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snizzle_
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Posts posted by snizzle_
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16 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:
Jake is taking his training way more seriously then last off season. Plus him and Green are on the same page. I think he will start winning some people over next season.
10 second Instagram stories don't prove anything. If he doesn't come out in the pre-season hitting and shooting everything in sight, then Utica is where he'll be for the foreseeable future.
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39 minutes ago, J.R. said:
One, most of these guys are/were long shots. It's hardly worth losing sleep over.
Two, we still own Jasek's rights and it's very likely he would have been ECHL bound if he'd come to N.A. Staying in Europe is a good option for him for now and he can still come to Utica in the next couple years as he develops.
Don't you think Utica would be in better shape with these younger prospects instead of AHL scrubs and college leftovers. Benning's 2014 Draft, and now 2015 class (aside from Boeser and Brisebois) won't produce any new prospects to see in the minors next year. Kind of disappointing so far.
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He needs to add 20 pounds to even compete for an NHL spot, and if he does that this summer who knows if his body has adjusted to the added weight. Given that, he should be in London next year. Like you guys said above, he really needs to to add on some mass this summer because he's going into his D + 2 season and should atleast look at a man in that league.
Also, as some of you have pointed out, most of his points come from the powerplay and so I hope he's better 5v5 next year in creating off the rush. I get that we should not try to make him out to be a player that he's not, but one of the key features of a top pairing defenceman is the ability to transition the puck with a pass or skating. Even a player with limited offensive ability like Tanev can transition the puck and carry it up ice. Olli doesn't stickhandle particularly well, and I guess carrying the puck up ice isn't his strong suit but an area to work on.
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17 minutes ago, Get real canuck fans said:
Probably the same place as Gaunce, Shinkauk, Cassels, Mallet,Jensen all of whom were pretty high picks who seemed to be destined to be solid NHLes who have not been able to translate into much nhl success at alI I really dont get this Green is such a great developer of our young players, Horvat, Hutton, Tryamkin, Boeser, Stecher played almost none at Utica. Green had Virtanen for a full year and while i do think he has improved he should be to the point where he should be ready to contribute to the canucks and that seems like a lofty expectation any time soon for Jake.
Who has played a significant amount of time in utica and became a solid player for us? Gaunce and his 1 goal and 5 assists in 77 games?
I think it's a little unfair to put all the responsibility for the inability of those players to translate on Green. While the optics don't look great you have to consider Utica's talent level and how that is correlated with the Canuck's success and injuries the last 2 seasons. The last two years we've finished 29th and 28th place and have had extensive man games lost to injury and that directly affects the Comets as we draw their most responsible, highest scoring veterans to plug into the Canucks lineup. When the Comets had O'Reilly, Markstrom, Sanguinetti and co. 2 years ago, we saw some pretty good insulation for Shinkaruk and Gaunce but at that point, we had no real prospects in the system as Shinkaruk and Gaunce were in their rookie seasons.
But I do agree with you that his track record hasn't been solid and that there are signs that he isn't a great "development" coach, in the sense that I've watched a lot of Comets games and he relies very heavily on his Veterans, often not trusting the young players to make the mistakes they need to make to have offensive confidence to be creative and score. Doesn't that kind of remind you of a certain ex-Canucks coach?
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I watched most of the game and Jake and Goldobin were not regular linemates. I'm pretty sure Jake got out there early because Grenier went on a change. Virtanen as been playing mostly with Cassels and Labate
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1 hour ago, J.R. said:
Would you look at that, with a little patience, our little Jake at the geriatric age of 20 is starting to grow up, mature and develop...just like some of said was likely to happen.
And as that occurs, it has and will likely to continue to, show up in games and on the score sheet.
Funny that.
His play of late is more encouraging, but still far from anything substantial. If Utica makes a playoff run, I hope he makes strides there. He's been streaky all year, remember when he scored in three straight games in November, so it's too early to say he's turned it around.
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I think what's very underrated about his game is his ability to create space and put himself in better position or others. People keep saying that his skating is his weakpoint, and while he can't breakaway from a player, he creates separation with power and edgework. Countless highlights of his ability to stop up and change direction quick. Love to see players try and create space for themselves.
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I wouldn't mind seeing Juolevi in Utica if it permits this year. That team needs a boost on the backend.
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On 3/21/2017 at 3:57 AM, BoDangles53 said:
fair enough but that's also a part of learning - in the NHL his defensive advanced stats were excellent so his cautious focused defensive play is clearly there if he 'wants' to focus on it. issue is with more ice time and trying to learn alot he's clearly cheating at times etc
This is why he's in the AHL to put it all together. Its quite common for offensive players to lose some offense when trying to learn to play defense properly, and counter, when they start playing their 'game' lose some of the defensive focus
Why he's in the AHL is to learn to put those 2 things together before he makes it to the NHL. So while you may suggest he can't play defense very well I disagree because both the quantitative and eye test at the NHL level showed it, issue for him is to move beyond a sole defensive focus and cautious play and to be able to bring ALL of his tools at once. I know this issue first hand, as I played at a very competitive level (US College Tier 1 school) and was an offensive player coming in. When I was shifted down from 1c to 2c my game had to change from cheating and pure offense to more of 200ft game.I will tell you this, defensive hockey is not hard to 'learn' it really is 98% effort (as it is in most sports). And when I had games where I knew I had to play a tougher Dgame my offense suffered. When I was able to free wheel and cheat my offense thrived. That being said, separately, I was damn good at both, but putting it all together, shift after shift was not only physically very hard (so that could be affecting him) but also mentally, to stay focused, patient, and tough on the puck in both ends, especially when you were tiring. I think your views are overly simplistic to be honest. Its actually why I respect and love watching players like Toews, Kelser, Burrows, Hansen - what they do is outwork everyone on the ice and probably off the ice as fitness is a big part of playing 200ft. We know that was an issue for Jake but is improving. Fly bys are common when out of shape - stops and starts are the hard work of hockey, when you stop and start it tires you, all he's doing is cheating defensively because of his fitness in my view, not because he can't play defense well. That will be corrected in time
You see an inabilty to put the two things together at once as not having one of those skills, I have seen the skill, the stats prove it, so I see an issue of being mentally prepared, engaged shift to shift and focused enough and likely fit enough to play a 200 ft game. That's where the name 200ft game actually comes from
14We all know he has the tools/skills it takes to be an effective NHL'er. The sheer power and speed he can play with are unprecedented to this organization, that has never been my issue. You're right that his issue is being mentally prepared, engaged shift to shift and the focus to be trusted in all situations on the ice; I have echoed these statements in the past. But that's where my worries lie, if he'll ever be mentally engaged enough. Tat's the biggest unknown because some players just get it and some don't.
I'm glad you're someone who played the game at a high level, and while I never played as high as you, I played 3 years of Junior while being a full time University student. But that also means that you've seen many players that you played with or against that either had the propensity to put the mental game together, or did not. It's not truly binary, but the mental makeup of a player is a pretty crucial indicator of NHL success and definitely a differentiator in being an impact player. The area that separates players like Ghallager, Stetcher, Toews, Horvat, etc. is "between the ears", as coaches would say. Not to say it can't be taught or improved, but it's been Jake's knock for a long time.
Again, I'm cheering for him, but I'm also fully aware of his downfalls and the risk it poses to his NHL success. He is "learning" in the AHL right now, I get that, but he was sent down at the beginning of the season to "practice" and "gain confidence" because we want him to be an offensive player. Regaining your offensive touch and learning the defensive intricacies of the game are not mutually exclusive. He should be able to work on his offense all while learning the pro game (albeit he should have learned a lot last year), yet we've all seen his production.
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8 hours ago, BoDangles53 said:
Why are you putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting my comments?
I said the following
I simply said "any winger" playing on their offwing is more defensively challenged and therefore unless you're a game breaker like Pavel Bure, coaches won't turn a blind eye to that - I didn't say Jake was bad defensively at all, in fact I said the contrary and that his advanced stats proved it. Simply, his issue was fitness and taking short shifts to offset that.
Try reading people's posts and don't make up comments that suggest you have support.
I apologize for making it sound like I was assuming you agreed with what I said. I just wanted to use your point as a connection to what mine was. Did not mean to associate you with my views.
I'm a big fan of analytics, believe me, but you need to pass both the quantitative tests and qualitative tests. I've watched probably a dozen comets games since Jan, and he's not a defensively minded player. He constantly glides and does fly byes when he contests the point. He gets puck watching fair too often and sometimes he doesn't open up well enough to be an option on a breakout. He's very very good at rushing the puck out once he's collected a few strides and takes a look up ice because of his separation speed. But he doesn't have great instincts to read plays. I think that's my favourite way to describe him, is that his instincts aren't great.
Let me be clear, I've had my differences with Jake over the past couple years, but that doesn't mean I'm not cheering for the kid. I want nothing more for him to be up with us in the Vancouver lineup next year and for him to make an impact. Just going to give my honest opinion and if you disagree with me then debate, don't hate.
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22 minutes ago, stawns said:
I don't get the defensive liability argument. His play in the defensive zone has never been bad, he's a takeaway machine and now he's getting pk time in Utica. Consistency and confidence, as you said, are the areas he has to work on, and he's definitely showing much improvement there.
Further to your point, his goal today shows why he should be playing lw.
He's a defensive liability in the terms that BoDangles mentioned above. He isn't a very smart player, he doesn't have the vision or skill needed to play offwing in the defensive zone. Could you imagine Jake getting a breakout pass on his backhand with full forecheck pressure? Best case scenario is that he'd go glass and out.
But, as I said above, I think you have to live with that. With with the fact that his zone exits may not be very effective, but the off-chance that he gets a headstart breakout pass where he can take 2-3 strides untouched and he would be lethal off that left-wing because he could blow by or bull through players.
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1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:
I think we forget that Virt had some good moments in the NHL last year... that stretch after the WJC he was one of our best players over an extended period.
Kid may have had a rough year overall but he's still got a ton of potential.
I don't think anyone forgot the strides he took last year - everyone was actually using that as evidence as to why he was going to be a good player to start the season. He was training in Vancouver with the Sedins all summer, saying the right things, right up in till opening night when he fell on his face.
I 100% agree with him playing on his offside, he's such a unique player, that you need to live and die with the good and bad with Jake. He is always going to be a "liability" defensively, and so I get why you wouldn't want him playing his offwing for breakout purposes. However, he would be a much more confident player if he plays on his offwing because he can gain separation and lower his shoulder, get around players on the LW and, therefore, create off the rush. Other than Horvat, we do not have a threat of a player carrying the puck through the neutral zone to create.
The kid needs some consistency, and one way to find consistency is confidence! FREE HIM
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14 hours ago, HomeBrew said:
4 points in his last 7 games. Trending upwards at least in terms of production. I hope he can start to put together a multi-point game - something he has yet to do this season - going into the playoffs.
He's always been such a streaky player dating all the way back to his Junior days, and hopefully he finishes strong this season.
Although, he has only had 2, let me repeat that, TWO, multi-point games (vs SJS, vs FLA) in the last 2 years. He has yet to have a multi-point game in the AHL this year. Really puts into perspective his struggles in the last 2 years it seems.
I'm really hoping for the best and its looking like it's going to be a long road before Jake becomes an impact player. He needs to show up to camp next year and light the world on fire and play with a Hansen mentality, or he's going to start back in Utica next season. I really think he has a good shot to start the season in Van because Jim loves him so much, but he needs to do his job this summer and really work on his fitness, making quicker decisions and boardplay.
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3 hours ago, Derp... said:
This is not a perfect system by any means, but it shows that we should have been expecting him to produce at around .41 points per game in the NHL or around 34 points per season, based on his draft year stats. I wasn't as savvy on the whole prospect development thing in 2014 and was definitely thinking he could be more like a Jeff Carter if we were lucky. His closest comparable in this system is Michael Grabner though. I would take a Grabner that hits, and plays well defensively in his prime. Grabner, although inconsistent, has had 5 separate 20 goal pace seasons in the NHL. He's also had 2, 30+ goal seasons after this year is done. Most people would be happy with Jake having 5 20 goal seasons between now and his 29th birthday, if he's playing that heavy forechecking speed game.
Niederreiter has also had 3 20 goal seasons now before his 25th birthday. Another similar player in terms of their draft year, and a valuable player on a deep Wild team now.
He was far and away a better prospect back in 2014 than he is currently in 2017, so having a Michael grabner esque ceiling seems good now. He's not tracking nearly as well currently.
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4 hours ago, Derp... said:
Agreed. He's always realistically projected as a 30-40 point middle 6 forward. We always hope prospects can go above and beyond, but it's the exception not the rule. Still on pace to get there in my opinion. Could be more, but will need to take a big step next year if that's going to happen
I don't think if we checked this thread back in the summer of 2014 that people would be happy with a 30-40 point middle 6 forward, he was deemed the poster child of the new brand of hockey culture we were about to cultivate. It's only been the last 6 months or so, since Ray pointed out he's kind of like Hansen, that people started to adjust their expectations.
I think you're right in that this year probably couldn't have gone any worse for the kid, and that next year is really a tell all for him - in terms of being a legitimate prospect. Because if you're not showing signs of dominating the AHL in your 2nd full pro season (Counting this one as his first and last year as a wash), then there are red flags that need to be seriously considered.
I don't think I've ever had a more bipolar feeling for a prospect than Jake. I've always hoped for the best because he was such an interesting prospect in 2014, but ever since the 2015 WJC, he just hasn't looked like the same player that warranted his selection spot.
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Feel like this post is long overdue, just didn't really have time to get around to posting it.
I was able to see Juolevi play in Kingston a couple weeks back with a few friends and a pro scout. I'm sure many of you know I've been skeptical of Juolevi in the sense that I don't think he'll likely reach his top 2 potential.
He was very good that game, as some of the highlights showed, against a pretty weak Kingston team albeit. He was assertive, not aggressive unless he had to, and played really well with Van De Sompel. He should of had 4-5 points but he hit a crossbar and post I think. I still think he can work on his first few strides as it will make his transition game a lot more smooth and effective at the NHL level. We had really good seats, and for a guy who's 6' 3", he was VERY slender. To the point that you could mistake him as a first year OHL player.
I think he should be in London next year, echoing the sentiments above, so he can work on his strength, shot and mobility. I really like him playing with Van De Sompel because he is active on the blueline and gets Juloevi skating more, I notice sometimes he wants to beat you with the pass so often that he won't move his feet on the blueline and gets caught in a hit or pass deflection. That time and space is going to close quickly at the NHL level, so if he starts to move on the blueline better, he's gonna be that much more versatile and dynamic.
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He just needs to find a comfort zone; he's spinning his wheels and isn't finding any solid traction or consistency, whether that's different linemates or not having a good mentor down there.
One of my biggest concern is his play away from the puck, not his positioning but his awareness. When he has the puck, his posture, engagement, and intensity are visible, but as soon as he isn't near the play or a direct influence, his knees straighten, he glides and doesn't get involved. It's insane to think that's what he has become after the 2015 WJC where he played like his head was on fire. The Ray Ferraro "Jannik Hansen" comparison I think is exactly what he needs to find; that intensity with and without the puck. If he's always moving, with that frame, skill, and speed, he would be a force. Is his shoulder bothering him mentally because he used to look for hits. Even look back to the 2015 AHL Playoffs against OKC Barons, he was flying.
Problem is, I'm scared he'll never put 2 and 2 together.
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1 minute ago, Warhippy said:
Get the f**k over it
No it won't. Why? Because Demko Tryamkin Stewart and Pettit will save that draft.
Ironically while everyone is whining about Virtanen those other 4 picks have all the showings of solid nhl players
Might be time to just get the hell over it and ease off Virtanen because the other 4 look pretty damned good in comparator their draft positions
Or...sit and whine about Virtanen for the next 2 decades like this fan base always does
Wow there, calm down. Stewart is barely an ECHL player and we didn't even sign Pettit.
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I watched the Utica game tonight against the Marlies, and because of the praise Green gave Virtanen after the Penguins game last week, I thought I was going to see a different Jake all together. To my disappointment I saw the same things that plagued him in Vancouver to star the season. While it was just one game, I just wanted to see some type of salvation that would in still some confidence in me that he'll find his way.
He still looks lost.Now, a lot of it isn't his fault. The Canucks have been trying to make the playoffs all year, and in doing so, they've stripped Utica of many players who should be the Veteran drivers of that Comets team. Guys like Megna, Chaput and Skille should be in the minors insulating our picks, but they're up here while the Comets are one of the lowest scoring teams in the AHL.
However, Virtanen is not off the hook, because he doesn't look to be doing his part (at least not tonight). He took those quick shifts where he would change on the backcheck and still looks a little disengaged. The biggest issue I had with him tonight was his boardplay, something that management has been trying to work with him for awhile. He loses way too any puck battles for his size and speed, it's very frustrating to watch. He's now on the first PP unit, sometimes hovering around that left side one-timer spot, but he's never in position or reading the play well enough to get open... He's on the powerplay and he can't get open...
I'll be watching more Utica games in the future, so hopefully this one is just a one-off, but considering his very poor production in the minors, it could be exactly where he is.
For those who want to watch games as well, I found a really good link to watch most games: http://onhockey.tv/
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I'd be cool to see Virtanen play on the same line as Gauncer. A like with Valk in the Middle with Gaunce and Virtanen flanking his wings could be a pretty dynamic line. Also, Utica needs to spread out their scoring with Grenier and Archibald carrying the entire load.
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On 1/28/2017 at 8:07 PM, khay said:
Nice post. Put into words what I had in mind but couldn't.
I think his ability to read the situations to see what options are available and his ability to choose the best option among the available options is at an elite level.
To see why this is important, compare this to a player, who has tunnel vision and is unable to assess all available options in a short amount of time or a player who can see all the available options but does not always make the optimal decision.
Us fans in the stands or watching on TV can see all available options because we have the bird's eye view. The players cannot see all the options so when we see a player miss an opportunity to break out on what looks like an obvious passing option, we criticize them, not realizing that the best option was not visible to the player in question. With OJ, I think there will be far less criticism in this regards compared to other players but as you said, if he does not learn to transition faster so that the options that he sees don't disappear, he won't amount to anything better than a top 4.
However, if he is able to do it, then he will be an elite level defenceman. That's how I feel about OJ.
On 1/28/2017 at 9:21 PM, Horvat is a Boss said:I think he definitely has the IQ and smarts to be able to do that. If you guys are referring specifically to today's game, it looked like any ability to do that was prevented by either his forwards not giving him options or Owen Sound simply relentlessly attacking the puck. In comparison, the Attack's defenseman would strip the London forward at the blue line, make a D to D pass and then quickly get it up to the forwards.
But you guys are right. If he can learn to do that consistently and effectively, it will pretty much solidify his position as a #2. He's still young enough to learn that too.
One more thing to add about his transition and control, is that he doesn't have exceptional escapability. Sometimes escapability is misinterpreted as dynamic skill, and I have to disagree with that association. Dynamic skill would be to generate offence seemingly out of nothing, but what I haven't seen much from OJ is his ability to skill his way out of danger without passing. He passes so well out of danger it's scary, but he lacks the escapability a natural top D pairing has, whether that's speed, quickness or craftiness. There have actually been numerous occasions where I've seen him get absolutely rocked (take a hit to make a play is usually reserved for forwards). It could be that I've only seen him play a dozen times or so, but I don't think we can say "oh he's just not a dynamic player" because that's what separates top pairing Dmen is that they can beat you in all different kinds of ways. And it seems as though OJ can only pass his way out of trouble.
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There's one thing in Olli's game that, if he improves, he'll be a homerun player.
To me, if he finds a way to gain control of the puck in transition, for receiving or retrieving a puck, he'll be a dominant player. What I mean by this is that when Olli has time and space to make a play he makes unbelievably smart and better plays; the strengths we know and love. However, he does seem slower in transition in comparison to other top end defensive prospects in the flow of the game. For example, I notice time and time again when he receives a pass from D to D or is trying to transition the puck forward, he doesn't have great control of the puck to make a play. Once he gets two or three strides with the puck and it's in his wheelhouse, then he can make plays. However, the on and off his stick transition could be faster and where I see the biggest impact in his game. If he can tighten up that aspect of his game while processing the game at the level he does now, he can break defences open in transition.
He also needs to put on some weight and work on his shot - seems like he shoots muffins.
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Glad to see to play yesterday and contributed after what looked like a violent hit at the end of the game in Saginaw.
https://youtu.be/4OIHL9nKu0M?t=828
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1 hour ago, meh_wassup said:
Gaudette is more of a 2way player, but he is also a good prospect. Yes they're long shots (especially Zhukenov) but they're not worlds apart, strictly speaking skill-wise, from Ehlers and Nylander. Yes Ehlers and Nylander are more skilled players, but if they're not scoring they're not doing much.
All I'm saying is that I like the young players we have in the system, and there's no rhyme or reason to rushing them, or giving up on them as of yet. Virtanen is only 20 years old, he's still got a lot of time and room to grow. We won't start seeing what we have in him for another 3-4 years. For now, preach patience.
I actually disagree a lot. I don't see why people hold Zhukenov to such a high standard. The guy can barely score at a PPG-pace in the Q in his Draft + 2 season. For a guy that you guys say "has to score to be effective", he's not doing it at the Junior level, what's makes you think he'll translate to even the AHL.
Sure hindsight is 20/20, but it was consensus that Nylander and Ehlers were ranked above Virtanen and I agree with the former posters that you draft based on skill in the top end of the draft. To say that Gaudette and Zhukenov are in the same league as Ehlers and Nylander is flat out insulting with no merit.
NHL Draft Preview: Chris MacDonald (Canucks Amateur Scout) Interview!
in Canucks Talk
Posted
Hey Everyone,
It's been awhile since I've posted but thought I'd share with the community.
I got the chance to talk to Chris MacDonald, who's been an Amateur Scout for the Canucks for the last 6 years, and was willing to let us record him for the Podcast I started with some friends. Would love feedback, maybe have him on after the draft to get him to break down the picks. Would love to field questions from the community. It's an interesting time for this organization, and wanted to bring the analyst, media, fan perspective and thought we got some cool answers/stories from Chris. I think everyone will enjoy the Petey story. We'll be cutting the video to do 1 per question because we realized how long it the original plays.
Cheers Everyone