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#31 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 03:17 PM

You're telling me!!

'95... nope. '97... nope. 2001????????? My god, how did they lose??? Well, I know how they lost, just hurts.

IMO, it all went downhill from the ending of the Kingdome. Players wanted out because they couldn't hit the long ball as easy as the they could in the Dome. The team had to transform from a heavy-hitting powerhouse to a small-ball club. Which makes me wonder why high profile pitchers don't wanna sign here.... weird.

Maybe the weather in the NW has an affect on their decisions???

Exhibit A: Ken Griffey Jr. That being said, I went to the third Reds-Mariners game last year and he hit two home runs. Safeco is a much more pleasant place to watch a game. I would think that the natural surface would make the players whine less about getting hurt in the field too. I find the trains to be a bit annoying sometimes, particularly if I have seats on the right field side or in the outfield. Minor gripe though.

That 2001 team should have gone all the way.
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#32 MarinerIslanderSean

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 04:19 PM

Mariners sign Brad Wilkerson. One year contract, money undisclosed.

http://seattle.marin...c...sp&c_id=sea


There's your starting right fielder if the Bedard trade goes down (and maybe still if it doesn't).

EDIT: Wilkerson is a lefty bat with moderate power, something the Mariners have been needing for awhile.

Edited by MarinerIslanderSean, 31 January 2008 - 04:23 PM.

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#33 Raoul Duke

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 04:40 PM

Mariners sign Brad Wilkerson. One year contract, money undisclosed.

http://seattle.marin...c...sp&c_id=sea
There's your starting right fielder if the Bedard trade goes down (and maybe still if it doesn't).

EDIT: Wilkerson is a lefty bat with moderate power, something the Mariners have been needing for awhile.


Great signing. And IMO.... Bedard will be a Mariner.
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#34 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 04:45 PM

Mariners sign Brad Wilkerson. One year contract, money undisclosed.

http://seattle.marin...c...sp&c_id=sea
There's your starting right fielder if the Bedard trade goes down (and maybe still if it doesn't).

EDIT: Wilkerson is a lefty bat with moderate power, something the Mariners have been needing for awhile.

Strikes out WAY too much though.
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#35 Raoul Duke

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 04:52 PM

Strikes out WAY too much though.


Not as much as Suckson.
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#36 Zeba77

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 04:56 PM

Mariners sign Brad Wilkerson. One year contract, money undisclosed.

http://seattle.marin...c...sp&c_id=sea
There's your starting right fielder if the Bedard trade goes down (and maybe still if it doesn't).

EDIT: Wilkerson is a lefty bat with moderate power, something the Mariners have been needing for awhile.

great move
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#37 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 04:59 PM

Not as much as Suckson.

You know that I hate Sexson as much as you do, so it pains me to write the following, but:

2007 Season:

B Wilkerson TEX AB: 338 SO: 107 = 1 K/3.16 AB
R Sexson SEA AB: 434 SO: 100 = 1 K/4.34 AB


Sorry.
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#38 The Alchemist

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 05:20 PM

Man the Twins got ripped off, if the rumours about what the Yanks and BoSox were offering are even remotely true. I have no idea why they traded Santana to the Mets. How do you trade the best pitcher in baseball and not even get the other teamís best prospect? I guess they really wanted him out of the AL.

The Bedard trade is supposedly being held up because the O's are making a last ditch effort to sign him long term, I don't see that happening though.

My bold prediction for the year is Geovany Soto winning NL ROY, you heard it here first.
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#39 Raoul Duke

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 05:52 PM

You know that I hate Sexson as much as you do, so it pains me to write the following, but:

2007 Season:

B Wilkerson TEX AB: 338 SO: 107 = 1 K/3.16 AB
R Sexson SEA AB: 434 SO: 100 = 1 K/4.34 AB
Sorry.


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

Heh heh. I just assumed. Well that's no good, especially since we're the least patient team in the league.
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#40 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 05:52 PM

Man the Twins got ripped off, if the rumours about what the Yanks and BoSox were offering are even remotely true. I have no idea why they traded Santana to the Mets. How do you trade the best pitcher in baseball and not even get the other teamís best prospect? I guess they really wanted him out of the AL.

The Bedard trade is supposedly being held up because the O's are making a last ditch effort to sign him long term, I don't see that happening though.

My bold prediction for the year is Geovany Soto winning NL ROY, you heard it here first.

If Fernando Martinez is the Mets' best prospect, then Humber, Gomez, Guerra and Mulvey are probably 2-5. I don't think the Twins got such a bad deal since they could never have afforded what Santana wanted anyways.

I don't think he's the best pitcher in baseball either, though he's certainly top 5. I'd rather have Peavy, Beckett and Bedard personally. Maybe Halladay, Verlander and Hamels too, though the last two would partly be because of their young age.
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#41 Raoul Duke

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 05:57 PM

I dunno, Santana's absolutely dominating.

I like Peavy or even Brandon Webb at the top. Bedard looks like he's gonna be something else too. And forgot about Hamels.

What about this Jeff Francis kid?? He any good??? :lol:
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#42 Captain Bob

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 05:59 PM

Will the Bule Jays ever make the post season again?
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#43 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 06:05 PM

I dunno, Santana's absolutely dominating.

I like Peavy or even Brandon Webb at the top. Bedard looks like he's gonna be something else too. And forgot about Hamels.

What about this Jeff Francis kid?? He any good??? :lol:

I like Francis, but he was outclassed by the Red Sox in the Series last year, whereas Beckett was absolutely sublime all last year and in the playoffs.

Verlander has very comparable numbers, but is four years younger. I think I'd take Verlander's fastball, but Santana's change up (the best in baseball).

The Halladay comment might be me living in the past a little bit.
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#44 Zeba77

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 07:49 PM

Will the Bule Jays ever make the post season again?

not unless the yank or soxs tank a season
and the jays do good

Edited by Zeba77, 06 June 2008 - 07:59 PM.

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#45 The Alchemist

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 08:11 PM

If Fernando Martinez is the Mets' best prospect, then Humber, Gomez, Guerra and Mulvey are probably 2-5. I don't think the Twins got such a bad deal since they could never have afforded what Santana wanted anyways.

I don't think he's the best pitcher in baseball either, though he's certainly top 5. I'd rather have Peavy, Beckett and Bedard personally. Maybe Halladay, Verlander and Hamels too, though the last two would partly be because of their young age.


Humber and Mulvey are back end rotation guys at best, Gomez lacks plate discipline and Guerra projects as a number 3 guy, maybe a number 2 if everything goes right for him. Hughes alone (if thats really what the Yanks were offering) almost beats that package.

You really don't think Santana is the best pitcher in baseball? In his 4 full seasons as a starter, he has got 2 Cy Youngs (should be 3). Even his worst year, which was last year is better than any year Verlander has had.

Edited by TheGreatest, 31 January 2008 - 08:12 PM.

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#46 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:40 AM

Humber and Mulvey are back end rotation guys at best, Gomez lacks plate discipline and Guerra projects as a number 3 guy, maybe a number 2 if everything goes right for him. Hughes alone (if thats really what the Yanks were offering) almost beats that package.

You really don't think Santana is the best pitcher in baseball? In his 4 full seasons as a starter, he has got 2 Cy Youngs (should be 3). Even his worst year, which was last year is better than any year Verlander has had.

Keep in mind you're talking about young players. Humber went 3rd (or 4th, can't remember off hand) overall three years ago no? Admittedly, Hughes has passed him in terms of development, but I don't really think the Mets or Twins should write him off just yet. Gomez strikes out a lot, sure, but he's also only 22 years old. I was under the impression that the deal got held up because the Yankees refused to part with Hughes, but I might be wrong about that.

I said I'd probably take Verlander right now because he's younger and cheaper, and Hamels because of his huge potential and youth. I guess I just see both of those guys as being on the upswing with the potential to pass Santana, but I suppose neither has done it yet. I'd also handicap Santana a little bit because he's been less good in the playoffs, which is why I'd give a bit of an edge to Josh Beckett (who really could have won the Cy Young and World Series MVPs last year, though Sabathia and Lowell weren't undeserving). I concede that Santana probably could've gotten it over Colon in 2005.

I believe that Jake Peavy is the best pitcher in baseball, at judging from last year. He was pretty much the best in every category (except I think Bedard actually had the best SO/IP ratio), and he was far less susceptible to the long ball. Only two guys in the entire league gave up more jacks than Santana. I know that isn't a sabermetric stat, but it still holds some weight for me.

I suppose if money, age, attitude, playoff history, potential, etc were no object, my list (and I've thought about this more this time than the previous post) would be:
1. Peavy
2. Beckett
3. Santana
4. Bedard
5. Webb/Young/Sabathia/Hamels

Couldn't pick between those guys for number 5. You know who isn't on my list though? Carlos Zambrano. Not meant as an insult to the Cubs, I just think that guy, like Santana, has a bit of an inflated impression of his own value, and the attitude hurts both in my eyes.
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#47 Raoul Duke

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 01:02 AM

Zambrano can eat my bag.
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#48 Lucic17

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 01:10 AM

Jays will be okay IF they GET RID of Ricchardi. I HATE that guy.
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#49 Raoul Duke

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 01:15 AM

Jays will be okay IF they GET RID of Ricchardi. I HATE that guy.


Unfortunately, they play in the same division as the two most annoying franchises in all of sports. I can't see them making the playoffs anytime soon, with or without JP.
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#50 The Alchemist

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 01:58 AM

Keep in mind you're talking about young players. Humber went 3rd (or 4th, can't remember off hand) overall three years ago no? Admittedly, Hughes has passed him in terms of development, but I don't really think the Mets or Twins should write him off just yet. Gomez strikes out a lot, sure, but he's also only 22 years old. I was under the impression that the deal got held up because the Yankees refused to part with Hughes, but I might be wrong about that.

I said I'd probably take Verlander right now because he's younger and cheaper, and Hamels because of his huge potential and youth. I guess I just see both of those guys as being on the upswing with the potential to pass Santana, but I suppose neither has done it yet. I'd also handicap Santana a little bit because he's been less good in the playoffs, which is why I'd give a bit of an edge to Josh Beckett (who really could have won the Cy Young and World Series MVPs last year, though Sabathia and Lowell weren't undeserving). I concede that Santana probably could've gotten it over Colon in 2005.

I believe that Jake Peavy is the best pitcher in baseball, at judging from last year. He was pretty much the best in every category (except I think Bedard actually had the best SO/IP ratio), and he was far less susceptible to the long ball. Only two guys in the entire league gave up more jacks than Santana. I know that isn't a sabermetric stat, but it still holds some weight for me.

I suppose if money, age, attitude, playoff history, potential, etc were no object, my list (and I've thought about this more this time than the previous post) would be:
1. Peavy
2. Beckett
3. Santana
4. Bedard
5. Webb/Young/Sabathia/Hamels

Couldn't pick between those guys for number 5. You know who isn't on my list though? Carlos Zambrano. Not meant as an insult to the Cubs, I just think that guy, like Santana, has a bit of an inflated impression of his own value, and the attitude hurts both in my eyes.


I'd agree that with you in taking Verlander and Hamels over Santana, because they're younger, cheaper and have a lot of potential, I just don't think that they have quite got to his level yet but they'll get there and maybe surpass him in a short while.

I can definitely see a case being made for Peavy being the best pitcher in baseball, him and Santana would be my top 2 for sure.

The problem with Zambrano is all mental, he has the stuff to be a top 3 pitcher in baseball, he just needs to learn how to concentrate and keep his cool. He gets excited, overthrows, and leaves the ball up in the zone. Check out his stats in his last few Opening Day starts, they're not pretty. As for his attitude, he definitely makes some boneheaded statements(referring to himself in 3rd person, predicting 120 wins etc.) but I just can't get myself to dislike the guy. Maybe its the homer in me, but I like seeing him make crazy statements and jump up and down on the mound. Anytime I've seen him say a selfish or immature thing, hes always apologized shortly after.

Zambrano can eat my bag.

You just crossed a line, I can never forgive you for that statement.
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#51 Raoul Duke

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 02:42 AM

You just crossed a line, I can never forgive you for that statement.


Pffffttt... you'll be back. They ALWAYS come back. Ha ha. Muuuuua ha ha ha ha... ha ha.... ha

Besides, you loathe the Pats. We're even steven in my books.
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#52 NucksFanTilIDie

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 03:29 AM

Woo hoo go M's!

Anyone else secretely hope, for a while before he re-signed with the Yankees, that the Mariners would get A-rod back? Maybe i'm just unable to let go of the days he was here, similar to wanting Bertuzzi back with the canucks.

Oh well, hope we get Bedard. We need some pitching, and plus he's Canadian makes the M's even more likeable.
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#53 Zeba77

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 03:30 AM

Woo hoo go M's!

Anyone else secretely hope, for a while before he re-signed with the Yankees, that the Mariners would get A-rod back? Maybe i'm just unable to let go of the days he was here, similar to wanting Bertuzzi back with the canucks.

Oh well, hope we get Bedard. We need some pitching, and plus he's Canadian makes the M's even more likeable.

well if the M's get bedard then they'll have to canadian lefties
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#54 Raoul Duke

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 06:04 AM

well if the M's get bedard then they'll have to canadian lefties


Who is the other Canadian lefty??? I'm really confused here.

They drafted Phillipe Aumont last year but he's a righty. I can't think of any others. And he won't even make the team this year, maybe not even 2009.
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#55 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 11:53 AM

I'd agree that with you in taking Verlander and Hamels over Santana, because they're younger, cheaper and have a lot of potential, I just don't think that they have quite got to his level yet but they'll get there and maybe surpass him in a short while.

I can definitely see a case being made for Peavy being the best pitcher in baseball, him and Santana would be my top 2 for sure.

The problem with Zambrano is all mental, he has the stuff to be a top 3 pitcher in baseball, he just needs to learn how to concentrate and keep his cool. He gets excited, overthrows, and leaves the ball up in the zone. Check out his stats in his last few Opening Day starts, they're not pretty. As for his attitude, he definitely makes some boneheaded statements(referring to himself in 3rd person, predicting 120 wins etc.) but I just can't get myself to dislike the guy. Maybe its the homer in me, but I like seeing him make crazy statements and jump up and down on the mound. Anytime I've seen him say a selfish or immature thing, hes always apologized shortly after.

No love for Josh Beckett eh?

Zambrano is certainly an ace pitcher (and very possibly the best hitting pitcher in the league, though there's one guy on Arizona who's pretty good too, and Dontrelle Willis, whose hitting skills will be largely wasted in Detroit). I just find him to be a bit too confrontational. He did apologize and say all the right things after that scuffle with Michael Barrett last year, and I thought the media did their best to generate news out of that after both of them resolved their issues like adults. However, I also see him as being a little selfish.

I always enjoy watching the development of young pitchers from season to season. Last year guys like Hamels, Verlander, Fausto Carmona, Tom Gorzelanny and even Felix all took giant steps forward. I'm really interested to see how young pitching prospects, like Joba Chamberlain, Homer Bailey, Phil Hughes and Tim Lincecum will do this season. I definitely would've been keen to see Lincecum come to the Jays (allegedly it was a deal involving Alex Rios). I don't catch too many Cubs games, but I'm wondering what the Northsiders think of the prospects for Rich Hill, whether he can be the number 2 guy in Chicago?
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#56 yeti003

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:09 PM

gotta say go jays go

that being said im out here on the east coast and local media has actually started talking ball but they are saying that halladay if he doesnt actually regain his form may be possible trade bait this year

anyone else think its too early to give up on him

side question do you think we could get anyone worth a salt to run the team
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#57 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:25 PM

gotta say go jays go

that being said im out here on the east coast and local media has actually started talking ball but they are saying that halladay if he doesnt actually regain his form may be possible trade bait this year

anyone else think its too early to give up on him

side question do you think we could get anyone worth a salt to run the team

Halladay might be coming off of a down year, but he's still the best pitcher the Jays have at any level. I don't personally see him being traded.

I just wish the Jays could get a full and consistent season out of A.J. Burnett. I truly believe he has the better stuff when he's got command: he throws harder than Halladay, has an ungodly curve, and mixes off speed pitches well. He just doesn't have the mental fortitude of Halladay, or the consistency of command. I got to see Mcgowan pitch live last year once too, and I think he's ready to be the no. 3 guy, with Marcum the early candidate for 4th. It'll be interesting to see who nails down the fifth spot, as I think Chacin has kind of lost his grip on a spot in the rotation.

Actually, I just found this on the topic on the Jays' website:
http://toronto.bluej...c...sp&c_id=tor
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#58 yeti003

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:33 PM

Halladay might be coming off of a down year, but he's still the best pitcher the Jays have at any level. I don't personally see him being traded.

I just wish the Jays could get a full and consistent season out of A.J. Burnett. I truly believe he has the better stuff when he's got command: he throws harder than Halladay, has an ungodly curve, and mixes off speed pitches well. He just doesn't have the mental fortitude of Halladay, or the consistency of command. I got to see Mcgowan pitch live last year once too, and I think he's ready to be the no. 3 guy, with Marcum the early candidate for 4th. It'll be interesting to see who nails down the fifth spot, as I think Chacin has kind of lost his grip on a spot in the rotation.

Actually, I just found this on the topic on the Jays' website:
http://toronto.bluej...c...sp&c_id=tor



thanks for the link
refreshing not to be flamed in here lol may have spoken to soon

i think that if the jays can get good assets for halladay and a player that can play right away i would move him but thats me at least we have third locked up now :lol:
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#59 yeti003

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:35 PM

what do you guys think of LITSCH? I think he can be great if we dont burn him out to early ala woods
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#60 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 01:07 PM

what do you guys think of LITSCH? I think he can be great if we dont burn him out to early ala woods

I don't think Litsch is in huge danger of burning out, because he doesn't throw all that hard. I think if he puts a good training camp together, he'd have the 5th spot locked down. Chacin has a great delivery, and occasionally really impresses me, but he never seems to get late into games, he gets hurt way too much, and a lineup stacked with righthanded hitters is his worse nightmare. I'd be curious to see how he'd look out of the bullpen, though the "situational lefty" spot is already spoken for since Scott Downs got a new contract. I think Casey Janssen is a very respectable pitcher, but I'd rather he be kept as an inning-eating type of guy, who can start in case of injury (which is inevitable for the Jays) or come in as a "long man".

"Woods"? Not sure who you mean?
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