Ruthervin
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Posts posted by Ruthervin
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2 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:
Horvat, Kuzmenko, Boeser, Miller, Garland, Pearson should all be traded.
I’d be onboard for this but my only concern is that Petey will not want to be here in two years when he becomes an RFA. He has clearly stated in the past that his goal is win a cup whether that’s here or elsewhere and that he’d reassess the situation when his contract expires.
That’s one of the biggest reasons why I’m hesitant about this idea of blowing things up and building around Petey. Awesome in theory obviously but I’m not sure if it’s realistic.
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1 hour ago, Mackcanuck said:
Retaining 50% on everything is terrific short term but awful long term. You’d basically just be pushing cap problems forward once those new picks/prospects we bring in need to be re-upped/extended.
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34 minutes ago, OldFaithfulCap said:
You didn't learn from your trade pettey thread?
Boeser for a d-man would be fine, someone on the minnesota world suggested dumba for him. I'd take it.
Miller i'd move to columbus for a 1st and a young dman (they have a lot and some coming in).
Boeser for Dumba might work, although Dumba is a bit of a tire fire in his own end. Is Dumba a top pairing guy? Would Hughes-Dumba or OEL-Dumba be considered an elite top pairing? (Which is what the Canucks are in dire need of). I don’t think so. Dumba still wouldn’t address our biggest problem (ie an elite two way defenseman that could help elevate Hughes and become an elite top pairing).
As far as Miller goes, YOU might make that trade to CBJ, but I can’t see Columbus making that deal (unless they have more than one 1st rounder?). Why would CBj trade their first when they have a good enough chance of landing Bedard? Will happily eat crow if I’m wrong however. Even if they have multiple firsts, I can’t see them using one of those firsts on Miller given the way Miller has performed on even strength this year.
My gut says that people are overrating as to what we could get in return for Horvat and Miller.
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Just now, mll said:
NJD doesn't need Pettersson though. They already have Hischier and Hughes as their C1/C2 combo. Fitzgerald calls them their pillars to build around.
Agreed. I was just giving an example of what Nemac's asking price/trade value truly would be. Horvat wouldn't even come close to Nemac's value (even if NJD needed a center).
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On 1/2/2023 at 7:50 PM, HKSR said:
I think we can all see why Nemec is untouchable. A top pairing RHD like that will never be moved unless it was a monumental trade offer (ie. Petey+Hughes+1st lol)
It wouldn't be *that* high but the asking price for Nemac would probably involve Pettersson.
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5 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:
It seems a consensus among the media and fans the team will need to trade one or more of its higher priced forwards to allow CAP space.
There is also consensus the forward traded should be for defensive assets.
Right now the talk is about Bo Horvat... because his price would put the Canucks over CAP.
But if other forwards were traded, room could be made for Bo.
The Question in this Poll... who do the fans want to keep and who do they want to trade?
Elias Pettersson:
I'm in the minority here, but my clear answer is Elias Pettersson..............and here is why:
1) There's no guarantee that Pettersson will want to re-sign here once he becomes an RFA. A couple seasons ago, Pettersson clearly said that he'll re-assess things once he becomes an RFA and that his goal is to be a part of a winner whether that's here or elsewhere.
2) Pettersson will get a HUGE raise (10 million+) meaning that our long term internal cap could get bloated (i.e. as an illustration, compare Toronto's top heavy cap to Boston's cap hits to its top players for the better part of a decade).
3) Pettersson is the only asset on the Canucks that will land you multiple young elite players from other teams. Thinking Columbus? You could get guys like Kent Johnson, David Jiriceck, etc., in a package. NYR interests you? Welcome Lafrennierre, Schneider, etc. I know many Canucks fans, media members, etc., believe that Horvat and/or Miller could land you these young elite 19-23 year olds but they can't unfortunately (if they could have, a trade would have happened already).
4) Trading Pettersson would immediately sink the Canucks at or near to the bottom of the standings a la Michael Jackson style.............which would greatly increase our odds of landing a guy like Bedard or Fantilini in the draft.
So, ultimate result of moving Pettersson.
1) We land a 2023 lottery pick.
2) We land multiple elite young players, one of which would hopefully be an elite right sided defenseman (i.e. Schneider, Jiriceck, etc.).
3) We keep our long term internal cap intact since Miller (and possibly Horvat) would be our highest paid players at $8 million dollars.
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7 minutes ago, Petterson649 said:
Hughes is the most overrated player on this Canucks team. I would rather have a number 1 defenseman who can put up 40 points and plays exception defense than our boy Hughes who puts up 80 points but is complete shit at defending and weak af on the boards
I pretty much agree with you here. To me, Hughes is the type of guy that can make a good top pairing (and team for that matter) great, but he doesnt have the ability to make a mediocre pairing good.
Hughes isn’t a true top pairing dman in my opinion. Hughes needs that true elite top pairing anchor/rock that can help minimize Hughes’ shortcomings while also helping him maximize his offensive prowess.
I think a guy like Dobson has potential to become like that……and perhaps same for guys like Jiriceck and Nemac. But again - the problem with fantasizing about those guys, is that Horvat and Miller aren’t going to get you those guys. The only guy capable of landing you those pieces is Elias Pettersson…….and one reason why I don’t feel 100% guilty about talking about moving Petey, is because I’m not entirely sold on the fact that Petey will want to stay here once he becomes an RFA.
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On 12/26/2022 at 1:17 PM, J-23 said:
Best player on team, best 5on5, best PK’er, best PP guy, best playmaker, best goal scorer if he wanted to be.
This is Pettersson’s breakout year like Mack. If next year he produces consistently, I don’t think we’ve ever seen a player like this on the Canucks who just dominates in every aspect for the team.
You’re 100% correct but think about this:
1) A guy like that - what could he fetch us in terms of grade A elite young players who are in that 20-23 range? For example, if we’re talking Columbus, wouldn’t we be able to get both Kent Johnson and David Jiricek?
2) As awful as the Canucks have been, we’ve seen how even worse they’ve been without Petey in the line-up……meaning, that the Canucks could realistically fall at or close to the bottom of the league without Pettersson which would ultimately mean that we could possibly draft Bedard, Fantilini, etc.
So with a Pettersson deal, not only would land some ELITE young players in that 20-23 range (something that Horvat won’t get you), but the loss of Petey would likely drop us at or near the bottom of the standings which would greatly increase our chances of landing a Bedard, Fantilini, etc.
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17 hours ago, flat land fish said:
To Philly:
Miller
OEL
To Vancouver:
Provorov
Couturier
Multiple players needing a change of scenery get it in an old fashioned blockbuster. Some minor additions or draft picks can get tagged on to balance the trade depending on your view point. Assuming Couturier is good to go moving forward solves Canucks defensive 2c problems and frees up additional move involving Horvat. Philly gets two sure things with more term committed.
A Miller and OEL package would only pique the interest of Florida if it involved Bobrovsky.
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18 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:
Trade 1
To COL:
Horvat (50% retained)
To VAN:
1st 2023, Alex Newhook
Trade 2
To NYR:
JT Miller (current contract retained 50%), Nils Hoglander, Jack Rathbone
To VAN:
Alexis Lafreniere and Filip Chytil
Trade 3
To MTL:
Brock Boeser
To VAN:
Sean Monahan
Trade 4To TOR:
Luke Schenn
To VAN:
2nd 2023
Trade 5
To LA:
Joni Jurmo and 2nd 2023 (from Schenn trade)
To VAN:
Helge Grans
Tried to look at trades that fill both teams needs. Horvat is the perfect fit in Colorado. They need a 2C and it gives him a chance to win while we get a solid return back. NYR really like JT Miller. He's having a bit of a tough year this year but still has 30 points in 36 games and has performed at a top line level the last three years. MTL likes Boeser from reports it seems, would be a nice swap to take on Monahan who is having a good bounce back year. Schenn goes to a familiar organization for the playoff run, comes back in the offseason. With the LA trade, we get a RD that seems like he should be able to make the jump to the NHL within the next year or two I would assume.
We use the extra cap space to acquire another top 4 RD in the offseason via trade/free agency. The lineup isn't great, and it's not supposed to be, but it gets us in the direction of building towards something better. Hopefully we are able to draft either a top C or RD in the next entry draft.
Lineup after the trade deadline:
Mikheyev - Pettersson - Kuzmenko
Lafreniere - Chytil - Garland
Newhook - Monahan - Podkolzin
Joshua - Aman - Lazar
Hughes - Bear
Dermott - Burroughs
OEL - Myers
Demko
Martin
These are great and well thought out ideas but it still doesn’t address our biggest need - a young top pairing two way elite RD (or someone that atleast has that realistic potential) to help elevate Hughes to the top pairing, and form a legit top tier top pairing.
Without this, we will always struggle.
So with respect to your above line-up in both the short term and long term, wouls
we actually be better or just different?
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23 hours ago, Alflives said:
Yup. Would need to change that first into a ca dumperoo. So Goodrow?
Bo + Schenn for Schneider + Lafrenierre + Goudreau?
I’m wondering if Horvat, Kuzmenko, and Schenn gets you all of Lafrennierre, Kakko, and Schneider. It probably wouldn’t but I think the Rags would strongly consider it since Kuz is on a cheap deal for this year.
Ideally though, I’d love for the Canucks to build around Pettersson and Kuzmenko.
Alternatively, I’d do something around Miller for Lafrenniere straight up one for one (we’d probably have to take a bit of salary back) and then re-sign Horvat.
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On 1/1/2023 at 8:22 AM, Elias Pettersson said:
Bo Horvat and Luke Schenn for Alexis Lafreniere, Braden Schneider and a 2023 1st round pick...
That would be a great deal for the Canucks. I can’t see the Rangers agreeing to that but if they did, I’d take that deal and run.
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Try the following line combinations:
Kuzmenko-Horvat-Pettersson
Mikheyev-Miller-Boeser
Garland-Studnicka-Lazar
Joshua-Dries-Pederson
Stack your top line with your three best players and make them a modern day WCE. Make your bottom 6 total energy
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1 hour ago, Phil_314 said:
0.9 points/ game is pretty good, and (given that the original premise is that they'd want Horvat) what Miller brings as versatile forward who can play any forward spot just might be what they'd look for. Their top 2 lines' tandems are Kreider - Zibanejad and Panarin - Trocheck, while the 3rd forwards (Kakko/ Kravtsov) have underwhelmed. If Miller plays on the 1st line he can keep up skating-wise and be either the setup man or triggerman. With Panarin he'd have a setup man who can make passes right into his wheelhouse, while Trocheck can cover for his defensive deficiencies. In turn, Miller could probably be the forechecker for his linemates due to his size, speed and tenacity. If needed we could retain a million per year and move him while adding needed pieces in the lineup.
Tue about 0.9 points but his even strength production has been a cause for concern this season. Ditto for his defensive gaffes.
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2 minutes ago, Alflives said:
Well the owner insists on the latter, so it’s all in during the next two seasons.
Agreed……which is why the Horvat thing is so perplexing to me. So maddening to me that they basically chose Boeser over Horvat. I really hope we keep BoHo but it’s not looking good
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3 minutes ago, Alflives said:
If we will actually rebuild then for sure we need to take chances on guys like Lafrenierre.
My take on the Canucks is that they should lean hard one way or the other. No middle ground stuff. Either commit to a full rebuild (trade everyone but Petey and Kuz), or do a blitzkreig and commit 100% to this core (ie sign Horvat + use sweeteners to move Myers and Pearson in the off season + go hard after Dumba or Severson in UFA + move one or both of Boeser and Garland for cap space).
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15 minutes ago, Alflives said:
The Rageroos would insist we take that bustaroo Lafrenierre. Just say no.
Lafreniere is an interesting case to me. Yes he’s struggled in NYR but I’d like to find out the reasons for this. Does he have a bad attitude? Bad work ethic? (Similar to Yakupov). Or, did AL simply lose confidence under a tough coach and tough NYR market. Maybe he just needs a fresh start?
The way this guy dominated juniors was extremely impressive. I just have a difficult time comprehending as to how and why this guy fell off so much.
If the Canucks are destined to sell off most of the team, then why not build around Pettersson, Kuzmenko, Lafreniere…….and Bedard if we sink far enough (doubtful but I’m just spitballing). Could you imagine if we landed Bedard AND Lafreniere started to live up to potential?
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1 minute ago, Phil_314 said:
Miller for Schneider+ Chytil please
Right now, it’s unlikely that NYR would give up even one of those pieces for Miller.
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3 hours ago, RetroCanuck said:
Don’t agree at all. Horvat is only 27, scored 30 goals last year and on pace for 60 this year (will more likely be in the high 40 low 50 range).
Someone is going to really need to give up some very good assets to get him. I’m disappointed we didn’t trade Miller so that we have the room for all our guys but management made a different call then I’d have liked.
Horvat is easily worth a young prospect like Schneider and more on top of that. Especially since he has more quality years ahead of him compared to Kane
Fair enough and you make good points. My line of thinking however is that the Canucks already tried that with Miller this past Summer (coming off 99 points) and no one was willing to give us that young coveted RD. Now granted, BoHo is two years young, is a more natural center than Miller, and is probably regarded as having better intangibles, but I think the deal would have already have happened (with Bo) of teams were willing to give us a Braden Schneider or Noah Dobson type guy.
Will happily eat my grandma’s shit if I’m wrong however and you’re more than welcome to call me out on this if Horvat lands us someone like Schneider.
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3 hours ago, RetroCanuck said:
NYR
Horvat
VAN
Schneider
Kakko
NYR won’t be able to afford 3 RD costing more then 20M of cap so Schneider will likely needed to be traded at some point.
Kakko is floundering and in need of a change of scenery, would prefer Lafreniere but with Schneider added doubt it happens. Kakko also carries just over 2M of cap allowing the trade to work cap wise
Would love to see Schneider here but I can’t see the Rags giving him up. For Patty Kane, sure, but I’m not sure if they do it for Horvat. Would love to be proven wrong though.
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22 hours ago, Alflives said:
Change the first to Schneider. Take out Chytil, and put in Kakko.
so the return is: Laugher, Krappo, Schnieder.
Rangers ain’t giving up Schneids. You could throw in Kirk McLean‘s ex wife and they’d still say no.
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On 12/28/2022 at 11:19 AM, -AJ- said:
Nah.
I'll admit it has grown on me far more than I expected, but they are just reverse retros. I'd rather have the Skate as a third than these.
What about the Skate with this color scheme?
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On 12/22/2022 at 11:46 AM, Alflives said:
Does Carolina need Bo? KK + could work.
KK is poo with corn in it. If you’re thinking Carolina, much better to target Seth Jarvis.
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On 12/21/2022 at 4:53 PM, JohnTavares said:
To COL:
Bo Horvat (50% Retained)
Kyle Burroughs
To VAN:
Sam Girard
Alex Newhook
Pretty self explanatory... Bo Horvat is the perfect #2C behind MacKinnon. Girard is a nice piece but he'll eventually need to be moved as Byram will has basically supplanted him. Newhook is a nice piece but the Avs are more likely interested in winning the cup versus trying to develop Newhook - he likely won't be a material/impact player for 3-4 years. This doesn't fit the Avs timeline. The package is quite large for a potential rental, but the Canucks retain half and add in Burroughs as an interim LD replacement if needed to offset.
Canucks, as reported, is not looking for prospects and wants to make a hockey deal. This is the perfect hockey deal for them. Newhook has potential to be a #2C behind Pettersson in the future, and Girard is likely the second best defenseman on the team after Hughes. Girard is only 24 - he still has a lot of years ahead of him on a decent, cost-controlled contract. This it the type of move that will help the Canucks accelerate their re-tool. Losing Horvat sucks but this team needs to take a few steps back in order to take steps forward.
Re: Contract Extension
I think this could work as a deal regardless if Bo has an extension in place. I think Sakic would be confident to get Bo on an extension with a discount. Bo clearly wants to win and Avs clearly have a a need for #2C - Horvat would be the perfect center to complement MacKinnon. The money saved from Girard (5) and Newhook (2/2.5?) next year is probably sufficient for Horvat's extension. 8 years for $7.5M per probably gets it done. And for people saying why would they give Horvat an extension when they wouldn't for Kadri, Horvat's extension kicks in when he's 28, whereas Kadri was 32 - that's a huge difference.Newhook would be a nice add but acquiring Girard doesn’t make sense to me since we already have Hughes (similar player) and OEL on that left side. Maybe Byram instead of Girard?
Who among the higher priced Canuck Forwards should the Team trade?
in Canucks Talk
Posted · Edited by Ruthervin
Boeser has negative value at this stage of his career and is basically Peter Pan at this point. Montreal really wants him for some odd reason and so maybe they’d be interested in Boeser for Monahan?
Maybe Boeser to Calgary for one year of former NHL-calibre hockey player Milan Lucic?