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A Shooting that Covers all the Bases - Well Almost all


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#1 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:06 PM

Here is a thread where all the issues inherent in the gun control debate can be discussed.

On Tuesday January 22, 2013 a man entered a courtroom in Cebu city, Philippines and shot to death his neighbour with whom he was engaged in an ongoing dispute, killing a lawyer and wounding another government prosecutor. He was then killed by police in a gun battle or may have committed suicide after being wounded as reports are unclear.

He was in court to face illegal possession of firearms and other charges in central Cebu City, where he lived, when he pulled out a gun. He then shot and killed a lawyer, Giovanni Achas, and Dr. Reynold Rafols, who had filed a case against him, reports said.

Authorities say he later shot and seriously wounded an assistant prosecutor in a courthouse stairway, freelance journalist Simone Orendain reported from the Philippines.

"Pope, who was described as a retired journalist, was facing charges of illegal possession of firearms," Orendain reported for CBC News. "In May 2011, his neighbour, the surgeon Dr. Reynold Rafols, told local media he had filed charges of 'malicious mischief' against Pope."

Cebu City police confirmed that Pope had a previous charge of "malicious mischief".


There are conflicting reports of how he died:

After shooting the prosecutor, it is unclear how Pope was killed.

Police told the Associated Press that Pope was shot and killed by police. But other reports say Pope killed himself after being wounded by responding officers.

Cebu's Sun Star newspaper, citing the National Bureau of Investigation in the Visayas region of the Philippines, reports that two officers shot Pope in the leg before the Canadian shot himself in the head.

Cebu City police told CBC News that Pope had a gunshot wound in the temple, but no one witnessed him shooting himself. Police would not confirm reports that officers shot Pope in the leg.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...l?autoplay=true

He was carrying two weapons (neither of which was an AR-15 or a variant so no joy there) but he did have two illegal handguns and was before the courts on weapons charges as well as threats with a weapon. He claimed previously to need the firearms for self-defence and against some sort of conspiracy against him.



On Tuesday, Pope was carrying two firearms — a .357 revolver that he used to shoot the three, and another .45 pistol that police later seized from his bag, the Philippine Star reported.

Cebu City police said it was standard policy to search people when entering the courthouse and couldn't confirm how Pope brought a gun into the courtroom.
..
Local media mentioned Pope in 2011, when he was held by police on charges of illegal possession of firearms. The same physician who was killed in Tuesday's shooting accused Pope, his neighbour, of brandishing a weapon and threatening him and other residents in their condominium complex.

Pope was arrested and charged after showing up at Rafols's clinic with a handgun.

Pope had been quoted as saying at the time that the pistol he was carrying was for self-defence.

"I wanted to be prepared," Pope said to ABS-CBN News in the Philippines last year. "This guy, Rafols, once came to my apartment at 2 o'clock in the morning with two armed police officers and an armed bodyguard with their guns out and swung a baseball bat inches from my face."


The man was identified by Philippine authorities as 63-year-old John Pope, born in St. Cloud, Minn. who was on a Canadian passport and living in the Philippines with his Filipino wife and children.

He had worked as a journalist for the Prince George Citizen in British Columbia abck in the late 1970's and 1980's. According to reports of some former co-workers at the newspaper he was little off and had a fascination with guns.

Former colleagues at the Citizen had starkly different memories of Pope -- some said he was a good friend and very loyal, while others said he was troubled and unhappy.

"It was black or white, right or wrong with him, there was no middle ground," photographer Brock Gable recalled. "You were either his friend or you didn't exist."

Former Citizen features editor Doug Martin remembered Pope as a big, physical man who would work out at the boxing club, but he also said Pope had a dark side.

"He was a very unhappy guy, a troubled guy," Martin said. "He was kind of a crazy man."

One night Martin said he got a phone call from Pope, who sounded agitated.

"He said, 'I'll come to your house, it's a matter of life or death,' " Martin recalled. "That didn't sound like a good idea to me, I didn't want him around my house."

Martin agreed to meet with Pope on the street and said the reporter had a wild look in his eyes.

"He's all upset and he said, 'I've got to kill Doug Weller, a photographer,' " Martin said. "I managed to talk him out of it."
...
Other staff members from the era remember Pope being a bit weird, with one describing him as a bit of a gun nut who was teased by fellow reporters over his love of firearms.

(Reporter Bernice) Trick said he was a bit odd, but not any more so than the other colourful personalities in the business.

"He wouldn't be someone you would fear," she said.

Martin said he and some other former colleagues felt differently.

"He seemed like a prime candidate to pull out a gun and shoot us all," Martin said.

"We laughed about it. Maybe we shouldn't have."

http://www.theprovin...7394/story.html

CBC reports that Pope claimed that the court case against him was result of a conspiracy cooked up by his neighbour, a doctor and that he was writing an expose detailing his claims that he was sending around to various media.



Pope also wrote an unpublished manuscript titled "Justice Denied," and had been sending parts of it to local newspapers and television stations for some time, Cebu Daily News editor in chief Eileen Mangubat told CBC News.

She added that Pope had been documenting his several run-ins with the law.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...l?autoplay=true

The incident has led to an increased call for stricter gun control in the Philippines.

See what I mean about covering the bases with this this one.
  • Takes place in a foreign country (so 'Murican gun apologists can say "See it happens everywhere)
  • Crazy guy
  • Past evidence of a troubled person
  • Conspiracy claimed
  • Gun loon
  • American
  • Canadian
  • Journalist
  • Mass shooting
  • Conflicting media reports
  • Illegal weapons
  • Claimed weapons needed for self-defence
  • "Gubmint" taking away firearms
  • Shooting in a government building
  • Dead complainant bringing legal action against said crazy guy
  • Dead doctor
  • Dead lawyer and another seriously wounded (no cheering please)
  • Shot by cops and/or committed suicide
  • Calls for stricter gun control
Seriously this one has it all, except for the use of an "assault weapon" semi-automatic military feature rifle.

No further gun threads needed, amirite???

Edited by Wetcoaster, 23 January 2013 - 12:13 PM.

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#2 elvis15

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:53 PM

Well, technically, we already have too many of them where we could have just added this to.
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#3 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:15 PM

Well, technically, we already have too many of them where we could have just added this to.

Too many of them raise a limited number of issues. This is like a basic primer.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#4 Aladeen

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:56 PM

Handguns and Assult rifles were made for only one purpose and that is to kill people. I think the right way to go is if the US government would take the first step and start to change over military and police weapons for more non-lethal devices such as stun guns etc. People will be more willing to listen if you practice what you preach.

That being said I feel that for certain people firearms are very neccessary think of the guy in alone in the wilderness. But most people dont live alone in the wild.
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#5 DarthNinja

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:04 PM

Handguns and Assult rifles were made for only one purpose and that is to kill people. I think the right way to go is if the US government would take the first step and start to change over military and police weapons for more non-lethal devices such as stun guns etc. People will be more willing to listen if you practice what you preach.

That being said I feel that for certain people firearms are very neccessary think of the guy in alone in the wilderness. But most people dont live alone in the wild.


The whole point of the assault rifles within the context of the 2nd amendment is for the people to defend themselves and their nation against the tyranny of government. Banning guns is akin to allowing tyrants to leave the people defenseless against their tyranny.

In fact, this is precisely why they want to take guns away from people.
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"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

rsz_theylive.jpg 11477626583_2368927097.jpg  7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#6 Wetcoaster

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

The whole point of the assault rifles within the context of the 2nd amendment is for the people to defend themselves and their nation against the tyranny of government. Banning guns is akin to allowing tyrants to leave the people defenseless against their tyranny.

In fact, this is precisely why they want to take guns away from people.

Colin Powell disagrees.

“The Second Amendment was written to protect the people from the government, but the reality is the government isn’t coming after you and the Second Amendment is intact."
http://tv.msnbc.com/...tions-you-know/
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#7 literaphile

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:16 AM

The whole point of the assault rifles within the context of the 2nd amendment is for the people to defend themselves and their nation against the tyranny of government. Banning guns is akin to allowing tyrants to leave the people defenseless against their tyranny.

In fact, this is precisely why they want to take guns away from people.


Only in America are first-world citizens so paranoid that they must be armed to the teeth to prevent government tyranny. This attitude must be the laughing stock of the western world.
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#8 Wetcoaster

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:33 AM

Only in America are first-world citizens so paranoid that they must be armed to the teeth to prevent government tyranny. This attitude must be the laughing stock of the western world.

It might be funny... if it were not so sad.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#9 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:41 AM

The whole point of the assault rifles within the context of the 2nd amendment is for the people to defend themselves and their nation against the tyranny of government. Banning guns is akin to allowing tyrants to leave the people defenseless against their tyranny.

In fact, this is precisely why they want to take guns away from people.


Your (and that of those who also buy into this sort of drivel) world must be a scary little place what with always looking over your shoulder due to self-manufactured delusions of tyranny and THE MAN..Not to mention the repetitive viewings of conspiracy theory vids from 9/11 to the lack of Twinkies in the nearest bodega......da man don't want us to have da Twinkie no moah.......... such a tyrannical country Americans live in........ *

(*sarcasm included, wouldn't want anyone confused because it's not dumbed down enough)



Only in America are first-world citizens so paranoid that they must be armed to the teeth to prevent government tyranny. This attitude must be the laughing stock of the western world.


Like Wet said, it might be funny if it weren't so sad. :(

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 24 January 2013 - 05:54 PM.

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"Sursumredditio" non usquam in hac mea loquantur!



Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.....



#10 Wetcoaster

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:00 PM

Your (and those who also buy into this sort of drivel) world must be a scary little place what with always looking over your shoulder due to self-manufactured delusions of tyranny and THE MAN..Not to mention the repetitive viewings of conspiracy theory vids from 9/11 to the lack of Twinkies in the nearest bodega......da man don't want us to have da Twinkie no moah.......... such a tyrannical country Americans live in........ *

(*sarcasm included, wouldn't want anyone confused because it's not dumbed down enough)

Like Wet said, it might be funny if it weren't so sad. :(

The creed of the paranoid 'Murican.

You can have my Twinkie when you pry it from my cold, dead, chubby hand.

Give me a Twinkie or and give me death!!!
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#11 ThaBestPlaceOnEarth

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:02 PM

The NRA and gun owners generally have done a terrible job of preventing tyranny and ensuring freedoms. The U.S. Government has grown exponentially in the last hundred years, arrogating to itself more and more powers, bringing more and more sectors under its control. Where has the NRA been on that? They don't care because they are just an industry lobby group, and their only purpose is to ensure that guns keep flying off the shelves of America. They don't care about freedom, they care about dollars. All in all, that's probably a good thing. If the NRA and these other crazies are really the last bastion of freedom America is hooped.
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Ceterum censeo Chicaginem delendam esse


#12 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:03 PM

The creed of the paranoid 'Murican.

You can have my Twinkie when you pry it from my cold, dead, chubby hand.

Give me a Twinkie or and give me death!!!


Posted Image

That about sums it up!
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"Sursumredditio" non usquam in hac mea loquantur!



Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.....



#13 DarthNinja

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:42 PM

Colin Powell disagrees.

“The Second Amendment was written to protect the people from the government, but the reality is the government isn’t coming after you and the Second Amendment is intact."
http://tv.msnbc.com/...tions-you-know/


That's ok because I disagree with Colin Powell about Iraq's WMD program.

The difference between him and I is that I am not the one who lied to the entire world in presenting fabricated and contrived information in order to launch a military assault that would be responsible for countless innocent deaths.
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"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

rsz_theylive.jpg 11477626583_2368927097.jpg  7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#14 DarthNinja

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

Your (and that of those who also buy into this sort of drivel) world must be a scary little place what with always looking over your shoulder due to self-manufactured delusions of tyranny and THE MAN..Not to mention the repetitive viewings of conspiracy theory vids from 9/11 to the lack of Twinkies in the nearest bodega......da man don't want us to have da Twinkie no moah.......... such a tyrannical country Americans live in........ *

(*sarcasm included, wouldn't want anyone confused because it's not dumbed down enough)


Let me know if/when you are ready to have a rational and intelligent discussion. I'll be around.
  • 1

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

rsz_theylive.jpg 11477626583_2368927097.jpg  7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)





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