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[Proposals] Arizona and Toronto trades


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Arizona are reportedly changing tack and wanting to be competitive. They need some more top 6 forwards to help with that.

 

Toronto are $3.2m over the cap limit and probably want to resign Samsonov as their starter instead of Matt Murray.

 

Trade 1

To ARI: Boeser

To VAN: 2024 2nd round pick (from FLA) + 3rd round pick (from EDM)

 

Arizona gets a top 6 RW to play on their top line with Hayton and Keller.

 

Trade 2

To TOR: Pearson (50% retained) + Myers (50% retained) + Wolanin

To VAN: Jarnkrok + Brodie + Lafferty

 

TOR buys out Murray and has $5.2m cap left to sign Samsonov ($3.5m), Motte ($900k) and Aston-Reese ($800k).

 

TOR lineup with $40k cap space:

 

 Could contain: Chart, Plot, Text, Page

 

 

 

 

After the 2 proposed trades, VAN lineup with $183k in cap space with improved defense and a decent 3C:

 

Could contain: Text, Page, Chart, Plot

 

 

 

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Not sure why Arizona wants to give us so much back if we're willing to give up a fringe core winger in Boeser.  If we're looking to move cap, other teams won't just give market value for assets like him, as good as Brock is.

I don't get why Toronto does it.  Jarnkrok is useful (40 points, both PP and PK) as is Brodie ($5 million for someone commonly recognized as Toronto's best RD), and Lafferty is a 30 point, 51% faceoff RH center.  They then assume that Pearson is ready to play and would take on the lesser RD in Myers?  I do applaud the ingenuity and effort in the proposal (and maxing out all available cap space does seem like a former Penguins GM special) but I'm really not sure if they would take these downgrades (esp. Brodie to Myers); they could just trade Jarnkrok for a pick and perhaps bury Lafferty and then add on the fringes with the Motte and ZAR deals, but I think TJ is too integral for them to dump to us like that.

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1 hour ago, Phil_314 said:

Not sure why Arizona wants to give us so much back if we're willing to give up a fringe core winger in Boeser.  If we're looking to move cap, other teams won't just give market value for assets like him, as good as Brock is.

I don't get why Toronto does it.  Jarnkrok is useful (40 points, both PP and PK) as is Brodie ($5 million for someone commonly recognized as Toronto's best RD), and Lafferty is a 30 point, 51% faceoff RH center.  They then assume that Pearson is ready to play and would take on the lesser RD in Myers?  I do applaud the ingenuity and effort in the proposal (and maxing out all available cap space does seem like a former Penguins GM special) but I'm really not sure if they would take these downgrades (esp. Brodie to Myers); they could just trade Jarnkrok for a pick and perhaps bury Lafferty and then add on the fringes with the Motte and ZAR deals, but I think TJ is too integral for them to dump to us like that.

Agreed.  TJ Brodie is a top-tier defensive defenceman - his offense has dried up but he has evolved his game since leaving Calgary.  That downgrade is massive and completely disrupts a very strong Toronto blueline.  Liljegren has played great in a third pairing role - it's a big risk to throw him into heavy minutes.  On top of what you said about Järnkrok, he is a winger, not a centre.

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1 hour ago, Phil_314 said:

Not sure why Arizona wants to give us so much back if we're willing to give up a fringe core winger in Boeser.  If we're looking to move cap, other teams won't just give market value for assets like him, as good as Brock is.

I don't get why Toronto does it.  Jarnkrok is useful (40 points, both PP and PK) as is Brodie ($5 million for someone commonly recognized as Toronto's best RD), and Lafferty is a 30 point, 51% faceoff RH center.  They then assume that Pearson is ready to play and would take on the lesser RD in Myers?  I do applaud the ingenuity and effort in the proposal (and maxing out all available cap space does seem like a former Penguins GM special) but I'm really not sure if they would take these downgrades (esp. Brodie to Myers); they could just trade Jarnkrok for a pick and perhaps bury Lafferty and then add on the fringes with the Motte and ZAR deals, but I think TJ is too integral for them to dump to us like that.

Thanks for the comments and thoughts.

 

Arizona are looking to be competitive, so that is why they would be willing to trade some picks for a top 6 forward. They paid a 2nd round pick for Durzi, for example, which is market value even though LAK needed to move cap out. And VAN doesn't NEED to move Boeser, they only do Trade 1 if Arizona is willing to. I wouldn't take less than a 2nd + 3rd for Boeser.

 

Toronto has painted themselves into a corner. They have made a QO to Samsonov, so they are going to have to do something with Murray once the arbitration hearing for Samsonov is completed on 21 July. A buyout of Murray seems imminent as I can't see many teams taking on Murray's cap hit. Let's pretend Samsonov gets awarded $3.5m, then after a Murray buyout, Toronto will have a 22-man roster but will be $1.9m over cap limit. I suppose they could trade Jarnkrok for a pick and waive Lafferty (who'd probably get claimed). Then they will have a 20-man roster with $1.34m in cap space. That's not enough to add 2 minimum salary players. Maybe they waive Timmins too and then have $2.44m in cap space, which gives them just enough space to add 3 minimum salary payers. It will be a poorer bottom 6 and they would only have a 22-man roster for the season, but they keep Brodie, so might be workable. My proposed Trade 2 gives just gives them another option.

 

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1 minute ago, BigTramFan said:

Thanks for the comments and thoughts.

 

Arizona are looking to be competitive, so that is why they would be willing to trade some picks for a top 6 forward. They paid a 2nd round pick for Durzi, for example, which is marlet value even though LAK needed to move cap out. And VAN doesn't NEED to move Boeser, they only do Trade 1 if Arizona is willing to. I wouldn't take less than a 2nd + 3rd for Boeser.

 

Toronto has painted themselves into a corner. They have made a QO to Samsonov, so they are going to have to do something with Murray once the arbitration hearing for Samsonov is completed on 21 July. A buyout of Murray seems imminent as I can't see many teams taking on Murray's cap hit. Let's pretend Samsonov gets awarded $3.5m, then after a Murray buyout, Toronto will have a 22-man roster but will be $1.9m over cap limit. I suppose they could trade Jarnkrok for a pick and waive Lafferty (who'd probably get claimed). Then they will have a 20-man roster with $1.34m in cap space. That's not enough to add 2 minimum salary players. Maybe they waive Timmins too and then have $2.44m in cap space, which gives them just enough space to add 3 minimum salary payers. It will be a poorer bottom 6, but they keep Brodie, so might be workable. My proposed Trade 2 gives just gives them another option.

 

As convoluted as it may sound, this whole scenario sounds pretty believable.

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9 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Agreed.  TJ Brodie is a top-tier defensive defenceman - his offense has dried up but he has evolved his game since leaving Calgary.  That downgrade is massive and completely disrupts a very strong Toronto blueline.  Liljegren has played great in a third pairing role - it's a big risk to throw him into heavy minutes.  On top of what you said about Järnkrok, he is a winger, not a centre.

Jarnkrok has played center for most of his career

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So Toronto gifts us a pretty good 3C and a suitable RD in Brodie while accepting our cap dumps of Myers and Pearson? 

 

Wow, you must have saved Scotiabank Arena from blowing up secretly we didn't know about to get that big of a favor. 

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11 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Trade 2

To TOR: Pearson (50% retained) + Myers (50% retained) + Wolanin

To VAN: Jarnkrok + Brodie + Lafferty

Toronto can trade those players for  assets instead of a player that hasn't played in years and cap dump. I doubt Toronto belives getting rid of Brodie and bringing in Myers helps get them the cup. Props on the creative proposal though.

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15 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Arizona are reportedly changing tack and wanting to be competitive. They need some more top 6 forwards to help with that.

 

Toronto are $3.2m over the cap limit and probably want to resign Samsonov as their starter instead of Matt Murray.

 

Trade 1

To ARI: Boeser

To VAN: 2024 2nd round pick (from FLA) + 3rd round pick (from EDM)

 

Arizona gets a top 6 RW to play on their top line with Hayton and Keller.

 

Trade 2

To TOR: Pearson (50% retained) + Myers (50% retained) + Wolanin

To VAN: Jarnkrok + Brodie + Lafferty

 

TOR buys out Murray and has $5.2m cap left to sign Samsonov ($3.5m), Motte ($900k) and Aston-Reese ($800k).

 

TOR lineup with $40k cap space:

 

 Could contain: Chart, Plot, Text, Page

 

 

 

 

After the 2 proposed trades, VAN lineup with $183k in cap space with improved defense and a decent 3C:

 

Could contain: Text, Page, Chart, Plot

 

 

 

Personally, I don't really have anything against your proposal, but I will tell you, Arizona has zero interest in spending draft picks to acquire players, especially guys who are going to cost them actual dollars against the cap. You would have better option of flipping Myers to them, once his 5 million is paid as they could eat up 6 million in cap with only 1 million spent.

 

They need to get into a permanent home that allows them to bring in more than 4600 fans a night. Until that happens, they have NO interest in spend actual money on the cap.

 

If you could show them teams and players where they could collect cast offs and ice a team next year that had a 70 million cap hit but their actual dollars spent are around 40 - 45 million, they would kiss the ground you walk on. Everything that they have done for the last 3 years is about trading players who are ready to take next step, for draft picks that allow them to kick the ball down the road for when they will be economically ready to ice an actual team. Arizona will compete hard for the 1st overall selection for at least the next two summers.

 

5 or 6 years from now, where ever they are playing, they will be a scary team to play against and a solid cup contender, just based on the young assets they have already acquired from their strategy.

 

So, circling back to what I was saying above concerning Boeser, if you want to spend a 1st round pick to dump him at 50% retained and pay another team a 2nd or 3rd round pick to absorb another 25% of his cap hit so that they could have him at around 1.66 million and the ability to turn him into more draft assets at the next deadline, don't even bother trying to trade to them. It's not the type of deals they are looking for. Even if you offered him for Future consideration, they aren't interested as it would cost them real dollars to do the deal and float him till trade deadline.

 

I'm not trying to diminish what I believe Boeser's actual value is, only establish what Arizona's interest in spending money is.

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7 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

Personally, I don't really have anything against your proposal, but I will tell you, Arizona has zero interest in spending draft picks to acquire players, especially guys who are going to cost them actual dollars against the cap. You would have better option of flipping Myers to them, once his 5 million is paid as they could eat up 6 million in cap with only 1 million spent.

 

They need to get into a permanent home that allows them to bring in more than 4600 fans a night. Until that happens, they have NO interest in spend actual money on the cap.

 

If you could show them teams and players where they could collect cast offs and ice a team next year that had a 70 million cap hit but their actual dollars spent are around 40 - 45 million, they would kiss the ground you walk on. Everything that they have done for the last 3 years is about trading players who are ready to take next step, for draft picks that allow them to kick the ball down the road for when they will be economically ready to ice an actual team. Arizona will compete hard for the 1st overall selection for at least the next two summers.

 

5 or 6 years from now, where ever they are playing, they will be a scary team to play against and a solid cup contender, just based on the young assets they have already acquired from their strategy.

 

So, circling back to what I was saying above concerning Boeser, if you want to spend a 1st round pick to dump him at 50% retained and pay another team a 2nd or 3rd round pick to absorb another 25% of his cap hit so that they could have him at around 1.66 million and the ability to turn him into more draft assets at the next deadline, don't even bother trying to trade to them. It's not the type of deals they are looking for. Even if you offered him for Future consideration, they aren't interested as it would cost them real dollars to do the deal and float him till trade deadline.

 

I'm not trying to diminish what I believe Boeser's actual value is, only establish what Arizona's interest in spending money is.

Well, I could see where he is coming from. Arizona does want to ice a more competitive team to drive up fan interest and try to get a larger and permanent arena to play in. 
 

However, that Toronto proposal was just plain ridiculous. It’s assuming Toronto is backed into a corner and have no other trading partners.

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18 minutes ago, Citizen Erased said:

Well, I could see where he is coming from. Arizona does want to ice a more competitive team to drive up fan interest and try to get a larger and permanent arena to play in. 
 

However, that Toronto proposal was just plain ridiculous. It’s assuming Toronto is backed into a corner and have no other trading partners.

Yup, Arizona only wants to be as competitive as they can be on the lowest amount of actual dollars possible. 

 

There was no reason to trade Chychrun other than they didn't want to have to pay him what his next contract is worth. Once they are in a new building, they will start spending again. Until then, it's Draft picks and more draft picks. 

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9 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

Personally, I don't really have anything against your proposal, but I will tell you, Arizona has zero interest in spending draft picks to acquire players, especially guys who are going to cost them actual dollars against the cap. You would have better option of flipping Myers to them, once his 5 million is paid as they could eat up 6 million in cap with only 1 million spent.

 

They need to get into a permanent home that allows them to bring in more than 4600 fans a night. Until that happens, they have NO interest in spend actual money on the cap.

 

If you could show them teams and players where they could collect cast offs and ice a team next year that had a 70 million cap hit but their actual dollars spent are around 40 - 45 million, they would kiss the ground you walk on. Everything that they have done for the last 3 years is about trading players who are ready to take next step, for draft picks that allow them to kick the ball down the road for when they will be economically ready to ice an actual team. Arizona will compete hard for the 1st overall selection for at least the next two summers.

 

5 or 6 years from now, where ever they are playing, they will be a scary team to play against and a solid cup contender, just based on the young assets they have already acquired from their strategy.

 

So, circling back to what I was saying above concerning Boeser, if you want to spend a 1st round pick to dump him at 50% retained and pay another team a 2nd or 3rd round pick to absorb another 25% of his cap hit so that they could have him at around 1.66 million and the ability to turn him into more draft assets at the next deadline, don't even bother trying to trade to them. It's not the type of deals they are looking for. Even if you offered him for Future consideration, they aren't interested as it would cost them real dollars to do the deal and float him till trade deadline.

 

I'm not trying to diminish what I believe Boeser's actual value is, only establish what Arizona's interest in spending money is.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

I understand Arizona has been looking for those kinds of deals for the past 5 years. But, for example, they just signed UFA Zucker to a $5.3m contract because they are looking to compete. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that they would be interested in Boeser. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

I understand Arizona has been looking for those kinds of deals for the past 5 years. But, for example, they just signed UFA Zucker to a $5.3m contract because they are looking to compete. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that they would be interested in Boeser. 

 

 

They didn't have to give up assets to add Zucker.  They might also be hoping to flip him at the TDL.  He's also an established player that's going to bring leadership and work ethic to a very young team.  Every indication is that Zucker has impeccable work ethic and trains like a madman in the off-season.   


Arizona coming out of their tank and looking for their young player to take the next step so they can be more competitive.  Zucker seems a better fit because of his leadership/work ethic to help that young team take the next step vs Boeser who is trying to get back on track and whose work ethic looks to have slipped.   Tocchet was highlighting how Boeser had to improve his conditioning and work on his footspeed and also talked of how he had to backcheck more.  Arizona are relentless under Tourigny while that hasn't really been Boeser.  

 

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