kilgore

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Everything posted by kilgore

  1. As Heffy said, this is different, we are not out. But also, to address that point, no player, or coach, much to fans concerns about where the team lands on draft day, will "pull up" on the last days of the season even IF their team is mathematically out. Potentially cutting into their own personal seasonal stats when renegotiating a new contract, all for the sake of the team maybe drafting higher, and maybe getting a young star that will then replace them with a cheaper ELC. Yeah, I admit it was a strawman argument, to make a point. There obviously has to come a time when a team "goes for it". The thing is, the Canucks management has made if very clear they are. I was one of the harshest critics of Benning not using his first years, especially after the 2015 first round loss, to start to actually rebuild the team then. But fortune favoured JB despite his mismanagement with the picks he (and Brackett) made. The final "straw" was trading our #1 pick for Miller, which also worked out great for JB and the team. If we were "rebuilding on the fly" before, clearly we now were a new upcoming contender, even if young and inexperienced. So I as a fan, I can only also jump on board and go all in. It is what it is. No use in going backwards now, to a place we should have been in 2015 or 2016. That ship has sailed. For better or worse. Now if we do fail to beat the Wild, then yeah, there is a silver lining. But for me, I'm not going there yet. As a long time Canucks fan, I have developed a well oiled pivot in my brain. Well used. If we are still playing, and in the playoffs ( and by all intents it starts with Minny ) I lock onto that. If we fail, I can swing around intermediately to looking at the position we have or can get to and adding new blood.
  2. That is absolute garbage. Hey, if we "win" a shot at the #1 every year by missing the playoffs into perpetuity, we could be winners every season! Why stop at this seasons draft? I seriously cannot understand how any Canuck fan, any hockey fan for that matter, could even enjoy watching a game with that in the back of their mind
  3. Okay I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don’t REALLY mean that you’d rather the Canucks don’t win the Cup this year. You did add the word hypothetically at the end. Would it be way less fun? Certainly. Without a doubt. Not hearing the roar of the crowd when the last horn sounds to end the deciding win over the Boston Bruins. Crowding the streets to CELEBRATE not riot. Hugging your friends, and the cute girl stranger walking by. But if we are the winner we will have had to win 5 freakin rounds! In an interrupted COVID stressed environment. As someone else said, any asterisk besides this season’s winner should indicate the toughest Cup win ever, especially if won by any of the play in teams. What if Rogers arena had some structural problem, a terrorist scare, a natural disaster blocking access, or any other event that results in an empty arena and empty streets? Would it then also be not worth the win? It’s just a weird year. For everyone, everywhere. A Cup win is a Cup win, weird or not.
  4. So taking care of your citizens health care is “spineless” Good to know
  5. If Ontario is starting to get a handle on this virus, doesn't it make a whole lotta sense to just keep it all in Canada? Vancouver (or Edmonton) and Toronto? The US is a sh..show with the denial and utter lack of leadership, Where re-opening up certain States is more of a political act than a health and safety action. Add to that the protests, and the Corona Virus is not going away soon down there. Does that just make too much sense, or Is it a case that Bettman simply thinks it wouldn't be good for the game in the US to have an all Canadian cities format? I don't see how that would be make much difference with no fans, and teams playing away from their home towns anyways and it is strictly a TV event. Once everyone passes the 14 day quarantine here, there would be no cross border travel at all. In a country that at least has some kind of consistent coordinated plan.
  6. I'm sure you do Baggins, I'm sure you do. But maybe take off the One Ring to Rule the All, Bilbo. You are assuming everything is done because of logic. Was Trevor losing his job "logic"? Or a difference in opinion between two individuals as to what was logical for the team. Do owners and GMs never make wrong decisions, or decisions based on personal grudges? As you said, "Who knows?" I'm done with this discussion.
  7. Yes, it should be the NHLs decision. I was under the impression it was Dr. Henry shutting it down. If Joe Blow and his wife Jane, and their kids Judd and Josie can enter the country from somewhere else, quarantine for 2 weeks, and go out and "enjoy BC", coming into contact with other BC residents after that, and that is perfectly fine with health officials, what is it about NHL families that make them more dangerous than other families to BC residents or the "curve"? And players will be tested, so its not like they will catch it from daddy and then go out. The risk is bringing it in and making daddy sick, but that risk is pretty low. As far as a threat to BC residents, why would those families be treated so much more stringently than other visitors? When its clear players, and families want a place to be able to have some recreation outside the bubble for their own mental health, and that is a "chief point of negotiation" the NHL is pretty strict I guess
  8. Last I heard, after Horgan went on air to say how hockey player's families could come and "enjoy BC" once they had done the 14 day quarantine, Bonnie Henry came on the next day to contradict this and say they would all stay in the bubble. Unless things have softened now. Someone explain why, if any foreign, or even BC arriving, family, including from the US of course, can come to visit BC, and isolate for 14 days, and then be able to "enjoy BC", how is it any different, or dangerous, for the families of hockey players to do the same? I don't get it. Shouldn't it be up to the NHL, if they want to take that risk?....that a family member may bring back the virus into the bubble (which is a pretty remote chance based on stats, as long as they practised SD) They would have a lot to lose, so if they are okay with that then......? Why from a strictly pubic health point of view, are the NHL families, following the same rules as every other visitor, MORE of a threat to BC residents than other visitors who clear isolation and go out into the public?
  9. “Larionov was obstinate. Unwilling to pay a cent of his earnings to Russian hockey interests.” To me, that implies the Canucks management had made clear it would be coming out of any future contract. And then there's that pesky "obstinate" Russian attitude they couldn't abide by. But that is an assumption, based on that quote. I at least admit assumptions. Your arguments are chalk full of assumptions the other way, and also lacking evidence. It is in fact, the only thing we can do based on the scant reports we can glean out of these past events. You pull out Yashin's name time and time again to make your point about, what?...Russians = bad? What about Larionov himself? He is regarded very highly around the league not only as a player who earned his contracts, but as a good ambassador for the game in Russia. Many other "good" Russians including some Russian captain who won a Cup two seasons ago. Just like, to get back to the topic at hand, I make assumptions, based on looking at all the past behaviour of the team etc,, that the decision to let Carter go was not based on racism. Some on here are adamantly assuming it WAS a racist decision. We all make assumptions. Which is why I tried to throw you a bone to say the truth may be somewhere in between our points of view. Why not just leave it there?
  10. Not "slave masters" just unwilling to cut them any slack or attempting to understand where they were coming from. It seems pretty odd that Larionov would be so mad about something that cost him nothing. Enough that he would leave the NHL just to end it for good on his own. I don't buy that. That book I quoted from, 100 Things Canuck Fans should Know and Do Before they Die, by Mike Halford, Thomas Drance, and John Garrett, also says that after the $150,000 was agreed on, "“Larionov was obstinate. Unwilling to pay a cent of his earnings to Russian hockey interests.” That implied whatever was settled would still come out of his contract. That has never been clear. And why did they not re-sign him after only one year away? It was either they held a petty grudge, and old boys club style, wanted to show him he can't disobey them, or they were terrible judges of hockey talent. Which was it? His production was increasing each season with us. Either one of those reasons does not look good on them considering how his career kept rising after. I still wonder to this day if he may have been that one more piece of the puzzle to have put us over the top in 94. I admit that Russian born players may be more of a handful. But I contend that is because of the culture they were immersed in growing up. A Russian may never truly trust or respect any authority figure, including his own hockey club employers. One either thinks its worth that price to be extra patient and accommodating to players from there,.... or one thinks there is no room for that kind favouritism or deference and every player, no matter where they come from, must be able to fall in lock step with any NA born player, who are more socially conditioned to know in our culture when to fight and when to suck up. Personally I think its worth it to have some allowances towards some players if that is the way to build the best team possible. To win a Cup. Which is all I care about as a fan. The Bulls needed Rodman too. Which is why I'm worried about Tryamkin. Jim is old school, and some are already questioning why Jim has not signed Nikita yet. He's been available for a month now or so. He'd not take much off the cap. I love Stecher but I'd take the Tram any day. I hope we're not going to make the same mistake all over again. Maybe you've already put him in the too-much-trouble Russian category. I could easily say you are also are letting your own biases "shine". You also are assuming things. But I'll concede to say the truth may be somewhere in between. cheers.
  11. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/wholl-be-linemate-for-sedins/article18173284/ We don't disagree much about Carter. I was only taking his word for what he was offered. Hard to get a clear number. This G & M article at the time said the Canucks offered him $3.6 over two years. Which seems still a bit cheap considering he was the team leader in goals the previous season with a career high 33, but not too bad considering it was a two year deal. Still you think they could have offered him at least 4 for 2. But I agree that it was not about race. They thought the Sedins could just pass it to Bulis for cheaper.
  12. I contend, that Lariionov and his agent contended, that any new contract signed with the Canucks, being the cheapwads they were, they would find a way to recoup that $150,000 out of any new contract offer. The Canucks could have agreed with Igor's principles, and pulled their $150,000 offer, and promised to try and re-sign him when he returned. That was I believe what the author was getting at when he said it was all over a measly $150,000. Igor didn't want them to pay it. But if you don't think the act of betraying the old boy system of players falling in line, especially back when they had less wages and power, by Igor not abiding by what his boss wanted him to do did not affect how they viewed him after that, I've got a bog in Surrey to sell you. Why were they seemingly willing to contract him then, by agreeing to pay the Ruskies the $150,000, but afterwards, suddenly they didn't want him anymore? Didn't even make an offer when he was being shopped from San Jose. Detroit picked him up. Probably the bridges were burned to a crisp by then Of course it was partly their lack of hockey talent evaluation ability to appreciate what he could do on the ice as well, which put the nail in the coffin.
  13. https://books.google.ca/books?id=WRpSDgAAQBAJ&pg=PT133&lpg=PT133&dq=larionov+played+swiss+league+russian+federation&source=bl&ots=krOI1wLjnM&sig=ACfU3U3bfi4IeZ7PXt2w2461-w7w7Dgj7w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiex8CovYTqAhVBop4KHZeJCPMQ6AEwC3oECA8QAQ#v=onepage&q=larionov played swiss league russian federation&f=false Canuck management wanted to allow the Russian Fed to extort some of Larionov's contract money, and ended up settling on $150,000. But Igor was too principled for that, and didn't want any more money going to the Fed, so he acted on his own, went to the Swiss league, as the only legal way to cut ties with the Fed for good. Canuck management did not take this kindly, so when he was available again after his stint in Europe, even though they had first dibs, as long as they gave him waiver protection, they turned their noses up, and San Jose picked him up. Combined with that, they totally undervalued him. Yet another dumb move, especially if you think about how he many have influenced and calmed Pavel's antagonism towards management, and helped mentor him here. Instead he played in San Jose where he was re-united with Sergei Makarov and helped the Sharks to a record 59-point improvement over the previous season. The Sharks then upset the heavily favoured Detroit Red Wings in the opening round of the playoffs. The Canucks sure could have used him in that year in the 94 playoffs. I'm sure the way Canucks dismissed Larionov also had an indirect negative impact on Pavel. “As such, the Canucks lost one of the most entertaining and unique centermen ever to play the sport over a measly $150,000”
  14. Settling the lockout monies after three years already was probably in the interests of both parties. But it doesn't mean Pavel wasn't owed that other .7 million, or that he should have been happy with that. Obviously if Canucks settled, they thought there was some merit in his claim. But more importantly to the argument, and how it relates to treatment of Carter, is that Pavel was led to believe he was promised it, and that slight was just another one to add to the pile. For the most part, by then, most players, and star players for sure, were paid in American dollars. I don't know how you can think that wasn't the case. You may find one or two instances where this wasn't the case, but that was the accepted practice by then. And you are ASSUMING that Pavel never asked for yankee dollars. Maybe it was agreed on verbally for American dollars, and on the day of signing, management thought they could pull a fast one, change the parameters, hoping Pavel would just take it. You don't know, know one knows. I would not put it past them trying this based on other behaviour. Gillis may have declined to bare all, not because Pavel didn't have a case, but because Mike is still looking to get another job in the NHL. Not a good look to be slagging the management of one of the franchises you worked for. I mentioned my brother in law. My eyes were really opened up getting to know him. He grew up in the soviet satellite country at the time of Kyrgyzstan. No he didn't know Borat. But everyone from that area has a built in suspicion that everyone is trying to cheat them some way. They are used to that. Because it was true there. So I can see that when even small slights start adding up, having to pay the Russian Fed with is own money, McPhee scoffing at his first 60 goal season as a bid to not pay him what he was worth sooner, etc. that article details it all. I agree he should have made more of an effort to be less demanding, and go with the flow, but that was his personality. Love him or hate him. He was a cynical bastard I'll grant you that. I think they screwed things up with Larionov as well by being ignorant of the Russian mentality. And I'm afraid they will also screw things up with Tryamkin. IMO North American pro hockey teams need to try and be a bit accommodating to the kind of transition from that East European culture, some more than others. I got an answer for every question. I can go all night. So lets just leave it as agree to disagree, as you said. ........... Just briefly on Carter. If you have a link to that 2 million dollar offer......because he claimed it was only about a $100,000 raise on the $1 mill. If he was lying, I'm sure someone in Canucks management would have corrected that no? But maybe they seriously just didn't think they had the cap space, again...who knows? But it was low ball. I just think it had nothing to do with race. Wasn't Kevin Weekes going to be our "goalie of the future" at one point? Bottom line, if a player is talented enough, they will find a way into a lineup. Winning is the only thing that matters for owners.
  15. Pretty weak excuse making. - They took three fricken years to settle with him on the lockout money - No one is saying there was a CBA type legal agreement to pay in US funds, and maybe his agent did not do his due diligence, but its a stretch to think Bure's camp would not assume he would be paid in US funds as Mogilny and Fedorov and even most other NHL players were being paid with. And stars were ALWAYS paid in US funds. - Its quite an assumption to think Gillis's statement about nobody knowing the whole story would be bad for his former client, maybe it would have been worse for management. You can try and throw out a few superfluous maybes and conspiracy theories into the equation, but if you look at the overall treatment through his whole time here, add everything up, it does not look good on management. Sure Bure may have been overly sensitive. I have a brother-in-law that grew up in the old completely corrupted Soviet system, he was, and even now is, very suspicious and cynical of any decisions by bureaucracies that have some kind of authority over even small aspects of his life. But no amount of excuse making, even if you make a few small counterpoints, can erase how they treated Pavel Bure on the whole.
  16. I was only stating that JB understands, more than any predecessor, that you have to jump in and overpay FA to get the ones you want. I actually agree with your premise that JB screwed the pooch in WHO he applied that tactic on, and WHEN he did it. If you've read any of my past posts I'm one of the most critical on JB's early choices to trade away picks and prospects for overpriced veterans, most past their primes. For all his prowess on draft day, he's hitting about .150 on FAs. I was only making that first point to compare with previous management's miserly behaviour.
  17. Here's an good article that summarizes the tainted history of Canuck management towards Pavel. https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/from-the-archives-why-pavel-bure-wanted-out-of-vancouver “I specifically asked Ron to put in (the new deal) that I was to get paid (if there was a lockout) because I thought there probably would be one. And the contract is pretty clear that I was to get paid. “But they refused.” Bure remained out of training camp after the lockout for five days, but was talked into going back after the Canucks agreed to negotiate. Quinn claimed he was told by the league not to pay guaranteed contracts until it was settled for all NHL players. But the issue dragged on and on and Bure became increasingly steamed. “I didn’t want to sue the team. I didn’t think it would be proper to sue the team you were playing for.” Bure was owed $1.7 million US under the terms of the deal, but after agent Mike Gillis became his agent, he managed to get $1 million of it paid. “I finally got part of that money three years later.” Thanks for making me research again, I forgot about yet another cheap shot they fired at him when they ambushed him with a Canadian dollar contract, when every other star player was getting US dollars. After 17 months of negotiation, a five-year, $14.7-million contract — almost identical to the ones Sergei Fedorov and Alex Mogilny were signing in Detroit and Buffalo at the time — was agreed upon. Or at least Bure thought. When he sat down to sign it, he found the Canucks had put everything in Canadian funds when in fact Fedorov and Mogilny were getting U.S. funds. No NHL star ever signs a Canadian-funds deal and the Canucks knew this. Yet one more cheep shot which started when he first arrived as was made to pay out 50,000 out of his own pocket to the Russian Fed. before he ever earned a nickel. Was Pavel, as a new Soviet immigrant, coming from that kind of corrupt society overly suspicious, and cautious ...., perhaps. Did he maybe react too quick and aggressive to any perception of being slighted? Ask Churla. But that was no excuse for the pity poor way management handled him from the get go. But keep on believing the party line if it makes you feel better about your Vancouver Canucks.
  18. I think it was wrong not to offer him more, but IMO its just that the Canucks were cheap SOB's. Until Benning, who realizes you have to even overpay sometimes. They've low balled more players than Anson Carter through the years. Giving Bure grief when they didn't have to, holding out on his legally owed lock-out money, telling him his first 60 goals season was a fluke in order not to sign him to what he deserved sooner. That's when the trade demands started, completely could have been avoided. Other examples in the organization. Kinda sad to be using the present day uprising against average black's violent mistreatment, for a millionaire to be complaining about not making more millions for similar reasons about racial discrimination even though he has no proof.
  19. This is the main reason I detest them. Now we have two radio stations with post game analysis, so its not too bad, but that was a low blow when they arbitrarily just cut local voices from post game TV analysis, and fed it all through the Center Of The Universe. in Toronto. Where, they couldn't/can't get through any post Canuck game talk fast enough, or be less knowledgeable or interested in the team, in order to get back to their precious Leafs to talk about a game that happened a day or two earlier. Yet another reason SN650 is doing so poorly locally. SN at head office in Toronto are too stupid to realize how connecting pre and post game coverage to local personalities might actually make listeners appreciate them, and respect them more and transition those fans back to the radio station of the same name.
  20. So what is the definition of "fundraising"? I thought it was to raise funds, am I crazy? Spending nearly $800,000 to raise $5000 ? Wow.
  21. Both stations have their good points and bad points. Mostly though I like that there are two stations I can flip between. But if I had to pick one, its 1040 by a landslide. I can totally see why they are so far ahead. 1040 realize that although with sports itself, stats and scores and serious analysis is of utmost importance, sports talk radio is another animal. And as Taylor says all the time, entertainment is a key element. It keeps listeners listening for those times between score updates, or when guest analysts are on, or hosts themselves do an editorial. I always enjoyed the Kurtenbloggers when they had their old show once a week, even before they had the NBC gig. Why?...Because they sounded just like how I would envision me and my mates sitting around having a pint talking about the Canucks, and joking around at the same time. Going off on silly tangents.. Just reciting stats and dry analysis may be great for a hard core minority, but most listeners want a more human experience. 1040 saw that in them before 650. Some hosts can keep more to serious discussion, if they are very knowledgeable and smart. And that works too if they are that capable. The only one in Vancouver that meets that bar for me is Scott Rintoul @ 650. The other hosts there seem to be trying way too hard to be "entertaining" like their more popular competition. But they can't compete with the personalities on 1040. 650 has hosts that, as someone else said, all sound that same, excluding Rintoul. And even when they land an established voice like Rick Dhaliwal, they treat him like a fool and he's now back in the 1040 fold who know how to rib him but also respect his own reports based on his long crafted relationships with important sources. Big loss for 650, and yet another amateur move. Along with long time Vancouver voices like Donny and the Moj, 1040 has such a head start with long held relationships with important hockey pundits that are regulars. I think that Mr. TSN 1040 and all the hosts, took it as a personal challenge to stay on top after they lost the rights to broadcast Canuck games, to STILL be the choice for most to get their Canucks fix. And to make SN pissed and the 650 executives hate them. It worked.
  22. If folks believe that Brackett as head of scouting would actually even think of demanding ultimate final say in top round picks you are dreaming. I call BS on Bennings insinuation. (Benning never actually claimed that, only reiterated the chain of command) But it sure helped Benning smell better. It set up a great straw man for the Benning Bros to come to his defense. No organization, especially this skeleton, top heavy organization, and especially one with such an experienced scout/ GM, would not let the GM have final say on major drafting decisions. No way would Brackett have asked for that. I suspect Brackett did want more authority and to hire his own people and probably deserved it. I think it was more a power struggle between him and Weisbrod. And Weisbrod, was the more compliant yes man, doesn't matter how much he made a mess of Calgary. I agree with MacIntyre, this smells like an old hockey bag. Gilman, Trevor, Brackett and other good people hit the road. Meanwhile even Delorme, the architect of one of the worst team draft histories in the league, is hanging on. I don't know why more aren't more concerned with the lack of talented hockey voices in this executive. And the way alternate opinions are not tolerated "Only the best people"