[William Lockwood | RW]

I kind of hope Lockwood signs an ATO and plays the year out in Utica. But I could also see him getting a chance to play a couple games in Vancouver.

 

I’m not sure how much leverage Lockwood has but Griffin Molino got to play some NHL games right out of college. 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

8 hours ago, logic said:

Yeah makes you wanna vomit when they donate millions of their own money to childrens hospitals, and give their own time just to try bring joy and happiness to people. Ya people like you make me vomit, you must be not be a very good person to not appreciate what guys like the Sedins have done for Vancouver 

I like that, judging a person on a chat room, having never met them. You must be a great person to judge people that quickly. 

 

I’m guessing what didn’t come through in my post after having read it back - is that when I say it makes me vomit when someone mentions a players community work - I mean when the fans and people use that as a reason why we can never trade a player or when they rate how good a player was during his career. 

 

IMO community work should not be attached to any hockey discussion about said player. 

 

Obviously donating money is a good thing. But personally, I don’t let it affect my feelings towards the player’s performance on the ice.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

4 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I don’t understand this at all.  

 

We scraped the bottom of the barrel, traded away a ton of vets and landed 5 top 10 picks during that stretch.  We also ended up moving Burr for a pretty nice piece in Dahlen.

 

I understand JB didn’t publicly call for scorched earth and we didn’t set out to “tank” an entire season away... but we certainly rebuilt over that time.  

 

What we missed out on slightly higher draft picks I think we’ve made back in a young, high character, no-drama core we’ve seen come into its own.  Having that old guard Canuck leadership undoubtedly helped.  Players rave about the Sedins and it’s no coincidence Bo turned the corner playing that season with Burrows.  

 

To tie it all into this thread, it’s the reason I’d like Edler and Tanev to be with the club when Juolevi and Hughes make the jump.  

 

Having quality vets on the team doesn’t stall a rebuild.. it helps facilitate it.  

I don’t totally disagree with you. But their contracts were bad. 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

I know how contracts work, but our management team at the time got to sentimental when dealing with players like Burrows.

 

All of you defending the 2nd Burrows contract, are too sentimental as well, because he “slayed the dragon”. He simply did not produce according to what he got paid. 

 

Anyways I’ll keep it short and leave it at that. So that this can get back to Juolevi talk. 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

47 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

 

This has nothing to do with Juolevi. And Burrows was worth every dime we paid him for this time here. 

now that is fake news.

 

You are the one that quoted my statement, then said it was fake news. I was just backing up my point.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

Just now, HomeBrew said:

Fake news. 

How so?

 

Burrows made $2 million while he was scoring 25-35 goals

(28 years old) 2009-10 - 35 goals - $2 million 

(29 years old) 2010-11 - 26 goals - $2 million

(30 years old) 2011-12 - 28 goals - $2 million

(31 years old) 2012-13 - 13 goals in 47 games - $2 million (strike shortened season)

Signed a 4 year deal with a $4.5 million AAV with a NTC

(32 years old) 2013-14 - 5 goals in 49 games - $4.5 million

(33 years old) 2014-15 - 18 goals - $4.5 million

(34 years old) 2015-16 - 9 goals - $4.5 million

(35 years old) 2016-17 - 9 goals in 55 games for Vancouver - $4.5 million

 

You don't give someone who's 32 years old, their production already waning a 250% raise to go along with a NTC. Albatross contract for his production.

 

The Sedin's are obviously not as bad but their production had already been waning prior to them signing their last contract. Then at 33 years old they inexplicably got a raise and a full NMC, they had 1 more good year where they were worth the money and then they regressed like old players tend to do.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

They held our team hostage for 4 years, because we couldn't truly embrace a rebuild while they were here wrapping up their careers.

 

It makes me want to vomit whenever I hear someone praise a players community work. As a fan I couldn't care less what a player does in the community. They get paid to play the game, produce and try to win championships.  

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

Except both of your examples (the Sedin's and Burrows) had albatross contracts that didn't match their production after their primes. 

 

But I never blamed them for getting those contracts, just management for giving them those contracts.

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

I dislike so many of these premises. 

No player should get blamed for signing for as much money as possible. Tkachuk shouldn't be blamed for the Jets moving. The ownership should be blamed for not having enough money to pay their players.

 

The argument of taking $1-2 million dollars less per year and still being "filthy rich" is a ridiculous statement IMO. First off its not just $1-2 million it's $8-16 million in the case of McDavid. I don't know anybody who would want to give up that much money. We really shouldn't judge anybody based on the money they get paid. Especially when someone felt they were worth it. 

 

As for Juolevi and his attitude towards fans. Not every player is PK Subban who loves being the center of attention. Some players are uncomfortable being the center of attention and/or with fan interaction, especially as young player and then on top that, probably even more so being in a new country (as someone mentioned before). This issue hits a little closer to home for me, as I played minor league baseball, during that time I was never comfortable with fan interaction. I probably came off as rude to some fans but it wasn't me being rude or thinking I was too good for the fans, it was more me being intimidated by the situation and not being great at small talk. I think we forget that professional athletes are just normal people and everyone of them has unique personalities and characteristics. Also their personalities have nothing to do with their skills and how good they are. 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

No, I doubt they will update us too, especially during the season. I think that's the whole point of coming out and saying he was done until training camp next year. Now he can just rehab and train in order to give himself the best chance to make the team out of camp next season, without fans asking the organization if he's coming back this season.
 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

4 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I get what you’re trying to say but IMHO, Linden is a horrible example to use.  As a 18 year old when up with the Canucks, he was hitting everything in sight...in practice!  Never took a shift off or got discouraged despite being on a very bad team (worse than the low point of this current team...THAT bad).  Guy just ozzed leadership from day one.   Who the heck was calling the pick a bust?  They don’t do that even on the HF boards.  You need guys that’ll put up points like Modano but you also need leaders like Linden for the post season ( not like he was offensively challenged).  Jeebus, Trev was one of our better forwards on Team Canada in Nagano.

 

Other NHL GMs valued him.  Look at the haul we got when Keenan traded him.  Bertuzzi, McCabe (one of the main pieces used to get one of the Sedins) and a pick (which we used to draft Jarkko)

This is where your fandom comes in, because he was probably your favourite player in Canucks history. But the fact is if we play the same game most of CDC plays with Juolevi and Tkachuk or with Virtanen vs Ehlers and Nylander, you will see that the Canucks should've drafted Roenick, Brindamour or Selanne. It doesn't matter that Linden had a pretty good career. Those other guys were unquestionably significantly superior to Trevor Linden. 

[Olli Juolevi | #48 | D]

I haven't read all the posts. So I don't know if this has been mentioned. 

 

But the greatest example of hypocrisy I can give, is the fact that many on CDC are trying to figure out ways to trade for or acquire Dante Fabbro - (probably mostly cause he's a local kid). While many of the same people are calling Juolevi a bust.

 

They rave about Fabbro who's was drafted in the same year (2016) and is the same age (20) as Juolevi. Even though just like Juolevi, Fabbro is in his 3rd season since getting drafted and not yet in the NHL either.

 

It's like people are in capable of viewing the nuances of development. First off, we really only care about the point totals of prospects, largely because that's the only thing we get to see. But it gets deeper because if Juolevi was in college like Fabbro, people wouldn't be calling him a bust. But because he's not in the NCAA, we disregard his numbers, the fact that he is improving them and the fact that he is doing so in more difficult leagues than Fabbro has been playing in. 

 

Juolevi

2016-17 - OHL - 42 Points in 58 Games

2017-18 - Liiga - 19 Points in 38 Games, playing in one of the top men's leagues in the world

2018-19 - AHL - 13 Points in 18 Games, before getting hurt for the rest of the season

 

Fabbro 

2016-17 - NCAA - 18 Points in 36 Games

2017-18 - NCAA - 29 Points in 38 Games

2018-19 - NCAA - 20 Points in 21 Games

 

Also it's 2019, no one should be worried about knee surgeries these days. 

 

On a side note Juolevi could still be a bust, but we won't know for many more years probably.

 

Fans of the Canucks shouldn't be that harsh to judge. A lot of the fans' all time favourite Canuck Trevor Linden was drum roll please..........a BUST. Meaning there were better picks available when the Canucks drafted him, even if he had a long, nice career.

 

[Lukas Jasek | RW]

I think Jasek might have jumped Dahlen as the next young forward with offensive upside to get a call up to the Canucks. Now this is truly a shot in the dark, as I have only seen him play in one game and that was the televised game vs the Marlies a couple days ago. However Jasek looks like he has good playmaking ability and a good hockey IQ, he also looks like he skates better than Dahlen (I was not impressed by his skating ability). Lastly, I think he is better defensively and can easily play in a 3rd line role at first. 

[Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW]

8 hours ago, mll said:

He has 106 minutes on the PP - 3rd on the team.  Only Horvat and Pettersson have more PP minutes

that's a little misleading because Boeser missed 11 games, Goldy is actually 7th on the team in PPTOI/G. Baertschi was on the 1st unit for all the 10 games he played (i believe), Gagner was on the 1st power play for all 7 games he played I believe (some of those taking Goldy off the 1st team PP), Leivo has played in 11 games and has taken Goldy off the 1st unit for some of those games. So he hasn't been on the on the 1st PP the whole time and we all know the 2nd unit probably gets 30-45 seconds to the 1st units 75-90 seconds. When they do get on, its usually coming from the defensive end of the ice, so a lot of times they don't even get fully set up before the PP is over. I'm not saying Goldy should replace Pettersson on the PP1, just saying Barzal's PP time 119 minutes is not equal to Goldobin's. I don't really think that's a reach to say that. Barzal is the trigger man controlling the Islanders PP, Goldy is usually an afterthought if and when he is on the Canucks PP1, when you have Boeser and Pettersson they are rightfully the focus.

[Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW]

24 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

The comparison is pretty unfair IMO. Barzal has 4 less games and 6 more points. His points per game is 0.826 compared to Goldy's points-per-game of 0.590. There's a pretty drastic difference between the two. Barzal is still a bonafide 1st line player on pace for 68 points and Goldobin is still scoring at a 2nd line level on pace for 48 points.

 

All that said, I agree with the notion that he's getting an unfair treatment by most fans. I understand the frustrations, but it's really hard to justify any decision to scratch him on a regular basis when he's scoring at a solid top 6 rate and showing off his hockey smarts on the regular.

look at the goals though, a lot of fans have been ragging on Goldy because of his lack of goals, plus Barzal is the centerpiece of the Islanders powerplay whereas Goldy is largely an afterthought or on the 2nd PP getting minimal time for the Canucks. 

[Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW]

Can I just put this here - 

 

Nikolay Goldobin (1st full season) - 39GP - 5G - 18A - 23P - 15:15 TOI/GP

Mathew Barzal (2nd full season) - 35GP - 5G - 24A - 29P - 18:29 TOI/GP

 

Now I'm not saying Goldobin is as good as Barzal but I think its safe to say, if Barzal was a Canuck people wouldn't be trashing him and saying we should get rid of him and that he's not a core player based on his stats this year. 

 

Also Goldobin has been in North America since Junior Hockey, so I don't think he's going to run back to Russia unless he gets treated unfairly. 

[Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW]

I guess we should worry about staying healthy first. Because we probably won't ever be fully healthy.

[Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW]

I don't know that they would do that to Leivo, he just came from a team where he was buried in the press box for the better part of 2 years. I think they will give him opportunities to play. It's definitely getting harder to figure out who their going to healthy scratch when Sutter and Baertschi get back.

[Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW]

Last nights performance is going to become more regular if you keep the Goldy - Pettersson - Boeser line together and let them develop chemistry. I think Baertschi should be on the Horvat line when he returns, Baertschi can be both a playmaker and a scorer and Bo needs that to make his line more dangerous again. 

I'm leaning towards these line (if and when everybody is healthy again):

 

Goldobin - Pettersson - Boeser

Baertschi - Horvat - Virtanen

Leivo - Sutter - Eriksson

Roussel - Beagle - Motte/Granlund 

 

Schaller - Granlund/Motte - MDZ = Scratches

 

I would waive Biega and send Gaudette down (even though I don't really want to)

 

Then depending where the Canucks are positioned at the trade deadline I would look to make some moves.

 

The easiest way for Jim Benning to make some trades is if the Canucks aren't in the playoff race at the deadline.

If their not in the playoff race, I would look to move the bit pieces like Nilsson, Schaller, MDZ, Gagner and it hurts me to say this but maybe Granlund too for draft picks. I would also try and make bigger trades involving Sutter and Edler. 

 

This way we could call up some players for the last month and a bit. 

[Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW]

I don't know in what world Goldobin is expected to play in the final minutes of a game, when defending a lead. If he could that would be great, but I'm fine with a Roussel or Beagle taking a wing spot over Goldy in those situations. Hell I don't want Boeser out there either. 

 

You say it's his 4th season, while it's really only his 1st full season. You can't really count a 9 game stint with the SJ and then a 12 game stint with the Canucks as a season. Technically you can count his 38 game season last year but that's not even half a season, so I'm counting this more so like his rookie year. I think it's very misleading to claim this is his 4th season in the NHL.

[Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW]

2 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Leivo showing he belongs with EP and Brock

I don't really think Leivo has shown he's belongs with EP and Brock. He did well today, but he's been pretty invisible to me. Now it's early and I hope he succeeds but I would rather see Goldy with Boeser and Pettersson rather than Leivo. 

 

I am afraid the Canucks are going to bury and lose the asset in Goldy once Baertschi comes back, because Green will still expect Goldy to score while limiting his minutes. And then once he doesn't score he will be in the press box. 

 

I wonder what the lines will look like once Sutter and Baertschi are back.

 

Lines

Leivo - Pettersson - Boeser

Baertschi - Horvat - Virtanen

Roussel - Sutter - Eriksson 

Granlund - Beagle - Motte

Scratches

Goldobin -  Schaller - Del Zotto/Pouliot

 

I don't see where Goldobin will play under Green's system because I don't think he'll be effective in the bottom 6 (duh), Baertschi could play 3rd line winger but I don't see them moving Eriksson or Roussel down, if you did though then you'd split time with Granlund, Motte and Schaller at the other 4th line wing position.

 

Man this is going to leave me with a headache and probably pissed off at Green. 

[Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW]

I don't get the hate for Goldy? He's playing his first full NHL season and is on pace for 45-50 points. If somebody would've told you prior to the season Goldy would get over 40 points we all would've loved it. He's not supposed to be physical, if he's going to be a 10 year NHL veteran it will be because of his offense and him putting up points. 

 

I also don't get why everybody is harping on his goal totals? Why does everybody seemingly think he should be a 40 goal scorer? In the OHL and AHL, he has always had more assists than goals. He's a playmaker, more than a pure goal scorer. I'd be happy if he put up 15-20 goals this year, assuming he goes back to playing with Pettersson. 

 

He's had good chemistry with Pettersson, I hope he can find some with Horvat and Virtanen but they are both more put your head down go to the net and shoot type, than the tic tac toe type. Probably about half or just under half of Goldy's points haven't involved Pettersson on the score sheet, so its not all Pettersson.

 

Let the kid (22 years old) get through an entire season before crushing him, he's improved quite a bit since getting to Vancouver, let him keep gaining confidence and realizing he can play in the NHL. As he gains more and more confidence, things will start to slow down for him and he should continue to get better.