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The Canucks Should Start Acquiring More Truly Great Players - A History

BanTSN

Entry posted by BanTSN

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I posted this in the proposals section, but it probably doesn't belong there as proposals are more specific, like 'trade for Stamkos' etc. And that OP is just too epic. So I made it into a blog. It's my first entry and likely last one for awhile. Thanks for reading if you decide to.

The Canucks Should Start Acquiring More Truly Great Players - A History

The Sedins are great players, but still down the list of ALL-TIME greats.

Bure was better. Probably the best Canuck of all time.

Naslund was up there too.

... Is that it? Do you consider Luongo one of the all-time greats? Not sure. Maybe if he won a cup.

So I guess that's it. One player per decade, unless you count the Sedins as one player, and honestly they'll likely be inducted in the HOF as a pair.

Um, that's not a lot. In fact i'm wondering if that's a league-low. But i don't want to look into it, nor start a debate with homers about whether ho-hum players like Ohlund, Smyl and Snepts are all-time greats. Not to mention Linden. (I get into that later.)

I propose that we start acquiring more truly great players if we want to ultimately win a cup.

How though?

First, we should probably use the draft to do it. Throughout Canuck history we've squandered picks on slow big players and small fast players. Or just plain up wrong players. From day 1 this team has stunk at drafting. Tallon over Sittler, Leach, Macleish. Then it continues on. Guevermont over Martin. Lalonde over Larry Robinson. And on and on. Lever over Shutt. Ververgeart over Lanny Macdonald. Sedlbauer over Mark Howe. Gillis over Wilson. That ancient pattern has sadly repeated itself for this team to this very day.

Wouldn't it be better for this team if they simply stopped drafting the wrong players? Over and over and over again? I sure think so. Moreso, I would like it for the team to stop telling us that the wrong player they picked was actually the right player. We're not idiots. We know a good player when we see one, let lone a great one. We've seen plenty a great player come into our arena and dominate us.

Secondly, how about trading for some? Or at least stop trading the ones you have away for garbage. Or losing them for nothing. I think the Canucks would've been a much better team if they had not traded Neely away. Heck, Rick Vaive? Maybe the Canucks would've been a much better team if they had kept Bure. And Larionov. Heck, Nedved went onto be a 90pt player. Peca went to the finals. Mogilny was great and all, but not so much for us. He won as soon as we traded him though.

Third, wouldn't it be nice if the Canucks could be like these other great franchises who draft great players, make great signings and great trades? Maybe we could sign some great players. The only great players we've signed lately have been expired goods. Remember Mats Sundin? He is one of the all-time greats. But for us? Embarrassing. Why is that? Why is it the Canucks always seem to get players who are currently embarrassing? I think the Canucks should certainly stop doing that if they want to ultimately win.

Polasek over Valeri Bure. Remember that? Fourth, hey, maybe the Canucks should keep their great players they have happy. That way they wouldn't all want to instantly leave when they get the chance. I dunno. Maybe just and idea. I guess we're doing that more though. However, we're still not getting enough in the draft, signings and trades.

Fifth. How about being able to develop players correctly. That would sure help. Hey, remember how long it took the Sedins to finally become good? To not be soft? To finally be able to score in this league regularly. If you don't remember, it was around six years, and that's only because the league softened the rules to cut down on obstruction. That's a pretty long time to get players who are talented 2nd and 3rd overall picks (we've never had a first overall) to finally develop into decent NHL players. Shouldn't the Canucks get better at that too if they ultimately want to win? I think so.

And how about Trevor Linden? We consider him the best Canuck of all time, but he's NOT one of the all-time greats. I think we loved Trevor Linden so much because the Canucks finally drafted a player who looked decent, AND he stuck around, sort of. That only took 19 years. 19 years? Wow, that's a long time. The only other guys we drafted up until then who looked decent were Vaive and Neely, but they had to go elsewhere to be good. Remember how we traded Linden anyway? Remember how we signed the guy who broke him in the playoffs to take over the team? Like a slap in the face? Wow, you don't see any great franchises treat their beloved players so poorly. Do you? Sixth, I recommend that the Canucks stop throwing their good players under the bus. It's pretty darn shameful if you ask me.

I think that there are some players they're looking at right now and saying, 'Hey! You're no good anymore! Get out of here, you no good player, you.' When actually they're still good. It's just that they're playing on a crap team. Seventh, maybe the Canucks should stop trading those good players away and instead trade the bad players who make the team crap away instead. I think this ties into drafting and development as well. Maybe stop drafting crap and having crap development. I think that would help a lot.

In conclusion, I guess things have been better as of late. Not everything is as crappy as what it was in the 70's, 80's (except '82) and the Messier era. But they're still not all that great. Why is that? Well, because we're still not getting enough great players. We're not keeping the good ones around. And we have too many crappy players in our lineup currently. That's why they're losing currently, and that's why they ultimately haven't won a cup. Just way too many crappy players in our lineups throughout team history.

I've suggested 7 things that the Canucks should be doing in order to turn that around. They're all pretty good suggestions i think. And they're all pretty easy to do. Just draft better. (Quit highlighting the wrong players on your picklist and instead highlight the right ones. That would be a good start.) Then start making some decent trades and signings. Easy enough. We've done that before to a degree. Not 'great' trades and signings per se, but some alright ones. (Heck, remember when we traded for Naslund? Yay that was a gooder) And once we got these good players, it's pretty important to help them out in every way, not throw them under the bus. I have a feeling that the Sedins are going to be thrown under the bus after their 4 year deal too. Say SEE ya! after all those years of service while supporting them with garbage complimentary players during a weak retooling period. What's the deal with that? I don't think any great franchise would do that to their great players. It's wrong. We need to stop being wrong.

Okay, sorry for the long read, but I think essentially the concept is pretty easy to follow. Thanks for reading.

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BanTSN

Further to the point of not drafting undersized weaklings if you ultimately want to win, i've compiled a list of players to AVOID in the NHL 2014 draft. This is from the central scouting list.

Chase De Leo. Too small, not overly aggressive, sheltered on a deep team, and not skilled enough to get over the lack of NHL size to become a decent scorer. Bust with highly-sheltered depth scoring potential, tops.

Josh Ho-Sang. Too skinny, not overly aggressive, sheltered on a deep team, and not skilled enough to get over the lack of NHL weight to become a decent scorer. Will spend years to put on weight, will likely slow down in that process, will likely be hurt often, and will likely bust.

Nikolaj Ehlers. Too skinny, not overly aggressive, from Denmark, sheltered on a deep team, and not skilled enough to get over the lack of NHL weight to become a decent scorer. Think Anton Rodin, who's also not an NHLer.

Robby Fabbri. Again too skinny, not overly aggressive, sheltered on a deep team, and not skilled enough. Another low qualcomp-type player, tops.

Spencer Watson. Is a 157lb boy. He never takes penalties. He'll never pan out in the NHL unless there is some miracle taking place. Think Kyle Wellwood, except not as fat.

Brayden Point. Another 150lb boy. Pass.

Daniel Audette. Son of Donald. Destined to be picked by midget Hab squad. The midget will never win anything, just like dear ol' dad.

Kyle Jenkins. Too skinny and not skilled enough to have significant NHL defenseman upside.

Tanner Macmaster. 146lbs of pure bust. Will likely not be drafted.

Francis Perron. Too skinny to become anything but a scorer against weak AHLers.

Olivier Leblanc. Too small for NHL defenseman upside. QMJHL defenseman are generally soft.

Seamus Malone. His name is Seamus, for starters, but this guy plays a bit chippier brand of hockey than the other midgets. Might be worth a late rounder. If he puts on some weight you can cross your fingers for a Brad Marchand-type.

Alexy Sleptsov. Too skinny and not skilled enough for significant NHL defenseman upside. Future constant minus.

Daniel Walcott. Again too skinny and not skilled enough for significant NHL defenseman upside. QMJHL guy.

Michael Lee. Ditto.

Nickolas Broulliard. Another too small Q defenseman.

Ivan Nicholishin. Impish Russian center. Think poor-man's Shirokov.

This is just a no-brainer approach to drafting effectively. It's easy. Avoid soft midgets and you come out ahead. The Canucks still draft too many undersized players who are not overly aggressive or skilled. Those type of players never win anything in the NHL.

Once you eliminate these guys from your prospect pool, you can then move on to greater heights, like figuring out which big players will be fast enough to compete in the bigs. Or which average-sized players have the skill and aggression to compete in the bigs.

Baby steps, folks. 40+ years later and we're still taking baby steps at the drafting table. (Hopefully.)

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-AJ-

I think completely eliminating short players could be a mistake.

Some short players throughout history I found:

Paul Kariya - Had a 50-goal season

Martin St. Louis - Won Two Art Ross Trophies

Pavel Bure - Among the best goal scorers of the 90s, led or tied for the lead in goals three times

Dino Ciccarelli - Finished with over 600 goals, seven 40+ goal seasons

Denis Savard - Five 100+ seasons, one 131 point season

Bobby Clarke - Hard-nosed forward had three 100+ point seasons and led team to back-to-back Stanley Cups

Theo Fleury - Managed four 40+ goal seasons in a relatively short career

Pat Verbeek - Eight 30+ goal seasons, finished with over 500 goals

Pat LaFontaine - 148-point season

Mark Recchi - 123-point season that included 53 goals

Marcel Dionne - Six 120+ point seasons, one of the best forwards of All-Time

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BanTSN

Kariya had scored 100pts in 39 games before he was drafted. No I would not ignore that. He's also 5'11.

Martin St. Louis is the go-to example for short players these days. He is a pure muscle freak of nature. He's one of the toughest, if not the toughest player in the league.

Bure wasn't huge, but wasn't tiny either. He was also a freak, and elitely skilled. I'm suggesting the Canucks get more players like him.

Ciccarelli was around the same size as Bure.

Savard was 5'10". He scored 181pts in 72gp before being drafted. Would that be ignored by anyone? Nope.

Clarke was 5'10" 168pts in 59gp before being drafted.

Theo Fleury is the other true short man's go-to guy. 129pts in 66gp. His ultra-aggressive style earned him a job and he had an outstanding career. If i'd pick a short man, he'd have to play a similar style of game. Make up for lack of size by being a real pain in the butt. Brad Marchand? Both he and St. Louis weighed a lot for their height, while maintaining speed. Freaks.

Verbeek also played a real chippy game. Would not be overlooked.

Recchi 5'10" 154pts in 62gp while not playing a total puff game. This kind of skill won't be ignored.

Dionne may be the best short guy to never do anything in the playoffs. 62g and 143pts in 46gp. Would I have passed on that do draft Guevremont, Carr or Martin? Probably not.

The Canucks' problem in their drafting history is that the vast majority of smallish guys they picked aren't elite skilled or aggressive.

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Utica Fan

For a 1st year Canuck fan, I enjoyed reading this. I hope to see things turn around for the team. Some have mentioned that the "Canucks own their own farm team for a change". Because I'm here in Utica, I'd like to know what this means. I enjoy reading these posts. People here are very passionate about their team. "True Fans".

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Guest

For a 1st year Canuck fan, I enjoyed reading this. I hope to see things turn around for the team. Some have mentioned that the "Canucks own their own farm team for a change". Because I'm here in Utica, I'd like to know what this means. I enjoy reading these posts. People here are very passionate about their team. "True Fans".

Not every NHL team owns their AHL affiliate. The company "Canucks Sports & Entertainment" owns both the Canucks and the Comets which means they can actually be "hands on" when it comes to prospect development in the AHL.

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Mr.DirtyDangles

I think completely eliminating short players could be a mistake.

Some short players throughout history I found:

Paul Kariya - Had a 50-goal season

Martin St. Louis - Won Two Art Ross Trophies

Pavel Bure - Among the best goal scorers of the 90s, led or tied for the lead in goals three times

Dino Ciccarelli - Finished with over 600 goals, seven 40+ goal seasons

Denis Savard - Five 100+ seasons, one 131 point season

Bobby Clarke - Hard-nosed forward had three 100+ point seasons and led team to back-to-back Stanley Cups

Theo Fleury - Managed four 40+ goal seasons in a relatively short career

Pat Verbeek - Eight 30+ goal seasons, finished with over 500 goals

Pat LaFontaine - 148-point season

Mark Recchi - 123-point season that included 53 goals

Marcel Dionne - Six 120+ point seasons, one of the best forwards of All-Time

Just a few corrections I agree to some extent as the other softies on the list had giant thugs for protection while the others could protect themselves, also the game is truly played by giants now. Every line is mammoth and I think this is what the OP wants. SO DO I ! Time for crushing scoring and more crushing. If Kellan Lain can play anywhere close to say Bertuzzi or Lucic' style i cant wait !... Bure 5'11 played around 200 most of his career had a savage mean streak. Fleury score 40 twice and 50 once also nasty mean streak. Ciccarelli played like an escaped convict he was so ruthless in front of the net. Bobby Clarke on the back of one of his cards is listed at 5'10 180 and IS known as one of the toughest Sob's to play the game.

I agree with both of you . We need size and scoring but we can not count out the pure skilled smaller players. If they can play like Patrick "The Garbage Collector'" Kane and sneak around avoid the hits and slink in the dirty areas while sniping the puck then there is a place for them in the league.

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