Arrow 1983
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Posts posted by Arrow 1983
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Vancouver Canucks Elias Pettersson - TSN.ca
Pettersson was directly quoted
"My agents do all the talking (with the Canucks), and then they inform me about what's going on," Pettersson said, as translated by Hockeysverige's Uffe Bodin. "Right now, we're not in an agreement, but I'm not worried that we're not going to solve it eventually. Both parties need to be happy in order to find a solution, but I'm not worried about that."
"l want to stay there (Vancouver) now, but I also want to play for a team that's winning and has the chance to go far into the playoffs every year," Pettersson added. "I feel like we've got a chance to do that next year. If we have that chance when my next deal expires... I don't know. I just wanna play where there's a chance of winning."
Note, Pettersson is a RFA therefor, will eventually sign with the Canucks
This format of signing has been verified by the MODs in the post (signing) Islanders sign Zach Parise
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On 8/14/2021 at 4:46 PM, -Vintage Canuck- said:
AAV: $2.65 million
can you call it a re-sign if he was never played for this team.
I think it should say the Canucks signed Jason Dickinson just like the news release says
Or are you right because he was traded to the Canucks prior to UFA and therefor, was still signed to his contract when he was acquired
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8 hours ago, Darth Canuck said:
Saw this on CapFriendly.
There’s a lot of concern that another team could offer sheet Petey.
Have a look at the teams available to make such an offer, and if Jerperi K does go to Carolina, then Carolina is now off the list. Also remember, Petey did say (and I’m paraphrasing), he wants to play for a playoff team (or whatever the statement was).
note: this chart pertains only to own picks available, and does not take cap space into account.Go Canucks!
Just my quick take on an offer sheet
no one is about to give up 4 first for for any 1 single player
SO there is only 11 teams that could offer sheet EP
EP won't go to Ari, Buf or Ott (EP wants to win) so that make 8 remaining
MTL Dal and Car don't have enough cap space and Min has there own RFA to sign
So now we are down to Nash, NJ, Det, Sea and
NJ and Det probably are in the same categories as Buf, Ari and Ott so it is probably a long shot for EP to sign with those two clubs
So realistically 2 teams could offer sheet EP or another RFA in the league Nash and Sea.
Seattle could do it to the Canucks it wouldn't hurt them to much Sea and Van will never be trading partners but I am sure Van would match it.
Nash would benefit greatly they have the cap space for it and they desperately need a #1 center.
Min does come back into the picture if their RFA goes to Russia. But if they aren't willing to pay Kaprizov I can't see them forking over the money to EP.
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Just now, Elias Pettersson said:
I understand what you are saying. However I don't think Barry negotiates a 4 year deal without a NTC involved in the last year. If Petey wants to go to a winner the Canucks wouldn't have to honour that as they would simply take the best deal without a NTC in the contract. Seth Jones had a M-NTC so he controlled where he was traded to for the most part (eliminated 10 teams).
Honestly if EP wants to dictate everything then let him sit. If it is a sign and trade deal EP will have had to agree to the trade. Without the sign part of the deal it is just a rental price the Canucks will get.
I am not one of those people who fears him walking at UFA or letting him sit. (Note I think this is all a moot point, First I think the deals for Hughes and EP are already done it is just better to announce them in September then in the dog days of August Just like BB and BO. Second, I think this team is ready to win now and in the future and if they are winning EP will re-sign).
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9 minutes ago, gurn said:
Way too soon, get back to me when Elias gets more than a point per game over 1 season.
First, at this time of there careers EP is far better than Henrik was.
You posted prone meaning i.e. something that could project in the future.
So if you want to play that game I can say EP is prone to be far better than Henrik.
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5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:
Well what's to stop the Canucks from trading him at any time, 2nd year, 3rd, 4th, 5th? He can be traded at any time no matter what deal he signs so that is a moot point.
The 3 year deal allows the two sides to get together one more time to get a long term deal signed. Allows the two parties to negotiate in good faith. With a 4 year deal there would be no opportunity to do that. If he's not happy then you need to trade him in his last year. Also, with a bridge deal he probably doesn't get a NTC in his deal just like Barzal never got one. With a 4 year deal Barry might ask for one in the last year just like Matthews has in his contract so the player can avoid being traded to teams he doesn't like. Toronto would need to trade Matthews in his 4th year if they want to control where he goes and get the best deal as Matthews has a NMC in his last year which screws Toronto. You don't want the same situation with Petey. Give him a 3 year bridge with no NTC and then you figure it out 3 years from now.
We are going in circles.
I think you didn't understand me on the trade part if by the 4th year the Canucks got a sense of him wanting out i.e. he doesn't want to re-sign with the team. Could easily give him a NMC for the 1st 3 years.
But no 4 year term with a NTC attached to it on last year. Plus it would most likely be a sign and trade anyways I can't see a team trading for any big name for the type of assets that would come back.
I wasn't at any point saying the Canucks would want to just trade him willy-nilly.
The point is a 3 or 4 year has no difference in what happens. If EP wants out he will get out. The difference I guess would be how they structure the contract. EP can't dictate to the team that he will just walk
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4 hours ago, gurn said:
Herik Sedin, playing center ice, just like Elias, missed 30 games over 17 seasons
Elias has missed 41 over 3 years.
prone[prōn]ADJECTIVE-
(prone to/prone to do something)likely to or liable to suffer from, do, or experience something, typically something regrettable or unwelcome."years of logging had left the mountains prone to mudslides" ·synonyms:susceptible · vulnerable · liable · inclined · given · subject · disposed ·
Lol
I guess Henrik is better then Gretzky
Or 99.9% of the league.
Henrik was 1 of the few who was able to stay healthy. The truth is EP is a far better player than Henrik. Henrik never played as aggressive as EP does and.
EP makes Henrik look like a 2nd line center.
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2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:
They are different. With a 3 year deal you can re-evaluate in the summer where the team is at. He’s only going to sign his qualifying offer if he doesn’t think the team is gonna win. The 3 year deal gives you a second chance to renegotiate prior to him becoming a UFA. Also it gives the team time to trade him if that’s what he wants just like Seth Jones. And Petey would have time to renegotiate with another team as well.
That’s quite different than a 4 year where he does just literally walk to UFA.
Why can't the Canucks just trade him in the 4th year if they get the sense he is just going to walk. How is it any different.
Nothing stops the Canucks renegotiate a new contract in the 4th year with him if he wants to stay. It all comes down to if he wants to stay or not. The truth is what he says now has no bases on where the team is in 3-4 years. If the team is winning there is no reason he won't re-sign. If the team is losing the Canucks should trade him anyways and get going on a new rebuild.
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Best deal is to buy a UFA year and sign him to 5 years. Good for the Canucks because they get him for 5 years and they have the cap space for it good for EP because he will get more money guaranteed and give him a chance to see where the team is
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12 hours ago, mll said:
After 3 seasons he can file for arbitration to get a 1-year deal or he can simply sign his qualifying offer.
This guy gets it.
3 years is 4 years.
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14 hours ago, King Heffy said:
If he wants 4 years, he can sit.
3 year deal is like 4 he can just sign his qualifying offer and then walk. I don't understand people like you you guys just don't get it. If he walks at UFA the team probably has bigger issues. Why strap a great player to a sinking ship. Trade him and rebuild the ship makes more sense to me. Better to have him want to leave then to be stuck with him like the Sedins. If we could have traded the Sedins the rebuild would have gone 10 times faster.
All you can see is the now. 4 years from now if this core can’t cut it cut it lose and try again
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15 hours ago, combover said:
That could be the hold up.
he said he wants to win, well 4 years and he’s in control.
What choice does Jb have he spent to the limit again if EP holds out it’ll all be for nothing can’t have the best player watching. agents and players know it’s win or be fired for JB so Jb really has very little leverage.
3 seasons makes no sense from ep stand point still rfa if I was his agent I’d just laugh at 3 year offer.
I don’t blame ep for not wanting to be stuck on a team that can’t figure out how to win.
3 is like 4 he just has to sign is qualifying offer and then walk. This is why I don't understand the hang up on not signing a guy to his UFA year. The Canucks have cap space to sign him to 4 or 5 years just do it to the longest term possible within the cap and who cares about the UFA thing. If he wants to stay he will if not well the team at that point probably has bigger issues or he just doesn't want to be here. Either way who cares
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15 hours ago, Silky mitts said:
Can't do 4 at any cost, can't afford to walk him to
UFAA 3 year deal is like 4 he gets a qualifying offer after 3 years and takes it then he can walk. If a player wants out there is little a team can do to stop it from happening. Anything 4 or over brings him to UFA. If the team wants a long term commitment they have to fork over the money for a 8 year term even then EP has to agree to sign it.
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6 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:
Yes I agree that a long term contract for Hughes is worth approximately $1m less than the Heiskanen contract at $8.45m x 8 years.
Heiskanen is the more all-round player and is an “all situations” Dman. Hughes is more of a powerplay specialist. The Krug and Spurgeon contracts from 2020 are a good comparison to show why Hughes’ contract should be lower than Heiskanen’s.
Both Krug and Spurgeon were UFA, so their contract amounts are not comparable to QH and MH, but they show the relative value of similar Dmen signed to long term deals at the same time. Krug is a powerplay specialist like Hughes. Spurgeon is more of an “all situations” Dman like Heiskanen.
Hughes’ 2020-21 stats are closely comparable to Krug’s in his contract year in 2019-20. Krug scored 49 pts in 61 games (21 at even strength), whereas Hughes scored 41 pts in 56 games (22 at ES).
Heiskanen’s 2020-21 stats are closely comparable to Spurgeon’s in his contract year in 2019-20. Spurgeon scored 25 pts in 62 games (16 at ES), whereas Heiskanen scored 27 pts in 55 games (16 at ES). Both Heiskanen and Spurgeon play on the PP and PK with similar success in their contract years.
In 2020 Spurgeon was signed to a $7.75m x 7 deal as a UFA. In the same year Krug was signed to a $6.5m x 7 deal as a UFA.
This demonstrates the relative value of a powerplay specialist vs. an “all situations” Dman. The more rounded player is getting paid about $1m more than the PP specialist.
For this reason I believe a long term deal for Hughes should be about $1m less than Heiskanen. So that puts a long term deal for Hughes around the $7.5m x 8 years.
HAHAHAHA
you are comparing 30 year old's to a 21 year old
using your logic if Maker is better defensively and they are the same age and roughly the same amount of points Hughes is worth 8 million on a 6 year deal.
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1 minute ago, aGENT said:
Inflation isn't 'hypothetical'. Clear examples in differences of RFA and UFA years aren't 'hypothetical'. What you're doing is 'hypothetical'.
And IMO COL got a bit bent over with Makar. He's a damn good player but they should have got another year or two out of that hit. It's a bit of an outlier IMO.
outlier or not it is in the market place now. It can not just be dismissed because you or some one doesn't like it.
Inflation isn't Hypothetical and at no point did I dismiss it. I am sure that the the GMs and agents talk about future evaluations after all long term contract require making assumption of the future. It is also known to all that the cap isn't expected to rise much in the next few years. It was just recently announce that next year it may go up 1 million dollars. 1 million dollars isn't that much inflation considering prior to Covid it was projected to go up 4 million.
The truth is the the Highest dollar Values reflect UFA year market prices for both players. if you cant except that than all I can say is at least we agree to disagree.
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1 minute ago, aGENT said:
Likely. They're elite D. Doughty and Karlsson were paid $11 and $11.5 for their big UFA years how many years ago? With another 4 years of inflation from now, what does that come to?
More than that I'd wager.
I will bet that is why Makers deal is only 6 years. His agent probable wanted 12-13 million for 2 more years but than that would have risen the AVV higher than Col wanted.
So I will consider what the actual numbers they got to be correct of what their worth is and not your hypothetical thinking.
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5 minutes ago, aGENT said:
No, that variance doesn't directly equate to RFA year value. That's just a (poor) assumption on your part. Those contracts are over paying RFA years to under pay the UFA ones. They'd be seeing more than $8m in those UFA years otherwise.
Heiskanen 4 Highest payed years are 9-10-11-11 you are saying his UFA years would be more ?????
Makers 2 highest payed are 10.6 and 11.00 you are saying he would get payed more ?????
Also I don't see 8.00 million in any of those numbers
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4 minutes ago, aGENT said:
No, it hasn't.
this is not a good response this a response by a person who has no prove. Just his feelings
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2 minutes ago, aGENT said:
No, it hasn't.
where is your prove I show you the math
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Just now, aGENT said:
They haven't. Not more than minor inflation anyway. Most of those guys signed 3 year bridge deals covering RFA only years. In fact leaving some. The guy's you were comparing them to, signed longer deals with UFA years.
so you say they left some why would Hughes leave some.
Second those long term deals are structure not as 9 million each year or 8.45 million per year but have different values for different years if you extract the lowest values and and have those as your RFA years and the Higher values as you UFA years you can clearly see what RFA and UFA years cost
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11 minutes ago, aGENT said:
See what? That GM'S have been paying UFA aged D $7m+ for years now? Guys like Spurgeon, Byfuglien, Vlasic or Carlsson? Nevermind truly big money guys like Doughty or Karlsson.
You don't speak for me and don't presume to tell me what I think, thanks. No, I'm merely suggesting we pay him RFA rates for his RFA years. And Hughes may certainly become a #1D, but he's not one yet. He lacks the all around game. Right now, he's a very offensively talented #2.
Heiskenan's deal isn't a 3 year bridge. It's buying UFA years. You guys keep wanting to pay Hughes UFA wages for RFA years. Heiskenan is also a better all around D. Yes offense does pay, so does the multi dimensional play required of a true #1. And as in outlined above, Hughes would see a similar cap for similar term. He's not going to see that on a shorter term.
the first 3 years of RFA has clearly risen from 4.8-5.0 million to 6.6-7.8 million
the 4th year has risen from 7.0-7.3 million to 8.0-9.0 million
that is on average 2 million per season for the first 3 years and 1- 2 million on the 4th year. or 7 million more total on a 4 years of RFA
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1 hour ago, Arrow 1983 said:
I disagree the Landscape has change the players you show prove it
Werenski signed 2 years ago, 3 years 5 million cap hit,
Segachev 1 year ago 3 years @ 4.8 million
McAvory 2 years ago 3 years @ 4.9 million
With each of these players final years at 7.0, 7.20 7.3 mill which will be the qualifying offer
Chabot 3 lowest years (RFA year) are 4.0, 7.0, 7.00 average of 6 million is the Highest but on a 8 year deal.
Heiskanen 4 lowest (RFA years) 5.00, 6.6, 7.0, average 6.6 million
Maker Average is 7.8 mill
The number for the first 3 years is starting to increase.
lets look at the 4th year final year of RFA. 7.0, 7.2 and 7.3 for the past 3
and for Heiskanen 8.0 mill and Maker 9.00 million, again an increase from the past 2 years. Of the past contracts Chabot got 8 million again surpassing the other 3 but on an 8 year deal.
You are correct the UFA years do seem to be stagnate around that 10 mill Chabot number and 11 mill For Heiskanen and Makers = to past contracts like Doughty and Karlsson
But it isn't the UFA years that I or others are referring to it is the RFA years amounts that are increasing.
I am wondering are you saying that on a bridge deal you are valuing Hughes @ 5 mill per. I wonder this because this years contracts are not dictating that. The only thing JB could argue is that next season is technically his 3rd season.
Leaving Hughes with a contract structure, 5 mill for the first year (eq
1 hour ago, aGENT said:They haven't changed much. There's a bit of inflation but Covid has largely minimized that.
You're trying to compare short bridge deals with long term ones buying UFA years. Most of these guys are going to go from being worth roughly the $5m-$6m'ish they are in their 3 year bridge, RFA years, to $8m-$10m (or more) UFA's.. that's why these guys are getting $6.5-$8.5 second deals. Teams are buying their $8m-$10m UFA years and their $5-$6m RFA years and averaging that over 6-8 year terms.
ual to Heiskanen) 7 million for the 2nd year ( 400k above Heiskanen 6.6mill) and 7.5 million ( 500k above Heiskanen 7.0 mill) for 19.5 million over 3 years = 6.5 mill Cap Hit. Remember Heiskanen is 6.2 mill over the same period.
For a longer term all other yearly values from my OP would stay roughly the same. So a 6 year term would be 46.5 million or 7.75 mill cap hit,
8 years would be 68.5 million or 8.5625 Cap Hit.
here it is again
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5 minutes ago, aGENT said:
See what? That GM'S have been paying UFA aged D $7m+ for years now? Guys like Spurgeon, Byfuglien, Vlasic or Carlsson? Nevermind truly big money guys like Doughty or Karlsson.
You don't speak for me and don't presume to tell me what I think, thanks. No, I'm merely suggesting we pay him RFA rates for his RFA years. And Hughes may certainly become a #1D, but he's not one yet. He lacks the all around game. Right now, he's a very offensively talented #2.
Heiskenan's deal isn't a 3 year bridge. It's buying UFA years. You guys keep wanting to pay Hughes UFA wages for RFA years. Heiskenan is also a better all around D. Yes offense does pay, so does the multi dimensional play required of a true #1. And as in outlined above, Hughes would see a similar cap for similar term. He's not going to see that on a shorter term.
well we will at least agree to disagree
you clearly did not read the post I wrote but you did comment on it. I said that UFA years costs weren't changing but clearly used the players you listed that were signed a year or 2 years ago to show you how RFA year costs had risen
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1 hour ago, The_Rocket said:
Seen that some member of the analytics community have been posting historic WAR player cards based on requests from Twitter users. Both burrows and Kesler have been posted.
somehow, burrows was one of the best penalty killers in the league, while Kesler was one of the worst.
it’s worth noting that PK WAR only considers DEFENSE. Scoring goals and generating rushes on the PK does not matter for this stat.
how is it possible that Kesler and burrows, who spent most of their PK time TOGETHER are so drastically different?
how did burrows defensive game get so awful in 2011, his best year?
hiw is Burrows’s penalty differential so good, knowing how many minors he took?
unfortunately, these cards get passed around like gospel but I often find they leave far more questions than answers. And the data behind them isn’t easily reviewed, and their compiled by one guy.
is this stat Broken, or am I missing something?
Any single advance stat can only give a small piece to the Puzzle and in hockey we are talking about a 1000 piece puzzle.
with multiple stats and the eye test only then can you see what the bigger picture is.
A person just looking at a stat or multiple stats will never know what a player meant to their team like a fan does.
And a fan will never understand how good or bad a player truly was if they don't look at the stats.
Manny Malhotra is always my example. Look just at his point stats and one would think he did not play a big role on this team. But he freed Kesler up from his defensive duties.
Look at Malhotra only as a fan might and you might say he was good on faceoffs and PK but advance stats shows he was far more, than that. His possession time and linemate possession times where among the best in the league probably because he won so many faceoffs.
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(signing) Canucks Sign Pettersson
in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Posted
I beat vintage to the biggest signing thread