Blömqvist
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2 minutes ago, RRypien37 said:No one had EP at #5 in their mock drafts.
HockeyProspect.com had Elias Pettersson at #5. As far as I know they were one of the few scouting services that were high on Pettersson.
For what it's worth, Hockey Prospect's final rankings was this for the top 10:
1. Hischier
2. Patrick
3. Heiskanen
4. Makar
5. Pettersson
6. Glass
7. Vilardi
8. Mittelstadt
9. Necas
10. Liljegren
source: https://www.hockeyprospect.com/hockeyprospect-com-2017-nhl-draft-final-rankings/
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3 minutes ago, NaveJoseph said:
With how wide open and unpredictable this draft has been, maybe it's good we didn't trade down. Benning targeted a guy at 5 and got him.
Ya it's looking like a very weird draft where everyone "gets their guy" at the pick they have.
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2 hours ago, brian42 said:
I agree, I don't think we should trade the 5th pick to move down.
pick Makar, Glass or Heiskanen in that order. Yes we have OJ playing the same side as Heiskanen but a top 4 with these two would be great and the trade possibilities are good too.
At 5 I'm looking at a select few prospects that I would be ecstatic with. Heiskanen, Glass, Makar, and Vilardi round up the next tier of prospects after Hischier and Patrick, and as long as management picks one of them I will be a very happy fan. Heiskanen is a left hand shot but plays the right side. He could make an unreal defense pairing alongside Juolevi, and if anything as you said opens up trade possibilities.
I won't be upset if Benning does take say Pettersson at #5, as I'm sure he has his vision of how he wants to build this team and he has his scouts feeding him information that we as fans won't kbow about, but like.. I just won't be as happy hahaha
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As devil's advocate, I would argue that picking Heiskanen at 5 if both Glass and Makar are gone would be the better move for this organization than to choose Pettersson. Heiskanen is the clear consensus BPA if he is there at 5, and Pettersson could be had later in the top 10.
Also, and probably more importantly, if Sergachev can land Drouin, Larsson can land Hall, and Jones can land Johansen, should Heiskanen develop even remotely decently imagine what he could fetch us in a trade if we dangle him.
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Very interesting... based on what's come out recently in news outlets and interviews Benning and Co's top 5 could look something like:
1. Nico/Nolan
2. Nico/Nolan
3. Glass
4. Makar
5. Pettersson
Which leaves Vilardi, Heiskanen, Liljegren, and Mittlestadt outside of the top 5 maybe?
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3 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:Yeah, Heiskanen is supposed to be off the board at #4. In case he is still available at #5 I guess the consensus of this forum is that the Canucks are going to pick a Centre (one of Vilardi, Glass, Mittelstadt, Petterson).
If Heiskanen falls to our pick at 5 and Vilardi and Glass are off the board I could definitely see Benning considering him. A Juolevi-Heiskanen would be our top everything unit for the next decade+. That unit would have excellent shutdown, puck moving, and offensive ability.
That said, I don't know how the fan base would react picking a defenseman at 5 two years in a row when there are some high ceiling offensive prospects on the board like Pettersson, Mittelstadt, Necas, and Tippett.
If Heiskanen were to be available at 5 I think the right move for Benning would be to trade picks with Buffalo who holds the 8th pick and get another asset. Buffalo is in need of defensemen and if they can get LHD Heiskanen they could pair him with RHD Ristolainen who is Finnish as well. That would allow us to pick up an extra pick or prospect while still staying in a position to draft one of Pettersson, Mittelstadt, or Necas.
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I think a part of why we drafted Virtanen was because he was a hometown kid and the PR related to that. That said, that's just a part of why we drafted him.
IMO he was going to be a Benning pick anyway though. Disregarding the consensus BPA as per Bob McKenzie (who had him 7th on his consensus list), Virtanen was what Benning envisioned the Canucks to play right down to the T. Benning wanted meat and potatoes. Benning envisioned the Canucks to play with speed. He wanted the Canucks to have size. And he also wanted the Canucks to play with skill.
The one thing that you can't argue is Jake's size and speed. His skill component came with his NHL-level shot, which Benning seemed to really scout for as McCann also had a lethal shot. Jake has size, speed, and skill BUT unfortunately for him, management, and us, powerforwards take much longer to develop. They may step into the show quicker because of their NHL ready size but from then on it's a process for them to develop.
If at the very least Benning drafted this type of player at the beginning of our rebuild. That way once this set of draftees and Juolevi come to form Virtanen would have a few extra years of development to find his game.
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2 hours ago, ashlynnbrookefan said:
Horvat was definitely a safe pick, Juolevi is a safer pick than Virtanen but I don't know if I'd label him as that and Virtanen was certainly not a safe pick.
Virtanen was a "safe pick" in such that with his physical tools he should at least have a floor of a third line winger, someone who can use their speed and strength to be tenacious on the forechecking and in the dirty areas and still have a good enough shot to score every now and then. Virtanen still should be able to get to that point but the real question in his game was if he could develop more offensively and be more consistent to be more than just a 3rd line grinding/power winger.
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Not sure how reputable Steve Kournianos of The Draft Analysis is, but he believes that Makar has a more of a complete game than people think. He is not only impressed with Makar's skating and offensive abilities but also his understanding of how he should defend given his sub 6-foot frame:
Dynamic two-way defenseman who torched Canadian Junior “A” by winning every major individual award, including top player in the AJHL and CJHL, plus MVP of the RBC Cup for a second straight year. Makar, who is committed to the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, is an explosive skater with a devastating first step. He commands all areas of the ice with or without the puck, and there is a noticeable fear in the way opponents attempt to defend him. Makar is blessed with an acute understanding of his job in any of the three zones, and he uses a variety of methods to beat back pressure. The way he defends is textbook, especially for a player listed under six feet. While he won’t win the proverbial arm-wrestling contest against bigger forwards, he’s highly competitive and relentless in the way he uses his stick. Quite frankly, his offensive skills are so sublime, you forget how painfully sound his defensive play is, even if it wasn’t against the best of North American major junior. He is the quintessential power play quarterback that can beat you with his accurate stretch passes, end-to-end rushes or setting himself up to unleash a monstrous cannon from the point. You can run out of superlatives trying to describe his game, and one can only hope his dominating performances at high-profile events like the RBC Cup and World Junior “A” Challenge quell concerns related to the level of his competition.
Source: The Draft Analyst
http://www.thedraftanalyst.com/2017-nhl-draft-headquarters/2017-draft-profiles/rhd-cale-makar/-
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43 minutes ago, Sugar baby watermelon said:
hey was this site shut down for the day yesterday?
I dunno but I feel like I have a CDC addiction cuz I was legit checking this site every hour at work and every half hour at home lol
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5 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:187.44 Lbs. and 5' 11.25"....give or take a gram or millimeter....from the same source you quoted.
Lmao I'm blind thanks for the spot!
That's not bad at all for Makar to be 5'11.25" and 187 lbs at 18 years old. People grow at different rates but he could potentially be at 6'0" and 195-200 lbs in a year or two when he leaves the NCAA and turns pro.
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2 hours ago, nowhereman said:
I'm assuming you haven't been following the recent combine info? Makar has gone through a growth spurt and is pushing 6ft. By the time he's done growing, he'll likely be comparable to the weight and height of Karlsson, Keith, Josi, Letang, etc.
What's wrong with that? This isn't 1998, when sloths like Hatcher ruled the roost.
What's his exact combine measurements? I haven't found an official one on NHL.com but I found some numbers from TheHockeyWriters. Makar is 5'11" and 187 lbs according to them.
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4 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:
Vlardi and Liljegren for me. Still think Makar is a judgement call for JB, his quality comp is very concerning for me as a top 5 pick.
Glass is dropping for me, Mittlestad is now a second choice if Vlardi isn't available.
I like Liljegren as well, but Makar's combine results have brought him up in my personal rankings. Makar must be a machine in the gym and his preparation top notch for him to rank so well in so many different combine tests. Yes, there is risk with Makar as he was playing in the AJHL (which IMO is nothing compared to the Liiga or SHL), but his skillset is undeniable.
Another thing that Makar has going for him is that he will play in the NCAA where he will get lots of time in the gym to bulk up and get more strength.
Furthermore, and probably most importantly, his head coach at UMass-Amherst was an assistant coach in the NHL for 7 seasons. Greg Carvel was the assistant under Mike Babcock in Anaheim for one year before Carvel went over to Ottawa as an assistant coach. He then coached Erik Karlsson for two years in 2009.10 and 2010.11, before going to the NCAA where he was voted best head coach by his peers in the ECAC conference in 2014.15.
Makar might not have played in the best league his draft year (in fact, far from it) but his skillset, work ethic and preparation are undeniable. He will be going into a program that is the best for him to develop physically and will have top-notch coaching for his skillset and playing style to get him to that next level.
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Definitely starting to look like the 3rd overall pick is available. If it really is, Benning should be all over it as it looks like the price could be for Tanev and a cap dump(s) coming back our way. Of the available RHD out there, Tanev seems like the best choice for the Stars. Barrie would be redundant on a team with Klingberg and Honka on the right side. Trouba could be a good fit as well but does not have as good of a shutdown game as Tanev does. Trouba does provide more points, but the issue with Dallas is not scoring but defending.
Should the Canucks land the 3rd overall pick, we should consider getting a defenseman with one of our high picks and a centre with the other.
3rd: Vilardi or Heiskanen
5th: Makar or Pettersson
This gives us a potential 1st line playmaking centre and a potential 1st pairing offensive defenseman in our system, two of the hardest positions to fill.
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1 hour ago, cuporbust said:
Guys guys guys, in a year we will all refer to him as "19-year old Casey Mittelstadt" and be amazed at how good he is.
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To say that Juolevi has regressed or hasn't improved is absurd. Especially looking at his statistics but not looking at the context. The context here being #1) Tkachuk, Marner, and Dvorak graduated into the NHL, and #2) Juolevi is used primarily as the main shutdown guy.
Last season, the London Knights scored 319 goals as a team. Juolevi was in on 42 of those goals, meaning that he contributed 13.17% of his team's total offense. This year the Knights scored 289 goals as a team and Juolevi was in on 42 of them. He contributed 14.53% of his team's total offense. We can see clearly that -- despite Tkachuk, Marner, and Dvorak graduating into the NHL -- Juolevi's offense did improve. The increase in percentage points doesn't look like much, but keep in mind if Juolevi was in on 8 more goals (50 points total for the 2016.17 season) he would have contributed 17.30% of his team's total offense.
IIRC, Juolevi was used primarily as the main shutdown guy. The most recent example of this was during the OHL playoffs, where he was consistently matched up against Gabe Vilardi. That series the London Knights eliminated the Windsor Spitfires from the OHL playoffs and Juolevi and co. held Vilardi to 6 points (2 goals and 4 assists) in 7 games, with a plus 1 rating. Currently, at the Memorial Cup Vilardi has exploded offensively in his most recent game. In 3 games Vilardi has 5 points (0 goals and 5 assists) with a plus 3 rating. Small sample size I know but Juolevi was a beast defensively in his OHL Playoff series against Vilardi and the Spitfires.
tl;dr Considering the context of his season, Juolevi was put into a more defensive role handling top shutdown duties this season yet still managed to increase his offensive contribution; Juolevi had a good developmental season.
Getting back to the other draft prospects... I have no idea who I want. There's so many good prospects where we are. Glass, Vilardi, Mittelstadt, and even Necas or Pettersson have an outside shot of sneaking into the top-5. On the defensive end of things Heiskanen might be the top defenseman but don't sleep on Liljegren because of his mono and Makar because of him playing in the AJHL. I hope Benning can get another pick in the top-10 so we can draft a playmaking centre and a puck-moving pp quarterback defenseman. Make the rebuild go by that much faster.
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4 hours ago, Sugar baby watermelon said:
how about for that 2nd pick if available: Nikita Popagayev, Isaac Ratcliffe or Grant Mismash? all are LW and big with some skill, we are good with our RW, presumably C if we go that route with that 1st pick, but some big LW would be nice to pick in this draft as well
If we get the 2nd round pick from Columbus this year, I would look into combining that with our 2nd round pick to trade up into the last 1/3 of the first round, hopefully closer to pick 20. Could get a guy like Foote or Vesalainen or a smaller high skilled player like Suzuki or Brannstrom there.
I'm actually pretty high on Brannstrom. He's a smaller defenseman at 5'10" and 179 lbs but he's a very late birthday for this draft. If he was born two weeks later he would be in the 2018 draft. Brannstrom is a smooth skating puck-moving defenseman who can quarterback the powerplay and unload one-timers from the point. He was running the powerplay alongside Liljegren on the U18s. He's playing against men in the SHL as a 17 year old and by some accounts is very strong and can hold his own despite his smaller frame. Some people say if he was an inch or two taller he'd be a top-5 pick this year, and with him having a late birthday he might be able to grow an inch or two taller and add on 15-20 pounds by the time he makes the jump to the NHL. Because of his size he's rated all over the place... Corey Pronman from ESPN has him as the 11th best prospect. Jeff Marek from Sportsnet has him at 14. On the other side of the scale, ISS has him unranked (i.e. not in their top 31) and Craig Button has him at 45.
Brannstrom might be like Stecher with much higher offensive upside. Solid puck moving top-4 defenseman who can quarterback the first-unit powerplay is good value for a late first round selection.
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Not sure if this has been posted already, but here is a shift-by-shift video of Cody Glass (#8 in WHITE) against the Kamloops Blazers. He gets off to a fast start but by all means watch and judge for yourself the things he's good at and things he needs to work on.
IMO he could work on his skating, particularly his acceleration and first step explosiveness. He's not a slug out there by all means but the quicker he gets to openings or to loose pucks the better it will be for him to generate offense. Puck protection will come as he gets bigger and stronger.. but ya definitely not like Vilardi at the moment. I like how he is usually in and around the net in the offensive zone. He doesn't make pretty passes or hold the puck and skate around in circles like say a Willie Nylander would. His offense at the moment is take the puck to the net and battle or give and go type plays or keeping his head up to find the open man. Simple offense but quick, smart, and effective offense. Very aware of where his teammates are on the ice and he'll try to give the puck to them quickly if they are open even for a second. He finds the open area in the defensive coverage and is ready to receive a pass or let off a shot.EDIT: WOOT 2,000th post!! But more importantly 1,000th reputation upvote!!! Thanks for liking my content CDC! Been on the forum since October 2009... what a roller coaster ride it's been for us Canucks fans ehh?? lol
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I can see the Canucks management wanting Glass. After all, our new head coach Travis Green has ties to the Portland Winterhawks organization so we could get the inside scoop on Glass and "influence" his development in the next few years in Junior.
Glass is a good prospect and hopefully he'll be able to grow an inch or two more to 6'3" or 6"4" and play at 200+ lbs. At that size, with his speed, skillset, hockey IQ and determination, he would be a deadly offensive threat.
If we have speed and size down the middle with Glass and Horvat and have a deep defense core led by Juolevi that is mobile and can move the puck then we should stay competitive with Edmonton and all their of 1st overall picks.
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double post my bad bruh
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On 5/14/2017 at 8:33 AM, canucksnihilist said:
Jake was picked for need, not best player available. We weren't rebuilding when he was picked, we were making the playoffs. It was a risk to take a power forward. Most of those players end up on the 3rd or 4th line, so that's what it looks we have.
There was a tier of similar players after the top 5 and Jake would have been right at that next pick of BPA according to Bob McKenzie, who surveys multiple scouts to make a "consensus" list. I would argue that McKenzie's list would be the true BPA as he does survey multiple scouts and ranks accordingly. Therefore, according to McKenzie Virtanen was the "consensus" seventh best player of that draft.
1. Ekblad
2. Reinhart
3. Bennett
4. Draisaitl
5. Dal Colle
6. Ritchie
7. Virtanen
8. Fleury
9. Nylander
10. Ehlers
11. Kapanen
12. Larkin
http://www.mynhldraft.com/2014-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings/
In regards to Juolevi, I'm glad he will be working out here in Vancouver with their trainers. Judging by his comments, he'll be here just for a little while before going back to Finland. At least he'll get specific direction on workout and nutrition. Also a bonus getting coached and mentored by Sami Salo! Salo was probably the most underrated defenseman of the Sedin era... he was rock-solid defensively, could move the puck up with simple passes, and had enough offensive prowess to be out there on the powerplay and fire his cannon of a shot. Hopefully Juolevi can learn not just how to shoot better and harder but also insight on what it takes to be a pro and how to handle the position and physicality of the game.
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I am a huge supporter of Heiskanen and I think he will make a very good top pairing defenseman. He is a puck moving defenseman who can distribute the puck on the powerplay while playing excellent defensively. He can avoid the forecheck with his quick skating or making quick heads up plays and join the rush with ease. Although this in itself makes for a very good defenseman, we already have Juolevi who is of a similar mould.
Liljegren on the other hand can move the puck as effectively as Heiskanen but the difference between them lies in their offensive and defensive capabilities. I feel that, with good two-way defensemen already in the system like Juolevi, Hutton, and Stecher and shutdown specialists in Gudbranson and possibly even Brisebois, that future defense core needs a high-offense guy like Liljegren. Further, Liljegren has an added dimension in his offense with his shot, where he can unload a slapper or snipe a wrister. Heiskanen -- in the limited games that I've seen him play on TV -- seems to defer to other guys a lot and doesn't often threaten offensively with his shot. Liljegren isn't exactly trigger happy but he does have that added dimension to his game which he utilizes well, and that gives him a much higher offensive ceiling.
There are things that Liljegren can improve on but it's easier to coach defensive responsibilities and to play with a sense of urgency and a more "hard-nosed" game. Just look at Baertschi's transformation in play over the past two years. Although I do believe that Heiskanen will be the better overall defenseman, the Canucks need Liljegren's offensive game.
In regards to Playmaking #1C vs Offensive Top2D, it is easier to trade for a Playmaking #1C than it is for an Offensive Top2D. Seguin was traded by Boston. Sam Reinhart may be on the block. RNH may be on the block as well. Tavares may become a UFA. There is no chance a team trades a Karlsson or Klingberg unless they absolutely have to.
Draft Liljegren.
Trade Tanev for an offensive centreman.
Draft a dynamic offensive forward in the top 5 or top 10 next year.
Develop.
Sign complementary UFAs.
Rebuild complete.
Continue to draft BPA and develop further.
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I personally would prefer Liljegren or Mittelstadt at our pick. I think their ceilings are very high and they both have a good base of talent, athleticism, size, and hockey IQ to have high floors as well.
Further, Liljegren was supposed to challenge for the number one spot before he got sick with mono. As others have said, if his fall and decline in play can be directly and is solely related to him being sick with mono then theoretically he should be right up there or right behind Patrick and Hischier as the third best prospect of the draft.
In regards to Mittelstadt, I believe that if he had played the full year in the USHL he would be, like Liljegren, right up there or right behind Patrick and Hischier. He was one of the leading scorers of the USHL at the beginning of the year before he left for his high school team, and if he had stayed I do believe he would still score at a competitive rate and be among the very top USHL players.
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4 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:
There were a couple of segments about Cale Makar on TSN1040 today.
I think it was the Penticton Vees head coach. Sekeres and Price were talking to him about the team and going to the RBC Cup and facing Makar and the Brooks Bandits. He said that Makar has elite skating ability -- particularly his lateral movement and how he uses it. He said Makar's skating reminds him of a young Duncan Keith. Obviously Cale Makar has a long way to go to get to Keith's level but his skating is consistently lauded by scouts.
Then on the midday show with Don Taylor and the Moj they had the GM/Head Coach of Brooks Bandits. He again praised Makar's skating ability and his offense and stick skills. He has a quiet kind of leadership and let's his work ethic both on and off the ice do the talking for him. He also said he had to "get used to" being a top player with all the extra hacks and slashes and cross checks and attention that comes to it. Says he needs to work on gap control and positioning like all young defensemen, especially when moving to higher levels. Believes that the NCAA route is good for Makar as at UMASS he will be coached by a former NHL coach who was in the coaching staff under Mike Babcock and who also worked with -- yep you guessed it Erik Karlsson. Thinks Makar will get a lot of time in the gym and on-ice coaching due to the scheduling of NCAA games.
I'll put up the links when they become available.
IMO from the information I've heard today I would put Makar right there with Heiskanen. He's 5'11" and at most ~180lbs but if he can get another inch or two and play at 200 lbs and skate and think the way he does out there... boy you'd have quite the player. He'll get the time in the gym to get bigger and get NHL quality coaching in the next year or two he spends in the NCAA. Could jump straight into the NHL like Stecher did this year and Hutton the year before.
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[GDT] 2017 NHL Entry Draft
in General Hockey Discussion
Posted
And add Liljegren with the upcoming 15th overall pick...