P.Joneson
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Posts posted by P.Joneson
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So a 3rd line center...another LHD prospect and a late 1st round pick will save us?
And keeping Kesler also makes us a better team??? That has sure worked out well for us this season.
I find it very hard to believe that was the only offer on the table. As I have said I really hope there is a better trade for us at the draft. But if we get to next years deadline after an even worst season then this years where we are definite sellers and trade Kesler for less then what we could have gotten today then there is going to be a lot of explaining to do.
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Nailed it. Post of the day goes to...
Yeah because keeping our "best" hockey player who is only getting older and his best years are clearly behind him is so great. Our team is currently only 2 games above 500 and on a downward spiral to the depths of the standings. They are on route for their worst season since 1998-99. We desperately need to get younger and we should trade Kesler as soon as possible to bring in multiple valuable assets.
A trade needs to be done at the draft now and most GM's will know this....
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And would we not get more value on draft day? Most teams this year are sitting at the cap ceiling, meaning in order to bring in a Kesler or Edler $5 million contract an equivalent contract will have to be sent back our way.
The teams interested in Kesler were cup contending teams. Right? Thus they are not going to trade back any of the impact players for Kesler in order to not create holes elsewhere on their team, so the only return we could get for Kes right now is picks and prospects, Picks which we don’t know where each team will finish this year likely in the 20-30 range.
It only makes sense that if we truly are looking to move Kesler that we wait until then. Cap is going up, teams have more space to bring him in. More teams will be in on the bid, and we will start to see where this team will be at looking forward. The asset return at a draft can change the outlook of a franchise, Trade deadline when teams are making impulse decisions. Not so much
Sure if we get better offers at the draft but there is no guarantee of that. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
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Think about it, how much value was being offered around today. Hemsky got a 3rd and 5th, Gaborik got around the same. The value was low today and only 2 teams were supposably in on the table and both up against the cap. Offcourse the offer was bad.
All this Kesler talk was spawn off some guy in montreal making this up. Kesler doesn't want off this team, he came out and said that but, no lets believe the no name from montreal.
It doesn't matter if Kesler or Edler don't want off this team it's we need to move some of our better assets to get some youth injected into the lineup. If some players haven't asked for a trade already then they should be. We are on pace right now to have our first losing season since 1998-1999. Back then Mark Messier was our captain, Garth Snow was our goalie, we traded Pavel Bure and Mike Keenan was our coach. Not the best of times and that's exactly where this team is heading.
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Absolutely shocking decision by ownership and management. Do they really think his value will be higher at the draft and that more teams will be interested? What are the chances Kesler waives his NTC to go to a team that is not contending this year. This team is sinking and we don't have the players in our system to right the ship right now. Some of our most valuable assets need to be moved and unfortunately this includes players of Ryan Kesler's calibre.
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Well they better if they want Kesler.
Other teams will offer just as much.
If you take out Etem or Silfverberg and add Fowler then that might work... But I don't think Anaheim has any intention of trading Cam Fowler
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Not a good enough offer to trade to a divisional rival.
Throw in Fowler and maybe.
I'm sure Anaheim will just "throw in" Fowler... haha.
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He should be played unless they are trading him tonight. You want to send the message to teams that he is still a Vancouver Canuck and we are ok with not trading him if you don't offer what we want. If you don't play him teams will know that we need to get rid of him, which could slightly drive down his price.
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I'm hoping with the acquisition of Matthias this puts an end to Pittsburgh's pathetic trade offers that include Sutter. We have no need for him anymore.
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See you later Luo! THANKS FOR CHOKING IN THE CUP FINALS, THANKS FOR BEING A WHINY LITTLE BRAT!
yeah i can't wait to see your reaction when kesler and the sedins are traded one day
if you thought luongo choked i can only imagine what your thought of the sedins cup final performance was
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wow, good for him. Can finally leave this organization that has shown him no respect since the cup finals.
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I hope That Gillis and Co. dont get overly distracted because there are so many trade posibilities surrounding the organization right now. These trades will dictate the future of this franchise. We need to get full value for any player being shipped out.
If Holmgren wants Kes, and Eddy he's gottta pay LARGE.
To Philly:
Kesler
Edler
To Van:
Shenn
Voracek
Laughton
2014 1st
2014 3rd
If Lu is gone we can trade him to Washington for Green straight up.
I don't think Philadelphia is going to part with Voracek or Simmonds, I really hope they do, but there is still a deal there to be made. Scott Laughton is a bit redundant but I wouldn't complain if he's involved.
It will probably look more like
Schenn, Read, Laughton/Hagg/Morin, 2015 1st Round Draft Pick (2014 draft is in Philadelphia and they probably want to keep it for now) & a 2014 2nd Round Draft Pick.
They may have to add 2 of the above prospects and then they would have to trade Meszaros away for a pick (probably another 2nd after they trade theirs away to us) to make it work cap wise.
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For those that want Schenn over Couturier because Schenn is more dynamic offensively, I disagree.
I don't care if our team will have a log jam of strong 2 -way forwards.
Say the future centre position depth chart is Horvat, Couturier, Gaunce, it means each of these guys can match up against any line and probably outscore them.
Think about how Bolland completely neutured the Sedins which is a 3rd line outscoring our 1st line.
Think about how Kesler (2nd line) bested the Toews line (1st line).
As long as each of those lines can outscore their opposing line in the match up game, it will result in a win.
I don't think people are saying they necessarily want Schenn over Couturier, but Philadelphia has made it pretty clear they don't want to part with him.
Trying to force the issue with Philadelphia for Couturier when they are offering Schenn isn't worth it. Brayden Schenn is an awesome player with a great future ahead of him. He is also third on his team in hits, behind Zac Rinaldo and his brother Luke. He has 40 more hits this season then Kesler so he does fit into Tortorella's system of dump and crash.
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With Columbus definitely out then Philadelphia is easily the best trade partner if they are willing to part with Brayden Schenn which seems like a possibility now. Pittsburgh can't match let alone beat any trade that Philadelphia offers that includes B. Schenn.
I have to agree with some of the posters that Philadelphia has probably offered something along the lines of
B. Schenn, L. Schenn, Laughton, Morin/Hagg & 2014 1st Round Draft Pick for Edler and Kesler
If that's the final offer that will definitely be the best offer we can get for Edler and Kesler. If we could somehow convince them to keep Laughton and L. Schenn and include Simmonds or Voracek that would be ideal for us. Or if they swapped out L. Schenn for Downie and a 2nd or 3rd Round Pick that could also work.
B. Schenn, Simmonds/Voracek, Morin/Hagg & 2014 1st Round Draft Pick for Edler & Kesler
or
B. Schenn, Downie, Laughton, Morin/Hagg, 2014 1st Round Draft Pick & 2014 2nd/3rd Round Draft Pick for Edler & Kesler
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Imagine an Iginla scenario, in which Boston gave Calgary the best offer, but he at the last second wanted to go to Pittsburgh.
NTC for both players here.
This is the worst possible outcome and I can't help but feel that Ray Shero is trying to convince Kesler to only waive to them by going to the media and saying they will beat any offer when in reality they don't have the pieces we need.
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We need to get a trade offer out in public that is better then what Pittsburgh is currently offering us because right now if I'm the Columbus GM and I know what Pittsburgh is currently offering I only have to offer Brandon Dubinsky, A Top Prospect (Alex Wennberg or Kerby Rychel) and a 1st Round Draft Pick and I've already done better the Pittsburgh.
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I also think what happens with any deal involving Edler has an affect on how much we need to get back for Kesler. If we can somehow get Schenn for Edler then Pittsburgh does become a decent trading partner. But right now Ryan Kesler is our 2nd line centre and if Brandon Sutter is the guy coming back to fill Kesler's role for now then we are in trouble. Brandon Sutter is not a 2nd line centre on any team in the NHL. But if we got Schenn from Phily for Edler then Sutter doesn't look too bad as our 3rd line centre. That said I hope Gillis tells Pittsburgh to screw off.
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If we could do that, it gives Jensen back the center he scored all his junior points with. A kesler replacement with beef to him AND another 1st this year.
And this year we would finally have the ability to actually do something we haven't in a while.
Draft high risk offensive players.
Virtanen and...Goldobin, Scherbak, Barbashev, Kapanen?
I would be sold with jenner Rychel/Murray and a 1st. Cause then we could also flip edler for more. Possibly LUongo for even more. Competing in 2 seasons
I don't see them giving up Ryan Murray. I would take Ryan Murray and Boone Jenner with no pick for Ryan Kesler.
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OK see now we are seeing eye to eye.
Think of it like this. If we can say squeeze B Schenn ++, Jenner ++ (the ++ being a winger and a 1st) than we can draft our next center. As it stands right now this team is NOT making the playoffs. 3 teams directly behind us within 2 points and having 2 or 3 games at hand. Losing Kesler means rebuild.
If we were competing and had the depth available i'd do Kesler + for Johansen. but we are not. moving Kesler signals at least a full season rebuild in 2015.
I know Johansen is a stud, no question. but so is Wennberg, So is Horvat, Rychel, Jenner, B Schenn and all bring a specific aspect we need. Pitts giving us bennet and Pouliot (as they will not move Maata with martin and Letang injured) is also good.
we have a chance at almost cannot miss prospects from the last 2 seasons and if done right we could squeeze 2 prospects from last years draft (giving us 4 overall 1st round picks int he uber deep 2013 draft) from columbus and a pick.
while they might not translate into playing this or next season. they'll help this club out immensely.
Because like it or not. Once Kesler is moved we are officially rebuilding. And this means the rest of this season. Plus next season. Then an additional season or two on top of that while our prospects/rookies find their footing.
So at that point we then have a 25-26 year old Johansen or a few 22-23 year old uber prospects. Because like it or not. If we have Shinkaruk, Horvat and say any two of Wennberg Rychel Pouliot Mantha Jenner and another 1st round pick from Kesler, we have a few almost cannot miss career NHL players as opposed to one. And I would much rather have 3 or 4 cannot miss career players over 1 single uber prospect.
That and we could again laugh at Calgary and edmonton as we rebuild in almost no time at all and are competing again quicker than most think possible
I do agree,
if we can get either
Brayden Schenn, Top Prospect (Morin or Laughton) and a 1st Round Draft Pick for Ryan Kesler
or
Boone Jenner, Top Prospect (Rychel or Wennberg) and a 1st Round Draft Pick for Ryan Kesler
Then we take it.
My concern is there is nobody in our system that has the offensive upside to take over 1st line duties from Henrik Sedin. With the exception of Brayden Schenn in all these proposals we wouldn't be getting somebody back who can as well, and even he is questionable. Hence why I was saying we go all in for Johansen. But if we are going to get an offer like the ones above "which I doubt" then I'm all for it.
Granted I'm only basing this on Pittsburgh's crappy offer and how reluctant they seem to part with the necessary pieces. Pittsburgh at the end of the day is just not a great trading partner for us. Philadelphia and Columbus make way more sense. Unless Shero all of a sudden comes to his senses and realizes he will have to part with Maata to get Kesler.
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No he said maatta was the only untouchable
So he's saying he can't best any offer then
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Wennberg is a 6 foot 1 swedish stud point getter of a center. Questionable 2 way game but fast amazing pass. Think Backstrom esque.
Jenner though is Kesler with mroe potential offensive upside and Bieksa like snarl 6 foot 2 211 pounds and a solid wrist shot and decent 2 way game.
Honestly if we are getting Jenner back and Rychel with a pick, its HUGE moving forward. Jenner Murray also good, Wennberg ++ it's a cannot lose. I like Jenner because he has that ugly 2 way game we need when playing against the California teams
I'll admit if we can get Boone Jenner, a 1st or 2nd Round Draft pick & another prospect (Rychel or Wennberg) from Columbus that would be a great trade for us.
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I shouldn't butt into your conversation, because you and I are not talking about the same deal. I would never do Kesler+Horvat for Johansen.
The deal I've proposed has been something along the lines of Kes+pieces for Johansen, Dubinsky, and a high pick/prospect.
Just to note I would rather not give up Horvat for Johansen as the thought of our top three centres being Johansen, Horvat and Gaunce is drool worthy. But to get a player like Johansen without parting with Horvat would probably take Ryan Kesler, 2014 1st Round Draft Pick (which at our rate will be a top 10) and Nicklas Jensen.
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That is not an outlandish statement though.
Would you have, could you have predicted Burrows would be so snakebitten this year? That Daniel couldn't buy a goal out of nowhere? That Heatly would go from 50+ goals a year to literally nothing
Players slump. Losing Horvat + Kesler for one guy who could slump (yes I know he's a solid kid but anything can happen) at any point like that when there is a far greater potential return available is rather silly.
So on that note, yes I AM indeed making a case that all players can slump significantly. but wouldn't you feel better with 3 genuine chances at solid top 4 or top 6 players for their positions as opposed to just 1 single guy for basically the entire future of this team moving forward?
I do get what your saying. We can get more pieces for just Ryan Kesler (which increases the odds of success). But none of them are currently or have the ceiling that Ryan Johansen does. Yes right now we can get a 1st round draft pick, a rosters player and another top prospect for Kesler but other then the "roster" player those are all risks. When you're dealing with picks and unproven prospects you're going to take a risk. At least Ryan Johansen has 150 games played in the NHL and is slightly less of a risk. Any trade you do has an element of risk involved with it. Out of all the players mentioned in possible trades for Ryan Kesler or Alex Edler, Ryan Johansen is the best player to take a "risk" on, maybe Olli Maata.
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But there you go again.
ALL of the available offers rumoured include.
1st round pick. Center under 25 (asset) top blue chip prospect
No matter how good Johansen might be in 5 seasons, he could also go Daigle at any point in time.
So then you also offer our top prospect since the Sedins or Linden. So by association let us do the math.
Kesler (1st, 25 under roster player, top prospect) and Horvat (Schneider)
For....Johansen
Now, how does that look to you?
A franchise or decade defining trade messed up will not propel this team ahead but leave it spinning its wheels or regressing.
So before you start getting all insulting and smarmy. Do the math that I just showed you and now tell me that Kesler + Horvat is a good deal for us when we only get back Johensen
You don't have to make outlandish statements to back up your point, you were doing fine in your argument until this.
Best predictor of future behavior is prior behavior. Johansen is a kid who just loves hockey. He is not going Daigle at any point in time, unless you want to make the argument that ANY player can go Daigle at any time.
Thank you!
If you're going to argue that Johansen could all of a sudden not pan out and pull a Daigle then you have to accept that Horvat won't either. Horvat is a way bigger risk at this point in his career then Johansen. Yes it's a lot to give up but it's often said the team that get's the best player is the winner and in a trade involving Kesler and Horvat for Johansen we get the best player. We can disagree on that if you want. I'd rather have the "extremely risky" Ryan Johansen then the injury prone Kesler or untested Horvat. That's just me though.
[Report] Kesler is still a Canuck
in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Posted
We aren't making the playoffs this year, and if changes to our core aren't made we aren't making the playoffs next year. And by changes I don't mean additions through free agency.
The problem is we have a good enough of a team to be "competitive" but we don't have a good enough of a team to make any kind of impact in the playoffs. We will be consumed my mediocrity. We will just keep missing the playoffs by a couple of points which will result in lower draft picks.
I would much rather throw in the towel this season and try to get the best draft position you can and hope you can trade Kesler and Edler away for draft picks next year in 2015 and younger roster players. Ideally if we can get pieces that will make us "competitive" again with a much younger core over this season and next we will be in good shape to start challenging again in the 2015-16 season.