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#1 komodo1970

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:56 PM

I've been reading a lot of posts about what fans feel the Canucks need the most. I believe that the team needs to go back to the most basic need. Picking a direction. By picking a direction, I mean ; Do they go for more of a defensive minded look that relies more on boxing out players and keeping the front of the net clear and relying on opposition mistakes for offense? Or, do they go for the all forward offense, leaving the goalie open to more odd man rushes and quality scoring chances? In making a decision on this, I believe our goaltender moving forward can be decided.

There is no doubting that we possess two great goaltenders. The problem lies in the team thats put in front of them.

Roberto Luongo is a great first shot save goaltender who gives up few rebounds. His experience is also a plus. His positional play, however leaves something to be desired. He is prone to weak goals, most notably from behind the net. His side to side movement is slower and he often seems to give up on long, cross ice passes in front of the net. If Lou is our goaltender moving forward, I think defense should be the strategy and should be seeking defensemen that fill this need. Big defenders who concentrate more on our end than constantly jumping up in the play. They'll need to limit cross ice passes and allow Lou to concentrate on the shooter. These defensemen should also have a great pass out of our zone, leaving little chance to be intercepted, sometimes just choosing the boards instead of the long stretch passes. This should translate to fewer goals and more assists from defensemen as well as a higher save percentage out of our goaltending. It also means a lot of low scoring and, at times, down right boring games. We should be winning a lot of 2-1 and 3-2 games. If this route were chosen there would be a lot of changes to our team.
The Sedins, last year were +23 and +14 respectively. This is misleading, however, as most of there offense came from the powerplay. In the playoffs, however, they were 0s in the plus minus department. In fact the highest score in this department was Zach Kassian with +1. This shows a lack of defensive commitment. With Lou in net, defense should be priority. A lot less pinching and more backing off. The biggest problem that would be faced is changing the teams focus and mind set. Disipline would be paramount.

In Cory Schneider we get a young, athletic goaltender. He has great lateral movement and is positionally solid. He never gives up on the play. He is primed to be on a more offensive, high octane team. He can make big saves. The problem is; can he do it for 60 to 70 games plus playoffs? He's shown it for 30 but asking him to do it for 3/4 of a season could be a tall order. Right now, it seems the team is more prepared for this type of game and would require less of a change. A player like Chris Tanev would become more expendable in favor of a bigger more offensively minded defenseman. With more emphasis being placed on scoring goals, the workload increases for Schneider. As I said, it's a tall order, however I think Cory is ready. In 22 fewer games than Lou, his save percentage (.937) and GAA (1.96) were dynamite. In the playoffs he played 3 games, allowing 4 goals. His save percentage was .960 and he had a 1.31 GAA. He just out performed Lou. Unfortunately the team was unable to produce much offense and was eliminated. But if Schneids can be counted on, then Vancouver's offseason efforts should be spent trying to find that high point producer to put with Kesler (Zach Parise?). The key is in finding someone that can find chemistry with him.

Which ever way it goes, the team has to perform consistently and be able to raise the bar in the playoffs. Average won't get it done. They have to commit to a system and play that system 110% every night.

#2 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 04:04 PM

AV needs to go, every team in the NHL knows the canucks game plan..... dump and chase and change unless your the first 2 lines.......drop pass on power play....etc

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#3 ButterBean

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 04:05 PM

We can't go one direction. We have to be able to put the most balanced lineup possible. We need a team that can adjust to whatever style opponent is brought upon us. Skill, size, speed, toughness, offensive players, defensive players, two-way players, etc.

#4 Chariot

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 04:17 PM

As for the +/- comment...+/- is not counted on the Powerplay.

#5 Chariot

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 04:20 PM

Nevermind, I see how you meant it... basically it looks low but in actuallity they scored more than it would seem for their +/-.... wording ftw. Sorry.

#6 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 04:20 PM

We can be both. We are a team of high talent in every position (forwards, defence and goaltending).
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#7 Wonderine

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 04:45 PM

AV needs to go, every team in the NHL knows the canucks game plan..... dump and chase and change unless your the first 2 lines.......drop pass on power play....etc


OK let me get this straight arguably the best coach in Canucks history and you think he needs to go???? I am tired of hearing that AV needs to go... he has helped this club to the most success in its modern history. How many Presidents trophies? Art Ross winners? Selky winners? Come on get serious the Cup is within our reach for possibly the third season in a row and you want to let our coach go.....give me a break......

NUFF SAID

#8 doglegdave

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:09 PM

Well good points but the real thing that has to addressed is a couple of big mean players that will not let any elbows or fingers lodged in the sedins face, This team is all about the sedins and goal tending enough smurfs, play the game MG and the game is give those two talented gentlemen room and if some one wants to hurt or try to itimidate then right back at ya, if they happen to get suspended so be it they will be back,enough of this team toughness BS because there not, law of the jungle ,now i understand the red wings game but when you have two players that refuse to go any were near that physical route then even the playing feild.

#9 17's heart&hustle

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:36 PM

During our run to the cup, this team had an identity. No BS between whistles, and took care of business in play. This year we got away from that, we got too caught up in the "mental" game. We need to gain back the identity we had in 2011.

Also for those saying to keep AV: Yes he is the winningess coach in franchise history etc. But he has also been coaching this same group of core players for like 7 years? Players start to tune coaches out over time. That sort of shake up may be exactly what this team needs to wake up and play to their full potential during the postseason.

Im not saying AV is a bad coach, I just think his time is up. He has had his chance. There is a reason that coaches often never coach teams for extended amounts of time. I believe barry trotz is the only coach in the league that has been with his team for over ten years. Before him (i may be wrong) i believe the last one to accomplish that was Scotty Bowman (one of the best coaches in history)

#10 Silfverberg Snipes

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:39 PM

The only direction this team is going with AV at the reigns is regular season success followed by playoff failures.

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#11 GuzzIer

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:46 PM

Tl;dr

#12 17's heart&hustle

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:00 PM

The only direction this team is going with AV at the reigns is regular season success followed by playoff failures.


I will be extremely disappointed in MG if he is serious about extending AVs contract. If anything let him coach out his final year and if by jan or feb we aren't looking good, bring up MacT.

Although the difficulty is we always look good during the season..

EDIT: If MacT made it to game 7 of SCF with the oilers staff, he can do it with ours...and as i said above, coaching shakeup is what we need. And theyh often produce positive results (09 pens)

Edited by 17's heart&hustle, 21 May 2012 - 06:01 PM.


#13 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:06 PM

OK let me get this straight arguably the best coach in Canucks history and you think he needs to go???? I am tired of hearing that AV needs to go... he has helped this club to the most success in its modern history. How many Presidents trophies? Art Ross winners? Selky winners? Come on get serious the Cup is within our reach for possibly the third season in a row and you want to let our coach go.....give me a break......

NUFF SAID


He's also had pretty much the most talented canucks team, and he's only made it past the 2nd round once in 6 years? With your logic he had 2 Art ross winners, a selky winner and 2 elite goalies and he still couldn't win a cup? He almost got eliminated for the 3rd time in the playoffs against the Hawks if it wasn't for Burrows.

Sorry, but, NUFF SAID

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#14 smithers joe

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:16 PM

i will be extremely disappointed if gillis doesn't extend AV's contract....but that is just my opinion....i have to admit, i've never managed, coached or played in the nhl, so all i can offer is my opinion....i guess, we are all entitled to that....i'm going to leave the major decisions to the people that have that expertise.....in gillis, i trust.

#15 G-52

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:15 PM

AV is a good coach, not an all-star coach. He is good enough to coach the Canucks to a cup, but the team doesn't need that right now. They need something else, whatever that something else is, that's what they need. With that said though there's no way id fire AV without a decent replacement waiting. MacT could be a decent interim coach but i don't think he is what we want as a permanent replacement.

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#16 Wonderine

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:30 PM

He's also had pretty much the most talented canucks team, and he's only made it past the 2nd round once in 6 years? With your logic he had 2 Art ross winners, a selky winner and 2 elite goalies and he still couldn't win a cup? He almost got eliminated for the 3rd time in the playoffs against the Hawks if it wasn't for Burrows.

Sorry, but, NUFF SAID


Maybe you should go back and reevaluate you thoughts. Coaching is not what cost us the cup. Total team effort is what cost us the cup. The mental ability to cope is what cost us the cup, not coaching. As to the Boohawks every team has a nemesis we as a club overcame with a hero type performance by BURR. You win as a team and you lose as a team. I don't see the posts that are calling for twins heads on a platter, oh wait a minute those were the posts a few years ago. This club is arguably the best in the past 4-5 years and will be for the next 5-7 years. The cup will come give it a chance instant gratification is for video games and great food not a franchise that is working to sustain years of success in the best sport in the world....

NUFF SAID ;)

#17 Tangelos

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:34 PM

OK let me get this straight arguably the best coach in Canucks history and you think he needs to go???? I am tired of hearing that AV needs to go... he has helped this club to the most success in its modern history. How many Presidents trophies? Art Ross winners? Selky winners? Come on get serious the Cup is within our reach for possibly the third season in a row and you want to let our coach go.....give me a break......

NUFF SAID


how many cups? You know, that shiny thing that actually matters.

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#18 realnucksfan2010

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:47 AM

Really everyone all this team needs to do is get hungry, develope a nevere say die attitude, and play the game! Never mind the off ice sh*t, Naked photos, smash mouthing the other team, whinning about poor reffing! Just go out and play the game! We all know how talented this team is, and I am sure they know what they are capable of, they just need to do it!
All of this crap about coaching and Luo this, and Luo that, AV this AV that, MG needs to trade this guy or that guy, is all crap! This by far, hands down the best Canucks team i have ever seen, but the worst for off ice garbage, which unfortunatley distracts the team.
I hope they come back next year motivated and driven to win with no reguard for off ice crap! If they can do that they will win for sure!
Just my thoughts

#19 skyfall

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:42 AM

With great goaltending I don't see why the team can't go for it on offense. What I'd like to see more is offense driven by forwards. I see lots of teams where offense is driven by one or two guys so a) they have room to operate and B) three guys can go back on D.

The biggest key though is quick maintenance and adjustments by the coaching staff. If a guy is struggling, work with him. Exploit other teams' weaknesses and make sure you can counter their changes.

What I have rarely seen with Canucks teams is them being able to execute their vision of the team. What I mean is if they're an offensive team like the Marc Crawford coached Canucks, why are they getting outscored by a defensive team like the Wild? If they're a defensive team, why are they giving up prime scoring chances only have the goalie bail them out in 2007? If the Canucks are a speed team, why are they getting outhustled by Chicago? If they are a dominant favourite who plays the right way, why are they getting blown out by Chicago and Boston?

They should have a generic big picture strategy but then always, always be adjusting depending on their opponent and circumstances. They should strive to be great at all areas of the game, but in a realistic way, and then use the strategy that gives them the best chance to win, not necessarily the most comfortable way of doing things.

#20 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:40 PM

Maybe you should go back and reevaluate you thoughts. Coaching is not what cost us the cup. Total team effort is what cost us the cup. The mental ability to cope is what cost us the cup, not coaching. As to the Boohawks every team has a nemesis we as a club overcame with a hero type performance by BURR. You win as a team and you lose as a team. I don't see the posts that are calling for twins heads on a platter, oh wait a minute those were the posts a few years ago. This club is arguably the best in the past 4-5 years and will be for the next 5-7 years. The cup will come give it a chance instant gratification is for video games and great food not a franchise that is working to sustain years of success in the best sport in the world....

NUFF SAID ;)


You've probably never played hockey and clearly don't know anything about coaching strategies, next 5-7 years? Try 2-3 years, Sedins don't have that much longer left in their prime and Kassian and Jensen are not going to replace their offense. Do you actually think AV is going to lead the team to a cup next year with his same bs strategies? Look at all the teams who fired their coach and how much better they're doing now, LA, Pits, St louis etc. I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but clearly, it's time for a change.

Edit: and I'm not saying we lost the cup because of AV, I'm saying that we won't win a cup if he sticks around, he's had 6 years and BARELY got past the 2nd round once. No one cares about a presidents trophy, ask the Kings.

Edited by TheGame., 22 May 2012 - 12:42 PM.

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#21 Snake Doctor

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:03 PM

AV needs to go, every team in the NHL knows the canucks game plan..... dump and chase and change unless your the first 2 lines.......drop pass on power play....etc


Get over it!
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#22 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:49 PM

I'm not sure you are all that close to the mark.

Do we go forward, all in for offense? Not if Lou is your goalie you say? I am guessing you are not old enough to have watched him play in Florida, or when he first arrived here? Are you aware he has one of the best career save %'s of any goalie, especially when peppered with work? Lou is a great goalie, go forward and score!

The Sedin's plus / minus has absolutely nothing do do with getting points on the power play.

And seriously, you have no clue if you think we have to get more size to make a defenceman more effective in the offensive end. That gets taken care of with speed, the ability to carry the puck, vision, a big shot (see Connauton, Kevin > hardest shot in the AHL this year under 200 lbs), the ability to read a play, when to jump in, passing ability...

Correct answers:

1) Go with the best goalie. It may still be Schneider but any team can take more chances when the goalie is better. Teams tend to play defensively when their line up dictates they can win more physical battles than talent ones. They play offensively when they can win more speed, skill and talent duels...
2) The Sedin's have a high plus rating because they rarely play in defensive situations; so we dont get scored on alot when they're on the ice. But to be fair, puck control is also a substantial factor as teams don't get the puck from them either.
3) We most certainly could use a big defender who clears the net, with either goalie. No argument there.
4) While Tanev himself is not an offensive defender in a true sense, he helps an offensive team more. He does not have the size to stand up players at the blue line, or joust in physical battles. In short, he does not create mistakes. He is relied on because he gets to the puck quickly, and makes passes to forwards up ice to create offensive opportunities. Pittsburgh would love him, he probably does not make the team in Nashville?

There is some credibility to your conversation about rebound control.

Good luck crafting your Canucks team!


I've been reading a lot of posts about what fans feel the Canucks need the most. I believe that the team needs to go back to the most basic need. Picking a direction. By picking a direction, I mean ; Do they go for more of a defensive minded look that relies more on boxing out players and keeping the front of the net clear and relying on opposition mistakes for offense? Or, do they go for the all forward offense, leaving the goalie open to more odd man rushes and quality scoring chances? In making a decision on this, I believe our goaltender moving forward can be decided.

There is no doubting that we possess two great goaltenders. The problem lies in the team thats put in front of them.

Roberto Luongo is a great first shot save goaltender who gives up few rebounds. His experience is also a plus. His positional play, however leaves something to be desired. He is prone to weak goals, most notably from behind the net. His side to side movement is slower and he often seems to give up on long, cross ice passes in front of the net. If Lou is our goaltender moving forward, I think defense should be the strategy and should be seeking defensemen that fill this need. Big defenders who concentrate more on our end than constantly jumping up in the play. They'll need to limit cross ice passes and allow Lou to concentrate on the shooter. These defensemen should also have a great pass out of our zone, leaving little chance to be intercepted, sometimes just choosing the boards instead of the long stretch passes. This should translate to fewer goals and more assists from defensemen as well as a higher save percentage out of our goaltending. It also means a lot of low scoring and, at times, down right boring games. We should be winning a lot of 2-1 and 3-2 games. If this route were chosen there would be a lot of changes to our team.
The Sedins, last year were +23 and +14 respectively. This is misleading, however, as most of there offense came from the powerplay. In the playoffs, however, they were 0s in the plus minus department. In fact the highest score in this department was Zach Kassian with +1. This shows a lack of defensive commitment. With Lou in net, defense should be priority. A lot less pinching and more backing off. The biggest problem that would be faced is changing the teams focus and mind set. Disipline would be paramount.

In Cory Schneider we get a young, athletic goaltender. He has great lateral movement and is positionally solid. He never gives up on the play. He is primed to be on a more offensive, high octane team. He can make big saves. The problem is; can he do it for 60 to 70 games plus playoffs? He's shown it for 30 but asking him to do it for 3/4 of a season could be a tall order. Right now, it seems the team is more prepared for this type of game and would require less of a change. A player like Chris Tanev would become more expendable in favor of a bigger more offensively minded defenseman. With more emphasis being placed on scoring goals, the workload increases for Schneider. As I said, it's a tall order, however I think Cory is ready. In 22 fewer games than Lou, his save percentage (.937) and GAA (1.96) were dynamite. In the playoffs he played 3 games, allowing 4 goals. His save percentage was .960 and he had a 1.31 GAA. He just out performed Lou. Unfortunately the team was unable to produce much offense and was eliminated. But if Schneids can be counted on, then Vancouver's offseason efforts should be spent trying to find that high point producer to put with Kesler (Zach Parise?). The key is in finding someone that can find chemistry with him.

Which ever way it goes, the team has to perform consistently and be able to raise the bar in the playoffs. Average won't get it done. They have to commit to a system and play that system 110% every night.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 22 May 2012 - 03:52 PM.


#23 CanuckFan1981

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:53 PM

I say we are best to keep on the road we are taking. We have had our best 2 seasons consecutively in all time. We are in the most successful 5 years of franchise history. I don't think now is the time to change what we do or how we play. More tools and tweeks is all that is needed. Its not like we are that far off. All we needed was 1 more win last year. This year is disappointing, but hats off to LA. I think they're on roids (hehe j/k... maybe).

#24 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:02 PM

Get over it!


Canucks won't make it past the 2nd round next season if AV is here, quote me on it.

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#25 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:17 PM

Nowhere near NUFF said.

We had a talented team, but it lacked a key talent which was exposed; a Norris calibre stud defender. The Duncan Kieth's, Chris Letang's & Doughty's of the world simply blow through neutral zone traps like L.A.'s and haul the puck up ice like the Paul Coffee's and Scott Niedermyers before them. On other teams, the Chris Prongers, Zdeno Chara's and Shea Webers simply molest you, manhandle you off the puck, then hold you on their hip and control the puck with their reach as again the bring it up under pressure. Then pass it, because lanes open up if a second forward comes to double team, and they have the talent to move it forward against double teams. We rely on the breakout pass to escaping forwards, it's beautiful when it works but gets shut down by big physical teams that trap.

We also got manhandled in the last 4 play off series we lost (Chicago, Chicago, Boston, L.A.). That was just as big a factor. We were not even remotely close to being able to move Byfuglien, or Dustin Penner in front of the net? Both these guys suddenly became Gods. Where is your memory of big fast L.A & Boston forwards hammering guys like Tanev and and Erhoff on the fore check before they could clear the puck? Hamhuis can handle it, but not our entire line up. It has to do with some serious size problems.

AV crafted pretty serious runs with the talent and physical abilities of the teams he has been handed. We do need some upgrades.

He's also had pretty much the most talented canucks team, and he's only made it past the 2nd round once in 6 years? With your logic he had 2 Art ross winners, a selky winner and 2 elite goalies and he still couldn't win a cup? He almost got eliminated for the 3rd time in the playoffs against the Hawks if it wasn't for Burrows.

Sorry, but, NUFF SAID


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 22 May 2012 - 04:44 PM.


#26 Nigerian

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:17 PM

OK let me get this straight arguably the best coach in Canucks history and you think he needs to go???? I am tired of hearing that AV needs to go... he has helped this club to the most success in its modern history. How many Presidents trophies? Art Ross winners? Selky winners? Come on get serious the Cup is within our reach for possibly the third season in a row and you want to let our coach go.....give me a break......

NUFF SAID

I'm positive with the amazing core that we have, that a plethora of other coaches would have had the same numbers, trophies, etc. Not saying to get rid of AV at all, I'm just implying that AV isn't literally on the ice making us win games.

#27 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:24 PM

Nowhere near NUFF said.

We had a talented team, but it lacked a key talent which was exposed; a Norris calibre stud defender. The Duncan Kieth's, Chris Letang's & Doughty's of the world simply blow through neutral zone traps like L.A.'s and haul the puck up ice like the Paul Coffee's and Scott Niedermyers before them. On other teams, the Chris Prongers, Zdeno Chara's and Shea Webers simply molest you, manhandle you off the puck, then hold you on their hip and control the puck with their reach as again the bring it up under pressure. Then pass it, because lanes open up if a second forward comes to double team, and they have the talent to move it forward against double teams. We rely on the breakout pass to escaping forwards, it's beautiful when it works but gets shut down by big physical teams that trap.

We also got manhandled in the last 4 play off series we lost (Chicago, Chicago, Boston, L.A.). That was just as big a factor. We were not even remotely close to being able to move Byfuglien, or Dustin Penner in front of the net? Both these guys suddenly became Gods. Where is your memory of big fast L.A & Boston forwards hammering guys like Tanev and and Erhoff on the fore check before they could clear the puck? Hamhuis can handle it, but not our entire line up. It has to do with some serious size problems.

AV crafted pretty serious runs with the talent and physical abilities of the teams he has been handed. We do need some upgrades.


Agreed, but i still think we need a new voice, I know if I had the same coach for 6 years a change would definately be good. I don't know what's wrong with Gillis but he better pick up some more size and grit this offseason, relying on Kassian to do that isn't going to work.

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Credit to Parise11


#28 Edlerberry

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:30 PM

If AV takes a more hands-on approach and actually COACHES during games, I would say extend him next year.

Having a coach who rarely actually talks to players is kinda dumb.

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If we don't even dump one veteran, I'll stop posting on CDC until October 7th. It's that disappointing. - Tom Sestito, June 27th.





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