an upgrade over Aman and Dries.

All three of those guys need to be able to kill penalties and, ideally, at least a couple of those guys should add to team toughness.

 

Getting those pieces is not easy but it is a lot easier than getting elite or near-elite players.

 

In the current Cap environment getting some good supporting pieces is easier than it usually is, That is where the OEL buyout comes in.

 

JR and PA are looking at making a good run over the next two years. I think things get tougher after that.

Hopefully this super soft team with minimal playoff experience can bring home the cup in the next two years before we are backed into a corner and forced to make painful cap moves in 2025. Petey probably wont be very good when he is 26-27 years old anyways. 

Edited by Bure_Pavel
  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The team had Luongo's recapture penalty hampering their cap usage and just when the team was free from it they have OEL's buyout penalty for 8 more years. You can't compete in a league built for parity when you have cap penalties on top of high local income tax which causes players to demand over payment to ever sign here. The soonest window for the Canucks is 2031, assuming management doesn't add more albatrosses along the way. Zero point hoping for any success with this team in this decade.

  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Alflives said:

Actually yes we can compete and we will. 105 points and a playoff run next season. 

Next season is the only chance, but based on the recent record, it does not look like this team has the pieces, not to mention the team has traded away draft picks. Once again management has gone all in when the window really isn't open, and they've sacrificed the next 7 years to do it. And they just went all in 2 seasons ago sacrificing the future (which is now the present)! Gross mismanagement has basically ensured mediocrity for all of the 2020s. You can't constantly mortgage the future for the present, because they you are always struggling in the present because you mortgaged it in the past!

  • Cheers 3
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

I don’t think any of us have a clue what this team will look like next year. 

Pretty sure Petey, Hughes, Demko, Kuzmenko and Hronek will be on it. A Miller trade is not impossible but very unlikely. I agree the rest of the D is a big question mark. And I also agree that the Canucks could move out some of the forwards.

  • Like 1
  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Bathgate said:

I believe this is one year early. If you pick up a 2ld &3c, e040 & hronkic raises

paid by myers off the books next year ,we are back in cap hell the following year. Impatience, the hallmark of the canucks.

Myers, Boeser, Garland will all be traded by then 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I wouldn't have made the Hronek deal, would have just used this draft as a chance to really stock-pile the prospects and build from within. The Bo deal was a great launching pad. I don't mean to fully rebuild, just slowly grow from within. Much more patient than what Allvin is doing. If Petey and Hughes don't like it they can leave and we can get some massive assets for them leaving. Don't care if management or the fans don't like it.

 

CDC would have loved a full on rebuild the way Chicago have done and just sell all of our top players a few years ago (eg. Miller in his prime), but that's a bit less realistic and a more obvious tank. This would just be a slow tank. Don't sacrifice anything that hurts the team's future. 

 

When you look at Detroit, they're a good team to compare to us. Not to say either is doing better, they're not exactly tanking but they're not making rash moves to try and build around their young core (who are admittedly a bit younger than ours). They're still building - selling a bit, stockpiling picks and prospects, biding their time before making a move.

 

We're making our move now, for better or for worse, but it certainly is a bit odd for such a bad team to "go for it". You don't see many bottom feeders as buyers. CBJ are doing it too which is a bit strange for sure, but they've completely revamped their team. I don't think this is the long-term key to success but it might buy is a short little window or two to get into the playoffs here and there, and then who knows.

 

I'll watch Yzerman's team closely, he knows what he's doing - patiently growing that team value from within, flipping players he may not re-sign at the height of their power for more picks/prospects and keep recycling until the overall team value is higher and higher, then when the kids are in their prime I expect him to gun for it. We didn't do enough of that internal farming IMO.

  • Cheers 1
  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, JamesB said:

In talking about Cup contenders the term "window of opportunity" comes up a lot.  The question is how to put together enough valuable pieces at the same time to maximize the chances of making a serious Cup run.

 

No one has talked about windows of opportunity in connection with the Canucks for a long time. And Canuck management has not used that term in the media.

 

But I think that, internally, PA and JR are thinking in terms of a 2-year window of opportunity starting this year (2023-24). And that explains the OEL buyout (among other things).

 

As PA and JR have mentioned at different times:

 

1. Petey is team-controlled at a reasonable cap hit for 2 seasons.

2. Same with Hronek.

3. Same with Kuzmenko.

4. Miller is still in his (late) prime for maybe 2 more seasons after which his contract will likely be a drag on the team.

5. Hughes and Demko are both signed through that period (and more).

 

That gives the Canucks the hardest pieces to get in building a Cup contender:

 

a. Three elite or near-elite forwards,

b. A potential Norris-trophy candidate D.

c. Another top pairing quality D.

d. A (we hope) elite goalie.

 

e. The Canucks also believe that they have a high quality coaching staff and other supports in place

to help those guys and everyone else play up to their ability.

 

What they need is a better supporting cast. They need two good second-pairing quality defenders and a good 3C. Maybe even a 4C as an upgrade over Aman and Dries.

All three of those guys need to be able to kill penalties and, ideally, at least a couple of those guys should add to team toughness.

 

Getting those pieces is not easy but it is a lot easier than getting elite or near-elite players.

 

In the current Cap environment getting some good supporting pieces is easier than it usually is, That is where the OEL buyout comes in.

 

JR and PA are looking at making a good run over the next two years. I think things get tougher after that.

That would probably fit with Barlow coming straight in or in a year, should they choose him, although I still believe a D is more likely. 
Simaskev suddenly became very interesting...

Edited by spook007
  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Personally I wouldn't have made the Hronek deal, would have just used this draft as a chance to really stock-pile the prospects and build from within. The Bo deal was a great launching pad. I don't mean to fully rebuild, just slowly grow from within. Much more patient than what Allvin is doing. If Petey and Hughes don't like it they can leave and we can get some massive assets for them leaving. Don't care if management or the fans don't like it.

 

CDC would have loved a full on rebuild the way Chicago have done and just sell all of our top players a few years ago (eg. Miller in his prime), but that's a bit less realistic and a more obvious tank. This would just be a slow tank. Don't sacrifice anything that hurts the team's future. 

 

When you look at Detroit, they're a good team to compare to us. Not to say either is doing better, they're not exactly tanking but they're not making rash moves to try and build around their young core (who are admittedly a bit younger than ours). They're still building - selling a bit, stockpiling picks and prospects, biding their time before making a move.

 

We're making our move now, for better or for worse, but it certainly is a bit odd for such a bad team to "go for it". You don't see many bottom feeders as buyers. CBJ are doing it too which is a bit strange for sure, but they've completely revamped their team. I don't think this is the long-term key to success but it might buy is a short little window or two to get into the playoffs here and there, and then who knows.

 

I'll watch Yzerman's team closely, he knows what he's doing - patiently growing that team value from within, flipping players he may not re-sign at the height of their power for more picks/prospects and keep recycling until the overall team value is higher and higher, then when the kids are in their prime I expect him to gun for it. We didn't do enough of that internal farming IMO.

It’s not a wise plan to piss off your young key core guys who are incredibly difficult to replace. Petey and Hughes are great players. Losing them means a 7-10 year deep diving rebuild in hopes of drafting two guys (who are close in age) as good as they are. It’s actually kind of nuts to try that. As for the Hronek deal it was brilliant. He’s an elite right shot D who is 25. We have him through his best years. Now we have a completed young core that is extremely good. 
Yzerman had to give a press conference at the end of this last season explaining why he traded away a great young D man in Hronek, because their club collapsed after he went out. He said that any mistakes are on him. Detroit needs to improve now and I see Yzerman using his draft picks to acquire older players so the club can be better faster. He’s missed on getting the true élite talent like we have. He knows he made a huge mistake letting Hronek go. SLO Mo is trending like Myers. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Personally I wouldn't have made the Hronek deal, would have just used this draft as a chance to really stock-pile the prospects and build from within. The Bo deal was a great launching pad. I don't mean to fully rebuild, just slowly grow from within. Much more patient than what Allvin is doing. If Petey and Hughes don't like it they can leave and we can get some massive assets for them leaving. Don't care if management or the fans don't like it.

 

CDC would have loved a full on rebuild the way Chicago have done and just sell all of our top players a few years ago (eg. Miller in his prime), but that's a bit less realistic and a more obvious tank. This would just be a slow tank. Don't sacrifice anything that hurts the team's future. 

 

When you look at Detroit, they're a good team to compare to us. Not to say either is doing better, they're not exactly tanking but they're not making rash moves to try and build around their young core (who are admittedly a bit younger than ours). They're still building - selling a bit, stockpiling picks and prospects, biding their time before making a move.

 

We're making our move now, for better or for worse, but it certainly is a bit odd for such a bad team to "go for it". You don't see many bottom feeders as buyers. CBJ are doing it too which is a bit strange for sure, but they've completely revamped their team. I don't think this is the long-term key to success but it might buy is a short little window or two to get into the playoffs here and there, and then who knows.

 

I'll watch Yzerman's team closely, he knows what he's doing - patiently growing that team value from within, flipping players he may not re-sign at the height of their power for more picks/prospects and keep recycling until the overall team value is higher and higher, then when the kids are in their prime I expect him to gun for it. We didn't do enough of that internal farming IMO.

Well, how many bottom teams have a Seike, Norris and Vezina candidate on their team at the same time?

Edited by Timråfan
  • Cheers 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've often thought about "the window" if you're serious you must. As a rule I always thought you needed a top end first line supplemented by a good second line all on their ELC and then the trick came filling out the bottom 6. Plus 4 D'men  and a quality goal tender. We have some of those pieces but not the rest. Our bottom 6 are not up to snuff IMO, they need to be able to spell of thre top 6 without loosing the game. For the play-offs you need some grit along with good defensive skills. PA is trying but has not met the challenge, mainly because of the Cap restrictions.The 24-25 season see's a lot of RFA and UFA so I suspect that will be the moment to to restructure the roster. It ain't happening this coming season

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...