Arrow 1983
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Posts posted by Arrow 1983
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2 hours ago, Viper007 said:
As much as I love your optimism, I would've probably taken that bet too. I would be hesitant if I were you, on the Top 10 PK and Top 10 Fewest Goals allowed. Top 10 PP and GF is very doable.
I have greater belief that this team will be better defensively than they will be on the power play. Yes, the 2nd unit will be better with OEL and Garland and even Dickenson to center it, but the one thing I know about hockey is, it is a possession game and with this new top 9 forward group and Motto and Sutter where they belong (on the 4th line) this team will have one of the best possession numbers in the league and as it goes if a team has the puck more than the opposition that's the best defense.
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6 minutes ago, Devron44 said:
Last I checked he had a pretty good year in the AHL. Personally I’m not sold he will make it either but it’s not like he sucked since WHL
It was a OK year and I don't see the AHL developing to many good players that weren't good to start with. The AHL like the Canadian junior system is to water down. And it shows the worse in the WHL, QMJHL is not to far behind. The deepest developmental leagues right now are OHL and USHL. With the US college leagues being pretty good as well do to the fact when those guys go un-draft they get to an older age and it is easier to see what the player will actually be like
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25 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said:
Hope Kole Lind can get some time with the Kraken next season so he can make more than the $70K in the minors. Good luck to Kole Lind.
"Why isn't anyone taking Kole Lind?" - Jim Benning. Still one of the funniest lines to me (for some odd reason) from the draft floor.
Because he played WHL and lately that league sucks. Offensive players are all over inflated. I would consider BCHL better right now over the WHL.
Kole Lind will amount to nothing
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3 hours ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said:
can't see quinn getting any less than 8 mil with these contracts. good news is we likely get him long term.
This is Nurse's 3rd contract as little baring on Hughes contract.
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2 hours ago, lmm said:
I agree
looking forward to what he can do in Columbus
We are lucky Jim didn't trade Horvat for a bag of pucks
Gaunce seemed to get the "Other guys Pick " treatment
It will be interesting to compare Gaunce and Dickinson at the end of the year
Nothing to compare Gaunce doesn't have NHL skating abilities. Dickinson is a proven shut down guy. Gaunce needs to start in the defensive zone. If he started in the offensive zone he wouldn't be able to transition quick enough to defense. Those that can skate would fly by him. I don't deny his ability to play defense but most can see he can't skate at the NHL level. Some times it can be learned like Horvat did other times others can't get it.
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1 hour ago, IBatch said:
Pretty how much i feel too. I defend JB so much i'm sure some folks might think i have a poster of him in my room or something. But i only do it when i see something that really doesn't add up which unfortunately is all the freaking time on this site. Just because we didn't get a certain UFA at that price means absolutely zero IMO. One the players actually had to want to be here, and two is he even part of "the plan" which of course every single GM has. Comments like Benning or Uncle Jim or whatever are totally unbelievable. There are ONLY 32 jobs like his in the world, and he's survived 7 years so far. Works for a billionaire that knows more about business in one finger nail then most of us do, including me and well let's just say i'm no dummy either when it comes to that. I saw his plan one year ago at least that's what i was hoping he'd do to set this year up. Let them all go. There is no way we'd ever have a possibility of contending after what we witnessed in the Vegas series of contending going with the what he'd created. The cost was a second and Madden. Big freaking deal. It's just basic math and mostly arithmetic really. We'd have been so so so screwed if he kept those guys, he offered what the team needed to both Markstrom and Tanev. Of course they went for the money, that's what these guys always do and we shouldn't expect anything else ever.
I wasn't surprised at all that JB did something out of left field this off season. Even told my brother he would. We should all be expecting that from now on. His plan is crystal clear for me at least. And i was hoping he'd wait a year. Never thought he'd swing what he did swing at such a small cost. Should have costed 2 1sts for 12 million pre flat cap. Garland vs OEL ... differed his bad cap over six years AND replaced Edler which was no small thing. Crazy really. Why SN called us one of the three winners during the draft and we didn't even draft anyone of note lol. They get it.
Then the other side. Why bother buying out Holtby? Holbty vs Halak...well that's who Ian Clark wanted so i guess that's why. Still why.
Crystal clear that JB wants the window now. And wants to extend it for another 8-9 years. Reps in playoffs, under vanilla cap era means more chances at actually winning a cup. GMs all know this. Will it work? Of course i have doubts. But i'm sure happy he did it. And didn't think he would but at the same time not surprised he managed it either. We should all be sending thank you cards he didn't blow our pool just to go with a lesser but similar team that had bubble magic. That was by far the best gift JB has ever given us. A lot of GMs would have taken the easy road into mediocrity for 2-3 years. He did not.
You give me heck for defending JBs signings all the time. Even call me a troll some times. You just did it in my Poolman thread. Then here you defend him I have no idea where you stand. Are you a flip flopper.
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3 hours ago, iinatcc said:
Well OEL will either be paired with Myers, or Poolman. Neither of those two combinations strikes as a good Top 4 paring.
Plus as someone said from an interview Sportsnet (I forgot who it was it was probably either Patterson of Drance), the Canucks D doesn't seem to be NHL caliber
That goes to show how much the media knows
Hughes is a number 1 d-man show me 32 d-men better than him.
OEL is a #2 show me 64 D-men who are better to prove me wrong.
Hamonic, Myers and Poolman you can argue where they belong but show me 6×32=192 D-men better than them.
Even our depth players Rathbone and OJ are still mostly rookies most every has a rookie D-man in their top 6.
Schenn is a 6-7 service able nhl D-man as well show me 192 d-man better if not he is a top 6. If so show me 224 d-men better otherwise he is a top 7.
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3 hours ago, FaninMex said:
Do you honestly believe what you wrote here?
He's a hater being a hater
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1 hour ago, knucklehead91 said:
WARNING: THIS IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF READING...like...a lot...But it will be worth it
Alright Canuck fans, I want to start off by saying I wanted to get this post done in time for the NHL Entry Draft and was also hoping that we would have kept the 9th overall pick to really hype this up another notch... I hope that midway through this post, fans will come to an understanding as to why it has "taken" Benning "so long" to "rebuild" this team. Benning's strong suit is definitely drafting and many people are going to freak out and say "well why the hell is he trading draft picks if he is so strong at drafting?!"
I believe with the core we have that we are able to actually ship out draft picks at this point, so long as it returns a player of first round value and not just a Patty Marleau cap dump kinda deal.
In the past I've compared Benning's drafting to previous regime's drafting and shown just how much this organization has lacked drafting for an unbelievably long time.
In this post, the first segment will be our history of draft failure from 2005 onward up to the Horvat draft, this may open some "fans" eye's and help them understand just how bad our drafting has been prior to Benning taking over and how it led to the early struggles in the Benning era where we had nearly zero prospects in the pipes to build around. It's why when the Sedin's retired, that the true rebuild began, not when Benning took over in 2014, but 4 years later when the Sedin's retired. Which in my next post I will break down the choices, contracts and trades made by Benning and the timing of them, compared to his moves now and how the culture of the team is changing from a quick turn around rebuild to our eyes being set on being competitive.
The second segment in this post will be comparing our drafting to the entire NHL from 2014 to 2020, as the 2021 picks were not eligible to play in the NHL. There will be each team's drafting breakdown since JB took over the GM position in Vancouver. Total games played, goals, assists, points, number of 1st round picks along with their position, total draft picks and total number of games played
The third and final segment will be about Benning's time in Boston and the lead up to the 2014 draft and Benning's arrival in Vancouver.
Now keep in mind this first segment's drafting ran the entire course of the Sedin's career's and what we added after that '99 draft.... And how little we added after '04 to extend the window.
PART 1: Benning vs Nonis+Gillis regime's drafting history and Burke's
Dave Nonis: 
Vancouver Canucks
General Manager May 6, 2004 - Apr 14, 2008 Nonis's Drafts:
2004 - Cory Schneider (26th overall), Alex Edler (91st overall), Jannik Hansen (287th overall)
2005 - Luc Bourdon (RIP 10th overall), Mason Raymond (51st overall)
2006 - Michael Grabner (14th overall)
2007 - 0/6 draft picks played a single NHL shift
Total picks: 24
Total games played: 3606
Total goals: 521
Total assists: 720
Total Points: 1241
Span of 15 seasons ('05/'06 season to today)
.34 point %
Mike Gillis: Vancouver Canucks
General Manager Apr 23, 2008 - Apr 8, 2014 Gillis's Drafts:
2008 - Cody Hodgson (10th overall)
2009 - Jordan Schroeder (22nd overall) Kevin Connauton (83rd overall) - Neither are all that notable, but there was hype about Schroeder, and Connauton played 300+ games
2010 - Alex Friesen (172nd overall) 1 GP 1/5 picks played a shift in the show - Absolutely nothing notable about this draft
2011 - Nicklas Jensen (29th overall) Frankie Corrado (150th overall)
2012 - Brendan Gaunce (26th overall) Ben Hutton (147th overall)
2013 - Bo Horvat (9th overall) Hunter Shinkaruk (24th overall)
Total picks: 37
Total games played: 1954
Total goals: 278
Total assists: 423
Total points: 701
Span of 12 Seasons ('08/'09 season to today)
.36 point %
From 2004 to 2013 we had a total of 61 draft picks and of those 61 picks, the only players we were able to add to the core of the Sedin era was Edler and Horvat (Horvat came near the end of their careers). Schneider didn't last long, neither did Hodgson. Hansen was a great supporting character, but not a player who could be a top 6 guy. Horvat was still just a rookie and took couple years to develop in the NHL. That is a HUGE hit to the future when we relied heavily upon the Sedins, Burrows and Kesler, yet we were unable to add any players to that top 6 through drafting.
8 years of failed drafting plus developmental years puts us 10-11 years behind on the future. Which is where we were when Jim Benning stepped foot in the door. We had a declining and aged core, the only shiny toy we had was Bo Horvat, which has turned out to be great (and I always believed in him). So if we were to run it back and look at the Brian Burke era, we would see how he laid the entire foundation and future down for us. Nonis helped cement the core by acquiring Luongo and Gillis added the final touches, but ultimately between Gillis and Nonis, the future was surrendered by poor drafting.
Jim Benning Vancouver Canucks
General Manager May 21, 2014 - Present Draft picks who have a lot of potential and they still have a chance to become and NHLer as it is in their careers will have an asterisk next to them.
Benning's Drafts:
2014 - Jake Virtanen (6th overall), Jared McCann (24th overall), Thatcher Demko (36th overall)
2015 - Brock Boeser (23rd overall), Adam Gaudette (149th overall)
2016 - Olli Juolevi* (5th overall), Will Lockwood* (64th overall)
2017 - Elias Pettersson (5th overall), Kole Lind* (33rd overall), Jonah Gadjovich* (55th overall), Michael DiPietro* (64th overall), Jack Rathbone* (95th overall)
2018 - Quinn Hughes (7th overall), Jett Woo* (37th overall)
2019 - Vasili Podkolzin* (10th overall), Nils Hoglander (40th overall)
2020 - Joni Jurmo* (82nd overall), Jackson Kunz* (114th overall)
2021 - Danila Klimovich* (41st overall)
Some of these drafts are a little too recent to determine the outcomes of these players, but they still have some years of development to become a potential NHLer. But despite that, lets dive into how Benning's drafting has done up to this point with success in the NHL
Total picks: 48
Total games played: 1801
Total goals scored: 349
Total assists: 511
Total points: 860
Span of 7 seasons ('14-'15 to current)
.48 point %
In 7 Seasons, Benning has nearly caught Nonis' drafted players in goals, assists and points in half the amount of games, with a much higher point %. Next season he will surpass all of Nonis's drafting. He has also surpassed Gillis' draft picks in goals, assists and points. That is quite remarkable, considering some of these players from previous regime's have been drafted for 10+ years and have carved out decent careers.
Now lets run it back to the Burke era, I'm not going to get into full detail of his entire tenure, but just to put the pieces together as to what made our 2010-11 team so successful. As I'm sure all of you know.....
Burke's notable draftee's:
'99 - Daniel Sedin (2nd overall)
'99 - Henrik Sedin (3rd overall)
'01 - Kevin Bieksa (151st overall)
'03 - Ryan Kesler (23rd overall)
The first 4 core members of the 2010-11 team. Without them, we would have never had a sniff of the cup finals, they were ALL draft picks. Burke also moved Schaefer to Ottawa for Sami Salo. So far 4/5 guys that were critical in our 2010-11 run were drafted and developed by our own organization.
Now for Nonis's contributions. He was the man who gave Alex Burrows a chance and Burrow's surprised everyone and became the best line mate the Sedin's ever had. He also drafted Edler, Schneider and Hansen to add to the team. He also made the most critical move which was getting a #1 goalie and one of the best in the league.
So far we now have 7 players on that 2010-11 roster that were drafted.
I really want to emphasize on how important drafting is versus signings and trades. Drafting is the best strong suit to have as a GM. So now I'm going to list each player from the 2010-11 run and next to them will be how they were acquired, what 2 categories (traded, signed or drafted) could you build a team around? Which team would give you the best chance at winning a cup with the other 2 categories being untouched.
For example I will remove 2 categories on a 9 man roster and I'm going to try to assemble a pretty strong selection and it will all be from the 2010-11 team.
Daniel Sedin- drafted
Henrik Sedin - drafted
Schneider - drafted
Roberto Luongo - traded for
Christian Erhoff - traded for
Maximie Lapierre - traded for
Dan Hamhuis - signed
Manny Malhotra - signed
Alex Burrows - signed
For me, personally, I would remove the signed and traded for players and build my team around my draft picks.
Now lets do a 23 man roster and next to the category will be a N for Nonis, B for Burke and G for Gillis. Who had the bigger effect and who's moves had the highest impact on the best Canuck team we have ever seen?
Drafted Traded for Signed
Daniel Sedin - B Roberto Luongo - N Alexandre Burrows - N
Henrik Sedin - B Sami Salo - B Dan Hamhuis - G
Kevin Bieksa - B Christian Erhoff - G Tanner Glass - G
Ryan Kesler - B Victor Oreskovich - G Raffi Torres - G
Cory Schneider - N Maxim Lapierre - G Chris Higgins - G
Alex Edler - N Chris Higgins - G Aaron Rome - G
Jannik Hansen - N Mikael Samuelsson - G
Mason Raymond - N Chris Tanev - G
Cody Hodgson - G
Gillis may have had the most "additions" but in comparison to the core, he really did not contribute anything major. Hamhuis was big, but who doesn't want to sign with a contending team and your hometown team? I'd say Gillis made the smaller moves of everyone, but he did make many small moves that added up to a big season and a great run.
I think this is a no-brainer....... I would bet my chances on the players we drafted over the players we signed and traded for combined.
So of that 2010-11 team 9 players were drafted from '99-2010. Our starting goalie was acquired via trade however. Now why am I bringing this up?
Look at the draftee's above.... Now look at the draftee's below
Benning's core draft picks
Elias Pettersson
Brock Boeser
Quinn Hughes
Thatcher Demko
Nils Hoglander
Olli Juolevi
Jack Rathbone
Vasili Podkolzin
Michael DiPietro
- It took 3 GM's to build the 2010-11 core
- It took Benning a span of 6 drafts to draft the same type of core it took 3 GMs and 11 years.
- Benning has drafted his #1 C and #1 RW, similar to how Burke drafted his #1 C and #1 LW.
- 3 GM's prior drafted 6 FWDs, 2 D and 1 G
- Benning has drafted 4 FWDs, 3 D and 2 G
- Benning found his starting and back up goalie through drafting, whereas it took 2 GM's to draft/acquire their #1 and #2 goalies
- Benning has drafted 2 high skilled defensemen compared to the the other 3 GM's had to find them via trade or FA.
- We have drafted Hoglander who looks to be a legit 2LW and Podkolzin who if his work ethic pays off like Hoglander's, will be a 2RW. Our 2nd Line had to be built through Trade and Free Agency
Now that Juolevi is healthy and showing NHL promise, along with the hype and excitement from the same draft, Benning may have a successful NHLer in each and every single draft from 2014 to 2020. 6 consecutive drafts of landing a minimum of one NHL player. You look back at how many completely failed drafts we had from '98-'13
- 2000 NHL entry draft 5 picks, 39 GP 2G 4A 6PTS
- 2002 NHL entry draft 11 picks, 12 GP 0G 0A 0PTS
- 2007 NHL entry draft 6 picks, 0 GP
- 2010 NHL entry draft 5 picks, 1 GP 0G 0A 0PTS
- 2011 NHL entry draft 8 picks, 129GP 6G 8A 14PTS
Thats 5 years of drafting with 35 picks and only getting 181 NHL games, 8 goals and 12 assists... 20 points.... Do you understand how much this hurts the future of an organization when you COMPLETELY fail in 5 drafts in 20 years, thats without mentioning the Gaunce and Hodgson drafts. The future was grim from 2004 onward to the Horvat draft... Since 2014 the future has finally looked bright. And yes, I AM talking about the Virtanen draft, its the same draft we snagged Thatcher Demko, so yes the 2014 draft was not a complete loss. Ultimately we had 8 consecutive failed drafts from 2005 to 2012 where we didnt and anything of significance.... Mason mother f***ing Raymond was our most successful draft pick in that span of time... And his a$$ was always in a Raymond, Ballard and a 2nd package.
Burke's drafting produced 6985 games played, 1260 goals, 2463 assists and a total of 3723 points. His drafting which led to some of the greatest seasons for Vancouver had a .53 point %......Thats pretty damn close to Benning's .48 point % so I would say that the future looks quite bright.
Part 2: Benning's drafting versus the League 2014-2020
2021 Is not being used as these draft picks are not eligible to play until the 2021-22 campaign
Below is a table of each teams total picks, 1st round picks plus the spot they were selected, games played etc etc.. I'm sure you can read it and understand it.
Team Total # of picks 1st Round Picks 1st round pick ranks Draft picks to play 1 NHL game Games played Goals Assists Points COL 48 8 (23,10,10,4,16,4,16,25) 13 (27%) 913 192 338 530 CAR 59 7 (7,5,13,21,2,28,13) 16 (27%) 2138 366 591 957 FLA 50 7 (1,11,23,10,15,13,12) 13 (26%) 1392 120 279 399 PIT 35 2 (22,21) 7 (20%) 688 111 146 257 TOR 60 6 (8,4,1,17,29,15) 15 (25%) 1567 453 647 1100 WSH 37 6 (13,22,28,31,25,22) 10 (27%) 521 89 100 189 TBL 55 4 (19,27,14,27) 12 (22%) 1358 281 400 681 MIN 46 6 (18,20,15,24,12,9) 7 (15%) 988 190 254 444 CHI 56 6 (20,29,8,27,3,17) 12 (21%) 1111 215 344 559 CGY 43 5 (4,6,16,26,24) 9 (21%) 1572 277 458 735 BUF 48 7 (2,2,8,8,1,7,8) 17 (35%) 1862 415 547 962 ANA 45 6 (10,27,24,23,9,6) 13 (29%) 1878 231 416 647 CBJ 42 6 (16,8,29,3,18,21) 17 (40%) 1592 226 397 623 DAL 44 7 (14,25,3,26,13,18,30) 11 (25%) 774 128 198 326 DET 64 8 (15,19,20,9,6,30,6,4) 12 (19%) 1130 182 318 500 EDM 45 7 (3,1,4,22,10,8,14) 12 (27%) 1583 459 824 1283 MON 53 7 (26,26,9,25,3,15,16) 14 (26%) 967 80 205 285 NSH 47 5 (11,17,30,24,11) 12 (26%) 1322 266 370 636 NJD 56 7 (30,6,12,1,17,1,7) 22 (39%) 1529 236 291 527 NYI 36 6 (5,16,19,11,12,23) 11 (31%) 1169 215 368 583 NYR 54 8 (7,21,9,22,28,2,1,19) 15 (28%) 595 78 91 169 OTT 46 10 (18,21,11,28,4,26,19,3,5,28) 15 (33%) 1057 188 341 529 PHI 54 10 (17,7,24,22,2,27,14,19,14,23) 21 (39%) 1855 289 438 727 ARZ 55 8 (12,3,30,7,16,23,5,11) 19 (35%) 1975 380 496 876 SJS 47 5 (27,9,19,21,31) 13 (28%) 1291 226 334 560 WPG 44 8 (9,17,25,2,18,24,20,10) 14 (32%) 1657 483 517 1000 LAK 52 6 (29,11,20,5,22,2) 16 (31%) 1230 133 226 359 STL 48 6 (21,26,20,31,25,26) 14 (29%) 1414 210 313 523 BOS 41 8 (25,13,14,15,14,29,18,30) 19 (46%) 2242 418 636 1054 VAN 48 7 (6,24,23,5,5,7,10) 17 (35%) 1801 349 511 860 NOW BEFORE I REALLY GET DEEP INTO IT..... I just want to start by saying I FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE and understand that these draft picks have been moved around the league over the course of time..... The point is a about an organizations ability to DRAFT and DEVELOP NHL talent..... Picks that actually turn into NHL players, not just with the team that they are drafted by, but that they continue to be an NHL player. Anyways... Onwards we go.
Now I know a lot of people might look at this chart and think "why the hell wouldn't we keep our pick?!?!"... At this point right now, we already have our core and its one hell of a core. So we can afford to actually move picks, so long as it returns a 1st round type of player and an impact player. We can sacrifice a year or two of high drafting due to the core we have and the trajectory it is on, its not like we are still in a full on rebuild. We have Wingers, we have Centres, Defensemen AND Goalies, all from our own organizations drafting. A lot of these teams that have drafted high and are producing a lot, dont have the other necessities like D or goaltending. Instead they are loaded up with offence. In a few years we can add a couple more 1st round selections into the roster while we are in the "win now mode" to help extend the window and add skill on a very cheap contract that may help give the team the edge in the playoffs in a best of 7.
Since Jim Benning took over the reigns, only 6 NHL franchises draft picks have put up more points than JB's scouting department. Edmonton and Toronto are two of the 7 teams, the other five being Arizona, Buffalo, Carolina, Boston and Winnipeg. Now what do a lot of these franchises have in common? 1st overalls or the runner up prize. Vancouver has not drafted higher than the top 5 in drafting. Edmonton and Toronto are teams that won the McDavid and Matthews sweepstakes. They also took home the consolation prizes of Marner and Draisaitl in the top 5. Buffalo also took home the runner up of the McDavid draft and landed Jack Eichel, but lets not forget that they also won the second coming of Bobby Orr, Rasmus Dahlin. A player that was head and shoulders above anyone else in his draft and was talked about like he was the next EK65 on steroids. Carolina took home a runner up prize in 2018 with Svechnikov. The Winterpigs lost out on Matthews, but took home Laine..... However along with Arizona the Jets and Yotes have drafted fairly well. They have landed some good players deeper in the 1st rounds. Boston did not have the same sort of high drafting as every other team listed above and I will dive into the Boston drafting later...
But lets just see how much these teams relied on their sweepstakes or runner-up prizes to makeup for there drafting.... And lets just remind ourselves that a team drafting at the top is drafting borderline 1st, 2nd and 3rd line players in the rounds following... They should be the first to get a chance to uncover a missed gem.
This is only considering draft picks from 2014 onward, there is no discussion about 2013 and prior. It is to compare Jim Benning and co. drafting, to the rest of the league over the last 7 years.
Toronto
I just couldn't wait to sh*t all over them. They have had the most draft picks in the last 7 years, yet of their league leading 60 picks, only 15 of them would go on to take a shift or two in the NHL. 25% of them, with a few years of high drafting, resulted in Matthews, Marner and Nylander..... Nothing else.
So Matthews and Marner are no doubt, excellent players and combine to be one of the best 2 players together, next to McDavid and Draisaitl (when they are put together)
Toronto's drafting
453 goals, 647 assists and 1100 points
Matthews and Marner.... combined for 302 goals (67%).....407 assists (63%) and 709pts (64%)
Without their top 2 producing players, they drop significantly and their ability to draft and produce an NHL player outside of those 2 falls off dramatically.
Edmonton
Edmonton had 459 goals, 824 assists and 1283pts from their draft picks the last 7 years.... Of that was 394 goals between McDavid and Draisaitl (86%) the assists?? 686...(83%) the overall? 1080pts (84%) Like how the f*** has Edmonton sucked for so long.... They have had 11 f***ing top 10 picks between 2007-2019...... Not to mention the 6 top 5 picks and oh ya know the 3 consecutive 1st overalls and then to top their drafting failure off with the f***ing saviour McJesus. All in the last 11 years of drafting, yet they got absolutely dusted by Winnipeg in the playoffs and Edmonton has never really sold anyone on their contender status... Everyone has just been sold on McDavid being the best player on the planet and Draisaitl.
Those are 2 teams that won 100% generational players... The new Sid and Ovi of the league. Yet outside of those guys and their consolation prizes in another year... They have only managed to find a water boy. How do you draft so bloody high yet only come up with a 2 man team for the last 5 years? Look at how WPG shut down the top line and Edmonton was absolutely f***ed and played McDavid til the wheels fell off. Matthews and Marner couldn't close out a f***ing 3-1 series lead!!! like seriously!!! WTF!!
Carolina
Their top 2 producing draft picks are a Aho and Hanifin... Aho was a hell of a steal, and without him their drafting would look even worse. Aho has 320 of Carolina's 957 points, Hanifin has 153 ponts, so of their 473 points its nearly 50%. Luckily enough Carolina is a pretty good team.
Winnipeg
They lost out on Matthews but still snagged one of the highest goal scorers in the last 5 years, Patrik Laine.... despite his success in the NHL (and this terrible season) right on his tail and not talked enough about is Kyle Connor. They have made some good use of their 1st round picks. However... They have not taken a single D-man in the top 10 since 2012 Vancouver has taken 2.... OJ has had some bad luck with back and knee surgeries, had he not had those set backs at the start of his career, he'd have 4 years of NHL experience under his belt. But outside of Ehlers and Connor, what do they have? Laine is gone so I can't include him in their future, they havent found a #1 dman or a goalie...
Arizona
Despite what everyone thinks of them, has actually done a decent job of drafting and producing NHL players. 35% of their draft picks will play in the NHL at some point, just like Vancouver's drafting (Which is tied for 3rd highest percentage) And funny enough, they actually seem to score at the same rate. Arizona never had a runner up prize and franchise altering player like McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Draisaitl etc. Their best "prize" was Strome, who kinda seems to be a let down. Despite their 3rd overall pick not turning out to be a stud and getting shipped off, they have still managed to find some decent NHL talent, but outside of Chychrun and Keller. 7 of their draftee's have gone on to play over 100 games in the NHL 6 of them playing over 200 games. Not too bad.
Buffalo
Now for Buffalo....what...in....the....F*** is going on in that organization??!??!?!?!?!? How do you have 7 TOP 10 PICKS.... sorry.... SEV...IN.....TOP...PUH... 10...PIX! A 1st, 2 2nds a 7th and 3 8th overall picks and wind up as brutally sh*tty as they are.... Without Eichel and Reinhart..... their ability to draft a f***ing NHL or AHL player is pretty much zero. Just like Deadmonton and the Maple Laughs.. 650 points between Eichel and Reinhart of the total 957 points for Buffalo's drafting.... And thats with 13 players drafted in the top 40!! So if you didnt count Eichel, Dahlin and Reinhart, they have 10 more picks in the top 40..... They havent drafted a good OR sh*t quality NHL player.... Its pretty much non-existent outside of the 3 guys they drafted and now they just got rid of one of the guys who puts up a fair chunk of their points and ontop of that Eichel wants out and has some sort of neck issues and they do not have any draft picks to help overcome these obstacles. That place is a f***ing disaster.Vancouver, without our top 2 producers from JB's drafting (Petey and Boeser) we would lose 43% of our point production from our drafted players.... Which is a far f***ing cry from 60%+ from Edmonton, Toronto and Buffalo... Who have all drafted in the very top for multiple years.
Only 6 organizations to have produced more NHL games from their drafting than Vancouver. Those teams being Carolina, Buffalo, Anaheim, Philadelphia, Arizona and Boston.
Boston and Carolina both broke the 2k+ games played by draft picks since 2014. Which is very impressive. But with a healthy Juolevi, Boeser and Pettersson, we would have also broke that 2k games played without a doubt. As for the newly mentioned teams (in the last few paragraphs) Anaheim and Philadelphia, they have more games played, but less goals, assists, points etc.....Philly has had 10 1st round picks since 2014, Anaheim has had 9, compared to Vancouver's 7. Kinda odd how Edmonton and Toronto who have drafted so high for several years aren't mentioned in this paragraph eh?
Now lets bring a few teams who have drafted very high and have not been mentioned yet. NJD, NYR, LAK, OTT, DET and MON.... These teams have all had top 5 picks, some have had 1st overall's, runner-ups or some of these teams have had a boatload of 1st round picks, upwards of 10 1st round picks in the last 7 years. Yet if you look at their ability to 1) draft and develop an NHL player, 2) draft anything outside the 1st round and 3) get production out of their draft picks, its quite alarming if I was a fan of those franchises. The futures do not look bright for anyone other than Ottawa in that pile of sh*t drafting. The rest are looking quite grim in terms of the future youth.
I believe I have mentioned over 15 teams at this point..... And yet most of them are for bad reasons, only a couple for good reasons in terms of their future. The rest are unmentioned because they dont need to be mentioned and thats not a good thing either. A lot of them are of course winning franchises right now, but their windows are either over, coming to an end and they are soon to be like the Mike Gillis wastelands.... empty and barren...
If our youth is better than almost half the youth around the league that has been mentioned.... And the other half of the league has not even been mentioned, I would like to think that our future is very bright and very promising.
Anyways, I've said enough about our drafting compared to other teams around the league, you guys can see the charts and see for yourself just how far ahead of almost every team in the league we are in terms of drafting and developing. We are very fortunate that our 1st round picks turn out to be impact players instantaneously. We haven't had to rely on the big sweepstake consensus 1st and 2nd overall picks to produce NHL quality players, we've snagged some real gems in pretty much every draft. Sure the Virtanen draft didn't quite pan out as we hoped, but we still snagged Demko and that makes up for the first round failure.
Part 3: Drafting: Benning's departure from Boston and his arrival in Vancouver
Benning departed Boston in mid Spring of 2014. He was hired in Vancouver and the announcement was made official in May 21st, 2014.
Staff History
Jim Benning
Boston Bruins
Assistant General Manager Jul 14, 2007 - May 20, 2014 44 - 51 6 Years, 10 Months, 6 Days Vancouver Canucks
General Manager May 21, 2014 - Present 51 - 7 Years, 2 Months, 13 Days Important to note about a few dates and timelines
- May 20th 2014, Jim Benning departs Boston
- May 21st 2014, Jim Benning is hired by Vancouver
- June 27th 2014 the first round of the NHL Entry Draft takes place (This is 5 weeks after hiring Benning)
- 2008-2015 Eric Crawford was the head of scouting and Director of Player Personnel with the Vancouver Canucks
So just to touch on this quickly, the 2014 draft, known in Vancouver as the "Virtanen" and "McCann" draft was the Benning's 1st draft as we all know and that he had just joined the club in 2014.
Benning's first draft was ultimately big letdown. But in the long run we found our #1 Goalie in Demko when we look back at it. But lets look at the events leading up to the draft and the eventual outcomes since that day.
Now prior to joining Vancouver, Jim Benning was working with Boston and the upcoming draft. Boston was drafting near the bottom of the first round and they had their eyes and expectations on players much later in the round. Benning jumped ship May 21st 2014 and joined Vancouver, where he and his team had 5 weeks to come up with a game plan for the draft. 5 weeks is not much time and after hiring Benning, no other changes were really made to the organization. Still.... intact was the scouting department and who they had their eyes and sights set on their guy. Virtanen was ranked in the top 10 by many experts in the final stretch, he had all the tools and had exceptional potential to be the player coaches dreamed about. A highly skilled power forward with speed, size, hands and shot..... Just not the IQ level. Even Craig Button had JV at #6 in his final draft rankings.
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2014/06/24/tsn-2014-nhl-mock-draft-with-craig-button/
How much say did Benning have and how much studying was he able to do in 5 weeks, to say for certain Virtanen was the guy he wanted to draft? Benning had spent quite a significant amount of time debating on players much lower in the draft with Boston and now all of the sudden he goes from the bottom 10 to the top 10 of the draft and has 5 weeks to make a decision. That doesn't allow a lot of time for Benning to definitively say "this is our guy". Crawford and his scouting department had done their work and the influence to draft Virtanen and McCann was a decision made due to the amount of time invested in scouting from the Canucks organization prior to Benning's arrival. I do not believe this was a 100% Benning call, due to only being with Vancouver for 5 weeks and he was previously working with Boston and working with their scouts on different players around Boston's draft position.
Since Benning made changes to that department we have drafted quite well. Boeser, Hughes, Pettersson, Hoglander, Rathbone, Podkolzin etc. Demko was the best draft pick next to Horvat under Crawford's watch.
Don't want to believe me? Look at how our drafting has changed for the better since Crawford was removed in 2015 and then look at how Montreal's drafting has been since Crawford joined them in 2016..... YIKES.
Staff History
Eric Crawford
TEAM POSITION DATE SPAN AGE SPAN DURATION Vancouver Canucks
Director of Pro Scouting 2008 - 2013 34 - 39 5 Years Vancouver Canucks
Director of Player Personnel 2013 - 2015 39 - 41 2 Years Montreal Canadiens
Director of Pro Scouting 2016 - Present 42 - 5 Years Just keep in mind, Crawford was also the guy who was feeding Gillis his influence on picks.... Which may explain why Gillis failed to produce anything more than Horvat... and Hutton..... I guess?
Now lets look at Boston's 2014 draft and then look the the rest of their drafting after Benning departed, just remember that Benning worked with Boston right up until just prior to the draft in 2014. He would have had a fair amount of influence on these picks leading up to the 2014 draft.
2014 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2014 Entry 25 1 David Pastrnak R Sodertalje SK [Swe-1] 438 200 227 427 195 2014 Entry 56 2 Ryan Donato C Dexter School (Mass H.S.) 180 35 42 77 30 2014 Entry 116 4 Danton Heinen C Surrey Eagles [BCHL] 272 44 77 121 44 2014 Entry 146 5 Anders Bjork L U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL] 153 19 26 45 32 Boston had a pretty good draft in 2014, I think it's pretty fair to state that Benning had a helping hand in this being that he was employed 5 weeks prior to this draft, with Boston
In 2015 Boston went on to draft 3 players in the 1st round and had a total of 10 picks. Of those 10 picks, they landed Jake Debrusk in the 1st round and Brandon Carlo in the 2nd. Neither of the other 2 1st round picks played more than 50 games.
From 2015 Onward the only notable players drafted are McAvoy, Carlo and DeBrusk
2020 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2020 Entry 58 2 Mason Lohrei D Green Bay Gamblers [USHL] 2020 Entry 89 3 Trevor Kuntar L Youngstown Phantoms [USHL] 2020 Entry 151 5 Mason Langenbrunner D Eden Prairie (Minn. H.S.) 2020 Entry 182 6 Riley Duran C Lawrence Academy (Mass. H.S.) 2019 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2019 Entry 30 1 John Beecher C U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 2019 Entry 92 3 Quinn Olson L Okotoks Oilers [AJHL] 2019 Entry 154 5 Roman Bychkov D Yaroslavl [Russia Jrs.] 2019 Entry 185 6 Matias Mantykivi F Saipa [Finland Jrs.] 2019 Entry 192 7 Jake Schmaltz F Chicago Steel [USHL] 2018 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2018 Entry 57 2 Axel Andersson D Djurgarden-2 (Sweden Jrs.) 2018 Entry 77 3 Jakub Lauko L Chomutov Pirati [Czech] 2018 Entry 119 4 Curtis Hall C Youngstown Phantoms [USHL] 2018 Entry 181 6 Dustyn McFaul D Pickering Panthers [OJHL] 2018 Entry 212 7 Pavel Shen C Khanty-Mansiysk Yugra [KHL] 2017 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2017 Entry 18 1 Urho Vaakanainen D JyP HT Jyvaskyla [SM-liiga] 16 0 2 2 2 2017 Entry 53 2 Jack Studnicka C Oshawa Generals [OHL] 22 1 3 4 2 2017 Entry 111 4 Jeremy Swayman G Sioux Falls Stampede [USHL] 10 0 0 0 0 2017 Entry 173 6 Cedric Pare C Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL] 2017 Entry 195 7 Victor Berglund D MODO [Sweden-Jrs] 2017 Entry 204 7 Daniel Bukac D Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL] 2016 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2016 Entry 14 1 Charlie McAvoy D Boston University [H-East] 235 24 98 122 177 2016 Entry 29 1 Trent Frederic C U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 59 4 1 5 80 2016 Entry 49 2 Ryan Lindgren D U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 116 2 28 30 90 2016 Entry 135 5 Joona Koppanen C Ilves Jrs (Finland) 2016 Entry 136 5 Cameron Clarke D Lone Star Brahmas [NAHL] 2016 Entry 165 6 Oskar Steen C Farjestad Jrs (Sweden) 3 0 0 0 2 2015 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2015 Entry 13 1 Jakub Zboril D Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL] 44 0 9 9 18 2015 Entry 14 1 Jake DeBrusk L Swift Current Broncos [WHL] 244 67 67 134 57 2015 Entry 15 1 Zachary Senyshyn R Soo Greyhounds [OHL] 14 1 2 3 2 2015 Entry 37 2 Brandon Carlo D Tri-City Americans [WHL] 324 15 40 55 196 2015 Entry 45 2 Jakob Forsbacka-Karlsson C Omaha Lancers [USHL] 29 3 6 9 2 2015 Entry 52 2 Jeremy Lauzon D Rouyn-Noranda Huskies [QMJHL] 76 3 8 11 71 2015 Entry 75 3 Daniel Vladar G Kladno Jrs. (Czech Rep.) 5 0 0 0 0 2015 Entry 105 4 Jesse Gabrielle L Regina Pats [WHL] 2015 Entry 165 6 Cameron Hughes C U. of Wisconsin [Big-10] 2 0 0 0 0 2015 Entry 195 7 Jack Becker C Mahtomedi (Minn. H.S.) Doesn't look like Boston's future is all that exciting at this point in time.
Lets compare Bostons 2014 draft to the entire drafting from 2015 onward.
Boston's drafting from 2014-2020 generated 2242GP 418 goals 636 assists 1054 points.
Of that, the 2014 draft generated 1043GP (46.5%), 298 goals (71.2%) and 372 assists (58.4%) and the total points 670 (63.5%) Since Benning's departure, Boston's drafting has plummeted heavily. Sure they have been a strong team for many years and they draft a little lower in the draft, but in 2015 and 2016 they drafted in the 1st round 5 times. McAvoy and Debrusk being the only 2 1st rounders to become NHLers.
Boston had 3 1st round picks in 2015, Boston had 3 cracks to draft Boeser and they nearly missed out on all 3 picks. They took home DeBrusk while Benning made away like a bandit with Boeser.
I think we can all say that our drafting was changed instantaneously after removing Crawford and I think Crawfords time in Montreal just goes to prove that he was a problem here. Sure we matched Boston in games played in that 2014 draft, but our point production was smashed by them. Judd Brackett had a huge part to play in our drafting after that, but I'm sure that the drafting we have done this past 6 years will be enough to not worry about our drafting too much for a couple years. I also have faith in the group of guys in place to keep our drafting a success along the way. We have a great looking core and a lot of exciting prospects in the works, our youth is beginning to take over and the league will be at our mercy in no time at all.
I hope this brings forth hope and restores fans excitement for this franchise and the upcoming season(s). You can look around at a lot of other teams from all over the league and see that the position we are in is much, much better. Teams like Toronto, Edmonton and Buffalo who have had exceptionally high drafting and landed these superstars are nowhere further in the league than we are and their future is even scarier for their fan base. Eichel wants out, Matthews is a UFA and may just leave town, McDavid and Matthews may have priced themselves out of town..... Then there are bottom teams like Detroit and a few others that I listed that are drafting high and have almost nothing to show at all for it.
GO CANUCKS GO!!
I would also point out a lot of what you wrote goes on to tell exactly why drafting outside of the top 5 and sometimes even top 2 spots is a crap shoot.
This year they had 9th overall in a year nobody could scout properly.
One a team has built a core it is wiser to trade picks for proven players rather than to draft players. I feel a lot of people can not get there heads around the fact that drafting 18 year olds is a crap shoot in itself. Every pro league has seen #1 picks go bust. Look at the 1999 year for a prime example.
The research you did on this is incredible.
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51 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:
WARNING: THIS IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF READING...like...a lot...But it will be worth it
Alright Canuck fans, I want to start off by saying I wanted to get this post done in time for the NHL Entry Draft and was also hoping that we would have kept the 9th overall pick to really hype this up another notch... I hope that midway through this post, fans will come to an understanding as to why it has "taken" Benning "so long" to "rebuild" this team. Benning's strong suit is definitely drafting and many people are going to freak out and say "well why the hell is he trading draft picks if he is so strong at drafting?!"
I believe with the core we have that we are able to actually ship out draft picks at this point, so long as it returns a player of first round value and not just a Patty Marleau cap dump kinda deal.
In the past I've compared Benning's drafting to previous regime's drafting and shown just how much this organization has lacked drafting for an unbelievably long time.
In this post, the first segment will be our history of draft failure from 2005 onward up to the Horvat draft, this may open some "fans" eye's and help them understand just how bad our drafting has been prior to Benning taking over and how it led to the early struggles in the Benning era where we had nearly zero prospects in the pipes to build around. It's why when the Sedin's retired, that the true rebuild began, not when Benning took over in 2014, but 4 years later when the Sedin's retired. Which in my next post I will break down the choices, contracts and trades made by Benning and the timing of them, compared to his moves now and how the culture of the team is changing from a quick turn around rebuild to our eyes being set on being competitive.
The second segment in this post will be comparing our drafting to the entire NHL from 2014 to 2020, as the 2021 picks were not eligible to play in the NHL. There will be each team's drafting breakdown since JB took over the GM position in Vancouver. Total games played, goals, assists, points, number of 1st round picks along with their position, total draft picks and total number of games played
The third and final segment will be about Benning's time in Boston and the lead up to the 2014 draft and Benning's arrival in Vancouver.
Now keep in mind this first segment's drafting ran the entire course of the Sedin's career's and what we added after that '99 draft.... And how little we added after '04 to extend the window.
PART 1: Benning vs Nonis+Gillis regime's drafting history and Burke's
Dave Nonis: Vancouver Canucks
General Manager May 6, 2004 - Apr 14, 2008 Nonis's Drafts:
2004 - Cory Schneider (26th overall), Alex Edler (91st overall), Jannik Hansen (287th overall)
2005 - Luc Bourdon (RIP 10th overall), Mason Raymond (51st overall)
2006 - Michael Grabner (14th overall)
2007 - 0/6 draft picks played a single NHL shift
Total picks: 24
Total games played: 3606
Total goals: 521
Total assists: 720
Total Points: 1241
Span of 15 seasons ('05/'06 season to today)
.34 point %
Mike Gillis: Vancouver Canucks
General Manager Apr 23, 2008 - Apr 8, 2014 Gillis's Drafts:
2008 - Cody Hodgson (10th overall)
2009 - Jordan Schroeder (22nd overall) Kevin Connauton (83rd overall) - Neither are all that notable, but there was hype about Schroeder, and Connauton played 300+ games
2010 - Alex Friesen (172nd overall) 1 GP 1/5 picks played a shift in the show - Absolutely nothing notable about this draft
2011 - Nicklas Jensen (29th overall) Frankie Corrado (150th overall)
2012 - Brendan Gaunce (26th overall) Ben Hutton (147th overall)
2013 - Bo Horvat (9th overall) Hunter Shinkaruk (24th overall)
Total picks: 37
Total games played: 1954
Total goals: 278
Total assists: 423
Total points: 701
Span of 12 Seasons ('08/'09 season to today)
.36 point %
From 2004 to 2013 we had a total of 61 draft picks and of those 61 picks, the only players we were able to add to the core of the Sedin era was Edler and Horvat (Horvat came near the end of their careers). Schneider didn't last long, neither did Hodgson. Hansen was a great supporting character, but not a player who could be a top 6 guy. Horvat was still just a rookie and took couple years to develop in the NHL. That is a HUGE hit to the future when we relied heavily upon the Sedins, Burrows and Kesler, yet we were unable to add any players to that top 6 through drafting.
8 years of failed drafting plus developmental years puts us 10-11 years behind on the future. Which is where we were when Jim Benning stepped foot in the door. We had a declining and aged core, the only shiny toy we had was Bo Horvat, which has turned out to be great (and I always believed in him). So if we were to run it back and look at the Brian Burke era, we would see how he laid the entire foundation and future down for us. Nonis helped cement the core by acquiring Luongo and Gillis added the final touches, but ultimately between Gillis and Nonis, the future was surrendered by poor drafting.
Jim Benning Vancouver Canucks
General Manager May 21, 2014 - Present Draft picks who have a lot of potential and they still have a chance to become and NHLer as it is in their careers will have an asterisk next to them.
Benning's Drafts:
2014 - Jake Virtanen (6th overall), Jared McCann (24th overall), Thatcher Demko (36th overall)
2015 - Brock Boeser (23rd overall), Adam Gaudette (149th overall)
2016 - Olli Juolevi* (5th overall), Will Lockwood* (64th overall)
2017 - Elias Pettersson (5th overall), Kole Lind* (33rd overall), Jonah Gadjovich* (55th overall), Michael DiPietro* (64th overall), Jack Rathbone* (95th overall)
2018 - Quinn Hughes (7th overall), Jett Woo* (37th overall)
2019 - Vasili Podkolzin* (10th overall), Nils Hoglander (40th overall)
2020 - Joni Jurmo* (82nd overall), Jackson Kunz* (114th overall)
2021 - Danila Klimovich* (41st overall)
Some of these drafts are a little too recent to determine the outcomes of these players, but they still have some years of development to become a potential NHLer. But despite that, lets dive into how Benning's drafting has done up to this point with success in the NHL
Total picks: 48
Total games played: 1801
Total goals scored: 349
Total assists: 511
Total points: 860
Span of 7 seasons ('14-'15 to current)
.48 point %
In 7 Seasons, Benning has nearly caught Nonis' drafted players in goals, assists and points in half the amount of games, with a much higher point %. Next season he will surpass all of Nonis's drafting. He has also surpassed Gillis' draft picks in goals, assists and points. That is quite remarkable, considering some of these players from previous regime's have been drafted for 10+ years and have carved out decent careers.
Now lets run it back to the Burke era, I'm not going to get into full detail of his entire tenure, but just to put the pieces together as to what made our 2010-11 team so successful. As I'm sure all of you know.....
Burke's notable draftee's:
'99 - Daniel Sedin (2nd overall)
'99 - Henrik Sedin (3rd overall)
'01 - Kevin Bieksa (151st overall)
'03 - Ryan Kesler (23rd overall)
The first 4 core members of the 2010-11 team. Without them, we would have never had a sniff of the cup finals, they were ALL draft picks. Burke also moved Schaefer to Ottawa for Sami Salo. So far 4/5 guys that were critical in our 2010-11 run were drafted and developed by our own organization.
Now for Nonis's contributions. He was the man who gave Alex Burrows a chance and Burrow's surprised everyone and became the best line mate the Sedin's ever had. He also drafted Edler, Schneider and Hansen to add to the team. He also made the most critical move which was getting a #1 goalie and one of the best in the league.
So far we now have 7 players on that 2010-11 roster that were drafted.
I really want to emphasize on how important drafting is versus signings and trades. Drafting is the best strong suit to have as a GM. So now I'm going to list each player from the 2010-11 run and next to them will be how they were acquired, what 2 categories (traded, signed or drafted) could you build a team around? Which team would give you the best chance at winning a cup with the other 2 categories being untouched.
For example I will remove 2 categories on a 9 man roster and I'm going to try to assemble a pretty strong selection and it will all be from the 2010-11 team.
Daniel Sedin- drafted
Henrik Sedin - drafted
Schneider - drafted
Roberto Luongo - traded for
Christian Erhoff - traded for
Maximie Lapierre - traded for
Dan Hamhuis - signed
Manny Malhotra - signed
Alex Burrows - signed
For me, personally, I would remove the signed and traded for players and build my team around my draft picks.
Now lets do a 23 man roster and next to the category will be a N for Nonis, B for Burke and G for Gillis. Who had the bigger effect and who's moves had the highest impact on the best Canuck team we have ever seen?
Drafted Traded for Signed
Daniel Sedin - B Roberto Luongo - N Alexandre Burrows - N
Henrik Sedin - B Sami Salo - B Dan Hamhuis - G
Kevin Bieksa - B Christian Erhoff - G Tanner Glass - G
Ryan Kesler - B Victor Oreskovich - G Raffi Torres - G
Cory Schneider - N Maxim Lapierre - G Chris Higgins - G
Alex Edler - N Chris Higgins - G Aaron Rome - G
Jannik Hansen - N Mikael Samuelsson - G
Mason Raymond - N Chris Tanev - G
Cody Hodgson - G
Gillis may have had the most "additions" but in comparison to the core, he really did not contribute anything major. Hamhuis was big, but who doesn't want to sign with a contending team and your hometown team? I'd say Gillis made the smaller moves of everyone, but he did make many small moves that added up to a big season and a great run.
I think this is a no-brainer....... I would bet my chances on the players we drafted over the players we signed and traded for combined.
So of that 2010-11 team 9 players were drafted from '99-2010. Our starting goalie was acquired via trade however. Now why am I bringing this up?
Look at the draftee's above.... Now look at the draftee's below
Benning's core draft picks
Elias Pettersson
Brock Boeser
Quinn Hughes
Thatcher Demko
Nils Hoglander
Olli Juolevi
Jack Rathbone
Vasili Podkolzin
Michael DiPietro
- It took 3 GM's to build the 2010-11 core
- It took Benning a span of 6 drafts to draft the same type of core it took 3 GMs and 11 years.
- Benning has drafted his #1 C and #1 RW, similar to how Burke drafted his #1 C and #1 LW.
- 3 GM's prior drafted 6 FWDs, 2 D and 1 G
- Benning has drafted 4 FWDs, 3 D and 2 G
- Benning found his starting and back up goalie through drafting, whereas it took 2 GM's to draft/acquire their #1 and #2 goalies
- Benning has drafted 2 high skilled defensemen compared to the the other 3 GM's had to find them via trade or FA.
- We have drafted Hoglander who looks to be a legit 2LW and Podkolzin who if his work ethic pays off like Hoglander's, will be a 2RW. Our 2nd Line had to be built through Trade and Free Agency
Now that Juolevi is healthy and showing NHL promise, along with the hype and excitement from the same draft, Benning may have a successful NHLer in each and every single draft from 2014 to 2020. 6 consecutive drafts of landing a minimum of one NHL player. You look back at how many completely failed drafts we had from '98-'13
- 2000 NHL entry draft 5 picks, 39 GP 2G 4A 6PTS
- 2002 NHL entry draft 11 picks, 12 GP 0G 0A 0PTS
- 2007 NHL entry draft 6 picks, 0 GP
- 2010 NHL entry draft 5 picks, 1 GP 0G 0A 0PTS
- 2011 NHL entry draft 8 picks, 129GP 6G 8A 14PTS
Thats 5 years of drafting with 35 picks and only getting 181 NHL games, 8 goals and 12 assists... 20 points.... Do you understand how much this hurts the future of an organization when you COMPLETELY fail in 5 drafts in 20 years, thats without mentioning the Gaunce and Hodgson drafts. The future was grim from 2004 onward to the Horvat draft... Since 2014 the future has finally looked bright. And yes, I AM talking about the Virtanen draft, its the same draft we snagged Thatcher Demko, so yes the 2014 draft was not a complete loss. Ultimately we had 8 consecutive failed drafts from 2005 to 2012 where we didnt and anything of significance.... Mason mother f***ing Raymond was our most successful draft pick in that span of time... And his a$$ was always in a Raymond, Ballard and a 2nd package.
Burke's drafting produced 6985 games played, 1260 goals, 2463 assists and a total of 3723 points. His drafting which led to some of the greatest seasons for Vancouver had a .53 point %......Thats pretty damn close to Benning's .48 point % so I would say that the future looks quite bright.
Part 2: Benning's drafting versus the League 2014-2020
2021 Is not being used as these draft picks are not eligible to play until the 2021-22 campaign
Below is a table of each teams total picks, 1st round picks plus the spot they were selected, games played etc etc.. I'm sure you can read it and understand it.
Team Total # of picks 1st Round Picks 1st round pick ranks Draft picks to play 1 NHL game Games played Goals Assists Points COL 48 8 (23,10,10,4,16,4,16,25) 13 (27%) 913 192 338 530 CAR 59 7 (7,5,13,21,2,28,13) 16 (27%) 2138 366 591 957 FLA 50 7 (1,11,23,10,15,13,12) 13 (26%) 1392 120 279 399 PIT 35 2 (22,21) 7 (20%) 688 111 146 257 TOR 60 6 (8,4,1,17,29,15) 15 (25%) 1567 453 647 1100 WSH 37 6 (13,22,28,31,25,22) 10 (27%) 521 89 100 189 TBL 55 4 (19,27,14,27) 12 (22%) 1358 281 400 681 MIN 46 6 (18,20,15,24,12,9) 7 (15%) 988 190 254 444 CHI 56 6 (20,29,8,27,3,17) 12 (21%) 1111 215 344 559 CGY 43 5 (4,6,16,26,24) 9 (21%) 1572 277 458 735 BUF 48 7 (2,2,8,8,1,7,8) 17 (35%) 1862 415 547 962 ANA 45 6 (10,27,24,23,9,6) 13 (29%) 1878 231 416 647 CBJ 42 6 (16,8,29,3,18,21) 17 (40%) 1592 226 397 623 DAL 44 7 (14,25,3,26,13,18,30) 11 (25%) 774 128 198 326 DET 64 8 (15,19,20,9,6,30,6,4) 12 (19%) 1130 182 318 500 EDM 45 7 (3,1,4,22,10,8,14) 12 (27%) 1583 459 824 1283 MON 53 7 (26,26,9,25,3,15,16) 14 (26%) 967 80 205 285 NSH 47 5 (11,17,30,24,11) 12 (26%) 1322 266 370 636 NJD 56 7 (30,6,12,1,17,1,7) 22 (39%) 1529 236 291 527 NYI 36 6 (5,16,19,11,12,23) 11 (31%) 1169 215 368 583 NYR 54 8 (7,21,9,22,28,2,1,19) 15 (28%) 595 78 91 169 OTT 46 10 (18,21,11,28,4,26,19,3,5,28) 15 (33%) 1057 188 341 529 PHI 54 10 (17,7,24,22,2,27,14,19,14,23) 21 (39%) 1855 289 438 727 ARZ 55 8 (12,3,30,7,16,23,5,11) 19 (35%) 1975 380 496 876 SJS 47 5 (27,9,19,21,31) 13 (28%) 1291 226 334 560 WPG 44 8 (9,17,25,2,18,24,20,10) 14 (32%) 1657 483 517 1000 LAK 52 6 (29,11,20,5,22,2) 16 (31%) 1230 133 226 359 STL 48 6 (21,26,20,31,25,26) 14 (29%) 1414 210 313 523 BOS 41 8 (25,13,14,15,14,29,18,30) 19 (46%) 2242 418 636 1054 VAN 48 7 (6,24,23,5,5,7,10) 17 (35%) 1801 349 511 860 NOW BEFORE I REALLY GET DEEP INTO IT..... I just want to start by saying I FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE and understand that these draft picks have been moved around the league over the course of time..... The point is a about an organizations ability to DRAFT and DEVELOP NHL talent..... Picks that actually turn into NHL players, not just with the team that they are drafted by, but that they continue to be an NHL player. Anyways... Onwards we go.
Now I know a lot of people might look at this chart and think "why the hell wouldn't we keep our pick?!?!"... At this point right now, we already have our core and its one hell of a core. So we can afford to actually move picks, so long as it returns a 1st round type of player and an impact player. We can sacrifice a year or two of high drafting due to the core we have and the trajectory it is on, its not like we are still in a full on rebuild. We have Wingers, we have Centres, Defensemen AND Goalies, all from our own organizations drafting. A lot of these teams that have drafted high and are producing a lot, dont have the other necessities like D or goaltending. Instead they are loaded up with offence. In a few years we can add a couple more 1st round selections into the roster while we are in the "win now mode" to help extend the window and add skill on a very cheap contract that may help give the team the edge in the playoffs in a best of 7.
Since Jim Benning took over the reigns, only 6 NHL franchises draft picks have put up more points than JB's scouting department. Edmonton and Toronto are two of the 7 teams, the other five being Arizona, Buffalo, Carolina, Boston and Winnipeg. Now what do a lot of these franchises have in common? 1st overalls or the runner up prize. Vancouver has not drafted higher than the top 5 in drafting. Edmonton and Toronto are teams that won the McDavid and Matthews sweepstakes. They also took home the consolation prizes of Marner and Draisaitl in the top 5. Buffalo also took home the runner up of the McDavid draft and landed Jack Eichel, but lets not forget that they also won the second coming of Bobby Orr, Rasmus Dahlin. A player that was head and shoulders above anyone else in his draft and was talked about like he was the next EK65 on steroids. Carolina took home a runner up prize in 2018 with Svechnikov. The Winterpigs lost out on Matthews, but took home Laine..... However along with Arizona the Jets and Yotes have drafted fairly well. They have landed some good players deeper in the 1st rounds. Boston did not have the same sort of high drafting as every other team listed above and I will dive into the Boston drafting later...
But lets just see how much these teams relied on their sweepstakes or runner-up prizes to makeup for there drafting.... And lets just remind ourselves that a team drafting at the top is drafting borderline 1st, 2nd and 3rd line players in the rounds following... They should be the first to get a chance to uncover a missed gem.
This is only considering draft picks from 2014 onward, there is no discussion about 2013 and prior. It is to compare Jim Benning and co. drafting, to the rest of the league over the last 7 years.
Toronto
I just couldn't wait to sh*t all over them. They have had the most draft picks in the last 7 years, yet of their league leading 60 picks, only 15 of them would go on to take a shift or two in the NHL. 25% of them, with a few years of high drafting, resulted in Matthews, Marner and Nylander..... Nothing else.
So Matthews and Marner are no doubt, excellent players and combine to be one of the best 2 players together, next to McDavid and Draisaitl (when they are put together)
Toronto's drafting
453 goals, 647 assists and 1100 points
Matthews and Marner.... combined for 302 goals (67%).....407 assists (63%) and 709pts (64%)
Without their top 2 producing players, they drop significantly and their ability to draft and produce an NHL player outside of those 2 falls off dramatically.
Edmonton
Edmonton had 459 goals, 824 assists and 1283pts from their draft picks the last 7 years.... Of that was 394 goals between McDavid and Draisaitl (86%) the assists?? 686...(83%) the overall? 1080pts (84%) Like how the f*** has Edmonton sucked for so long.... They have had 11 f***ing top 10 picks between 2007-2019...... Not to mention the 6 top 5 picks and oh ya know the 3 consecutive 1st overalls and then to top their drafting failure off with the f***ing saviour McJesus. All in the last 11 years of drafting, yet they got absolutely dusted by Winnipeg in the playoffs and Edmonton has never really sold anyone on their contender status... Everyone has just been sold on McDavid being the best player on the planet and Draisaitl.
Those are 2 teams that won 100% generational players... The new Sid and Ovi of the league. Yet outside of those guys and their consolation prizes in another year... They have only managed to find a water boy. How do you draft so bloody high yet only come up with a 2 man team for the last 5 years? Look at how WPG shut down the top line and Edmonton was absolutely f***ed and played McDavid til the wheels fell off. Matthews and Marner couldn't close out a f***ing 3-1 series lead!!! like seriously!!! WTF!!
Carolina
Their top 2 producing draft picks are a Aho and Hanifin... Aho was a hell of a steal, and without him their drafting would look even worse. Aho has 320 of Carolina's 957 points, Hanifin has 153 ponts, so of their 473 points its nearly 50%. Luckily enough Carolina is a pretty good team.
Winnipeg
They lost out on Matthews but still snagged one of the highest goal scorers in the last 5 years, Patrik Laine.... despite his success in the NHL (and this terrible season) right on his tail and not talked enough about is Kyle Connor. They have made some good use of their 1st round picks. However... They have not taken a single D-man in the top 10 since 2012 Vancouver has taken 2.... OJ has had some bad luck with back and knee surgeries, had he not had those set backs at the start of his career, he'd have 4 years of NHL experience under his belt. But outside of Ehlers and Connor, what do they have? Laine is gone so I can't include him in their future, they havent found a #1 dman or a goalie...
Arizona
Despite what everyone thinks of them, has actually done a decent job of drafting and producing NHL players. 35% of their draft picks will play in the NHL at some point, just like Vancouver's drafting (Which is tied for 3rd highest percentage) And funny enough, they actually seem to score at the same rate. Arizona never had a runner up prize and franchise altering player like McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Draisaitl etc. Their best "prize" was Strome, who kinda seems to be a let down. Despite their 3rd overall pick not turning out to be a stud and getting shipped off, they have still managed to find some decent NHL talent, but outside of Chychrun and Keller. 7 of their draftee's have gone on to play over 100 games in the NHL 6 of them playing over 200 games. Not too bad.
Buffalo
Now for Buffalo....what...in....the....F*** is going on in that organization??!??!?!?!?!? How do you have 7 TOP 10 PICKS.... sorry.... SEV...IN.....TOP...PUH... 10...PIX! A 1st, 2 2nds a 7th and 3 8th overall picks and wind up as brutally sh*tty as they are.... Without Eichel and Reinhart..... their ability to draft a f***ing NHL or AHL player is pretty much zero. Just like Deadmonton and the Maple Laughs.. 650 points between Eichel and Reinhart of the total 957 points for Buffalo's drafting.... And thats with 13 players drafted in the top 40!! So if you didnt count Eichel, Dahlin and Reinhart, they have 10 more picks in the top 40..... They havent drafted a good OR sh*t quality NHL player.... Its pretty much non-existent outside of the 3 guys they drafted and now they just got rid of one of the guys who puts up a fair chunk of their points and ontop of that Eichel wants out and has some sort of neck issues and they do not have any draft picks to help overcome these obstacles. That place is a f***ing disaster.Vancouver, without our top 2 producers from JB's drafting (Petey and Boeser) we would lose 43% of our point production from our drafted players.... Which is a far f***ing cry from 60%+ from Edmonton, Toronto and Buffalo... Who have all drafted in the very top for multiple years.
Only 6 organizations to have produced more NHL games from their drafting than Vancouver. Those teams being Carolina, Buffalo, Anaheim, Philadelphia, Arizona and Boston.
Boston and Carolina both broke the 2k+ games played by draft picks since 2014. Which is very impressive. But with a healthy Juolevi, Boeser and Pettersson, we would have also broke that 2k games played without a doubt. As for the newly mentioned teams (in the last few paragraphs) Anaheim and Philadelphia, they have more games played, but less goals, assists, points etc.....Philly has had 10 1st round picks since 2014, Anaheim has had 9, compared to Vancouver's 7. Kinda odd how Edmonton and Toronto who have drafted so high for several years aren't mentioned in this paragraph eh?
Now lets bring a few teams who have drafted very high and have not been mentioned yet. NJD, NYR, LAK, OTT, DET and MON.... These teams have all had top 5 picks, some have had 1st overall's, runner-ups or some of these teams have had a boatload of 1st round picks, upwards of 10 1st round picks in the last 7 years. Yet if you look at their ability to 1) draft and develop an NHL player, 2) draft anything outside the 1st round and 3) get production out of their draft picks, its quite alarming if I was a fan of those franchises. The futures do not look bright for anyone other than Ottawa in that pile of sh*t drafting. The rest are looking quite grim in terms of the future youth.
I believe I have mentioned over 15 teams at this point..... And yet most of them are for bad reasons, only a couple for good reasons in terms of their future. The rest are unmentioned because they dont need to be mentioned and thats not a good thing either. A lot of them are of course winning franchises right now, but their windows are either over, coming to an end and they are soon to be like the Mike Gillis wastelands.... empty and barren...
If our youth is better than almost half the youth around the league that has been mentioned.... And the other half of the league has not even been mentioned, I would like to think that our future is very bright and very promising.
Anyways, I've said enough about our drafting compared to other teams around the league, you guys can see the charts and see for yourself just how far ahead of almost every team in the league we are in terms of drafting and developing. We are very fortunate that our 1st round picks turn out to be impact players instantaneously. We haven't had to rely on the big sweepstake consensus 1st and 2nd overall picks to produce NHL quality players, we've snagged some real gems in pretty much every draft. Sure the Virtanen draft didn't quite pan out as we hoped, but we still snagged Demko and that makes up for the first round failure.
Part 3: Drafting: Benning's departure from Boston and his arrival in Vancouver
Benning departed Boston in mid Spring of 2014. He was hired in Vancouver and the announcement was made official in May 21st, 2014.
Staff History
Jim Benning
Boston Bruins
Assistant General Manager Jul 14, 2007 - May 20, 2014 44 - 51 6 Years, 10 Months, 6 Days Vancouver Canucks
General Manager May 21, 2014 - Present 51 - 7 Years, 2 Months, 13 Days Important to note about a few dates and timelines
- May 20th 2014, Jim Benning departs Boston
- May 21st 2014, Jim Benning is hired by Vancouver
- June 27th 2014 the first round of the NHL Entry Draft takes place (This is 5 weeks after hiring Benning)
- 2008-2015 Eric Crawford was the head of scouting and Director of Player Personnel with the Vancouver Canucks
So just to touch on this quickly, the 2014 draft, known in Vancouver as the "Virtanen" and "McCann" draft was the Benning's 1st draft as we all know and that he had just joined the club in 2014.
Benning's first draft was ultimately big letdown. But in the long run we found our #1 Goalie in Demko when we look back at it. But lets look at the events leading up to the draft and the eventual outcomes since that day.
Now prior to joining Vancouver, Jim Benning was working with Boston and the upcoming draft. Boston was drafting near the bottom of the first round and they had their eyes and expectations on players much later in the round. Benning jumped ship May 21st 2014 and joined Vancouver, where he and his team had 5 weeks to come up with a game plan for the draft. 5 weeks is not much time and after hiring Benning, no other changes were really made to the organization. Still.... intact was the scouting department and who they had their eyes and sights set on their guy. Virtanen was ranked in the top 10 by many experts in the final stretch, he had all the tools and had exceptional potential to be the player coaches dreamed about. A highly skilled power forward with speed, size, hands and shot..... Just not the IQ level. Even Craig Button had JV at #6 in his final draft rankings.
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2014/06/24/tsn-2014-nhl-mock-draft-with-craig-button/
How much say did Benning have and how much studying was he able to do in 5 weeks, to say for certain Virtanen was the guy he wanted to draft? Benning had spent quite a significant amount of time debating on players much lower in the draft with Boston and now all of the sudden he goes from the bottom 10 to the top 10 of the draft and has 5 weeks to make a decision. That doesn't allow a lot of time for Benning to definitively say "this is our guy". Crawford and his scouting department had done their work and the influence to draft Virtanen and McCann was a decision made due to the amount of time invested in scouting from the Canucks organization prior to Benning's arrival. I do not believe this was a 100% Benning call, due to only being with Vancouver for 5 weeks and he was previously working with Boston and working with their scouts on different players around Boston's draft position.
Since Benning made changes to that department we have drafted quite well. Boeser, Hughes, Pettersson, Hoglander, Rathbone, Podkolzin etc. Demko was the best draft pick next to Horvat under Crawford's watch.
Don't want to believe me? Look at how our drafting has changed for the better since Crawford was removed in 2015 and then look at how Montreal's drafting has been since Crawford joined them in 2016..... YIKES.
Staff History
Eric Crawford
TEAM POSITION DATE SPAN AGE SPAN DURATION Vancouver Canucks
Director of Pro Scouting 2008 - 2013 34 - 39 5 Years Vancouver Canucks
Director of Player Personnel 2013 - 2015 39 - 41 2 Years Montreal Canadiens
Director of Pro Scouting 2016 - Present 42 - 5 Years Just keep in mind, Crawford was also the guy who was feeding Gillis his influence on picks.... Which may explain why Gillis failed to produce anything more than Horvat... and Hutton..... I guess?
Now lets look at Boston's 2014 draft and then look the the rest of their drafting after Benning departed, just remember that Benning worked with Boston right up until just prior to the draft in 2014. He would have had a fair amount of influence on these picks leading up to the 2014 draft.
2014 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2014 Entry 25 1 David Pastrnak R Sodertalje SK [Swe-1] 438 200 227 427 195 2014 Entry 56 2 Ryan Donato C Dexter School (Mass H.S.) 180 35 42 77 30 2014 Entry 116 4 Danton Heinen C Surrey Eagles [BCHL] 272 44 77 121 44 2014 Entry 146 5 Anders Bjork L U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL] 153 19 26 45 32 Boston had a pretty good draft in 2014, I think it's pretty fair to state that Benning had a helping hand in this being that he was employed 5 weeks prior to this draft, with Boston
In 2015 Boston went on to draft 3 players in the 1st round and had a total of 10 picks. Of those 10 picks, they landed Jake Debrusk in the 1st round and Brandon Carlo in the 2nd. Neither of the other 2 1st round picks played more than 50 games.
From 2015 Onward the only notable players drafted are McAvoy, Carlo and DeBrusk
2020 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2020 Entry 58 2 Mason Lohrei D Green Bay Gamblers [USHL] 2020 Entry 89 3 Trevor Kuntar L Youngstown Phantoms [USHL] 2020 Entry 151 5 Mason Langenbrunner D Eden Prairie (Minn. H.S.) 2020 Entry 182 6 Riley Duran C Lawrence Academy (Mass. H.S.) 2019 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2019 Entry 30 1 John Beecher C U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 2019 Entry 92 3 Quinn Olson L Okotoks Oilers [AJHL] 2019 Entry 154 5 Roman Bychkov D Yaroslavl [Russia Jrs.] 2019 Entry 185 6 Matias Mantykivi F Saipa [Finland Jrs.] 2019 Entry 192 7 Jake Schmaltz F Chicago Steel [USHL] 2018 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2018 Entry 57 2 Axel Andersson D Djurgarden-2 (Sweden Jrs.) 2018 Entry 77 3 Jakub Lauko L Chomutov Pirati [Czech] 2018 Entry 119 4 Curtis Hall C Youngstown Phantoms [USHL] 2018 Entry 181 6 Dustyn McFaul D Pickering Panthers [OJHL] 2018 Entry 212 7 Pavel Shen C Khanty-Mansiysk Yugra [KHL] 2017 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2017 Entry 18 1 Urho Vaakanainen D JyP HT Jyvaskyla [SM-liiga] 16 0 2 2 2 2017 Entry 53 2 Jack Studnicka C Oshawa Generals [OHL] 22 1 3 4 2 2017 Entry 111 4 Jeremy Swayman G Sioux Falls Stampede [USHL] 10 0 0 0 0 2017 Entry 173 6 Cedric Pare C Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL] 2017 Entry 195 7 Victor Berglund D MODO [Sweden-Jrs] 2017 Entry 204 7 Daniel Bukac D Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL] 2016 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2016 Entry 14 1 Charlie McAvoy D Boston University [H-East] 235 24 98 122 177 2016 Entry 29 1 Trent Frederic C U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 59 4 1 5 80 2016 Entry 49 2 Ryan Lindgren D U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 116 2 28 30 90 2016 Entry 135 5 Joona Koppanen C Ilves Jrs (Finland) 2016 Entry 136 5 Cameron Clarke D Lone Star Brahmas [NAHL] 2016 Entry 165 6 Oskar Steen C Farjestad Jrs (Sweden) 3 0 0 0 2 2015 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2015 Entry 13 1 Jakub Zboril D Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL] 44 0 9 9 18 2015 Entry 14 1 Jake DeBrusk L Swift Current Broncos [WHL] 244 67 67 134 57 2015 Entry 15 1 Zachary Senyshyn R Soo Greyhounds [OHL] 14 1 2 3 2 2015 Entry 37 2 Brandon Carlo D Tri-City Americans [WHL] 324 15 40 55 196 2015 Entry 45 2 Jakob Forsbacka-Karlsson C Omaha Lancers [USHL] 29 3 6 9 2 2015 Entry 52 2 Jeremy Lauzon D Rouyn-Noranda Huskies [QMJHL] 76 3 8 11 71 2015 Entry 75 3 Daniel Vladar G Kladno Jrs. (Czech Rep.) 5 0 0 0 0 2015 Entry 105 4 Jesse Gabrielle L Regina Pats [WHL] 2015 Entry 165 6 Cameron Hughes C U. of Wisconsin [Big-10] 2 0 0 0 0 2015 Entry 195 7 Jack Becker C Mahtomedi (Minn. H.S.) Doesn't look like Boston's future is all that exciting at this point in time.
Lets compare Bostons 2014 draft to the entire drafting from 2015 onward.
Boston's drafting from 2014-2020 generated 2242GP 418 goals 636 assists 1054 points.
Of that, the 2014 draft generated 1043GP (46.5%), 298 goals (71.2%) and 372 assists (58.4%) and the total points 670 (63.5%) Since Benning's departure, Boston's drafting has plummeted heavily. Sure they have been a strong team for many years and they draft a little lower in the draft, but in 2015 and 2016 they drafted in the 1st round 5 times. McAvoy and Debrusk being the only 2 1st rounders to become NHLers.
Boston had 3 1st round picks in 2015, Boston had 3 cracks to draft Boeser and they nearly missed out on all 3 picks. They took home DeBrusk while Benning made away like a bandit with Boeser.
I think we can all say that our drafting was changed instantaneously after removing Crawford and I think Crawfords time in Montreal just goes to prove that he was a problem here. Sure we matched Boston in games played in that 2014 draft, but our point production was smashed by them. Judd Brackett had a huge part to play in our drafting after that, but I'm sure that the drafting we have done this past 6 years will be enough to not worry about our drafting too much for a couple years. I also have faith in the group of guys in place to keep our drafting a success along the way. We have a great looking core and a lot of exciting prospects in the works, our youth is beginning to take over and the league will be at our mercy in no time at all.
I hope this brings forth hope and restores fans excitement for this franchise and the upcoming season(s). You can look around at a lot of other teams from all over the league and see that the position we are in is much, much better. Teams like Toronto, Edmonton and Buffalo who have had exceptionally high drafting and landed these superstars are nowhere further in the league than we are and their future is even scarier for their fan base. Eichel wants out, Matthews is a UFA and may just leave town, McDavid and Matthews may have priced themselves out of town..... Then there are bottom teams like Detroit and a few others that I listed that are drafting high and have almost nothing to show at all for it.
GO CANUCKS GO!!
Someone who really gets it
I have a post I am getting ready for the beginning of the season that will fit nicely to this topic.
Well done on your post. I completely agree
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19 minutes ago, Duodenum said:
I'd be a fool not to take that bet.
So you except
You made me do it because your comment was so negative.
Why so negative the?
Don't you want to see them win. Or are you one of those that just want to keep complaining.
I have followed the Canucks since 1992 I can say with confidence that this is one of the deepest teams they are about to ice. It will just be a matter of how quick they come together. I can see them going deep into the playoffs this season and next season this team will be the same and doing even far better.
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On 7/28/2021 at 3:15 PM, Duodenum said:
Well Hughes is bad defensively, Rathbone is a rookie, Myers is a #4-5, Poolman is a #6 dman, OEL hasn't performed well the last couple years and is a total wildcard, Schenn is a #6-7.
Myers is not gonna stay at home, that's not the player he is or ever has been.
We have no shutdown pairing and will bleed goals against. Our top 2 defensively sound defenders from last year are gone in Edler and Schmidt (Edler also our top pker).
We'll be in the bottom 10 in goals against again unless Demko has a Vezina calibre season.
The stars all have to align to make this even an average dcorps.
I will make you a bet, I will bet you $1000 to Canuck place and the loser has to post receipt to CDC as prove.
My Bet the Canucks will finish top 10 in PP, PK, fewest goals allowed, most goals for.
Do you take my Bet. I feel you won't.
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20 minutes ago, gurn said:
That seems to entirely get rid of the "under Brad Shaw" factor, so I don't know what happens to the math now.?
See interesting I found is that people who don't understand advance stats hate it. It keeps them out of the loop and they say it doesn't matter.
To a math guy the say it is the most important thing in the world.
To a guy like myself who played in the WHL and university and understands this stuff they say it has a place to play just as a great defensive couch has a place to play in the game. Advance stats tell you the mentality of an individual his he risk prone like Hughes or low risk like Tanev and everything in between. To me Poolman has the stats that say he has the mentality to be lower risk and still produce offense that is what I would call a more balanced player and there for the ability to be better than Tanev who is one dimensional. Poolman will play the defensive game give you some points and even a little grit. For me it is the other things Poolman does that will make him a better player.
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3 minutes ago, gurn said:
That seems to entirely get rid of the "under Brad Shaw" factor, so I don't know what happens to the math now.?
Nope Brad Shaw is just going to make him better than he is. Mathematically that part can't be tracked maybe year by year improvement. Brad Shaw experience and back ground in producing good Defensive teams is undeniable as pointed out by others.
That is not just going to rub off on Poolman but the whole group. As the group gets better Poolman will improve even more. It is a team sport after all
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1 hour ago, Pears said:
Not sure if this has already been posted or not but this is a really good, well done read on just what to expect from Poolman.
Great read for those that don't understand advance stats clearly. Most on this forum should give it a read
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1 hour ago, Pears said:
Not sure if this has already been posted or not but this is a really good, well done read on just what to expect from Poolman.
Yup advance stats clearly show he is a defensive defenseman.
It is just to bad that Tanav in his prime will never play with someone as bad as Morrissey to show us a direct comparable. So the best we can get is for Poolman to plan with someone Tanev did (Hughes) or someone similar to who Tanev did (OEL=Edler) play with. Therefore, as I see it if Poolman plays better with one of Hughes or OEL as Tanev did with Hughes or Edler we have a direct comparable. Hence my prediction can be mathematically proven either true or false.
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11 minutes ago, Timråfan said:
So we should not trust the fans that were sad Garland left them?
There are actually real fans in clubs, not biased, dumb, spoiled assholes only
We could go on forever. Instead I'm just going to say check the title it is a prediction may come true may not. Or am I wrong did I call it a fact give me a second I will check...........
Nope prediction is what I wrote.
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1 minute ago, Patel Bure said:
I really hope you're right but I will respectfully have to disagree based on what I've seen of Poolman. To me, Poolman is a very good 3rd pairing defenseman. I will be more than happy to congratulate you however if you end up being right. Love where your optimism is at but I'm just not seeing it.
I am mostly being a Homer on this one. His trade thread was getting brutal I wanted to show him some true Canadian Canuck love
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Just now, MikeyD said:
I'd take the word of people who have watched full seasons of the kid play over somebody on a Canucks forum claiming he will be better than one of the best defensemen this team has ever had.
Also all those advanced stats are cherry picked anyways. You'd be a fool to believe 99% of them. Remember Nate Schmidt's advanced stats? Guy was a #1 dman before coming to our team.
No one ever called Schmidt a number #1.
He is and always has been top 4 d-man.
Are you serious going to judge him on his play last season on this team.
What Schmidt isn't is a team player like Vegas fans where saying otherwise he wouldn't have given up on his Canuck team mates. Thankfully, JB got rid of the Cancer.
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6 minutes ago, MikeyD said:
Also all reports from Jets fans say he's a great #5-#6 guy but play him more minutes than that against top talent and the guy won't earn his cap.
Yes take the word of people who just lose him.
Have you seen his advance stats or more importantly without playing with his terrible jet d-partner.
There is a reason a coach put him with Morrissey. Morrissey can't play defense.
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On 7/31/2021 at 6:57 AM, Roger Neilsons Towel said:
In thread warning from the mods. There have been lots of reports generated from this thread for name calling. Both sides, for and against, are guilty of this. Let’s dial down the insults and discuss the team in a civil manner. We should all be able to disagree without having to resort to name calling. Let’s try to do this ourselves without having to get warning points involved. Thanks everybody. Cheers
So agree both sides being rude on this one. We are all Canucks here and it is a 2.5 mill cap hit. Even if he where a #6 d-man he would only be slightly overpaid. More upside than downside with this guy. I feel it is just the strong emotional feeling coming from how people feel about Benning. This guy takes no spot from anyone else as currently their is no one in the system that plays his style on the right side in rookie terms.
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13 minutes ago, Pears said:
I think most just liked Holtby simply due to who he was. As for the highlighted part I’ll keep saying this: If you say you saw Eriksson falling off a cliff like he did after we signed him you’re lying. He just came off a 30 goal, 60+ point season and the expectation was he‘d give the Sedins a few more good-elite years.
Total agree
Even today if Eriksson was 30 and a ufa and put up those numbers teams would want him for 6×6
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Just now, Timråfan said:
Well, if so you and I thought alike.
But those who defended the signing of Holtby was the classic Benning fan club. Not the Canucks fan club.
I like most moves that Benning has made. I think the Holtby one was the worse one.
Even the Eriksson one made sense at the time of his signing
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3 minutes ago, Timråfan said:
? What? Holtby was just a backup in case Demko blew it.
That is the reason why I and others complained about how expensive backup we had.we should have got a backup for 1,5 mill but Benning likes to spend… Until know.
Demko was destined to be No1 for a long time. It was just a matter of when Marky should hand over the command.
Great if Poolman becomes a new Tanev.
There are literally treads and treads of people making fun of me for calling Demko a number 1. I said start him in the first game people laughed. I said sign a cheaper back up people laughed. Most people liked the Holtby signing I said it lost us one of Tanev or Toffoli.
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[Signing] Canucks re-sign Olli Juolevi
in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Posted · Edited by Arrow 1983
Isn't this less than his qualifying offer. Or would that offer be 2 way and this is 1 way