BedBeats™2.0
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Posts posted by BedBeats™2.0
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Blake Price makes a good point about the fact that if Feaster is hired as GM, it can be implied that Torts is here for the long term given that not many GM's would gush about how great a coach Torts is like Feaster just did in that interview.
I'm just glad this is all just one big nightmare I'm having here.
See you all when I wake up.
Im in the same dream world, except im at a bar getting wasted gearing up for a possible dark time in this ownerships steed.
Ill save you a seat and buy you a shot.
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Linden: No
Nazzy: Maybe in a lesser role.
Feaster: Not my cup of tea.
Current list of assistant GM's on good, current NHL clubs. For sure. Interview them.
Cam Neely: Hell yeah.
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??????
MG had more then his fair chance not sure what your talking about and why you think an owner that give MG as long as he did would get another new GM next year????
Fire a GM before the season ends? Even if its one the worst in the recent past?
You are out to lunch if you think this move warrants merit.
MG's Hockey-ops team nearly doubled the teams worth.
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Why would they do that? They're going to replace MG with their guy.
Weird how Nonis was a knee jerk move and Aquas hire MG.
They are going to have it tough attracting a new GM with meddling ownership at the helm.
Hockey operations need to stay with Hockey minds. Not ownership treating this team like a vanity project.
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Stupid, stupid move.
So beyond idiotic.
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Very well. That was under a Crawford tenure. Different style.
He's had 5 great years with Portland since then.
What was it you are referring to specifically?
Those teams shared only a few shared hallmarks: utilizing speed and a north south approach when moving the puck.
I wasnt referring to anything that was putting down your suggestion. I really like Mike Johnston. Savvy Hockey mind and has written 3 of the best Hockey books in the last decade plus.
I just think its time for him to finally have a crack at a head coaching gig. He has put in his fair share due payment.
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If the ownership decides to blow the whole thing wide open then I'd be very interested in seeing if the Portland Winterhawks Mike Johnston would be available. I even think he'd be an excellent option as an assistant coach.
You dont remember his 1st tour of duty here in Vancouver?
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Team was on fire in December when we should have been 8th or 9th.
Torts get's the most out of the players
Some growing pains leading to his firing and Gillis is a terrible GM, hope we can get McDavid and let Lauernce Gilman have his fresh start.
Rick Nash, Ryan Callahan, Chris Krieder, Marion Gaborik, Derek Stepan, and Brad Richards just threw up a little in their mouths while lulzing at that post.
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Stevens was my choice from the start for who was available. I'd be happy with him coming in as a replacement, but we'll need to find a balance with assistant coaches too.
In an ideal world, AV would have been retained, Bones and Brown would have been replaced by Torts and Stevens.
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I still find it so strange that a former Norris winner cannot get his d-corps in line.
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My guess would have been that Tippett was #1 on the list.
If Tortorella was for the most part an ownership decision, I have absolutely no interest in finding out who Gillis might be replaced with.
My sense/impression is that Gillis was not trusted enough - and that a measure of control was taken out of his hands - and that might also explain why some pretty fundamental things that characterize Gillis' approach appear to have been ignored for the most part. Not least of which is dealing with the reality of being a west coast team and the resulting demands upon the players. Even if you go back to the first month of the season, before injuries hammered the depth of the team, you see that the fourth line was playing 3, 4,5 minutes a night.
Tortorella recently made comments that the lack of depth pretty much dictated what he could and could not do with the lineup, but I can only accept that explanation at the point at which the team was in fact missing a handful of players on a regular basis. I was disappointed with that comment, tbh, because it is almost always taken as a vote of non-confidence in what a GM has provided. Imo, at that point and with all the mistakes that Tortorella had made, that was probably the last thing he should be making allusions to. Isn't he a guy who prefers to give out very top heavy minutes and has done so regularly in his coaching career? To try to retroactively suggest that a lack of depth forced his hand is questionable, and probably didn't earn him any favour with his GM. That kind of thing generally winds up being divisive, so I'm not particularly surprised that Gillis is now standing his ground.
If the rumours surfacing that Luigi is stepping in and removing Frank as a roadblock to help MG operate in full capacity are true, then i am hopeful this season was just a failed experiment on Luigi leaving the team open to be messed with when MG is more than capable of running things.
I also picked up on Torts throwing MG under the bus regarding depth. Im pretty sure in that same interview he also claimed that he and MG get along like Tina Fey and Amy Poehler.
Very telling, and benevolently clumsy words chosen by Torts.
Meant to comment earlier about only rolling 3 lines. Not a fan at all. How in the bloody hell do you ever advance in the /season/playoffs without 4 lines? That coupled with what you mentioned about scaling back the talented 2-way forwards PK time for the Sedins is such a recipe for disaster. He should have already known that the Twins have played on the PK under Crow, but their ability is better served in pure offensive roles.
Again, if Torts had done his homework and ditched his antiquated belief that players (forwards) want to play as much as possible so they play ungodly minutes, leading to injury susceptibility...then maybe we wouldnt be having these discussions.
Heavy minutes are the domain of talented D-men.
Even Sids TOI average scaled down as the season went on.
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Montreal would pretty much just be like "lol" and hang up the phone.
Bergevin, as he was known for his solid pranks as a player, would probably troll MG and ownership for a long time if he ever received that call.
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Subtract useful defenceman.
Yeahhhhhhhhhh....NO.
Seriously that is just stupid.
My god people.
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I agree for the most part. The one thing I would question is whether Tortorella didn't in fact have time to assess what made the team successful.
One thing that irked me in the interviews he conducted before the Rangers game was his answer to the question of what he thought about the way they were playing. His answer was that he hadn't looked at them at all - was focused on what he's doing with this team. For a guy who so many folks considered superior to AV where making adjustments are concerned, not even looking at the gameplanning and tendencies of your next opponent? Really? Should we really be that surprised, then, when the result is to come out of the first period at a 2-0 deficit?
I also simply cannot accept that a few months before the season is not enough time to grasp the style of hockey the team had employed, or the ways in which the particular players had been utilized.
I can't accept that, and it was one of the only things that really annoyed me in his comments after arriving here. He routinely gave the "I don't know much about these guys" line, "I don't know much about the western conference" - to me that reads as ingenuous on a certain level, and unprofessional on another. He absolutely should have grasped the reality of the compacted Olympic travel and play schedule, etc - and yet decided to go with a 3 line approach pretty much from the get-go, before the injuries really started to hit, went with Edler as his primary shutdown defenseman, underutilized key two way guys... Too many not particularly prudent decisions that cannot be excused as a learning on the job kind of thing. If he in fact didn't know enough about the team or conference, he certainly failed when it came to doing his homework. How much of that is overconfidence or a determination to simply do things his way regardless of the situation he is stepping into, who knows? But in the end, these were issues that even most of us amateur fans on these boards grasped.
*Nothing annoys me more than the notiion that a team has to be turned inside out to suit a new coach.
Mike Keenan is the poster cover for that approach, and spent every single last whiff of my patience for that kind of arrogance.
I like that breakdown.
I actually had forgotten how often he used the "i dont know much about_____" early in the season (actually even before that).
Its fair to speculate that Stevens was in fact MG's leading candidate. Why not hire a guy from a Western team who has some prior scouted knowledge of the team. Shoulda,coulda,woulda. Though you would think Gully would have had more of an influence in the direction of the team.
But i digress. Torts clearly didnt do enough of the correct homework/scouting when taking this gig.
Im sooooo reaching here, i wonder how much interaction there was, even though MG had been stripped (that is fair speculation) of hiring the coach, with Torts being prepped by management? Its only fair to mention that...but could also support the growing theories about Franks meddling.
MG played ball with ownership on this one experiment, and he regrets it.
-amended edit-
*I hated Iron Mike...and what he does NOT bring to teams. Always the same pattern.
But to balance your addition on a positive sense; look at what Murray did with the Sens a few seasons back. There were so many calls for him to dismantle the team after the Heatley/Cloutsen debacle. But he stayed the course and made a few minor changes and it served them well.*
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Unbelievable. MG pointing fingers at everyone but himself.
You might want to listen to the interview.
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I think it's a shot across the bow of ownership by saying it's either me or Torts. Gillis is very conservative and never very forthcoming in his interviews, so to bring this to a head at this point in the season and in such a public way is very surprising and seems to be his line in the sand.
Either way, this confirms to me that our sleezbag owners have been too involved with the running of this team, and that Gillis has had his hands tied with various aspects of running the club (ie. hiring Torts, style of play, taking on money in trades...etc.).
In one fell swoop, he's essentially said that he regrets hiring Torts and chasing a different style of play, while at the same time telling ownership that he's going to run this team his way, and if ownership won't let him, then they should fire him.
This is Gillis going all in at the poker table.
Should be interesting.
Absolutely agree. It was really suprising to hear that from MG.
Good on him too. He isnt the perfect GM. But he has been a Hockey guy all of his life, and it must have been frustrating to have to acquiese to ownership in the last off season and live with it thruout the current one.
I prefer this real drama than the one created by many last season with Lu.
Like sands through the hourglass, these are the off-season days of our lives.
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Regarding the question about a disconnect in style between Tortorella and players - probably the most interesting part of the interview.
To be "addressed systematically and completely and turned around so that we can build the style of play and team that we want."
Suggests that people will have to comply with how Gillis sees the team moving forward and gives the analogy to AV changing his systems style when he was retained by Gilis.
This a relief for me, is a relief in a couple senses.
First, I think there is not only a disconnect between Tortorella's systems, but perhaps even a disconnect within those systems.
I like his aggressive forecheck, but to then pair that with a collapsing zone... and then expect to generate much pressure and transition offence coming out of that... I really want to see that change. The lack of a being in a position to play a transition game has also dictated far, far too much dump and chase (or dump and change), and the problems snowball.
It sounds like Gillis is resolved to be more assertive, or not likely to return. I doubt that he has authored the majority of the transition over the past year, and it sounds like he may be in a bit of a position to say 'I told you so' in a constructive criticism sense - hopefully he will have the reigns to get this team back to playing the style of hockey they did under AV. The irony as far as I'm concerned is that the team applies significantly less puck pressure than they did over the back 2/3 of the ice under AV, and the results are showing. Tortorella appears to have rolled with his own plan - if the on-ice product were more the result of committee decision making, it would be hard to imagine the 3 line approach (in a gruelling schedule, regardless of excuses about 'depth'), the debatable systems effectiveness, Edler as shutdown defender (when you had 4 better defensive blueliners), the Sedins killing more penalties than Hansen, etc.
"I want us to play upbeat puck possession, move the puck quickly, force teams into mistakes, high transition game."
Made a lot of enemies playing that way but that's why they had success.
Let's make those enemies angrier all over again.
Back to it, with a retooled team. Guys like Kassian and Matthias (to start) - big guys who skate very well, can play a 200ft game and chip in offensively. Jensen is another key transitional talent. Hopefully Horvat, Gaunce, et al can continue to develop as projected.
I think it will be quite an exciting summer with the cap space and the youth.
Time to let the boss run the show.
Mentioned those same points in the thread about the user reviewing the Canucks past playoff runs. Though most of everyone in that thread seemed to feel that Hoff is the missing key player for the team right now. And he is not.
Aside from the very unlucky injuries that seem to dog this team, i do not think Torts had enough time to really assess what made the team successful. And it is abundantly clear that MG acquiesced to ownership and Torts about the style of play. Torts had time to suss out what was wrong in his coaching eyes to actually see if he can implement his style. He also failed to do his homework on what the Western teams are all about now. And basically they are larger versions of those earlier Gillis rosters. Identical styles of play
Many people have just crapped on MG, and some of it deserved. But i feel for the guy when i watched some of those games. I bet the Irish in him wanted to punch Frank in the meddling face when the team was just not playing the way he wanted. I know i felt that way seeing all that talent was slowly emasculated offensively by a coach that has always poorly adapted.
The coach is only partly to blame. But he does need to change. As does the roster. Not a wholesale change whatsoever. Just a few tweaks here and there and start meshing in the deserving young guns to be mentored.
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The problem with the Canucks is exactly the opposite: It's not the Sedins that need to do more, its everyone else. It's the Booths and the Higgins and the Kassians that need to contribute more. Kesler hopefully will be healthy and help complete a top 6 group.
You look at championship teams, everyone contributes and the 4th line guys are just as important as the top scorers. That's what the Canucks need to start doing.
How do guys like the OP miss this important point?!
Well said.
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Yeah!! Let's subtract offense!!
Let's totally destroy any semblance of Vancouver Canuck team culture by having the best and developed players in its history walk.
Terrible thread.
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I hate Linden fans. Most unrealistic people ever. The guy was a decent player and great off the ice. Nothing more.
No kidding. So sick of it. There are always 2-5 of these threads every season.
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Dustin Brown
Underrated.
Jeff Carter?
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Anyone oppose of giving Mike Johnston a second try as an assistant?
Id be into it.
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The only justifiable response to a Ruff hiring would be to throw things.
I'm still firmly in the Stevens camp. The Stevens detractors point to his bad season in Philly, but fail to recognize that the results were because he had an absolutely putrid lineup to work with.
I'd be okay with Torts too. I was originally against Torts but after some research I'm coming around to the idea. The super-defensive system he employed in New York was him getting the most out of his roster. I think he'd play a more open game here because he'll have a better and deeper pool of offensive talent to work with (2 20+ goal scorers on the third line in Higgins and Hansen, something he didn't have in New York). Having said that, I can also see a Torts hiring going south very quickly if he resorts to yelling and the players tune him out.
The Steven's detractors always point to this...but its widely known that he had a crippled roster and a management team in flux. Very unlucky and an unfair portrayal.
Torts is like any good coach, if management supplies a compliment of players that fits the coaching philosophy. Great. Holes up and down the line up? Then its all a defensive posture. All in the name of winning.
Im bugged that some folks think Torts teams are clumsily defensive. Its not true. Same ridiculous, and unfair knock against AV.
He can implement different styles if the correct players are there.
[Report] Mike Gillis Fired
in Canucks Talk
Posted
Message me.
Drinking is my only solace with all this unecessary drama.