Auditor General: F-35 Funding Frozen; Conservatives Promise Public Review

[Satan's Evil Twin]

That's the thing, for a complex program lasting decades its basically impossible to accurately predict total costs over time, it could even end up being that the highest estimates are too low and thus everyone is technically lying. Traditionally only the initial costs were counted.

The CF-18 initial costs were $80 million per in early '80s dollars, making it far more initially expensive than even the F-35 will be, counting inflation. I wouldn't be surprised if its lifetime costs are higher too, considering the hard use they saw during the Cold War years and the fact that they needed a very expensive refurbishment and upgrade 10 years ago in order to make them last until 2017.

[Electro Rock]

This is about going against a century of accepted practice and counting costs that fall under separate budgets, essentially counting many costs twice. Maybe the CPC could have handled the issue better and got on the same page, but I don't see any willful wrongdoing.

Also, I can't see us getting more than 20 year's use out of the F-35 before its completely obsolete, given the pace of technology, unless maybe Russia and China fall on their faces and aren't able to develop any new military equipment at that time. So that makes counting F-35 costs beyond that point rather moot.

[aliboy]

This is about going against a century of accepted practice and counting costs that fall under separate budgets, essentially counting many costs twice. Maybe the CPC could have handled the issue better and got on the same page, but I don't see any willful wrongdoing.

Also, I can't see us getting more than 20 year's use out of the F-35 before its completely obsolete, given the pace of technology, unless maybe Russia and China fall on their faces and aren't able to develop any new military equipment at that time. So that makes counting F-35 costs beyond that point rather moot.

[Satan's Evil Twin]

This is about going against a century of accepted practice and counting costs that fall under separate budgets, essentially counting many costs twice. Maybe the CPC could have handled the issue better and got on the same page, but I don't see any willful wrongdoing.

Also, I can't see us getting more than 20 year's use out of the F-35 before its completely obsolete, given the pace of technology, unless maybe Russia and China fall on their faces and aren't able to develop any new military equipment at that time. So that makes counting F-35 costs beyond that point rather moot.

[Electro Rock]

Except this dance has been danced before and the Auditor General made her recommendation, to which MacKay agreed to. And the internal numbers don't reflect public numbers. MacKay is lying on record, but you don't see any wrongdoing? Really? Have we forgotten how the acquisition process went?

At least we can both agree this is giant waste of money. Right?

[Satan's Evil Twin]

Given that you're talking about largely theoretical future figures, you can always throw a cheap "gotcha" in somewhere.

[Electro Rock]

Not to mention the fact that it isn't that great of an aircraft to begin with, being slow, with limited range and missle load.

[aliboy]

There's that, and the fact that no matter how well or advanced you design a fighter, and how aggressively you update it, it's still going to become obsolete very quickly in the 21st century.

It'd be like trying to design a smartphone that would still be technically competitive in 10 years, something that's not going to happen even if you had basically unlimited development resources.

[Satan's Evil Twin]

Tories try to stall auditor’s testimony on costly F-35 purchase

DANIEL LEBLANC

OTTAWA— Globe and Mail Update

Posted on

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:17AM EDT

Trying to buck tradition, Conservative MPs on the House of Commons public accounts committee attempted Tuesday to delay testimony by the Auditor-General on the bungled process to purchase new fighter jets.

However, committee chair David Christopherson expressed his outrage at the tactic, threatening to quit his position if the Conservatives used their majority to avoid hearing from the federal spending watchdog at the launch of the hearings.

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MacKay on the defensive over F-35 scandal

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Auditor-General slams F-35 process

“This will not continue with me in the chair,” the NDP MP said. “This is wrong.”

The Conservatives on the committee relented and allowed their motion to be amended to include the testimony of Auditor-General Michael Ferguson on Thursday, and other witnesses next week.

The public accounts committee is tasked with studying reports by the Auditor-General and offering oversight of government spending by ensuring departments follow up on the watchdog’s findings. The committee is traditionally less partisan than other parliamentary bodies, with an opposition MP in the chair.

Clearly angry, Mr. Christopherson said the Auditor-General’s report is “the basis of everything” and that other witnesses cannot be expected to speak about a report if the Auditor-General has not yet detailed his findings.

After the Conservative retreat, Mr. Christopherson thanked the committee for acceding to his wishes.

“May I just say very sincerely my appreciation to the government for the respect that you’ve shown Parliament and the office of the Auditor-General,” Mr. Christopherson told Conservative MPs.

Andrew Saxton, the parliamentary secretary to the Treasury Board President, sparked the firestorm when he tabled a motion that only included invitations to top officials from Public Works, Defence, Industry and the Treasury Board, and any relevant subordinates.

Mr. Saxton added that the committee could eventually hear from Mr. Ferguson, but refused to be pinned down on the issue of timing or other witnesses.

Liberal MP Gerry Byrne expressed his outrage at the Conservative tactics on the committee.

“This is a cover-up in the making,” Mr. Byrne said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tories-try-to-stall-auditors-testimony-on-costly-f-35-purchase/article2412291/

[aliboy]

Here is some info on the new Rafale radar system. Put this together with the 90kN engine and we're really talking about a Super Rafale which would be an outstanding choice for Canada if we don't purchase the F35.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/new-radar-could-boost-rafales-export-prospects-318499/

[Electro Rock]

The problem with the Rafale is, besides the dated basic platform, is you're either stuck using what are generally somewhat inferior French bombs and missiles with it, or you're going to have to go through a bunch of extra ha$$le to integrate U.S. weapons with it, *if* they'll let you.

Taking U.S. systems integration and engine and radar upgrades into account, its likely not going to be all that much cheaper to buy than the F-35.

[aliboy]

The problem with the Rafale is, besides the dated basic platform, is you're either stuck using what are generally somewhat inferior French bombs and missiles with it, or you're going to have to go through a bunch of extra ha$$le to integrate U.S.  weapons with it, *if* they'll let you.

Taking U.S. systems integration and engine and radar upgrades into account, its likely not going to be all that much cheaper to buy than the F-35.

[ronthecivil]

Well now that the funding is frozen we can begin the slow dance of pulling out entirely while saving some face.

We're going to need the money. Time to find some cheaper replacement planes for the F-35s and be done with it.

[The Situation]

Since Harper is attacking the NDP for the stances of a CCF leader long ago, the opposition can now apply the same standard towards the Conservatives. Even though the Conservatives are about 95% Reform/Alliance and 5% Progressive Conservative, its open season on John Diefenbaker and past leader of either party. Diefenbaker cut the Avro Arrow program. We probably would not be in this debacle if it were not for "Conservative" leader John Diefenbaker.

[Electro Rock]

Since Harper is attacking the NDP for the stances of a CCF leader long ago, the opposition can now apply the same standard towards the Conservatives. Even though the Conservatives are about 95% Reform/Alliance and 5% Progressive Conservative, its open season on John Diefenbaker and past leader of either party. Diefenbaker cut the Avro Arrow program. We probably would not be in this debacle if it were not for "Conservative" leader John Diefenbaker.

[The Situation]

How's that? Even if it had gone ahead the Arrow would have been retired decades ago and any follow-on would have been prohibitedly expensive even if the Liberal governments that basically ran the show from the early '60s to recently hadn't gutted the military budget.The best we probably could have done is become a partner in one of the European fighter projects, but in any scenario we're not saving any money over buy off the shelf.

[Satan's Evil Twin]

Amid accusations of bungling, Defence Department further restricts what public can know

By DAVID PUGLIESE, The Ottawa Citizen May 10, 2012

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Amid+accusations+bungling+Defence+Department+further+restricts+what+public+know/6601680/story.html#ixzz1uZsYBsYM

Minister of National Defence Peter MacKay

Photograph by: Tyrel Featherstone/Canwest News Service , Canwest News Service

OTTAWA — Under fire for bungling multibillion-dollar equipment programs, the Conservative government is clamping down on the information Canadians receive about military spending, declaring previously public documents as now secret and quietly awarding a $105-million contract for 13 new armoured vehicles, then claiming the deal was for transmission parts.

In early April the government awarded a $105-million contract to a German firm, FFG, to build 13 Leopard armoured engineering vehicles for the Canadian Forces. The only information put out by government was a brief and inaccurate notice stating that the company had been awarded a contract to provide “vehicular power transmission components.” The notice also claimed the deal was only for one item.

But defence industry sources say the government is misleading the public; the deal is actually for 13 specialized armoured vehicles, and not transmission parts.

In addition, the upcoming issue of the Canadian Naval Review published by Dalhousie University will report that the Defence Department’s Strategic Investment Plan, previously released by the Liberal government, is now considered “a classified document” and cannot be issued to the public. In April, DND informed the Review of the government’s new policy.

The investment document outlines a 15-year plan for equipment projects, their budgets and delivery schedules.

In addition, several days ago aerospace industry representatives at a meeting in Ottawa were asked by a senior Public Works official to avoid criticizing the Conservative government’s controversial F-35 stealth fighter purchase.

Public Works couldn’t comment on that issue, or on why $105 million in new armoured vehicles would be described as transmission parts.

The clampdown on information comes as the Conservatives face accusations they misled Parliament on the true cost of the F-35. The Auditor General recently noted government officials knew the real cost was at least $25 billion. Conservative ministers, however, continued to tell Parliament and the public the cost was only around $14.7 billion. The Conservatives have responded that the $10-billion discrepancy is because of a difference in accounting procedures.

But the F-35 is not the only multi-billion dollar project in trouble. For the second time the government’s plan to spend $2 billion on a new Close Combat Vehicle for the army has gone off the rails. The multi-billion dollar upgrade of the Halifax-class frigates is also at risk, according to a report by DND’s auditor.

Over the years the Conservative government has put in a strict policy of controlling the release of information, requiring approvals from both ministers’ offices and the Privy Council Office before departments can issue information. The latest moves tighten those restrictions even further, according to DND and industry officials.

But there is increasing frustration from senior officers that the government is also limiting information on issues the military considers “good news.”

This week the U.S. Navy announced that a Canadian general and a Canadian admiral would play key roles during a high-profile, 22-nation military exercise taking place in June in the Pacific. Meanwhile, DND officials could not get authorization from the government to put out their own press release.

NDP defence critic Jack Harris said the Conservative government has engaged in a pattern of deception when it comes to military equipment spending. “They don’t want taxpayers to know where their money is going,” he added.

Even seemingly innocuous information about equipment has been subject to the tight controls.

In an unusual move, Defence Minister Peter MacKay recently issued an order to senior generals to cancel a media interview about an unclassified project to buy a small number of robots, despite the desire of officers to discuss the program.

But MacKay’s spokesman Jay Paxton said the minister’s decision wasn’t unusual. He characterized the decision as an example of a defence minister working “with the military in providing information to Canadians.”

“There is a constant dialogue, and there always has been between the Office of the Minister and different commanders to ensure Canadians receive accurate information,” Paxton added.

He noted the interview was cancelled since no contract had been awarded.

DND officials and Canadian Forces officers say their organization embraces openness and transparency. Privately, however, some note secrecy is increasing, pointing to projects such as the F-35 and the armoured vehicle purchase as examples.

But Paxton has accused the previous Liberal government of not providing information to the public, while at the same time praising the Conservatives for efforts to circulate such details. “The Liberal government chose not to communicate with Canadians on the rust-out in the military equipment, the attrition rate of the Forces and the decay of morale among personnel,” Paxton noted in an email a year ago. “This government is rebuilding the Canadian Forces and we encourage officers and defence experts to discuss and explain to Canadians the important investments that Canada is making for the men and women in uniform, including the F35 joint strike fighter.”

But Auditor General Michael Ferguson has questioned such claims. He noted in his recent report that Parliament was kept in the dark about details of the proposed F-35 purchase.

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Amid+accusations+bungling+Defence+Department+further+restricts+what+public+know/6601680/story.html#ixzz1uZsVBh94

[Satan's Evil Twin]

RCMP conducted five-month national security probe into leaked F-35 story

By: Murray Brewster and Jim Bronskill, The Canadian Press

Posted: 4:16 PM | Comments: 5 (including replies) | Last Modified: 4:54 PM

OTTAWA - The Harper government called in the RCMP to investigate a politically embarrassing story involving the decision to sole-source the purchase of the F-35 stealth fighter, claiming it was a breach of national security, The Canadian Press has learned.

The Mounties conducted a five-month review into an alleged leak of cabinet documents under the Security of Information Act, recently used to charge a naval intelligence officer in an apparent spy case.

Records obtained under the Access to Information Act show investigators had doubts almost from the outset in July 2010 that any laws were broken in the Globe and Mail story.

The story revealed angst within government about possible alienation from Washington if a competition was held to replace the air force's CF-18s.

Still, the review pressed ahead and drew in one of the RCMP's four Integrated National Security Enforcement Teams, whose job it is to chase terrorism threats.

It was shut down in December 2010 for lack of evidence.

The case file shows the complaint was laid by Wayne Wouters, clerk of the Privy Council, the country's highest-ranking civil servant and adviser to Prime Minister Stephen Harper, shortly after the article appeared on June 11, 2010.

The story by reporter Daniel Leblanc ran a month before the Harper government formally announced it had selected the Lockheed Martin-built F-35 in a glitzy photo-op that included a mock-up of the radar-evading jet.

The first RCMP member to review the allegation on July 8 was mystified as to what the issue might be.

"By reading the article, it is unclear how the info, interferes with the development of weapons or jeopardizes the safety of Canada," said the summary file, which rated the preliminary investigation as a medium priority.

"It is an analytical fact that Canada and the USA are allies in several aspects. International competition may hinder Can-US relationships if Canada decides to turn down US offer, and the Globe and Mail article has not shed new lights on these facts or revealed secrets."

Doubts about the substance of the complaint lingered until the file was closed, the records show.

The prime minister's communications director defended the decision to ask for an investigation.

"The RCMP was asked to look into a possible unauthorized disclosure of classified information as has been done from time to time," said Andrew MacDougall in an email.

A spokesman for the RCMP, Cpl. David Falls, said the force has a mandate to "investigate the unauthorized disclosure, mishandling or communication of classified information," but declined to comment on the specifics of the Globe and Mail investigation, referring questions to the Privy Council Office.

The case file reveals investigators recommended on Sept. 2, 2010, the review be shut down. The complaint could be "concluded as it does not constitute a breach of secret or protected documents."

Yet it was kept alive by senior officers, who insisted National Defence be consulted, especially in light of reports that summer that computers at the 1st Canadian Air Division headquarters had been hacked.

As it turned out, the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service was already looking into the issue, but as part of the wider damage assessment of the massive leak of U.S. documents to the whistle-blowing website Wikileaks.

Military police said they had "no way of knowing what cabinet document was released" and later concluded that the Globe and Mail story did not constitute a breach, according to records and defence sources.

The RCMP closed its file in November 2010, but was forced to "re-activate" the case and "investigate further" because it was noted no one had talked to Wouters.

The file "should not have been concluded at this time before the complainant was met and had a chance to explain why he thinks there was a leak of 'secret cabinet documents,'" said a Dec. 22, 2010, notation.

The investigator apparently tried to contact Wouters, seeking clarification and was rebuked by the National Security Criminal Operations Branch, which noted the complaint had been filed by letter through the commissioner's office.

It took Mounties in charge of the case two-and-a-half months to get their hands on an actual copy the letter, which had been "kept at the commissioner's office."

In finally shutting down the probe, the Mounties said "since the information was available on open source, it was decided that no further investigation was needed."

Wesley Wark, an expert in security and intelligence at the University of Ottawa, said he was concerned by the revelations in the file. He described the probe as a misuse of not only the RCMP, but of the security legislation, one of the most serious laws on the book.

"This has the whiff, well more than a whiff, of a politically inspired move," said Wark.

"The complaint was coming from an odd place, an admittedly senior place within the government. The fact the clerk would ask the commissioner to do this is in of itself very unusual."

He said it would not have been so unusual had the request for an investigation come from either the deputy ministers at Defence or Foreign Affairs — departments that would have had a more direct say whether the story contained classified information.

But even in those cases, Wark said, departments have their own security officers who track media leaks and those rarely amount to criminal investigations.

He said it is also unusual in that the government would have known that media leak provisions of the legislation were struck down a few years ago in the aftermath of the case where Ottawa Citizen reporter Juliet O'Neill's home was raided following stories she wrote about the Maher Arar affair.

"There are a number of things at work here that are troubling, quite apart from what appears to be the silliness of the exercise in the first place and the waste of resources," said Wark.

"Even if they had a strong case, prudence would suggest this is not the kind of thing you would want to pursue. The Security of Information Act doesn't exist to be used for politically inspired chill.

"

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/rcmp-conducted-five-month-national-security-probe-into-leaked-f-35-story-151781025.html

Harper government should be renamed to Limbo government. And a limbo bar laying on the floor should replace all the portraits of Harper in the HoC.

[key2thecup]

Tories move to pull plug on controversial F-35 hearings

Move seen as 'a scandal,' some say

OTTAWA — The Harper government is moving to shut down House of Commons hearings into the auditor general's scathing report on the $25-billion F-35 stealth fighter jet project.

The Conservatives moved a motion during a recent closed-door public accounts committee meeting to end the panel's inquiry into the auditor's report on the F-35 procurement process.

The government's manoeuvre, led by Conservative MP Andrew Saxton, comes after about seven hours of hearings and before opposition parties had their chance to grill ministers and Defence Department officials who have criticized Auditor General Michael Ferguson's findings.

Liberal and NDP members of Parliament on the committee had expected the hearings would continue this week, with the resumption of Parliament following a one-week break. But Saxton introduced a motion during the committee's last meeting on May 17 to stop calling witnesses and have the panel prepare a report.

"This is outrageous. We can't shut this committee down," said Gerry Byrne, a Liberal MP on the public accounts committee. "To shut this committee down is a scandal. It means the government is desperate to hide something."

Byrne said the committee hasn't had an opportunity to hear from the two ministers involved in the file, or from a number of other witnesses who could help further pull back the curtain on what has been happening with the F-35.

The committee could reprimand the Liberal MP for disclosing what was discussed during an in-camera meeting, something prohibited under parliamentary rules.

National Defence bureaucrats, along with Defence Minister Peter MacKay and associate minister Julian Fantino, have come under heavy fire since Ferguson released a damning report on the F-35 last month.

Ferguson's report found senior managers twisted rules, downplayed problems and withheld information about the stealth fighter program — failing to disclose before the last election, for example that the planes would cost taxpayers at least $25 billion — about $10 billion more than what the government promised.

Defence Department officials, led by deputy minister Robert Fonberg, the department's top civilian, have disputed many of Ferguson's findings and questioned his conclusions.

Saxton, the parliamentary secretary to Treasury Board president Tony Clement, said Monday in an emailed statement that the committee already has heard three times from the auditor general on his report.

Furthermore, he noted, senior officials from four departments also have testified during two separate meetings detailing the government's response, while the parliamentary budget officer has also appeared to compare his office's numbers to those of the government.

"The committee's mandate is to study the auditor general's reports. The committee has studied this chapter thoroughly and should now begin writing its report," Saxton said in the statement.

The Liberals also are upset that committee chairman and NDP MP David Christopherson allowed the Tories to move the motion, when two motions from Byrne to call new witnesses and request documents were still being debated. The committee is scheduled to meet again Tuesday behind closed doors.

NDP House leader Nathan Cullen attacked a government he said is cutting pensions, environmental protection and employment insurance benefits as it dumps money into an F-35 program that is "spiralling out of control."

"The hearings were helping Canadians understand what the true costs may be. That is obviously a problem for the Conservative government. We are pressing for more hearings, not fewer," Cullen told reporters Monday.

Read more: http://www.canada.com/technology/Tories+move+pull+plug+controversial+hearings/6695869/story.html#ixzz1wHXuDw8z

[Satan's Evil Twin]

Damn, beat me to it.

This government is a cesspool of unethical behavior.