[DEBATE] Who is the greatest goaltender in NHL history?

[Citizen Erased]

4 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

But…. He’s the only one with good in his name….. what does that say about the rest? 

Roy cant even pronounce his name right

Terry saw Chuck but didnt even say hi?

Martin i aint your bro durr

Jacques Plante, planted what??

Dominik Hasek?? More like Hasekbeen

Bill Durnan. For what and how much? 

Ken Dryden? He sleeps in a dry den? Or he dried the den? I dont get it.

 

 

And Tom Barasso is in a bar, asshole!

[Dr. Crossbar]

Hasek ...

 

And it becomes more and more clear as the years pass. I really don't think it's close.

 

I think people's emotions surrounding Roy clouded their judgement when it came to Hasek. 

 

It's finally great years on now to finally see more of a consensus around Hasek.

 

Imo, he's the greatest ever and we were lucky to have seen him. Also Roy, Brodeur, and so many others. 

 

I also believe Hasek would dominate today in this era as well. 

 

 

[Gurn]

Hasek won more than a few games, before the puck dropped.

The Dominator, did just that.

Good teams knew they had to be at their best to beat him, and often couldn't

Bad teams knew they didn't have a chance.

[wai_lai416]

skillwise and at their peak? probably the dominator.. if he played behind the likes of montreal colorado new jersey.. he'd probably have a lot more cups and way more wins to his ledger.. and he still hold the career sv% for a goalie speaks a lot.

[Elias Pettersson]

8 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

 

The celebration pose in the 1982 playoffs wouldn't be too bad of a statue.

 

I think it's actually crazy.  Smyl's jersey retired, a statue of Roger Nielsen, Gradin and Snepsts in the Ring of Honour...and then nothing at all for the guy who actually got us to the final.

 

The others are all deserving of their honours but Jeez Louise...

 

Brodeur’s numbers are horrible.  His only claim to fame for the Canucks was that one magical run to the finals. I don’t think that is deserving of the Ring of Honour. 
 

Fun fact. I met Richard at my buddy’s wedding 12 years ago. I was the MC at the wedding. I spoke to him after the dinner and he told me I was the best MC he had ever heard. Coming from a guy who owns an entertainment company, that was a big compliment to me. So I do have a soft spot for him. But I wouldn’t put him anywhere near the Ring of Honour. 

[Ilunga]

On 8/22/2023 at 1:18 AM, smithers joe said:

i don't know how terry sawchuck would fare in today's game but he excelled back in a time before plante created face masks.

i wonder how the modern goaltenders would fare without face masks.

And there it is !

Those guys had balls made of steel.

Imagine being in goal and the Rocket flying down the ice firing a puck at you.....

[Devron]

On 8/21/2023 at 4:14 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

George Hainsworth retired in 1936.  So, you would need to be over 100 years old to have seen him play.  Only 316,000 people out of $7.8 billion in this world are currently over 100 years old, so more than likely none of those 316,000 people are currently members of CDC...

I’m legit surprised there are 316,000 out there 

[Devron]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

And there it is !

Those guys had balls made of steel.

Imagine being in goal and the Rocket flying down the ice firing a puck at you.....

I would go into mad rages. Try and fight the players to be honest 

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, Devron said:

I would go into mad rages. Try and fight the players to be honest 

One of my close friends is a tender like you, he plays for the Melbourne Night Owls.

Up until last year he had crappy pads.

He was always covered in bruises, upper body after a game.

Over 25 years ago when I first went to Canada he got me one of the first type of goalie masks from Value Village.

Even wearing one of those things I would $hit myself in goal.

[Devron]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

One of my close friends is a tender like you, he plays for the Melbourne Night Owls.

Up until last year he had crappy pads.

He was always covered in bruises, upper body after a game.

Over 25 years ago when I first went to Canada he got me one of the first type of goalie masks from Value Village.

Even wearing one of those things I would $hit myself in goal.

Tough dude. I’ve had some pretty legit stuff over the years but still get pissed when I get hit in the head. My helmet is 10 years old so that doesn’t help. I just always think players need to learn how to shoot. 
 

I recently hung them up though. Being a single dad, it was too much. Being a goalie you’re expected to show up always. I’d like to get some player equipment some day 

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, Devron said:

Tough dude. I’ve had some pretty legit stuff over the years but still get pissed when I get hit in the head. My helmet is 10 years old so that doesn’t help. I just always think players need to learn how to shoot. 
 

I recently hung them up though. Being a single dad, it was too much. Being a goalie you’re expected to show up always. I’d like to get some player equipment some day 

As we have talked about you are going to be a hockey dad soon.

I get more joy from my son's happiness than I do from things I do for myself.

It's mind-blowing my friend how good it is to be a dad.

 

[Devron]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

As we have talked about you are going to be a hockey dad soon.

I get more joy from my son's happiness than I do from things I do for myself.

It's mind-blowing my friend how good it is to be a dad.

 

You’re absolutely right my friend 

[Kevin Biestra]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Brodeur’s numbers are horrible.  His only claim to fame for the Canucks was that one magical run to the finals. I don’t think that is deserving of the Ring of Honour. 
 

Fun fact. I met Richard at my buddy’s wedding 12 years ago. I was the MC at the wedding. I spoke to him after the dinner and he told me I was the best MC he had ever heard. Coming from a guy who owns an entertainment company, that was a big compliment to me. So I do have a soft spot for him. But I wouldn’t put him anywhere near the Ring of Honour. 

 

His other claims to fame as a Canuck...  6th for the Vezina, selected for the 1983 All Star Game, 3x Canucks MVP for the season (same as Pavel Bure and more than either Sedin), led NHL goaltenders in games played.

Aside from his other accolades...starter for Quebec Nordiques in winning the WHA AVCO Cup (against Bobby Hull), starter for another run to the final, post-season All Star Team in the WHA, WHA Hall of Fame, led WHA in games played, first ever winner of the Memorial Cup MVP Trophy, his statistical records for that Memorial Cup run stood for about 30 years.

 

His GAA for the Canucks was high but he was the starter in the Smythe Division for the least talented team in the division against not just Gretzky every year but also for pretty much every year in his division: Marcel Dionne, Paul Coffey, Dale Hawerchuk, Jari Kurri, Mark Messier Glenn Anderson, Lanny McDonald, Kent Nilsson, Dave Taylor, Charlie Simmer...  The division (except for the Canucks themselves) was a scoring murderers' row and there wasn't a single other goalie in the NHL or in the division who was a starter in the division for all of Gretzky's prime goal scoring years.  All the other teams in the division were a goalie carousel or in the case of the Oilers there were two permanent goalies but the both only played 40ish games each AND they were on Gretzky's team not facing him.  All four teams in the Smythe that Vancouver had to play on the regular had at least one 130 point player during Brodeur's time having to face them...in the Oilers' case three of them including a 215 point player and that doesn't even include Messier and Anderson.  The Canucks never had better than a 91 point player.  Goalies got to relax against the Canucks.  Brodeur was under fire every game against every team in the division.  Of course his GAA wasn't terribly low.

 

 

Edited August 23 by Kevin Biestra

[allegend]

Turk Broda was one of the best goalies of all time. He also missed 2.5 years of his prime

fighting in the Second World War. He was great in the playoffs, with a goals against average

of 1.98, and winning 5 Cups. I would certainly rank him up there with Roy as the greatest

playoff goalie.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

His other claims to fame as a Canuck...  6th for the Vezina, selected for the 1983 All Star Game, 3x Canucks MVP for the season (same as Pavel Bure and more than either Sedin), led NHL goaltenders in games played.

Aside from his other accolades...starter for Quebec Nordiques in winning the WHA AVCO Cup (against Bobby Hull), starter for another run to the final, post-season All Star Team in the WHA, WHA Hall of Fame, led WHA in games played, first ever winner of the Memorial Cup MVP Trophy, his statistical records for that Memorial Cup run stood for about 30 years.

 

His GAA for the Canucks was high but he was the starter in the Smythe Division for the least talented team in the division against not just Gretzky every year but also pretty much every year in his division: Marcel Dionne, Paul Coffey, Dale Hawerchuk, Jari Kurri, Mark Messier Glenn Anderson, Lanny McDonald, Kent Nilsson, Dave Taylor, Charlie Simmer...  The division (except for the Canucks themselves) was a scoring murderers' row and there wasn't a single goalie in the NHL or in the division who was a starter in the division for all of Gretzky's prime goal scoring years.  All the other teams in the division were a goalie carousel or in the case of the Oilers there were two goalies but the both only played 40ish games each AND they were on Gretzky's team not facing him.  Brodeur was All four teams in the Smythe had at least one 130 point player during Brodeur's time having to face them...in the Oilers' case three of them plus a 215 point player and a guy who would also score 129.  The Canucks never had better than a 91 point player.  Goalies got to relax against the Canucks a bit.  Brodeur was under fire every game against every team in the division.  Of course his GAA wasn't terribly low.

 

 

Like I said, he had that one magical run in the playoffs and that 1981-1982 season overall was his best season with a 3.36 GAA.  The rest of his career was horrible.  The number of games he played is irrelevant and so are his WHA numbers when it comes to putting him in the Canucks ROH.  Not sure being a Canucks MVP 3 times when you are on one of the worst teams in the league means very much.  When the Sedins and Bure won their MVP’s the Canucks were actually a Stanley Cup contender.

 

He had 3 consecutive seasons with a GAA over 4.00 and he also led the league in goals against in 1984-85 and 1985-86.  He was literally the 2nd worst goalie in the entire NHL in 1984-85 statistically, the only goalie worse than him was his backup Frank Caprice.  In 1985-86 he had worse numbers than his backup Wendell Young.  

 

I watched Brodeur play almost his entire career, I was in attendance at the Pacific Coliseum during those years.  I was in the building when we played the New York Islanders in the finals.  I was also in the building after the finals during the worst period in Canucks history, when only 6,000-7,000 people showed up to watch the games.  They picked their two guys they wanted from that era to be in the ROH, I would have picked Snepsts and Gradin over Brodeur as well, they did more overall during that brutal period in Canucks history.  Thank God Pat Quinn arrived in 1988, if he didn’t show up the team most likely would have been sold.

 

I actually like Richard Brodeur.  He’s a real classy guy that I met in person and got to chat with.  But it would be disrespectful to McLean and Luongo to put him in the ROH beside two of the best goalies in Canucks history where one is an actual Hall of Famer and where both goalies almost won both the Vezina and the Hart trophies.  If you are putting Richard Brodeur in the ROH then you are opening up a whole lot of other players that need to go in as well.  I’m pretty sure they want to keep that ROH small and not have like 20-30 guys in it.  Luongo is going in this year.  I doubt they put anyone else in for awhile.  If anyone else goes in it’s probably someone from the 2011 team.  My guess would be Ryan Kesler.  

[Kevin Biestra]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Like I said, he had that one magical run in the playoffs and that 1981-1982 season overall was his best season with a 3.36 GAA.  The rest of his career was horrible.  The number of games he played is irrelevant and so are his WHA numbers when it comes to putting him in the Canucks ROH.  Not sure being a Canucks MVP 3 times when you are on one of the worst teams in the league means very much.  When the Sedins and Bure won their MVP’s the Canucks were actually a Stanley Cup contender.

 

He had 3 consecutive seasons with a GAA over 4.00 and he also led the league in goals against in 1984-85 and 1985-86.  He was literally the 2nd worst goalie in the entire NHL in 1984-85 statistically, the only goalie worse than him was his backup Frank Caprice.  In 1985-86 he had worse numbers than his backup Wendell Young.  

 

I watched Brodeur play almost his entire career, I was in attendance at the Pacific Coliseum during those years.  I was in the building when we played the New York Islanders in the finals.  I was also in the building after the finals during the worst period in Canucks history, when only 6,000-7,000 people showed up to watch the games.  They picked their two guys they wanted from that era to be in the ROH, I would have picked Snepsts and Gradin over Brodeur as well, they did more overall during that brutal period in Canucks history.  Thank God Pat Quinn arrived in 1988, if he didn’t show up the team most likely would have been sold.

 

I actually like Richard Brodeur.  He’s a real classy guy that I met in person and got to chat with.  But it would be disrespectful to McLean and Luongo to put him in the ROH beside two of the best goalies in Canucks history where one is an actual Hall of Famer and where both goalies almost won both the Vezina and the Hart trophies.  If you are putting Richard Brodeur in the ROH then you are opening up a whole lot of other players that need to go in as well.  I’m pretty sure they want to keep that ROH small and not have like 20-30 guys in it.  Luongo is going in this year.  I doubt they put anyone else in for awhile.  If anyone else goes in it’s probably someone from the 2011 team.  My guess would be Ryan Kesler.  

 

I don't think you're being terribly fair to Richard Brodeur's career as a Canuck.  You say what is his claim to fame as a Canuck other than the 1982 run.  Aside from providing several other claims that you discounted...like 3x team MVP not counting for anything or leading all goalies in games played not counting...which they do...

 

What really are the claims to fame of Harold Snepsts or Thomas Gradin that Brodeur doesn't match or exceed.  Or Mattias Ohlund or Orland Kurtenbach for that matter...and I think all four belong in the ROH.  But since you phrased it that way...

 

I'll stick with Snepsts and Gradin since they were on the 1982 team.  Gradin topped out as an 86 point player.  He had a very respectable 19 points in 17 games in the 1982 run but that didn't come close to leading the league in playoff scoring.  Brodeur led the league in playoff save percentage.  Even with the sweep in the final working in Billy Smith's favor and against Brodeur, Brodeur still had a better save percentage after the playoffs.  The best...in the entire league.

 

That 3.36 GAA you cited was 6th best in the NHL in 1982 and he did that in the same division as Gretzky the year he scored 92 goals and 212 points.  Managed the sixth best GAA in the league while facing that version of Gretzky more than any other goalie.

 

He retired as the Canucks' career leader in games, wins, minutes, playoff games, playoff wins, etc. for goalies.  He was the Stan Smyl of goalies the same way McLean then became the Linden and Luongo the Sedins of goalies.

 

 

The suggestion that King Richard in the ROH would open the floodgates for 20-30 guys is absolutely ridiculous.

Edited August 23 by Kevin Biestra

[Elias Pettersson]

4 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I don't think you're being terribly fair to Richard Brodeur's career as a Canuck.  You say what is his claim to fame as a Canuck other than the 1982 run.  Aside from providing several other claims that you discounted...like 3x team MVP not counting for anything or leading all goalies in games played not counting...which they do...

 

What really are the claims to fame of Harold Snepsts or Thomas Gradin that Brodeur doesn't match or exceed.  Or Mattias Ohlund or Orland Kurtenbach for that matter...and I think all four belong in the ROH.  But since you phrased it that way...

 

I'll stick with Snepsts and Gradin since they were on the 1982 team.  Gradin topped out as an 86 point player.  He had a very respectable 19 points in 17 games in the 1982 run but that didn't come close to leading the league in playoff scoring.  Brodeur led the league in playoff save percentage.  Even with the sweep in the final working in Billy Smith's favor and against Brodeur, Brodeur still had a better save percentage after the playoffs.  The best...in the entire league.

 

That 3.36 GAA you cited was 6th best in the NHL in 1982 and he did that in the same division as Gretzky the year he scored 92 goals and 212 points.  Managed the sixth best GAA in the league while facing that version of Gretzky more than any other goalie.

 

He retired as the Canucks' career leader in games, wins, minutes, playoff games, playoff wins, etc. for goalies.  He was the Stan Smyl of goalies the same way McLean then became the Linden and Luongo the Sedins of goalies.

 

 

The suggestion that King Richard in the ROH would open the floodgates for 20-30 guys is absolutely ridiculous.

Stan Smyl and Thomas Gradin were the faces of the Canucks franchise during the early to mid 1980's.  Snepsts was the face of the franchise even earlier that that, even before my time.  I was at the games, people were chanting "Harold" all the time.  He was a Canucks legend.  I'm surprised his number isn't retired.  Gradin was our top scorer who centered our top line with Smyl and Fraser.  That line was one of the better lines in the entire NHL for a period of time.  Gradin retired as our leading scorer until others passed him by.  People went to the Pacific Coliseum to watch that line play, that's all we used to talk about back in the day.  Smyl and Gradin were our star players before Richard Brodeur even arrived on the scene.

 

Of course, we also talked about Richard Brodeur.  He came afterwards.  He was King Richard when we watched him play in 1981-82 and during that magical playoff run.  He was King Richard during that magical run.  However, he wasn't really King Richard afterwards.  By 1984-85 he was one of the worst goalies in the entire NHL statistically, so nobody at the Coliseum was calling him King Richard anymore.  I know this because I was there at the time.

 

Yes, we know his stats for the 1981-82 season which we already discussed.  I already conceded he had a great year statistically in 1981-82.  There is no debate about that.  However, his stats for the rest of his career were below average at best.  Also, he wasn't the Stan Smyl of goalies.  Stan Smyl had an incredible career with the Canucks, not just one season.  Smyl had 20 goals or more for 8 years in a row.  He was our most consistent player during that horrible time in the 1980's.  He would hit, score, fight, he could do it all.  People went to the Coliseum to watch Smyl, Gradin and Fraser play.  And to watch Snepsts and chant "Harold" all game long.  Brodeur was only in that class for a short period of time.  Sure, he played alot of games which allowed him to accumulate all those stats that you mentioned.  That's because we had horrible goalies back in the day, probably the worst selection of goalies in Canucks history.  So, he was our guy during that time.  But just because someone played a whole bunch of games doesn't make him a selection for the ROH.  

 

This is the reason he is not in the ROH.  Because he wasn't at the level of Gradin or Smyl for an extended period of time.  If I am way off base on my assessment then please explain why Richard Brodeur isn't in the ROH.  Is it because the Canucks owner doesn't like him?  Francesco was also in the building when King Richard was around.  He lived just a few blocks away and was a season ticket holder when he was a teenager.  Why hasn't Aquilini put Brodeur into the ROH if he was at the level of Gradin and Snepsts?  

 

And yes, I can put at least 6-7 guys ahead of Broduer right now into the ROH.  Edler, Bieksa, Bertuzzi, Kesler, Ronning, Adams, Lumme, Babych, Boudrias, Kearns, Jovanovski, Lidster, Lever, Morrison, Tanti.  Heck, Gary Smith finished 6th in the Hart voting while he was a Canuck, and won the Vezina trophy before he arrived, so Brodeur isn't even the 3rd best goalie that the Canucks ever had.  Like I said, you put Brodeur into the ROH and then 6-7 guys from that list need to immediately follow.  

[Sativika]

On 8/20/2023 at 2:41 PM, allegend said:

There are a lot of things to consider: era played in, team success, influence, regular season performance, playoff success,

awards, longevity, 5-7 peak year performance, etc. The 7 listed goalies are almost certainly in the top ten NHL goalies of

all time. The age and personal bias of the voter will affect the rankings. Even an intelligent, long time player, coach,

and fan as myself cannot pick who is #!. 

 Agreed. I'm old. But too young at the time to witness anything before Dryden or T. Espo. And even during that era in the seventies, I was pretty much a young stoner who was into hanging' out with my crowd being, well....young! However, I went with the Dominator. That dude made me say, "Holy Sh*t!" a lot!

 

On 8/20/2023 at 9:27 PM, D-Money said:

This is how I feel too. For instance, put Marty Turco on those Devils teams instead of Brodeur, and I’m not sure they’re any worse for it.

 

 

Any number of goalies with SC championships can be mentioned. As above in Turco, previously mentioned Barasso, as well as Vernon, Belfour, Richter to name a few; Osgoode, Quick...hell! Even guys that haven't won a cup, Luongo, King Richard, I dunno....I can't think of anymore.

 

On 8/21/2023 at 6:32 PM, nopROBlemo said:

My answer would be Richard Brodeur. He took us Canuck  fans on a magical run.And I don't really care how good other goalies may have been if they aren't on my team.

 

Good answer, but he wasn't one of the choices. And there isn't a box to tick off for 'Other.' However, King Richard was the sh*t in that run for sure!

 

On 8/21/2023 at 7:53 PM, Citizen Erased said:

Jon Casey or Tom Barasso. Hard to choose.

Who did Jon Casey play for again?!?!?!??? Yep...I'm old alright.....

[vancan2233]

Brodeur's ability to play the puck was like no other. No one has come close to matching this. A huge part of NJ's defense was him being like a 3rd D man. He saved his defense from so many big hits, every game. His passing was just as high end as any of his defensemen. 

[Sylas]

It’s Hasek.