Lumme21
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Posts posted by Lumme21
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Hate that his no trade protection kicked in.
No team would have given JT 7x8 in free agency. Canucks were betting that he would have got 8 or more in FA, but based on what we saw, there was no chance any team would have given him that money. Some people were greatful that the JT trade chatter would calm down after July 1. For me, it will just be replaced with anger and despair at how this management group is sanbagging any competitive window we may have had with QH, Demko and EP40.
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13 minutes ago, CanuckRookieFan said:
For those of us who don't want to wait 3 years for a rebuild and are content to just going to games for fun the managment team is doing a great job. Draft picks are great for "tankers" but luckily managment is more on the casual fan side it seems with acquiring ready to go players. Vancouver fans don't have a stomach for a rebuild we want entertainment.
Aquilooni is that you?
Some fans have your opinion, but I believe most fans want to see a Stanley Cup contender. Plus, as a fan it is entertaining to see players like Bedard or Fantili playing (If they tank had been done right), even if for the first year or two the canucks are losing.
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1 hour ago, jyu said:
Yep, he won't need to be a center on this team next season because we are getting BEDARD!!! or FANTILLIII!!!
You are right. I don't think you can win the cup with Miller as your top 6 center. But as long as we are rebuilding, he'll do.
Miller is signed for another 7 years after this. No one wants to rebuild for 7 years. He should have been / must be traded
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I believe Vancouver should retain half the salary to get a better return - likely a first round pick and or prospect. Boeser's deal only has 2 more years on it. The added advantage would be that JR and PA would have around 3M less to spend on UFA's and further dig the whole they have created. (Yes I know this won't happen).
The fact that JR and PA, let alone Aquaman wouldn't consider something like this because they think they can contend in the next 2 years is mindboggling.
Even something simple such as retaining for Boeser and Garland would help overcome the mistakes and opportunity cost of not trading Kuz and Miller, and extending Boeser in the first place.
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On 1/21/2023 at 9:34 AM, Podkolzins Snipe said:
I agree with your assessment but think it's great that we do have some of the players you mentioned actually also still have the ability to be top end forwards.
Another prospect that exites me is McDonough who as a power forward the can really score and could easily end up being a poor man's Draisaitl as he shows similar skills to go with good size and confidence.
McDonough is 23 years old. At that age, Draisaitl scored 105 points in the NHL.
Just another example of Vancouver fans overvaluing their prospects. The reality is that the Canucks prospect pool by most experts is ranked bottom 5 in the league. The Canucks needed to trade Miller, Horvat and Kuz in addition to landing the likes of Livingston to restock the cupboards and be competitive in the future.
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2 hours ago, DSVII said:
Just a Bronx cheer "aqua-lini" should do it.
aqua-lini, aqua-lini, hey hey goodbye.
or
Sell the team.
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16 minutes ago, stawns said:
yup, really. A top 2 dman and a 40-50 point guy, for Guenther? I'll take that every time
OEL is hardly a top 2 dman. You are also missing the opportunity cost as OEL and Garland combine to make over 13 Million. I can think of so many better ways of spending 13 Million, let alone also giving up a 1st (Guenther) and also the 2022 2nd round pick.
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JR's plan is simply terrible.
He says he wants to be competitive in 3 years. OEL's contract alone is 4 years away. There is no way this team can be competitive in 3 years, and they shouldn't be trying. He mentioned buy outs, that is a terrible idea as it cripples the future. Let the contracts run out or retain half salary if necessary (OEL, Boeser, Garland, Meyers). And even in 3 years, because they didn't trade Miller for future assets, they won't young guys on ELC to help them compete, especially if as JR said they are targeting 22-26 year old players. Until OEL's contract ends, they should be trying to rehabilitate failed prospects from other teams and rebuild their value, and taking other teams anchor contracts in exchange for picks so that in 4 years they truly will have both the cap space, and the prospects to maintain their cup winning window.
On a side note, it is clear they will also try to resign Kuz. Kuz is already 26. The right move would be to trade Kuz for future picks. If they are so enamored with kuz they could still sign in the summer, but honestly any signings they make should be made with the thought of rehabilitating and gaining future value, not maintaining team competitiveness.
Words are cheap. Actions are more telling. They signed Miller and Boeser to anchor contracts, added Kuz, and Mikheyev because they thought they could contend. They are admitting they want to resign Bo too (but are getting priced out) so where are the incoming picks? Clearing of cap space? Incoming prospects?
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On 1/12/2023 at 6:42 AM, canucklehead44 said:
I think management has done a solid job. When Benning took over it was clearly time to rebuild. The core was past prime and we had minimal good young players. But instead that era traded and downgraded more picks than acquired.
the team now is different. Management inherited a solid young core in EP, Hughes, Demko, Boeser, Horvat. With Horvat creeping toward the end of his prime - and EP/Hughes starting theirs competing now actually made sense especially after almost a decade of floundering.
The moves they made have been great, and while re-signing Miller in hindsight hasn’t been great it sure made a lot more sense than trading a top 10 pick and a second rounder for two terrible contracts
This is one of the worst takes ever. What moves gave been great exactly?
This team is not different. Yes we added Mikheyev and Kuz, but essentially it is the same team that hasn't been good enough for many years now. Last off season it was clear they needed to move on from Boeser at the TDL, it was obvious with his qualifying offer that he was going to get overpaid. Miller's value was at a all time high, and the canucks needed to cash in. Horvat's value is now at a all time high, and they need to cash in again, same with Kuz. With the cap saving opened up, the Canucks should take on more bloated short term contracts for more picks, and thus expediate the rebuild while letting their younger players play.... but they wont.I like Mikheyev, but wrong time to sighn hom for 4 years. Kuz was a good sighning, but unfortunately because of Boeser and Miller being resigned, there is no room for a Kuz contract next year, and regaurdless we need the assets from his trade as this team is still uncompetetive.
And in a year when there is a generational draft, with multiple players not just Bedard being able to turn franchises around, would you say this is the year to compete? The window was long closed and with this overpaid D core, there is nothing that says this team could be competetive.
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9 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:
This is the truth. In 20-21 Boeser was our best forward. He drove play from the wing, improved drastically in his 2 way game, and lead the team in points.
In 21-22 he had a down year, after the death of his father. The idea of letting that player walk to free agency after that year would have been absolutely unheard of. For someone to try to argue it was an option to walk, is absurd.
It may not have been an option to let him walk, but it was absurd to sign BB to that deal. The right move would have been to move BB and JT last trade deadline. BB's current deal, and it not working out, was completely predictable.
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13 minutes ago, Alflives said:
Rebuild around Miller? Trading Bo could definitely help a rebuild.
Trading Bo for assets is the only logical move, but rebuilding around Miler is a terrible idea. He's a winger, is not elite, and isn't defensively responsible. JT is simply not a cornerstone player, and therefore must be traded as well.
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6 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:
The issue with “OEL is the problem” talk is that if you’re “rebuilding” you aren’t giving up assets to move him out and may as well keep him.
If you’re re-tooling, moving him out just creates one more hole in an already thin top 4. We need an RHD and a 3C before we tinker with the left side of the D core.
Finally, he has an NMC which if I were him I’d be using to block trades to the cellar dweller teams with the cap space to eat his contract. Really, the discussion there would be more about a potential buyout.
Which to me circles back to the RD / 3C conundrum - you already have two big holes to fill, why create another?
Are you really going to find a better player for the ~4 mil space your saving after a buyout? And that’s assuming you find it for free/low cost. Likely finding a good player on a nice deal is going to cost assets.
Meanwhile, it’s a big stretch to think OEL’s play this year is all age related. When the entire team is playing crap defensively, it’s going to make everyone look worse.
Edler is older than OEL will be when his contract ends and we’re seeing guys like Doughty and Karlsson still playing at v high levels older than OEL. I’d wait until he has a good partner and the team finds its structure before assuming he’s out of gas.
I don't think OEL's problems are all age related, but that is all the more concerning. His skating looks labored, and he is making mental mistakes by being out of position or giving the puck away in ways he didn't before. The only option is to work with him and attempt to rehabilitate his playing ability. He will never be worth his cotract, but we cant afford to buy him out, nor give up the assets needed to trade him (If he waves his no move clause in any event).
The entire team has been playing defensively like crap for years, which is exactly why it is staggering that the management group doubled down by resigning Boeser and Miller. For those that like Bo, he doesn't penalty kill, and while wins face-offs isn't a defensive magician. If you look at the '11 team, where is the Burrows, Kesler, Malholtra, Hansen, Higgins, and Bieksa's of this team? The make up of this team is off, and its frustrating that we aren't seeing the changes it needs. Management thinks it can tinker around the edges, but to me it's clear that changed are needed to the top lines and not just the corners.
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2 hours ago, rekker said:I do disagree with that. Myers has shown to bring down anyone he's paired with. Would love to see OEL in a more offensive role, rather than babysitting Myers. Definitely agree on drafting. Historically, Canucks brutal at drafting and developing D. I believe it's the biggest reason there is no cup. No Norris winners, no cup.
Don't misunderstand me... I don't like Myers and see the same defensive deficiencies everyone else does,. just believe that his, and his contract and play isn't the anchor that OEL is.
Myers is right handed. His contract at 50% retained for 2 years is tradeable.
OEL was alright last year, but not with his contract, and his play is only declining. His contact is prohibitive to move.
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1 hour ago, rekker said:
Bo and JT are legit together and with Bo here the center depth is legit. Without Bo the center depth gets thin while bolstering the D ( with a Bo trade). To me it's either trade Bo and start a tear down, re build. Or keep Bo and go for it. What if JR could lose Myers contract, trade our first and one if our surplus wingers for a legit, youngish, Dman. To me, it's one or the other.
He may need to trade the 1st to lose Myers, however, Myers isn't the contract that is the problem. Its clearly OEL.
I personally think you could trade Myers for a small or even good return, specially if you retained 50%, but they won't. That 50% for two years wouldn't hurt us if we are rebuilding. The same could be said for Horvat (UFA anyways) and Miller (for this year only before extension) and Boeser (Should have been traded at last TD and not resigned).
We have been 'going for it' with both Miler and Bo for a while now, and it clearly isn't working. Teams don't just trade legit youngish Dman for magic beans. This team doesn't have the assets to make that trade. They need more picks in order that they can select (And not not take the OJ's of the draft over the Mcavay or Sergachev types etc) and develop multiple D Man.
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18 minutes ago, TGT68 said:
Really think it's you that needs a reality check.
The new regime is not going to turn the team around on a dime. It is not their style or what they were hired to do. We may see a big trade or two and hopefully those trades bring in prospect depth and draft picks. We will make the playoffs this year and goal will be to make them every year from here on out. I don't believe we will ever tank. But yes I still believe Horvat or Miller must go, whichever brings the best haul.
Slow and steady wins the race and I believe that is the plan.
Are you a hack working for FA? JR and PA could have turned this team around last TD and dug their heels in and double downed. They hitched their wagons to the wring players, already traded away picks to be competitive (all be it only a second) and it will set this team back for a long time (again). The new regime looks exactly like the old regimes, the only thing consistent is FA.
Slow and steady? Like the last 10 years?
New York Rangers didn't go slow, and look at where they are now. They identified the correct players to build around, and then went for it. They supposedly offered Van a lifeline in Lundqvist and picks to Van for Miller, yet we didn't take it and instead made a anchor out of what was once a very good asset (Miller).
What's the value in keeping Miller or Bo, if you can't compete? They both have to be traded for assets. By keeping one, and not the other, you are ensuring this team stays in that list of teams just out of playoff contention but with no top 10 pick.
This team will not make the playoffs, and if they do, it means that they would have to have extended Horvat for an outrageous contract. The goal shouldn't be to make the playoffs every year (16 teams do that) the goal has to be to win a cup.
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1 hour ago, TGT68 said:
Confused at all the huge swings. Had a bit of a slow start. Not at all out of it and nothing is slim at this point. Everyone just needs a little patience.
I think you need a reality check. Most fans have been patient for 10 years. This team is not confusing at all. It is fragile, capped out, and lacks defensive awareness. Demko looked great, and likely is getting back to form, and he, Miller and Bo will push this team to 10th-12th or so in the West.
The only confusing thing is management seemingly doubling down on this team. They will be forced to trade Horvat. If Horvat goes, Boeser and Miller should also follow. With that, the Canucks may actually have a legit chance at a top 5 pick, which is what they really need.
Instead, they are going to hire Rich Tocchet, get coaching bump, and as I said finish with a dreaded 13-16th overall pick. They will get another 1st round pick (Likely 2024) in the Horvat trade and say they tried everything they could to sign the captain blah blah blah and succeeded in their goals of getting younger and more picks. BS.
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21 minutes ago, Comeback_Kings said:
Canucks need cap space to sign their captain. Underperforming players (based on their salary) need to be traded out when possible to do so, one of Boeser, OEL, Myers should be traded. Boeser for Nyquist (ufa at the end of the season) would make sense. CBJ has injuries to scoring wingers in Laine and Voracek.
No, they need to trade their captain to get cap space and assets to be a cup contender.
Boeser for Nyquist is a terrible trade. I despise the fact that Boeser was signed, but at the TDL, I don't see how is wouldn't be worth at least a second.
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3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:
you really think any other ufa and agents will consider signing with vancouver ever again if you dump a player after they signed a max extension right before it kicks in?
Well for the next three years, that's the best news for anyone that wants to see this team be a contender. Even if canucks free up cap space, gauranteed they blow it on someone stupid. And yes I think players will come here as UFA, because we continually give them more then they could get anywhere else...
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6 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:
I could see something like:
to CBJ - (C) Bo Horvat and (LD) Jack Rathbone
to VAN - (C) Jack Roslovic, (LD/RD) Jake Bean and 4th
That's a terrible trade. Horvat needs to bring back a 'A' prospect. Unless you mean a 4th overall coming back....
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7 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:
TBH the Leafs never thought that they could get #1 and they did
The leafs tanked hard for Matthews, they didn't just 'see what happens'. They intentionally made moves to considerably weaken their team with long term goals in mind. Vancouver needs to do the same, but won't. A competent management team would have moved out Boeser last year, and not resigned Miller. They can still trade Bo which would help the team stay lower in the standings, but I wish they would also sell off Miller as well.
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Just now, Lumme21 said:
I disagree. Benning made the choice obvious, and PA and JR still bit. The clear and only logical move was to move Boeser at last year's deadline. Boeser would have been of interest to multiple teams last TDL, those that wanted a rental only, and those that want a player they could possiblky sign long term.
And before someone replies that they couldn't move Boeser at last years TDL as they were in a playoff run, I would say they were never actually in the race. Even if management believed they were, they surely weren't a Stanley cup contender, and that is all that matters. The clear move was to not only move Boeser, but Miller and Horvat too.
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On 11/14/2022 at 2:16 PM, Crabcakes said:
Benning did him no favours by signing him to a bridge deal with a $7.5M QO. The deal that Allvin got at $6.65M is very good given the circumstances but he's still about $1M too high. His over priced contract is going to put him on the trade block imo.
I disagree. Benning made the choice obvious, and PA and JR still bit. The clear and only logical move was to move Boeser at last year's deadline. Boeser would have been of interest to multiple teams last TDL, those that wanted a rental only, and those that want a player they could possiblky sign long term.
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It's not only that they need to tank.... They need to start to intentionally moving players now, before this teams chances of a top 5 pick are out of reach. While people are celebrating a 5-4 win against Buffalo, the Canucks keep moving up the standings towards that 'Murky Middle' and FA sees a team that is 'in the playoff race' and won't have the balls to do what is needed now.
Horvat got a goal and 2 assists. Horvat is playing so hot right now, as the team starts playying bettter, he will keep this team close while his trade value won't get any higher then it is right now. Horvat, Miller should be traded ASAP. I'd say Boeser too, but his stupid penalty late in the game almost aided a Buffalo comeback, so he and his terrible play can stay around a little longer.
Don't let FA get any inkling that a rebuild isn't the only solution....
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Not to burst the balloon of anyone that wanted to 'celebrate' a 5-4 over Buffalo, but this game is a prime example of why if Management doesn't trade Horvat now, it will be an opportunity lost. Horvat got a goal and 2 assists, and if he keeps playing that hot, he will propel the Canucks to the 'mushy middle' just outside the playoff race, but far enough up the standings that we won't get one of the studs we need to rebuild around. Meanwhile, his trade value won't increase any more then it is right now.
The time is now.
J.T. Miller | #9 | C/W
in Current Roster
Posted
On a contending team, Raty is irrelevant, Beau is benched, and Hronek is either a 2 or 3. Not debated that we needed to trade Bo, but trading Bo needed to happen in tandem with trading Miller. Had the canucks kept the picks from the Bo trade, they could have had Willander AND Oiver Moore or ASP, plus second round picks such as a Cristial or Gauthier and additional prospects. As well, having traded Miller and Bo, they would have likely properly tanked and had a chance at Fantili or Bedard, or at minimum would have had Reinbacher or Michkov.
This team lacks the elite talent needed to be a cup contender.