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Canuck GM’s and draft success: who was best?

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Ray_Cathode

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  • Ray_Cathode changed the title to Canuck GM’s and draft success: who was best?
1 hour ago, Ray_Cathode said:

I was looking back on the Canucks history at the draft to see which GM had the most success. Jake Milford was gm from 1977 through 1981, gone by June 1982.  
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Here is his record: 

 

1977: Hits on rounds 1,3,4 J. Gillis, Hanson, and Bannerman all played over 200 NHL games.

1978: Hits on rounds 1,2,3,4,5 Derlago, Fraser, Smyl, Brad Smith, and Jerry Minor - only Minor played less than 200 games.

1979: Hits on rounds 1,2,5 Vaive, Ashton, Graham - all more than 700 NHL games

1980: Hits in all rounds except the eighth, four played more than 170 games: Lanz, Crawford, Lidster, and Sundstrom.

1981: Hits in all rounds except the tenth, four played more than one hundred and eighty games: NHL games: Butcher, Wendell Young, Lemay and Skriko.

 

Pretty amazing draft record. The subsequent years yielded very little. 1982 yielded Petit. 1983 yielded Neely, Bruce and Lowry, 1984 yielded only Daigneault. 1985 yielded Sandlak, Akron and Larionov. 1986 yielded only Stern a fourth rounder. 1987 yielded only Valk a fifth rounder.

 

I’d say Milford pretty much set the standard for draft success, at least with regard to later round success.

 

Milly was the guy who could draft the supplementary players that could win championships but he couldn't draft a game breaker or star to save his life.

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17 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Whomever the GM is in place when we win a cup, will have done the impossible.

He will certainly have done the extremely difficult. But if it is going to be done it will require the development of kids we draft into strong NHL pros. I like what we are doing in Abby - we are actually developing our prospects. 

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7 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

I was looking back on the Canucks history at the draft to see which GM had the most success. Jake Milford was gm from 1977 through 1981, gone by June 1982.  
Could contain: Face, Head, Person, Photography, Portrait, Adult, Male, Man, Formal Wear, Tie

 

Here is his record: 

 

1977: Hits on rounds 1,3,4 J. Gillis, Hanlon, and Bannerman all played over 200 NHL games.

1978: Hits on rounds 1,2,3,4,5 Derlago, Fraser, Smyl, Brad Smith, and Jerry Minor - only Minor played less than 200 games.

1979: Hits on rounds 1,2,5 Vaive, Ashton, Graham - all more than 700 NHL games

1980: Hits in all rounds except the eighth, four played more than 170 games: Lanz, Crawford, Lidster, and Sundstrom.

1981: Hits in all rounds except the tenth, four played more than one hundred and eighty games: NHL games: Butcher, Wendell Young, Lemay and Skriko.

 

Pretty amazing draft record. The subsequent years yielded very little. 1982 yielded Petit. 1983 yielded Neely, Bruce and Lowry, 1984 yielded only Daigneault. 1985 yielded Sandlak, Ashton, and Larionov. 1986 yielded only Stern a fourth rounder. 1987 yielded only Valk a fifth rounder.

 

I’d say Milford pretty much set the standard for draft success, at least with regard to later round success.

 

A lot of these names were much better than people who weren't watching back then will realize.

 

Bannerman was an All Star and Hanlon got Vezina votes in multiple years.  Derlago was a 40 goal scorer.  Brent Ashton 1000 games.  Dirk Graham a Selke winner and Hawks captain.  Lanz a 50 point defenseman.  Lidster held the Canucks D scoring record for almost 40 years.  Butcher also an All Star and NHL captain.  Wendell Young a legit 1B/2A goalie.

 

People will hopefully know Vaive for his three 50 goal seasons and any Canucks history aficionado ought to know Smyl, Skriko and Sundstrom...but even all four of these guys are underappreciated some decades later.

 

Anyway Milford was really good but these were also some strong draft years.  With regard to an earlier comment...Vaive would probably be the counterexample to the suggestion he never drafted a true star.  But of course we traded him and Derlago to go big in the early 80s and it actually paid off with the 1982 run.

 

Not sure what you mean by Ashton in 1985 if we're talking about Brent Ashton.  We had drafted and traded him before the 1982 run I think.  Very solid and underappreciated player...just a dependable 1000 game, 60 points a season kind of guy...like Mike Foligno or Tony McKegney.

 

Edited by Kevin Biestra
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36 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

A lot of these names were much better than people who weren't watching back then will realize.

 

Bannerman was an All Star and Hanlon got Vezina votes in multiple years.  Derlago was a 40 goal scorer.  Brent Ashton 1000 games.  Dirk Graham a Selke winner and Hawks captain.  Lanz a 50 point defenseman.  Lidster held the Canucks D scoring record for almost 40 years.  Butcher also an All Star and NHL captain.  Wendell Young a legit 1B/2A goalie.

 

People will hopefully know Vaive for his three 50 goal seasons and any Canucks history aficionado ought to know Smyl, Skriko and Sundstrom...but even all four of these guys are underappreciated some decades later.

 

Anyway Milford was really good but these were also some strong draft years.  With regard to an earlier comment...Vaive would probably be the counterexample to the suggestion he never drafted a true star.  But of course we traded him and Derlago to go big in the early 80s and it actually paid off with the 1982 run.

 

Not sure what you mean by Ashton in 1985 if we're talking about Brent Ashton.  We had drafted and traded him before the 1982 run I think.  Very solid and underappreciated player...just a dependable 1000 game, 60 points a season kind of guy...like Mike Foligno or Tony McKegney.

 

Yes, that is Brent Ashton. Another draftee, Dirk Graham, never played for the Canucks, and did not make the league till he was 24 for six games. He became a full season regular at 26. He ended up playing 772 games, scoring 489 points. In another oddity, prior to Henrik Sedin, only one other Canuck draftee scored more than a hundred points in a season. Mike Rogers twice had one hundred and five points - 1979-80, and 1980-81 - but he never played a single game for the Canucks.

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41 minutes ago, Canuck You said:

Well, My friend Mr Mike Gillis came the closest and his drafting was absolute sh!t.

Which only further highlights that winning clubs are built more through smart trades and wise free agent signings than the draft. Draft picks and prospects are trade capital, unless they are super elite like Hughes and Petey. Otherwise use picks and prospects to acquire more elite (or key) players like Allvin just did with Hronek. Gillis did a masterful job using free agency and trades to build the best clubs we ever had. Allvin is doing the same now. Something Benning :picard: certainly failed miserably at doing. 

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6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Which only further highlights that winning clubs are built more through smart trades and wise free agent signings than the draft. Draft picks and prospects are trade capital, unless they are super elite like Hughes and Petey. Otherwise use picks and prospects to acquire more elite (or key) players like Allvin just did with Hronek. Gillis did a masterful job using free agency and trades to build the best clubs we ever had. Allvin is doing the same now. Something Benning :picard: certainly failed miserably at doing. 

It’s a miracle Pettersson and Hughes are what they are now. No kudos to Benning though. These guys made themselves into the superstars they are today.

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1 hour ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Yes, that is Brent Ashton. Another draftee, Dirk Graham, never played for the Canucks, and did not make the league till he was 24 for six games. He became a full season regular at 26. He ended up playing 772 games, scoring 489 points. In another oddity, prior to Henrik Sedin, only one other Canuck draftee scored more than a hundred points in a season. Mike Rogers twice had one hundred and five points - 1979-80, and 1980-81 - but he never played a single game for the Canucks.

 

Yeah Rogers is one of the completely forgotten great players.  Like Blaine Stoughton or John Ogrodnick but more consistent.  He had a run like Barry Pederson did at the start.  And one of the guys who scored more prolifically in the NHL than he did in the WHA.

 

Edited by Kevin Biestra
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5 hours ago, Canuck You said:

Well, My friend Mr Mike Gillis came the closest and his drafting was absolute sh!t.

Gillis got as far as Pat Quinn. And we lost by one goal. So I'd say Quinn is closer.

That's why neither count, because no GM has won a cup here.

We're not talking about horseshoes. So close doesn't cut it.

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9 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

These takes always bug me, you can’t skewer the guy for his misses, but dismiss him for his hits.  

That's probably more a shot at Benning total ignorance at hiring head coaches (but that's just my take).  You need good coaches to help steer prospects in the right direction.  Even a superstar like EP was looking like a deer staring at headlights under Travis "The Blender" Green.

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23 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

I was looking back on the Canucks history at the draft to see which GM had the most success. Jake Milford was gm from 1977 through 1981, gone by June 1982.  
Could contain: Face, Head, Person, Photography, Portrait, Adult, Male, Man, Formal Wear, Tie

 

Here is his record: 

 

1977: Hits on rounds 1,3,4 J. Gillis, Hanlon, and Bannerman all played over 200 NHL games.

1978: Hits on rounds 1,2,3,4,5 Derlago, Fraser, Smyl, Brad Smith, and Jerry Minor - only Minor played less than 200 games.

1979: Hits on rounds 1,2,5 Vaive, Ashton, Graham - all more than 700 NHL games

1980: Hits in all rounds except the eighth, four played more than 170 games: Lanz, Crawford, Lidster, and Sundstrom.

1981: Hits in all rounds except the tenth, four played more than one hundred and eighty games: NHL games: Butcher, Wendell Young, Lemay and Skriko.

 

Pretty amazing draft record. The subsequent years yielded very little. 1982 yielded Petit. 1983 yielded Neely, Bruce and Lowry, 1984 yielded only Daigneault. 1985 yielded Sandlak, Ashton, and Larionov. 1986 yielded only Stern a fourth rounder. 1987 yielded only Valk a fifth rounder.

 

I’d say Milford pretty much set the standard for draft success, at least with regard to later round success.

 

Yep. He sure did.   A few years ago when JB fanboys were drooling over his drafting record - I was quick to bring up Milford.   He was the best drafter in our history, and really - it's not even close.   Burke had some bombs and some big hits.  Given where he drafted.  Quin was a way better trader than he was a drafter, which says something given Linden,  Nedved, Bure, Ohlund.  

Edited by IBatch
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It isn't brought up enough but remember the Canucks in the early days weren't a team that operated on a 'big budget'.  That has to have an impact on the amount of money they could spend on scouting.  The more "eyes you have out there" (amateur scouts on payroll), the less a chance you'll miss somebody in a 'beer league' for example (eg., Edler).  That extends on down the farm club (I seem to recall the Canucks 'shared' the farm club with another team once in while which isn't ideal since you don't have a total say as to which prospects get the icetime).

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12 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

It isn't brought up enough but remember the Canucks in the early days weren't a team that operated on a 'big budget'.  That has to have an impact on the amount of money they could spend on scouting.  The more "eyes you have out there" (amateur scouts on payroll), the less a chance you'll miss somebody in a 'beer league' for example (eg., Edler).  That extends on down the farm club (I seem to recall the Canucks 'shared' the farm club with another team once in while which isn't ideal since you don't have a total say as to which prospects get the icetime).

Yep.   What Pat Quin's staff had was nothing at all like the staffs of today, and for sure less for Milford as staff's started to get bigger in the 90's.  Curiously, it didn't matter much at all, draft wise other than a little tiny bump, which is given to development staff.   That's 1990-2010.    In other words, hits busts etc, round to round, didn't change much even though staffs quadrupled.   It's still the first round that matters the most, then the second, and the third round matches the 4-9th (7today).   It didn't change much at all.   That minuscule change, is considered more to do with the added developmental staff, than the actual scouts.   Shows how much of a crapshoot it actually is.   You can't win if you don't play though.   Something JB and Aquaman never figured out really. 

Edited by IBatch
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As of right now

IMO Brian Burke was the most successful at drafting.

Daniel Sedin

Henrik Sedin

Kevin Bieksa
Ryan Kesler


In 5 years time, Jim Benning’s drafting could very well take over the #1 spot. Only time will tell. He’s off to a pretty good start and there is still quite a bit of potential. I say 5 years because that is about the time we should be able to determine who is a boom or a bust.

Edited by AnthonyG
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4 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

As of right now

IMO Brian Burke was the most successful at drafting.

Daniel Sedin

Henrik Sedin

Kevin Bieksa
Ryan Kesler

Cory Schneider

Alex Edler

Jannik Hansen


In 5 years time, Jim Benning’s drafting could very well take over the #1 spot. Only time will tell. He’s off to a pretty good start and there is still quite a bit of potential. I say 5 years because that is about the time we should be able to determine who is a boom or a bust.

Benning:

 

 

 

Petterson

Hughes

Demko

Podkolzin

Hoglander

 

JB drafted 3 stars, that's about it... he had a lot of misses (as have most of out GMs) 

 

I agree with Milford being the best hands down both % hits but also drafting high end players who played hundreds of games

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29 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

Benning:

 

 

 

Petterson

Hughes

Demko

Podkolzin

Hoglander

 

JB drafted 3 stars, that's about it... he had a lot of misses (as have most of out GMs) 

 

I agree with Milford being the best hands down both % hits but also drafting high end players who played hundreds of games

How long did it take for a lot of Burke’s guys to develop?

you gotta be fair and give time for the rest of JBs work to show. 
Petey

Hughes were waaay ahead of the twins, Edler, Schneider when they got their shot. 
Lets not dismiss Boeser either.

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