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The "schneider Is Unproven Argument"

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#211 beer&meat

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:50 PM

It's actually four 1-goal games. But even this is outrageous. Not impossible, but ridiculous to suggest it was a choke if it was not accomplished.


That would be if we swept, again with the high expectations. In a 7 game series that's what was needed.
I don't ride with the band, I roll with the team.

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#212 Underachieving Hero of CDC

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:11 PM

Did nobody see how badley he was out of position on the tieing goal lastnight?
I'm not a Luongo fanboi nor am I a Schneider fanboi, I'm a fan of the team and want what's best for them, but to ignorantly say "Schneider is better" is just....well....ignorant.
He's 1-4 in NHL playoffs
He was caught badley out of position costing us games 3-5.
He has never played more than 30 games in a season.
The boy doesn't have the common sense to throw his mask off after being hit in the head.
I've seen too many times a rookie netminder come into the league trying to secure a #1 spot and play lights out and get that spot, only to disappear in following seasons (See Cam Ward for example)
Luongo has proven he can get to the playoffs season after season, what I don't understand is when the team scores 8 goals in 7 games it's Luongo's fault we lost.
Schneider on the other hand loses 2 games, is caught badley out of position costing us games, the team scores 7 goals in 5 games and now all of a sudden because Schneider is in net it's the offense that cost us the game?
I'll stick with the proven product, as much as I like Schneider he is unproven , and that's a fact.

Wow. Schneider cost us games 3-5? I'd just like to take this opportunity to point out that Luongo's GAA and sv% in this years playoffs ranked 18th and 17th respectively against other playoff goalies. Think about that....theres only 16 teams. In comparison, Schneider's GAA was the best among the 32 goalies and his sv% was...wait for it....also the best among the 32 goalies. In short, Schneider was the best goalie of the playoffs up until last night. I'm sure you can come up with reasons why his fantastic stats are all inflated and mean nothing, just like Lu supporters have been doing for the last 2 seasons, but in reality, Schneider is head and shoulders above Luongo and he has proved it.

#213 unbridled_id

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:27 PM

Wow. Schneider cost us games 3-5? I'd just like to take this opportunity to point out that Luongo's GAA and sv% in this years playoffs ranked 18th and 17th respectively against other playoff goalies. Think about that....theres only 16 teams. In comparison, Schneider's GAA was the best among the 32 goalies and his sv% was...wait for it....also the best among the 32 goalies. In short, Schneider was the best goalie of the playoffs up until last night. I'm sure you can come up with reasons why his fantastic stats are all inflated and mean nothing, just like Lu supporters have been doing for the last 2 seasons, but in reality, Schneider is head and shoulders above Luongo and he has proved it.


Yea, and Schneider has has such a large sample to take the stats from that I simply cannot disagree with you. He also cramped up and had to be carried out of a playoff game too..

Best goalie in the playoffs, but wasn't better than Quick....

Edited by unbridled_id, 23 April 2012 - 06:28 PM.

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#214 smurf47

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:29 PM

If we won the Presidents Cup with the 15th best goalie in the League(Luongo) then chances are we could win it with the 2nd best goalie (Schneider ) or any of a dozen or so goalies who play in the NHL.
But winning the P. Cup or making the playoffs is not the issue. Performing in the Playoffs is what we need to address, How we do that remains to be seen.

#215 Tearloch7

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:29 PM

Yea, and Schneider has has such a large sample to take the stats from that I simply cannot disagree with you. He also cramped up and had to be carried out of a playoff game too..

Best goalie in the playoffs, but wasn't better than Quick....


Yep .. he cramped up in one more playoff game than you have ever played ..

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#216 hsedin33

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:32 PM

Hello there folks, we've all heard it before, that Schneider is "unproven". Now I've spent a lot of time trying to understand this argument as it seems to be the only one the Luongo "lovers" can come up with for why Schneider shouldn't be the number 1 guy. I have concluded that this is in fact not an argument but BS that spews from those that fear change for whatever reason.

So here's what I've come up with:

According to you luongo "lovers", Schneider is as you put it, "unproven". Okay so basically what I understand is that in order to prove himself, he has to play a lot of games, but in order to play a lot of games, he has to prove himself. You see how I'm having a hard time understanding the whole "unproven" argument? It's a lose-lose situation for Schneider! He can't prove himself because we won't play him as our number 1! And we won't play him as our number 1 because he's unproven!! GO FIGURE!!!

This is some Inception crap am I right!!!

I can appreciate the fact that some of you love Luongo but I think the people who realize that this is a business and NOT a popularity contest will agree that he has (for lack of better words) "sh*t the bed" on numerous BIG occasions and that change is needed.


Its not "Schneider is unproven and therefore shouldn't be #1"...

It's

"Schneider is unproven." which he is. Nobody said he wasn't going to be good, its just that he's unproven...

Every player is at one point in their life, get over it.

Edited by hsedin33, 23 April 2012 - 06:35 PM.


#217 hsedin33

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:34 PM

.

Edited by hsedin33, 23 April 2012 - 06:34 PM.


#218 Underachieving Hero of CDC

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:35 PM

Yea, and Schneider has has such a large sample to take the stats from that I simply cannot disagree with you. He also cramped up and had to be carried out of a playoff game too..

Best goalie in the playoffs, but wasn't better than Quick....

Debateable. His numbers were certainly better than Quick's. Add that to the fact that the Kings played very tight defense all series long for Quick and the Canucks were prone to turnovers and giving up odd man rushes for Schneids. Just because LA won doesn't mean Quick played better than Schneider. It just means the team in front of him was playing better. As for the crampup, I still remember what happened with Lu the 3 games before that, causing Schneider to play in the first place.

#219 unbridled_id

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:37 PM

Debateable. His numbers were certainly better than Quick's. Add that to the fact that the Kings played very tight defense all series long for Quick and the Canucks were prone to turnovers and giving up odd man rushes for Schneids. Just because LA won doesn't mean Quick played better than Schneider. It just means the team in front of him was playing better. As for the crampup, I still remember what happened with Lu the 3 games before that, causing Schneider to play in the first place.



Yea, well he wasn't good enough to win the game....and was outplayed in the game that knocked them out.... So the bottom line is he came up short and all the spin in the world cannot change that fact. You want to anoint him a savior and after eight years a prodigy feel free to do so... He is good...but has alot to prove and hasn't done squat as of yet.

As far a lou goes, that is the Nucks boat anchor to deal with.... Gillis should be fired for offering that kind of a contract... what with the prodigy waiting in the wings..

Edited by unbridled_id, 23 April 2012 - 06:40 PM.

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#220 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:37 PM

If we can't win with Schneider, it tells us that our offense and defense really sucked.

307mg00.jpg


#221 smurf47

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:44 PM

Defense did just about all you could ask in last 3 games..offense a different story. Asking Schneider to do more is unrealistic...he was the reason we had a chance to win. His stats were tops in the games he played....To say he did nothing is a slap in his face ! He gave up one goal in each of the 3 games he played until OT. Give your head a shake...he was awesome.

#222 Underachieving Hero of CDC

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:45 PM

Yea, well he wasn't good enough to win the game....and was outplayed in the game that knocked them out.... So the bottom line is he came up short and all the spin in the world cannot change that fact. You want to anoint him a savior and after eight years a prodigy feel free to do so... He is good...but has alot to prove and hasn't done squat as of yet.

As far a lou goes, that is the Nucks boat anchor to deal with.... Gillis should be fired for offering that kind of a contract... what with the prodigy waiting in the wings..

No goalie in the world could have taken the team to the finals this year. But Schneider played better than Luongo. He played better than Lu all season long. Going forward, Schneider has to be the guy.

#223 ice3u3

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:45 PM

how does anyone know if luongo started game 3 vs la we would have won he played fine games 1 and 2 and schneider lost to quick its that simple as that he gave up a weak goal in game 5 and thas inexperience luongo proved himself in big games last year against san jose game 5 54 saves in double ot 2 shutouts in the stanley cup final if anyone is to blame its our offense for not scoring goals and schneider is good but not great and i am a luongo lover cuz hes done more for this franchise than schneider has

#224 smurf47

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:53 PM

Love Luongo for who he is and what he was...but suck it up...Schneiders the new gun in town !!

#225 unbridled_id

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:54 PM

No goalie in the world could have taken the team to the finals this year. But Schneider played better than Luongo. He played better than Lu all season long. Going forward, Schneider has to be the guy.


Oh I agree with you there.... But then it comes back the to 800lb gorilla in the room... Who takes lou's contract with the 6.714 salary for six years and 5.3 caphit for the next ten ? What with his best years behind him and he being 33 right now ?

Edited by unbridled_id, 23 April 2012 - 06:54 PM.

"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“Lady Nancy Astor: Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea.
Churchill: Nancy, if I were your husband, I'd drink it.”

#226 beer&meat

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:32 AM

Wow. Schneider cost us games 3-5? I'd just like to take this opportunity to point out that Luongo's GAA and sv% in this years playoffs ranked 18th and 17th respectively against other playoff goalies. Think about that....theres only 16 teams. In comparison, Schneider's GAA was the best among the 32 goalies and his sv% was...wait for it....also the best among the 32 goalies. In short, Schneider was the best goalie of the playoffs up until last night. I'm sure you can come up with reasons why his fantastic stats are all inflated and mean nothing, just like Lu supporters have been doing for the last 2 seasons, but in reality, Schneider is head and shoulders above Luongo and he has proved it.


Just as much as Lou cost us games 1-2.
As for the argumet about save%, after game 3 Luongo was 4th in all starting netminders in save% even strength. Considering the Canucks got more than 49 minutes in penalties in the first 2 games, and in game #1 Roberto had a 0.921sv% compared to Quicks 0.923sv% is pretty impressive. I'm not a Luo lover, nor am I a Schneider hater, but you stupid people that spew hate and try and pass it as fact are just moronic.
I'll say it again and you can spew his SV% all you want, he didn't win and both tieing goals were directly from him being out of position.
your hatred for Luongo blinds you from seeing the process, but only seeing the result, if we are just looking at results...Cory Schneider failed and is well known for failing in important games.
I don't ride with the band, I roll with the team.

I've been a Canuck fan since 2004-05 when the team was going through a huge transition phase, missed the playoffs


#227 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:39 AM

how does anyone know if luongo started game 3 vs la we would have won he played fine games 1 and 2 and schneider lost to quick its that simple as that he gave up a weak goal in game 5 and thas inexperience luongo proved himself in big games last year against san jose game 5 54 saves in double ot  2 shutouts in the stanley cup final if anyone is to blame its our offense for not scoring goals and schneider is good but not great and i am a luongo lover cuz hes done more for this franchise than schneider has


Dude. Punctuation.

I can't even understand what you're trying to say here...
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#228 Yeria

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:51 AM

Well that's the thing I wouldn't have brought this up if I was satisfied with Luongo's performance. I am Unsatisfied and clearly MANY agree with me! Luongo flops like a fish out of water and Schneider is calm, cool and collected. I mean I can't remember the last time Schneider had a bad game. You would think that his plethora of stellar performances would warrant him the opportunity of obtaining the starting position but NOOOOOOO you guys are tooooo scared!! What does Schneider have to do!!! He deserves the chance at being the starter!

Honestly you remind me of one of those guys with the b*tchy girlfriends who stays with her because you're afraid you might not find someone better.

To be fair, Schneider also has been caught cheating and has been beaten numerous times because of that. His puck control skills behind the net is EVEN worse than Luongo's and he loses sight of the puck more often. Kelly Hrudey said this as well and he also mentioned how Schneider tries to stand up-right when going post to post rather than falling forward like A LOT OF OTHER GOALTENDERS to completely cover the ice with their pads. He said it doesn't make Schneider better or worse than those goaltenders but it would be easier for him to stop 2-on-1 one timer high shots compared to Luongo. Probably that's why you're so high on Schneider and you believe Luongo's just flopping around.

Since it sounds like you're arguing Schneider is a proven goalie already, we have two proven goalies according to you. Why is that Luongo's mistakes are always emphasized and Schneider's mistakes are overlooked? Is that because of what Schneider says in front of the camera? Or is it the fact that he's not getting paid a lot?

Hey, Schneider "lover", if you want to argue your point by saying the Luongo "lovers" are hypocritical then you shouldn't be the same with Schneider either.
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#229 Tangelos

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:12 PM

To be fair, Schneider also has been caught cheating and has been beaten numerous times because of that. His puck control skills behind the net is EVEN worse than Luongo's and he loses sight of the puck more often. Kelly Hrudey said this as well and he also mentioned how Schneider tries to stand up-right when going post to post rather than falling forward like A LOT OF OTHER GOALTENDERS to completely cover the ice with their pads. He said it doesn't make Schneider better or worse than those goaltenders but it would be easier for him to stop 2-on-1 one timer high shots compared to Luongo. Probably that's why you're so high on Schneider and you believe Luongo's just flopping around.

Since it sounds like you're arguing Schneider is a proven goalie already, we have two proven goalies according to you. Why is that Luongo's mistakes are always emphasized and Schneider's mistakes are overlooked? Is that because of what Schneider says in front of the camera? Or is it the fact that he's not getting paid a lot?

Hey, Schneider "lover", if you want to argue your point by saying the Luongo "lovers" are hypocritical then you shouldn't be the same with Schneider either.


NO WAY IN HELL is luongo a better puck handler. While it's true Schneider isn't the greatest puck mover, he's still made quite a few good passes form behind the net to the blue line for the forwards. Sometimes he tries to do to much but unlike luongo he actually has the ability to make a pass rather than just leave it behind the net.

How does him standing upright not make him better than goalies who belly flop? If he stops more cross-creasers than those goalies than clearly he's better at making those saves. Btw, I wouldn't take anything kelly hrudy says seriously as he's probably the most anti canuck on cbc.

And yes I like the way Schneider is in front of the camera! He actually takes ownership of his mistakes. I remember that coyotes game when we lost 1-0 and all he could say is how he let the team down by allowing that 1 goal. He never blames the guys in front of him and always takes responsibility for his play. There's just no BS or excuses with Schneids and that deserves a ton of respect. Luongo on the other hand..... well let me just give you an example. When we lost in the 2010 playoffs to Chicago 5-1 in game 6, after the game luongo said (and I'm paraphrasing) at least I only let in 5 goals this time whereas last year I let in 7.

That is why I like Schneider
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#230 beer&meat

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:23 PM

NO WAY IN HELL is luongo a better puck handler. While it's true Schneider isn't the greatest puck mover, he's still made quite a few good passes form behind the net to the blue line for the forwards. Sometimes he tries to do to much but unlike luongo he actually has the ability to make a pass rather than just leave it behind the net.

How does him standing upright not make him better than goalies who belly flop? If he stops more cross-creasers than those goalies than clearly he's better at making those saves. Btw, I wouldn't take anything kelly hrudy says seriously as he's probably the most anti canuck on cbc.

And yes I like the way Schneider is in front of the camera! He actually takes ownership of his mistakes. I remember that coyotes game when we lost 1-0 and all he could say is how he let the team down by allowing that 1 goal. He never blames the guys in front of him and always takes responsibility for his play. There's just no BS or excuses with Schneids and that deserves a ton of respect. Luongo on the other hand..... well let me just give you an example. When we lost in the 2010 playoffs to Chicago 5-1 in game 6, after the game luongo said (and I'm paraphrasing) at least I only let in 5 goals this time whereas last year I let in 7.

That is why I like Schneider


Wow you are delusional :frantic:

But that goes for a majority around here, especially when it comes to Schneider > Luongo
I don't ride with the band, I roll with the team.

I've been a Canuck fan since 2004-05 when the team was going through a huge transition phase, missed the playoffs


#231 Tangelos

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:24 PM

Wow you are delusional :frantic:

But that goes for a majority around here, especially when it comes to Schneider > Luongo

*

Edited by Doug The Thug Glatt, 12 November 2012 - 06:10 PM.

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