canuck2xtreme Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 other question since jan. 1st we are allowed to re-sign 1 player who becomes a free agent after this season. does it make sence to re-sign a player atm, even we dont know how the salary and a possibly paycut looks like after a successfull cba talk ? I think we'll put extension talks on hold until after a new CBA is introduced and we get a feel for the landscape we'll be working in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2xtreme Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Also, I've been working on an idea where the executive group (assuming they're all still on board that is lol) is assigned into smaller groups involving contract negotiation etc. that might make the process a little smoother and more consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombastik der Teutone Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I think we'll put extension talks on hold until after a new CBA is introduced and we get a feel for the landscape we'll be working in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Good Morning, its update time at the WJC's Finnland finnished off their tournament with a superb show of force landing Joel Armia and Mike Granlund at the top of the individual scoring race for the tournament with 12 points a piece...for now, as Canada's Ryan Nugent-Hopkins has a game left to go and is sitting tied for second with another Finn player Teuvo Teravainen. (hands down the more traditional Finnish last name on the team!) Here is our pool updates, with one night to go, and for one last time the majority of our players on the ice! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am6MYpMRLMTvdFZPU0s0MkRPZENjYWdxYm96UWxnZGc The Phaneuf Train leads the way with 77 points Champions Of Nothing alone in second with 70 points Cal and Gary's Phlegm's coming in at 69 points Primal Optimist with 67 points Strombone1 and Arby_18 share fifth with 66 points Our Time to Shine at 65 points The Ratiocinator has 64 points C2X and Wilb both have 60 points TheGermanCanuck sits at 58 points Tony Romo is at 50 points Winterhawks rounds out the tourny at 48 points It is worth mentioning that Winterhawks, while in last place currently, is the only team with every skater on the ice in tonight's last day of action. The Ratiocinator and Arby_18 have all but one player each tonight. Good luck to everyone and play safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 yikes, I no longer have faith in Team Canada's coach. He has replaced Subban with Binnington for the bronze medal game. I wouldn't replace the guy at all, but if you have to, say due to injury, you go with the kid who is eligible next year so he gets the experience, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strombone1 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Looks like a tight race for 2nd all the way down to 7th. But most importantly I'm stoked about having 3 of the highest point earners on my junior team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 This whole article bears reading, here is the link..and i am copying what I find to be thebest summary so far in the media of where things stand in the lockout> http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/01/bitterness-grows-during-nhl-labour-waiting-game.html If you believe Fehr's goal was to make owners realize that continuous lockouts would come with a severe price, he has achieved that. What is one more week going to prove? It's OK for the NHL and NHLPA to feel passionately about their positions. There is nothing wrong about feeling strongly about something you believe in. But look where we are now. Cap: League wants it to be $60 million next year, and Commissioner Bettman is trying keep it low to protect the floor from being too far from the ceiling. The players want $65 million for freer movement. Contract length: League wants six years (other team's free agent) or seven (your own). Players want eight overall. Pensions: Players are determined to get what was previously agreed to. And they should. CBA length: Both accept 10 years. League wants opt-out after eight, as long as intention to do so is after Year 6. And the CBA ends June 30. Players want opt-out after seven, with the CBA ending September 15. Variance: League has offered a 30 per cent difference per season, but also that no season in any multi-year deal can be more than 60 percent lower than the highest-salaried one. Buyouts: There will be two compliance buyouts per team before next season, although both will count against the players' share of Hockey Related Revenue. It can get worse I know how this works. You have to get to a deadline before this gets done, and that deadline is at the end of next week. But what is either side really accomplishing by waiting another seven days? Is there something the two sides are so far apart on that this CBA shouldn't get done? Sorry, but I just don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 In skimming the issues, I think the league should give in on the 65 cap next year: its 150m total and 30 owner groups to defray it...over a ten year deal...they are argueing over the price of Rory Fitzpatrick per team per year...after making HUGE concessions from the players to get down to 50/50. Throw the players a bone and make next years cap 65 and the one after that 50/50. (*huge chance the revenues for next full year are equal to or higher than 3.5b anyways, which makes each teams cap 58 or 59 million the next year, escrow would cover the 5 to 7 million shortfall and then as every other year, the cap will go up based on rising HRR year over year....for me its just good business to cushion the fall to 50 not for players pockets but for owners and GM's of good teams sake. Contract length: if you give teams an advantage in signing their own player your working against parity: go 7 for all players max length and hope the players will come down a year from 8 since you ccaved on the 65 million for next season's cap. Pension: yes..at the least the previous pension deal should stand...i think more pension money should go to career ending injuries of players under age 32, but neither side seems to care about short term plugs...dunno why..its the unions job to care about their health in contributing to the game. They agree on ten years...who cares if its june or september that it expires and who cares when an opt out might be...not me. Sign it, either side. It can't be a deal breaker or your a complete waste of skin. Variance is generous, take it. Buyouts are very friendly to GM's, owners still have to pay a full paycheck to these guys who will no longer be playing for them so it is not a very nice thing for owners at all...i think the least the players side can do is accept it as counting against HRR..it doesn't take from the cap at all so its a fair deal. The idea of 'future bucks not landing in my pocket' is moot to me, i don't care. Play the game you millionaire stick handling bum. and there you have it...i have solved the lock out in ten minutes. Now, GO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2xtreme Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 In skimming the issues, I think the league should give in on the 65 cap next year: its 150m total and 30 owner groups to defray it...over a ten year deal...they are argueing over the price of Rory Fitzpatrick per team per year...after making HUGE concessions from the players to get down to 50/50. Throw the players a bone and make next years cap 65 and the one after that 50/50. (*huge chance the revenues for next full year are equal to or higher than 3.5b anyways, which makes each teams cap 58 or 59 million the next year, escrow would cover the 5 to 7 million shortfall and then as every other year, the cap will go up based on rising HRR year over year....for me its just good business to cushion the fall to 50 not for players pockets but for owners and GM's of good teams sake. Agreed, except the part where HRR rises. The league killed a lot of their momentum, drove away some casual fans and really p/o'd some of the hardcore fans. Last time we came back in droves and the strong Canadian dollar helped drive HRR up. The league won't be so lucky this time. This time, they're going to feel the effects. How drastic, I don't know. But it will at least slow the growth noticably, if not stall/regress. Nonetheless, the players have given up more than enough already and escrow is going to even things out anyways, so really, I don't see the owners problem in making the year 2 cap $65 million. Contract length: if you give teams an advantage in signing their own player your working against parity: go 7 for all players max length and hope the players will come down a year from 8 since you ccaved on the 65 million for next season's cap. The owners want the advantage for teams re-signing their own player to help control player salaries. Parity isn't and never really was a big concern of theirs. But fans will like that their team might have a better shot at retaining homegrown talent, so go 8 years if it's your own player, 7 years max for UFAs. That really should be close enough for the union to get on board, as they offered 8 years across the board earlier. If they can't compromise on an 8/7 contract term limit, then we're in a lot more trouble than we realized and might as well pack it all in right now. Pension: yes..at the least the previous pension deal should stand...i think more pension money should go to career ending injuries of players under age 32, but neither side seems to care about short term plugs...dunno why..its the unions job to care about their health in contributing to the game. Here's one where I don't agree with the players at all. Everyone else's company pensions are predominantly paid for by the employees, and these guys most definitely make enough to max out their pensions no problem. The system has already been adjusted in negotiations in the players favour. They need to stop insisting the league fund more of it. They agree on ten years...who cares if its june or september that it expires and who cares when an opt out might be...not me. Sign it, either side. It can't be a deal breaker or your a complete waste of skin. The owners want June to have the CBA expire before the free agency period, thus saving them a few bucks should this mess be repeated in 7-10 years, the players want Sept. 15th in order to get free agency in before the clock strikes midnight. That is all. I didn't even know this was being discussed until yesterday. I say flip a coin and move on. If the NHL and NHLPA have any sense, they'll get moving on a new CBA before it expires next time and have a deal done before this one expires anyways, so we can just play the damn game instead of watching lawyers walk in and out of hotels while plugs like Aaron Ward try to explain why the commissioners choice of tie that day means the league is hardballing. Clearly if he was in a dealmaking mood, he wouldn't have gone with the bold colours. When he breaks out the Snoopy tie, we'll be making progress. Shut up Aaron.... Variance is generous, take it. Yup. Buyouts are very friendly to GM's, owners still have to pay a full paycheck to these guys who will no longer be playing for them so it is not a very nice thing for owners at all...i think the least the players side can do is accept it as counting against HRR..it doesn't take from the cap at all so its a fair deal. The idea of 'future bucks not landing in my pocket' is moot to me, i don't care. Play the game you millionaire stick handling bum. The problem is that it effects the 50% that the players are already dropping to immediately, and thus effects how much of their own salaries they will get. The league might as well take it straight out of the make whole money. It may not take from the immediate salary cap, but if it counts against the players 50%, then the players will be giving back more of their salaries in escrow. I wouldn't go so far as to say it helps the owners, but it definitely hits the players in another area where they are already making massive concessions. Split it down the middle, 50% of buyout counts against HRR, the other 50% outside the system. 50-50, like everything else, and call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I am with you on everything and I think they could split the buyout counting against HRR at 50/50 and each side would get a small 'win' from that. Its such a small scale issue, i think, over a ten year deal that unless they expect the deal to blow up at the first available opt out, either side could cave on this issue... ..if the owners expect the players to blow it up in year 7 or 8, whichever is agreed to...then i can see the owners sticking their guns here. Perhaps this the one the players have to give up in order to get 65million cap for season 2? TOugh stuff but nothing that two adults shouldnt'be able to work out in an hour..i am really mad at Bettman and Fehr directly...they are so close that they can smell it..and yet neither one will take a bite for fear of making it look like they took the bait. for the record: players would be morons in 7 or 8 years to back out of the deal, as even at 50/50 split in the year 2020 they will be splitting a huge amount of HRR. I predict boldly: and so I predict at least an 80million dollar cap in the year 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Agreed, except the part where HRR rises. The league killed a lot of their momentum, drove away some casual fans and really p/o'd some of the hardcore fans. Last time we came back in droves and the strong Canadian dollar helped drive HRR up. The league won't be so lucky this time. This time, they're going to feel the effects. How drastic, I don't know. But it will at least slow the growth noticably, if not stall/regress. Nonetheless, the players have given up more than enough already and escrow is going to even things out anyways, so really, I don't see the owners problem in making the year 2 cap $65 million. The owners want the advantage for teams re-signing their own player to help control player salaries. Parity isn't and never really was a big concern of theirs. But fans will like that their team might have a better shot at retaining homegrown talent, so go 8 years if it's your own player, 7 years max for UFAs. That really should be close enough for the union to get on board, as they offered 8 years across the board earlier. If they can't compromise on an 8/7 contract term limit, then we're in a lot more trouble than we realized and might as well pack it all in right now. Here's one where I don't agree with the players at all. Everyone else's company pensions are predominantly paid for by the employees, and these guys most definitely make enough to max out their pensions no problem. The system has already been adjusted in negotiations in the players favour. They need to stop insisting the league fund more of it. The owners want June to have the CBA expire before the free agency period, thus saving them a few bucks should this mess be repeated in 7-10 years, the players want Sept. 15th in order to get free agency in before the clock strikes midnight. That is all. I didn't even know this was being discussed until yesterday. I say flip a coin and move on. If the NHL and NHLPA have any sense, they'll get moving on a new CBA before it expires next time and have a deal done before this one expires anyways, so we can just play the damn game instead of watching lawyers walk in and out of hotels while plugs like Aaron Ward try to explain why the commissioners choice of tie that day means the league is hardballing. Clearly if he was in a dealmaking mood, he wouldn't have gone with the bold colours. When he breaks out the Snoopy tie, we'll be making progress. Shut up Aaron.... Yup. The problem is that it effects the 50% that the players are already dropping to immediately, and thus effects how much of their own salaries they will get. The league might as well take it straight out of the make whole money. It may not take from the immediate salary cap, but if it counts against the players 50%, then the players will be giving back more of their salaries in escrow. I wouldn't go so far as to say it helps the owners, but it definitely hits the players in another area where they are already making massive concessions. Split it down the middle, 50% of buyout counts against HRR, the other 50% outside the system. 50-50, like everything else, and call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2xtreme Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Next summer, I will go head to head as commissioner against Primal as head of the CDCGMA in order to hammer out a new collective agreement. Hopefully a lockout can be avoided, as we owe it to our fans to not miss any time for the 2013-14 season. (even if we did this, I'd expect a deal done within an hour... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeak Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I still remain hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I would be a horrible negotiator for the players...once you make 50 years of minimum wage in a single season: my sympathy factor is in the negatives. I would like to see guys who get hurt early in their careers have million dollar pensions I would like to see guys who never earn more than 5m in their entire NHL time get something guaranteed for life... I wouldn't care about croxby's extra millions or who gets an extra 8th year on their contract for millions... in fact i would do more harm than good. EDIT: but we would be hungover right now from watching the winter classic and en route to the allstar game, i guarantee that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2xtreme Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 I would be a horrible negotiator for the players...once you make 50 years of minimum wage in a single season: my sympathy factor is in the negatives. I would like to see guys who get hurt early in their careers have million dollar pensions I would like to see guys who never earn more than 5m in their entire NHL time get something guaranteed for life... I wouldn't care about croxby's extra millions or who gets an extra 8th year on their contract for millions... in fact i would do more harm than good. EDIT: but we would be hungover right now from watching the winter classic and en route to the allstar game, i guarantee that! Yeah you'd be a bad negotiator for the players. If those were the terms I'd be the PA and you'd be the NHL. But I bet you wouldn't be half bad for the other GMs in the CDCGML. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2xtreme Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 With the world juniors winding down, I'll resume the sim on Sunday night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombastik der Teutone Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 With the world juniors winding down, I'll resume the sim on Sunday night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 World Junior Mini Game final Standings, and May I be the first to congratulate The Phaneuf Train on a superb team almost for the entire duration of the WJC. Well done sir. Now onto the final standings: *note: by virtue of a four way tie, the tie breaking procedures will determine silver and bronze, fourth and fifth place! Predict Gold/silver/bronze winners was tie breaker one and gold medal game combined score was number two if there was still a tie. No one predicted any exact medal winners, however Arby and Cal&Gary both had two of the top three teams generally selected. The second tie breaker of guessing the combined score haw Cal&Gary's closer with 5. Congrats on winning silver Cal & Gary's Phlegm's! Bronze will go to Arby_18! GOLD MEDAL WINNER: The Phaneuf Train SILVER MEDAL WINNER: Cal & Garys Phlegm's BRONZE MEDAL WINNER: Arby_18 Fourth place: The Ratiocinator Fifth place: Champions Of Nothing Sixth Place: Strombone1 Seventh Place: Primal Optimist Eighth Place: Our Time To Shine Ninth Place: Wilb Tenth Place: Canuck2xtreme Eleventh Place: The German Canuck Twelth Place: Winterhawks Thirteenth Place: Tony Romo Full standings: 85 points: The Phaneuf Train 77 points: Cal and Gary's Phlegm's ( Rus/Can/Swe 5) 77 points: Arby_18 (Rus/Can/USA 7) 77 points: The Ratiocinator. (Can/Rus/Fin 7) 77 points: Champions Of Nothing (Can/Rus/Finn9) 75 points: Strombone1 (Can/Rus/USA 5) 75 points: Primal Optimist (Can/Finn/Rus 10) 73 points: Our Time To Shine 71 points: Wilb 69 points: Canuck2xtreme 66 points: The German Canuck 60 points: Winterhawks 58 points: Tony Romo See you all next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombastik der Teutone Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 World Junior Mini Game final Standings, and May I be the first to congratulate The Phaneuf Train on a superb team almost for the entire duration of the WJC. Well done sir. Now onto the final standings: *note: by virtue of a four way tie, the tie breaking procedures will determine silver and bronze, fourth and fifth place! Predict Gold/silver/bronze winners was tie breaker one and gold medal game combined score was number two if there was still a tie. No one predicted any exact medal winners, however Arby and Cal&Gary both had two of the top three teams generally selected. The second tie breaker of guessing the combined score haw Cal&Gary's closer with 5. Congrats on winning silver Cal & Gary's Phlegm's! Bronze will go to Arby_18! GOLD MEDAL WINNER: The Phaneuf Train SILVER MEDAL WINNER: Cal & Garys Phlegm's BRONZE MEDAL WINNER: Arby_18 Fourth place: The Ratiocinator Fifth place: Champions Of Nothing Sixth Place: Strombone1 Seventh Place: Primal Optimist Eighth Place: Our Time To Shine Ninth Place: Wilb Tenth Place: Canuck2xtreme Eleventh Place: The German Canuck Twelth Place: Winterhawks Thirteenth Place: Tony Romo Full standings: 85 points: The Phaneuf Train 77 points: Cal and Gary's Phlegm's ( Rus/Can/Swe 5) 77 points: Arby_18 (Rus/Can/USA 7) 77 points: The Ratiocinator. (Can/Rus/Fin 7) 77 points: Champions Of Nothing (Can/Rus/Finn9) 75 points: Strombone1 (Can/Rus/USA 5) 75 points: Primal Optimist (Can/Finn/Rus 10) 73 points: Our Time To Shine 71 points: Wilb 69 points: Canuck2xtreme 66 points: The German Canuck 60 points: Winterhawks 58 points: Tony Romo See you all next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Phaneuf Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Awesome! T'was a great tourny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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